Parents asked to be warned when sex ed, etc taught

[Deleted]

www.thestar.com/news/gta/education/article/1254611--stock-letter-asks-school-to-warn-when-sensitive-subjects-arise

A number of conservative Christian and Muslim parents — unusual political bedfellows — suddenly are asking schools across the GTA to notify them when their child’s class will discuss topics ranging from homosexuality and birth control to wizardry, evolution and “environmental worship,” so they can withhold their child from classes that contradict their religious beliefs.

They are giving schools the same five-page “Traditional Values Letter” used by a Greek Orthodox father who has sued the Hamilton school board for refusing to warn him when his children’s teachers plan to talk about family, marriage or human sexuality. Hamilton dentist Dr. Steve Tourloukis said Monday he only wants those issues taught to his Grade 1 daughter and Grade 4 son “from a Christian perspective.”

“I’m not an extremist, but I must ensure that my children abstain from certain activities that may include lessons which promote views contrary to our faith,” said Tourloukis, who is supported by a group called the Parental Rights in Education Defense Fund. “We know other denominations like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Muslims are excused for certain activities. Does our being Christian disqualify us from equitable treatment?”

Just days after Ontario’s new school anti-bullying law, Bill 13, took effect — promoting acceptance of all types of diversity — some parents of conservative Christian and Muslim backgrounds began presenting letters to public elementary schools in Toronto, Peel, York and Durham regions asking to be notified before their children’s class discusses a topic on a list the parent has checked off.

Word of the letters, while few in number, has set off alarms across a province-wide network of school equity officers. Its founder, Chris D’souza, warned that “any attack on Ontario’s move forward to an inclusive school system is a concern.”

As well as being notified about lessons on sex education, sexual orientation and evolution, the form letter, available on some Christian and Muslim parent websites, also lets parents ask for a warning if a teacher plans to “place environmental concerns above the value of our Muslim (or Christian) principles and human life.”

“We do agree with many of the goals of conservation, however these principles are often presented from a humanistic world view (for the benefit of man) or a naturalistic world view (deifying the earth) which is in conflict with our teachings,” notes the letter. “Conservation would be more successful for our children if connected to their understanding of being respectful of their Creator’s creation.”

Government sources say Ontario parents can request their child be excused only from certain portions of sex education.

The letter was penned by PEACE (Public Education Advocates for Christian Equity) Hamilton, a Christian parent group led by Phil Lees, also head of Ontario’s Family Coalition Party. PEACE Hamilton is helping to raise an estimated $65,000 for Tourloukis’ lawsuit, said Lees, and has posted a blank copy of the Traditional Values Letter for parents to download from its website. Parents simply insert the name of their faith, into the same letter.

“If we’re really a public education system, we need to be pluralistic and embrace values that go beyond the humanistic approach of Ontario schools that’s based on the belief there is no spiritual being,” said Lees. The former teacher has visited several Muslim parent groups to offer tips on how to try to sidestep school equity policy, including the Seerah School group in Toronto’s largely Muslim Thorncliffe Park neighbourhood.

“Muslim parents are very serious about their children, and a majority of them want to live a pious life,” noted Seerah founder Jawed Anwar, who said he believes at least 100 parents have given the letter to schools. “Bill 13 is a punch in their face.”

While school boards ponder how to respond, Ontario’s minister of education says the inclusive approach of Ontario’s school system is here to stay.

“These competing rights can be complex issues, but one reason educators from around the world study our system is because our schools are safe places for everyone,” Laurel Broten said.

“A little person can draw a picture of her two moms or two dads, for example, and feel safe and accepted. That’s what happens in classes across Ontario and that’s what should happen.

[Deleted]

I think I disagree with this. You send your kid to a public school, and I feel as though at some point you have to accept things may be taught you disagree with. It is IMPOSSIBLE to accommodate all religious beliefs in a public school setting.

[Deleted]

I guess this is new in old Canadaland or something but they were doing this when I was a child so . . .

[Deleted]

They've been doing this forever here.

We warn parents at our school, but more so they can continue the conversation at home if they so choose.

[eclaires]

Yeah, I want to be warned, mostly so I can be prepared to continue the conversation or answer more questions.

We had to have permission slips for sex ed at our Catholic school. We started sex ed in 4th grade.

[Deleted]

Ah, I think you guys are slightly confused as to why this was enacted. It had less to do with sex-ed, MORE to do with including homosexuality. Bill C-13 was an anti-bullying law that was enacted; and part of it had to do with accepting gay-straight alliances in school. The Catholic school board (publicly funded) didn't want to have to allow gay-straight alliances, but the Premier of Ontario said too bad, so sad.

Parents are notified when sex-ed starts. They can opt out of SOME of it.

[Deleted]

Here is an article about the original bill:

cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/06/05/19839386.html

[smock]

Wizardry?!?

[basilosaurus]

I'm opposed to allowing kids to opt out of education. It's not the school's job to protect your kid's ignorance. If you think being gay is wrong, teach them so at home. If you don't want them to learn about condoms? Too bad.

[Deleted]

I don't think parents should opt out but I don't know how you stop them. I mean, if a parent was morally opposed to the quadratic formula, they could keep their kid home for a week. Thats their choice. The kid will fail that test, but we can't really stop them.

[eclaires]

Catholic schools have to follow the public schooling rules like that?

I don't think private schools have to follow all of the state/federal guidelines here... just some of them and even then, maybe not? I'm trying to remember.

[Deleted]

eclaires: It varies by state.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 20:01:57 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Catholic schools have to follow the public schooling rules like that?

I don't think private schools have to follow all of the state/federal guidelines here... just some of them and even then, maybe not? I'm trying to remember.

Rugbywife can hopefully see this thread and chime in - BUT I think because the Catholic schools are still run by the province, with taxpayer $$ (as the public is) they still have to follow certain guidelines set out by the province.

One of them being that they allow gay-straight alliances. Basically, to NOT allow them was going against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, I believe. Although one might be able to make the argument that being forced to allow them does too. Tricky call.

I'm with Sibil - you send you kid to a public school, you accept they will be taught things you disagree with. I mean, where do you draw the line?

[basilosaurus]

Well, true, irish. Actually, in Missouri, they now have legal protections for opting out of the quadratic formula, although I have yet to hear about people objecting to it they way they object to set theory.

So I guess I should say I don't think there should be a formal opt out process.

[Deleted]

Because we totally want people to homeschool their kids? Yeah, that's what happens.

[Deleted]

I agree. There should be no formal opt out process.

[rugbywife]

Some differences here: Catholic schools are public school in Ontario. We have 4 publicly funded school systems: English Public, French Public, English Catholic, French Catholic. All publicly funded, all free of charge.

This document is a huge are in my school and school area...we have a huge muslim population. We have received it at my school and there are two students in my class who will not be doing music this year (this isn't new, I have had this situation before). The complication lies in that we must still supervise them (but we are not required to provide them with alternative learning).

The biggest issue is that the Human Rights Charter supercedes the Ontario Education Act and as a result no child can be forced to be taught concepts that go against their faith. That being said the list of things in the letter is incredible. Today I accidentally taught an art lesson that involved listening to 4 short clips of music (15 second each) and I forgot about the two kids who don't take music (I don't actually teach them music). I told my principal at the end of the day in case he gets a call from their dad tomorrow. He said it would be fine but it is still frustrating.

This goes way beyond sex ed, it works into evolution education, environmental education, anything involving witchcraft/wizards/halloween. Apparently our school board is looking into what the process will be for teachers (other than parents can have their kids sit out of music, dance and health ed - I am talking about for day to day teaching).

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 20:08:09 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Because we totally want people to homeschool their kids? Yeah, that's what happens.

I'm not sure what your suggesting. Many people DO homeschool their kids because things are taught the parents disagree with.

Its a public school. With a standard curriculum. Would you, as a parent not just discuss this with your kids post-school about why you disagree?

For example - if DS was taught about God in school (which is possible where we live) I would just explain to him post-school that is one belief, and this is what our family believes in. I wouldn't ask for him to be removed from class. I think its good for kid to hear different viewpoints. Now, that IS easy for me to say given that it would likely be taught " as one viewpoint" and not "the only viewpoint" if that makes sense.

[eclaires]

Well, that sounds like a hot mess, but if they take all their funding from the government, they don't have much of a leg to stand on to not follow the rules. I guess I understand parents wanting to opt out, but at the same time, I feel like then they should be looking into private education if it's that important (is that even available?).

From my outside perspective, it seems like excessive entaglement between the government and the churches where the result is just going to be a mess for the schools to have to figure out. That sucks.

[rugbywife]

k, here's my 'teacher anecdote for the day'...I can hear two of my grade 4 students talking about dinosaurs or something but I am barely listening.

Little student 'U' (recently moved to Canada from Pakistan) says: "Miss, this book says that people used to be monkeys, that's true, right?"

Me: "That's what some people believe".

Little Student 'U' returns to desk to Student 'M': "She said people came from monkeys"

Student 'M': "No she didn't, she said some people believe and I don't".

This is the type of situation where I have to watch EVERYTHING I say, I literally almost said, "Of course it's true"....but I can't, because that would get me in shit.

[rugbywife]

Sept 10, 2012 20:13:24 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Well, that sounds like a hot mess, but if they take all their funding from the government, they don't have much of a leg to stand on to not follow the rules. I guess I understand parents wanting to opt out, but at the same time, I feel like then they should be looking into private education if it's that important (is that even available?).

From my outside perspective, it seems like excessive entaglement between the government and the churches where the result is just going to be a mess for the schools to have to figure out. That sucks.

Yes, it's very complicated and due to the history of our country. When Canada was formed one of the big issues was preserving the rights of the French Catholics and English Catholics who lived in Quebec. As a result the right to Catholic Education was written into our national Constitution (once in 1867 in the BNA Act and again in 1982). So as a result it has to be provided by provinces. Now some provinces have since moved to deregulate it (I don't know the logistics) but it has yet to happen in Ontario. It will happen within the next 10 years though, IMO.

The kicker is that you don't have to be Catholic to attend the school, just to teach in it (and even that is highly debatable).

[eclaires]

Sept 10, 2012 20:18:56 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

Sept 10, 2012 20:13:24 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Well, that sounds like a hot mess, but if they take all their funding from the government, they don't have much of a leg to stand on to not follow the rules. I guess I understand parents wanting to opt out, but at the same time, I feel like then they should be looking into private education if it's that important (is that even available?).

From my outside perspective, it seems like excessive entaglement between the government and the churches where the result is just going to be a mess for the schools to have to figure out. That sucks.

Yes, it's very complicated and due to the history of our country. When Canada was formed one of the big issues was preserving the rights of the French Catholics and English Catholics who lived in Quebec. As a result the right to Catholic Education was written into our national Constitution (once in 1867 in the BNA Act and again in 1982). So as a result it has to be provided by provinces. Now some provinces have since moved to deregulate it (I don't know the logistics) but it has yet to happen in Ontario. It will happen within the next 10 years though, IMO.

The kicker is that you don't have to be Catholic to attend the school, just to teach in it (and even that is highly debatable).

ahhh, I see. Well, that has got to be really difficult for the schools and teachers involved. From the little I've read here it's like the government is like "well this has to be available and you have to follow these rules! have fun!" Even if it is a complete clusterfuck in practice.

[rugbywife]

If anyone is interested, this is the letter that is being sent to school: www.peacehamilton.com/pdf/CT-Remain.pdf

See the third page for the lists of things they want to be excluded from.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 20:19:29 GMT -5 drruth said:

Sept 10, 2012 20:06:50 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Well, true, irish. Actually, in Missouri, they now have legal protections for opting out of the quadratic formula, although I have yet to hear about people objecting to it they way they object to set theory.

So I guess I should say I don't think there should be a formal opt out process.

wait, what? you can opt out of the quadratic formula or set theory in Missouri? What kind of hopped up mathematicians live there that there are enough people to object to set theory?

I read it as you can opt out of anything...including my silly example of the quadratic formula

[rugbywife]

Sept 10, 2012 20:22:43 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Sept 10, 2012 20:18:56 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

Yes, it's very complicated and due to the history of our country. When Canada was formed one of the big issues was preserving the rights of the French Catholics and English Catholics who lived in Quebec. As a result the right to Catholic Education was written into our national Constitution (once in 1867 in the BNA Act and again in 1982). So as a result it has to be provided by provinces. Now some provinces have since moved to deregulate it (I don't know the logistics) but it has yet to happen in Ontario. It will happen within the next 10 years though, IMO.

The kicker is that you don't have to be Catholic to attend the school, just to teach in it (and even that is highly debatable).

ahhh, I see. Well, that has got to be really difficult for the schools and teachers involved. From the little I've read here it's like the government is like "well this has to be available and you have to follow these rules! have fun!" Even if it is a complete clusterfuck in practice.

I actually have absolutely NO idea about how private schools are regulated in Ontario. It's only ironic because I attended mostly private/international schools most of my life but it was rarely in Canada.

[eclaires]

Canada, I cannot believe you are teaching beastiality, anal sex, sadism, etc. to little kids. For shame.

what.the.fuck.

[ringstrue]

It seems like it's a normal back lash to change. You get sex Ed several times in school, elementary, highschool, middleschool. I'd be surprised if all those parents took the time to do all that paperwork each time. And then each new class of parents getting into it after a few years? Yeah there are always *those* parents, but IMO it's just a big deal right now.

[hopecounts]

I think the issue is you have a religious school (catholic) being required to teach/accept something it disagrees with so of course some of the parents who sent their kids there for religious reasons are upset over this and want to opt out.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 20:26:10 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

If anyone is interested, this is the letter that is being sent to school: www.peacehamilton.com/pdf/CT-Remain.pdf

See the third page for the lists of things they want to be excluded from.

horoscopes!!!!

I think AW would agree would object to the environmental thing - that you can't place the importance of the environment over judeo-christian beliefs (ie reproducing at Gods will).

[rugbywife]

Sept 10, 2012 20:27:59 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Canada, I cannot believe you are teaching beastiality, anal sex, sadism, etc. to little kids. For shame.

what.the.fuck.

hahaa, yeah, I don't think we really are. And not to little kids.

Last year the Ministry of Ed came out with a new Health and PE curriculum and the Catholic Board went INSANE, mostly because there was a lot in the primary/junior health curriculum about teaching about families/relationships from an inclusive standpoint (that's teacher talk for talking about same sex marriages/families as okay). Then there was a bunch of stuff in the intermediate division (7-10) about homosexuality as well, as well as more stuff about general sex ed (last year I had 8s, I taught about STIs in great detail, nobody opted out, I sent home the letter but with grade 8s you never know if it ever makes it home, I think most kids want to learn it!). Anyways, the curriculum change was halted and we still haven't seen the new update so we are using the old document for now. It still has sex ed but almost nothing about homosexuality. I did talk about anal sex when talking about STIs last year, and oral sex.