XP: the invisible workload that drags women down

[persa]

time.com/money/4561314/women-work-home-gender-gap/

This resonated with me and I thought it would with others. I work full time, have 3 children and have a child with a medical condition that requires constant vigilance (Type 1 diabetes). But I think stay at home moms and even people without children likely feel this too.

[cabbagecabbage]

This is something I've discussed at length in my feminist Facebook group. I have mixed feelings about the fact that I absolutely bear the brunt of the "second shift" work as this article calls it. The most infuriating part is that my husband does not understand and tells me I'm too tense, I worry too much, and if I relaxed I'd be happier. Like, happier but without food to eat or medical care or birthday gifts for anyone? That kind of happier?

[kicks]

Interesting read.
I do agree with the article, sometimes I feel women definitely put extra pressure on themselves.

The joy of dating after divorce was being able to be more selective on certain qualities/importances in a relationship. I'm definitely not the "housekeeping" type so I need a partner who will meet me half way there. Thankfully I've found a partner who is laid back like me and notices when we run out of things, and does the majority of the shopping and cooking when he's in town. I don't think I could be with someone in which all those mental burdens fell on me for both of us.

Adding kids to the mix is a whole different beast and my hats off to all working parents.

[rosiebear]

This is very insightful. It was so very true in my former marriage, but not so much in my current marriage. I do maintain the mental scheduling and emotional temperature-taking, but my H is all about the running of the household. Maybe the fact that he never married until he was 50 contributes to that - he is accustomed to noticing when things need to be done/replaced/replenished.

[cleo29]

That is interesting. Though, my H is pretty observant about when things need replenishing. He also carries the weight of being the sole provider and the stress of that is immense in our area.

I think, whether you are a working mom or stay at home, having a partner who is equally connected and in tune with the kids and the basic running of the house makes a huge difference.

[wambam]

I see this a lot but it is not my personal experience. I am eternally grateful that it is not. What a burden to carry and not get any credit for it.

[mich1]

Anyone who lives alone does these too. Not only that, if you forget to pick up toilet paper, you have no one to blame but yourself. But at the same time, I also dealt with everything for my car, calling maintenance for repairs, etc.

I do most of this stuff too, since I got married. Only difference is that DH checks my oil when he checks his, or he'll fill my car for me if it's low.

[lilybug]

As a single mom living alone with my kids, this is kind of Duh for me. I'm trying to remember how it was when I was married, and I don't remember it being a burden. XH had no problem taking initiative and buying toilet paper or making dinner. Maybe because we both worked full time?

In dating, it's a must for me that someone is able to run their own household, cook meals, etc. I know I'm old now that organization is a turn on 😂

[isabel]

This line is really what hit me: "It’s just that her willingness to do it allows everyone else the freedom not to."

I do not enjoy cleaning and I often find cooking to be a burden. It sucks to be the one to think about finances and remember that we used the last of the ketchup. I think for me it's less willingness and more obligation. DH is great and he absolutely pitches in to get things done without being asked, but most of this stuff falls on me and requires the thought that the article speaks to. It's not about wanting to do it or feeling some intrinsic desire to do so, it's that I have a willingness to get it done and feel a sense of obligation to keep my household running smoothly and my family happy.

[noodleoo]

Dec 31, 2016 11:38:39 GMT -5 cabbagecabbage said:

This is something I've discussed at length in my feminist Facebook group. I have mixed feelings about the fact that I absolutely bear the brunt of the "second shift" work as this article calls it. The most infuriating part is that my husband does not understand and tells me I'm too tense, I worry too much, and if I relaxed I'd be happier. Like, happier but without food to eat or medical care or birthday gifts for anyone? That kind of happier?

Omg yes!!!! We got into a huge argument a few weeks ago because my H said 1) the difference between the 2 of us is that he has a better "attitude" and 2) that I'm angry and frustrated all the time and I need to "learn to relax". I haven't been so mad at him since he told me he was "tired and needed 5 more minutes of sleep" when dd was 2 weeks old and I had been up with her all night. 

This line hit me: "Only then will women have as much lightness of mind as men.". My H is great and he does a lot of specific stuff, but he definitely has a "lightness of mind" that I do not. Particularly around our finances and anything that involves longer term planning. It is frustrating that he never considers the big picture and all the stress of thinking about that falls to me. 

[VillainV]

I kind of get this.....but H does his fair share of this too. He keeps track of when the cars need an oil change, of when the lawn needs to be mowed/weeded/fertilized, he takes out the trash and recycling the night before trash day, he keeps track of our son's medical appointments. He makes sure we have cash to pay the babysitter. Is it 50-50? Probably not. Sometimes I do more and sometimes he does more.

[vanillacourage]

My H does a ton and it's typically a pretty even split. The two areas he totally defers to me are kids' clothes and gifts for everyone we know. So we have an annual moment at the holidays when it's a week to go to Christmas and I'm stressed about last-minute gifts and he tells me to relax. Which results in me screeching at him to ask whether he's worried about what X person will get for Christmas, OH WAIT HE'S NOT because the reason he can be relaxed is because I'm doing all the work. 

No need to offer solutions, all marriages have some quirks and this is one of ours.

[pinkdutchtulips]

i had one child and the brunt of the 2nd shift fell to me. i was constantly tired, exhausted and then h couldn't understand why i was that way. i was working FT with a 2 hr one way commute taking care of the house and dd and all of other stuff bc then h couldn't do to his immobilizing back pain.

it took a toll on our marriage, one of the many things that caused its eventual collapse. i had roughly 3 hours between the time i got home and bedtime bc i was up so early (5a, to get dd and myself out by 6a) and in those 3 hours, the stuff i HAD to get done, was exhausting to anyone (dinner *cook & clean*, get dd and myself ready for the next day, load of laundry, go though mail, check through calendar for upcoming events, play w/ dd, do some quick pick up, get her ready for bed then fall into bed myself). xh would just sit in his chair and complain BITTERLY to me about how i wasn't 'there' and how i needed to be more 'present' and make more time for him.

w/out h, i'm still tired and exhausted but it's for an entirely different reason and it's one i can live with.

should there be a next time around, i want a partner who understands that it takes TWO people to make a household run, especially when there are kids in said household - one person cannot be expected to bear the brunt of EVERYTHING.

[moreace01]

i studied Hochchild's "Second Shift" in college 20 years ago. Of course as a college student, it was interesting to me, but a little hard to understand since I was too young to actually live it. What's interesting to me is that this conversation is still being had (and is still new to many people) today - like nothing at all has changed in the past 20 years.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Dec 31, 2016 14:20:15 GMT -5 moreace01 said:

i studied Hochchild's "Second Shift" in college 20 years ago. Of course as a college student, it was interesting to me, but a little hard to understand since I was too young to actually live it. What's interesting to me is that this conversation is still being had (and is still new to many people) today - like nothing at all has changed in the past 20 years.

Hochchikd's 'Second Shift' had just come out when I started on my sociology degree 20 odd years ago. I remember reading it w a combo of fear and hopefulness. In the trenches 15 years later w a marriage and a kid .. I realize how spot ON she was then. It's one of the few books I kept from college ...

[persa]

Dec 31, 2016 12:45:55 GMT -5 VillainV said:

I kind of get this.....but H does his fair share of this too. He keeps track of when the cars need an oil change, of when the lawn needs to be mowed/weeded/fertilized, he takes out the trash and recycling the night before trash day, he keeps track of our son's medical appointments. He makes sure we have cash to pay the babysitter. Is it 50-50? Probably not. Sometimes I do more and sometimes he does more.

Not to diminish any stress you might be feeling but I think you're doing a lot better than many others are. My H has no idea what goes into managing the household, let alone my son's medical needs, his supplies, his prescriptions, his doctors visits.

[persa]

Dec 31, 2016 12:41:01 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Dec 31, 2016 11:38:39 GMT -5 cabbagecabbage said:

This is something I've discussed at length in my feminist Facebook group. I have mixed feelings about the fact that I absolutely bear the brunt of the "second shift" work as this article calls it. The most infuriating part is that my husband does not understand and tells me I'm too tense, I worry too much, and if I relaxed I'd be happier. Like, happier but without food to eat or medical care or birthday gifts for anyone? That kind of happier?

Omg yes!!!! We got into a huge argument a few weeks ago because my H said 1) the difference between the 2 of us is that he has a better "attitude" and 2) that I'm angry and frustrated all the time and I need to "learn to relax". I haven't been so mad at him since he told me he was "tired and needed 5 more minutes of sleep" when dd was 2 weeks old and I had been up with her all night. 

This line hit me: "Only then will women have as much lightness of mind as men.". My H is great and he does a lot of specific stuff, but he definitely has a "lightness of mind" that I do not. Particularly around our finances and anything that involves longer term planning. It is frustrating that he never considers the big picture and all the stress of thinking about that falls to me. 

cabbagecabbage, I hear that a lot too and it make me fucking ragey!

[persa]

Dec 31, 2016 12:19:38 GMT -5 mich1 said:

Anyone who lives alone does these too. Not only that, if you forget to pick up toilet paper, you have no one to blame but yourself. But at the same time, I also dealt with everything for my car, calling maintenance for repairs, etc.

I do most of this stuff too, since I got married. Only difference is that DH checks my oil when he checks his, or he'll fill my car for me if it's low.

I get what you mean since I was 36 when I got married (and therefore single for a long time) BUT when you're single, it's just YOUR shit that you deal with and YOUR stuff you put away and only YOU using up the TP, paper towels, driving your car, etc etc. And forget about adding on childcare responsibilities.

So I don't think these are equivalent comparisons.

[badgergrl]

My husband asked me in December 23 if there was anything he needed to do for Christmas. My god I have been shopping, wrapping,cooking planning etc for weeks but now t-12 hours and counting you think I might need some help? FFS.

[persa]

Jan 2, 2017 0:01:51 GMT -5 badgergrl said:

My husband asked me in December 23 if there was anything he needed to do for Christmas. My god I have been shopping, wrapping,cooking planning etc for weeks but now t-12 hours and counting you think I might need some help? FFS.

At least my husband did the majority of the wrapping but I was also working a 14 hr shift on Christmas Eve day so I think that was partially out of necessity. I had already done all the shopping though and I'm not even Christian nor did I grow up celebrating Christmas.

[CurlyQ284]

Dec 31, 2016 12:41:01 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Dec 31, 2016 11:38:39 GMT -5 cabbagecabbage said:

This is something I've discussed at length in my feminist Facebook group. I have mixed feelings about the fact that I absolutely bear the brunt of the "second shift" work as this article calls it. The most infuriating part is that my husband does not understand and tells me I'm too tense, I worry too much, and if I relaxed I'd be happier. Like, happier but without food to eat or medical care or birthday gifts for anyone? That kind of happier?

Omg yes!!!! We got into a huge argument a few weeks ago because my H said 1) the difference between the 2 of us is that he has a better "attitude" and 2) that I'm angry and frustrated all the time and I need to "learn to relax". I haven't been so mad at him since he told me he was "tired and needed 5 more minutes of sleep" when dd was 2 weeks old and I had been up with her all night. 

This line hit me: "Only then will women have as much lightness of mind as men.". My H is great and he does a lot of specific stuff, but he definitely has a "lightness of mind" that I do not. Particularly around our finances and anything that involves longer term planning. It is frustrating that he never considers the big picture and all the stress of thinking about that falls to me. 

Yes to literally alllllll of this.
We are starting the process of buying a house and DH just keeps edging the top of our budget up and I said "how are we going to afford this until DS is out of daycare?"
"We'll figure it out"
"We? WE? WE WILL FIGURE IT OUT?"

No. He will be sound asleep snoring while I am up all night trying to figure it out how to get all the bills paid. He also says I need to relax and comments about my attitude.

I just deleted a whole bunch of ranting because it's unnecessary, it's raising my blood pressure and I have an increasing urge to pull his leg hair.

[fumbalina]

My husband does not do his full share, but we had a long talk and he does better. One day he said something about me WANTING to clean the house. I chewed him out and told him I did not want nor enjoy cleaning. He now helps with cleaning without commentary, but I still have to initiate it. He is good at remembering events, so I don't bother. There are many other small things that add up and sometimes make me feel unreasonable.

[miso]

I hate this.

It has only gotten worse since I stopped working.

When my husband had the gall to berate me on the plane for watching two movies while he "watched" the kid (he was playing on the internet while she watched her iPad), I reminded him that I changed her diaper three times in the airplane restroom just on that flight, and he'd never done so.

Ever.

STFU.

[VillainV]

Jan 1, 2017 23:52:46 GMT -5 persa said:

Dec 31, 2016 12:45:55 GMT -5 VillainV said:

I kind of get this.....but H does his fair share of this too. He keeps track of when the cars need an oil change, of when the lawn needs to be mowed/weeded/fertilized, he takes out the trash and recycling the night before trash day, he keeps track of our son's medical appointments. He makes sure we have cash to pay the babysitter. Is it 50-50? Probably not. Sometimes I do more and sometimes he does more.

Not to diminish any stress you might be feeling but I think you're doing a lot better than many others are. My H has no idea what goes into managing the household, let alone my son's medical needs, his supplies, his prescriptions, his doctors visits.

He and I are both stressed. I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think a lot of this is due to the fact that both of us came from households where both parents worked. We both saw our dads cooking dinner and taking the kids to dance class/little league just as much as we saw our moms do it. So we both entered into our marriage with the preconceived notion that the workload and parenting would be close to 50-50 (obviously it isn't always, but for the most part we are there or thereabouts). I'm by no means saying our marriage is perfect or that they way we do things is perfect, just that I think it helps us that we had the same expectations.

[xokell2]

This article really resonates with me. I don't think my husband has ever had to find a dentist, schedule a doctors appointment, enrolled in our benefits, sign up for insurance, clipped kid's nails, registered children for school, gotten on preschool waiting lists, etc... he thinks our bathrooms magically stay clean.

He pats himself on the back that he gets the kids up in the morning and off to school. But I'm the one who packs the backpacks, lunches, snacks, water bottles, homework, snow gear, and sets out outfits for the day the night before.

I have come to the conclusion that keep score of all that doesn't do anything but build anonymously so I've learned to just let it go for the most part.

[starlily]

MH does do his fair share, but he needs a list. It would be nice if he didn't, because I'm the one who has to come up with his list, but if it's something outside his usual chores, he needs a list.

I was still sweating bullets though when I realized kindergarten registration fell on a day I'd be out of state. It was nerve wracking, but I had no choice other than to let it go.