This shit is pissing me off. I can't believe that there are people in here whining about the school "sending the wrong message." What is wrong with you people?
Yeah, I liked some of those posts because my first thought was that the brouhaha could have been avoided with a simple opt in system and that the movie has a great message for everyone. And I do believe that people who are white should see this movie, take African American history classes, and actively seek out education and entertainment that focuses on issues of people of color (duh).
But then I thought about how, as much as I love my husband, there are things I want to do with women and not with him because some of the shared understanding that comes with being a woman enhances that experience. And I'm grown and privileged as all hell. Why shouldn't little girls have that same opportunity? Of course they should.
So I'm not taking back my likes, but I'm admitting my mistake here.
Post by periwinkle on Jan 27, 2017 11:44:13 GMT -5
With all the shit going on this is what these people decide to bitch about? Perspective people, JFC.
Sometimes you aren't included, it might sting a bit but it happens. If anything the parents could use this as a way to teach their kids that life isn't always fair.
And I bet that most of the kids didn't give a shit but the parents are all up in arms.
ETA - the words "reverse racism" should be wiped from our vocabulary. It's not a thing, just stop with that BS. You're white, racism (toward white people) does not apply.
This shit is pissing me off. I can't believe that there are people in here whining about the school "sending the wrong message." What is wrong with you people?
Yeah, I liked some of those posts because my first thought was that the brouhaha could have been avoided with a simple opt in system and that the movie has a great message for everyone. And I do believe that people who are white should see this movie, take African American history classes, and actively seek out education and entertainment that focuses on issues of people of color (duh).
But then I thought about how, as much as I love my husband, there are things I want to do with women and not with him because some of the shared understanding that comes with being a woman enhances that experience. And I'm grown and privileged as all hell. Why shouldn't little girls have that same opportunity? Of course they should.
So I'm not taking back my likes, but I'm admitting my mistake here.
And you know that if there were an opt in system, then people would be complaining about the choice of movie. The poor kids probably never would have gone anyway because it would have been shut down by likely the same people who complained about their kids not being invited.
Post by WOUNDTIGHT on Jan 27, 2017 11:51:22 GMT -5
Yeah, my knee-jerk reaction was wrong.
As a young girl, it would have been fun to participate in a school outing that took just the girls to see a movie about women engineers and I wouldn't GAF how the boys felt about it.
Ugh. My bad. I really fucked up. Such a simple concept, too.
Yeah, I liked some of those posts because my first thought was that the brouhaha could have been avoided with a simple opt in system and that the movie has a great message for everyone. And I do believe that people who are white should see this movie, take African American history classes, and actively seek out education and entertainment that focuses on issues of people of color (duh).
But then I thought about how, as much as I love my husband, there are things I want to do with women and not with him because some of the shared understanding that comes with being a woman enhances that experience. And I'm grown and privileged as all hell. Why shouldn't little girls have that same opportunity? Of course they should.
So I'm not taking back my likes, but I'm admitting my mistake here.
And you know that if there were an opt in system, then people would be complaining about the choice of movie. The poor kids probably never would have gone anyway because it would have been shut down by likely the same people who complained about their kids not being invited.
You're right.
I now hope the school goes balls to the wall too bad/so sad quit your bitching with their response. Hell, I'll do the first draft the release. Call me, OP.
I agree that what they did was shitty. Not only to leave out half or more of the kids, but to single out the black girls like that, "let's take the black girls to a black movie" is polarizing and stupid. Either it's a good movie with a good message or it's not. White kids and boys need the message that black women are smart, successful, and powerful too.
I'm assuming these black children weren't forced to attend the movie in chains. Sometimes it's nice to see things about us without the hot white glare of your classmates to go along with it. I would have loved this as a student, and would encourage a similar outing for my daughter.
DAMMIT!!! I am SO GLAD my soda had barely touched my lips when I read this.
Glad to see these parents are worried about the big issues facing their kids' futures...
I don't think there is anything wrong with this. Children from different backgrounds have different needs to grow in their identity and come to a place of pride in who they are and what they are capable of. Certainly parents have a role to play in that development, but it is more than appropriate for a school system to also foster that development and identity formation. I'm not a parent nor a child development expert but I can see that plain as day from the kids I interact with regularly.
Thank you. Who the fuck are you all to say that black girls don't have the right to see this movie in a positive, comfortable environment? Have you ever been a black child learning about black history with your white classmates? That's the opposite of comfortable and positive.
This is why I'm dreading school for my kid, even though I've gone to great lengths to ensure that she'll be with a lot of black students. People are too simple for their own good, and I'm going to get myself arrested at a PTA meeting sometime in the next two years.
My husband is convinced my eventual arrest is going to be PTA/school related. He claims to have a special bail fund.
I do this shit because I think it matters but its not really meant for people with my nature and personality. I do not like people and I really hate stupid people, both of which are heavily represented in the pta environment.
This shit is pissing me off. I can't believe that there are people in here whining about the school "sending the wrong message." What is wrong with you people?
Yeah, I liked some of those posts because my first thought was that the brouhaha could have been avoided with a simple opt in system and that the movie has a great message for everyone. And I do believe that people who are white should see this movie, take African American history classes, and actively seek out education and entertainment that focuses on issues of people of color (duh).
But then I thought about how, as much as I love my husband, there are things I want to do with women and not with him because some of the shared understanding that comes with being a woman enhances that experience. And I'm grown and privileged as all hell. Why shouldn't little girls have that same opportunity? Of course they should.
So I'm not taking back my likes, but I'm admitting my mistake here.
I agree with you. I can't see it from the lens of a woman of color since I am white. And my original thought was ehh, a girl of color should get to experience this film in a collective, supportive environment with others who share the experience.
That being said, it does concern me when a school says this is for them and not you. We owe It to the films that explore these topics to expose them to audiences far and wide and to make white people and men to see why it is for them. I want white peoples to see and understand... WE did this, WE are STILL doing this. Some parents take up that message and some won't. If the school thinks it is an important message then they should foster that with all the kids.
I still remember seeing Schindler's List in school. Most of late elementary/middle school went and we broke into small groups to discuss it afterwards. It was painful and the school could have just sent the Jewish kids. As Jews there is a shared experience there that I won't " get" as a Christian, but I took away a message that was also for me. You stand up, you be the voice. If you don't you are as good as complicit.
If we want white people to freaking be he change we have to show them the damn way like toddlers. It isn't up to POC to do that, but taking them to a film with this message is a small small way for us to start.
Post by PatBenatar on Jan 27, 2017 12:11:46 GMT -5
At first read I thought it was a little odd that it wasn't open to the whole school, but after reading the responses, it makes sense. And reverse racism isn't a thing
I bet these same parents think there should be a White History Month
And in my son's school (public) I have no problem reminding him that not all things are "for him." If this had been his school I would have told him that and it would have been fine.
Yeah, I liked some of those posts because my first thought was that the brouhaha could have been avoided with a simple opt in system and that the movie has a great message for everyone. And I do believe that people who are white should see this movie, take African American history classes, and actively seek out education and entertainment that focuses on issues of people of color (duh).
But then I thought about how, as much as I love my husband, there are things I want to do with women and not with him because some of the shared understanding that comes with being a woman enhances that experience. And I'm grown and privileged as all hell. Why shouldn't little girls have that same opportunity? Of course they should.
So I'm not taking back my likes, but I'm admitting my mistake here.
I agree with you. I can't see it from the lens of a woman of color since I am white. And my original thought was ehh, a girl of color should get to experience this film in a collective, supportive environment with others who share the experience.
That being said, it does concern me when a school says this is for them and not you. We owe It to the films that explore these topics to expose them to audiences far and wide and to make white people and men to see why it is for them. I want white peoples to see and understand... WE did this, WE are STILL doing this. Some parents take up that message and some won't. If the school thinks it is an important message then they should foster that with all the kids.
I still remember seeing Schindler's List in school. Most of late elementary/middle school went and we broke into small groups to discuss it afterwards. It was painful and the school could have just sent the Jewish kids. As Jews there is a shared experience there that I won't " get" as a Christian, but I took away a message that was also for me. You stand up, you be the voice. If you don't you are as good as complicit.
If we want white people to freaking be he change we have to show them the damn way like toddlers. It isn't up to POC to do that, but taking them to a film with this message is a small small way for us to start.
Okay, but listen. As to your Schindler's list example, I too saw it in school, but not for the first time. The first time I saw it was with other Jews, and I would not have had it any other way. I cried pretty much the entire movie the first time and still cried the second time. And I will tell you that there were students in my class who not only did not cry, but did not fully understand why others were. And my school had a large Jewish population, so it was not due to lack of exposure to Jewish people. Sometimes you just don't get it unless you're part of it. And I was very aware of being watched for my reaction *as a jew* the second time around. I would not have wanted that the first time, regardless of how much it may have benefited the majority.
I think this is a great response. In this case, you've got parents who seem to be concerned and upset for the right reason, but they have the wrong vocabulary to be able to talk about what they're seeing. It's not wrong to correct the terminology, but if the conversation becomes about the terminology rather than about the actual events that took place, that's a problem too.
Where do you get that from? I think the parents are just sad their little special snowflakes were left out, topped with white indignation.
You're right, that wasn't fair of me to say. I suppose I'm applying my own perspective to some of that, which is that no group of students (K-12) should be separated from their peers during the school day for a special activity of any kind, unless that activity is directly related to achievement/growth (and as I said before, even that is tricky).
Parents could share my perspective, or they could be annoyed that their special snowflakes were left out as you've suggested. It was incorrect for me to say that they were upset for the "right reason".
ETA- My issue here is really the separating out kids during the school day. If this had been sponsored by the school outside of normal school (teaching) hours, it would be a different story, for me.
I agree with you. I can't see it from the lens of a woman of color since I am white. And my original thought was ehh, a girl of color should get to experience this film in a collective, supportive environment with others who share the experience.
That being said, it does concern me when a school says this is for them and not you. We owe It to the films that explore these topics to expose them to audiences far and wide and to make white people and men to see why it is for them. I want white peoples to see and understand... WE did this, WE are STILL doing this. Some parents take up that message and some won't. If the school thinks it is an important message then they should foster that with all the kids.
I still remember seeing Schindler's List in school. Most of late elementary/middle school went and we broke into small groups to discuss it afterwards. It was painful and the school could have just sent the Jewish kids. As Jews there is a shared experience there that I won't " get" as a Christian, but I took away a message that was also for me. You stand up, you be the voice. If you don't you are as good as complicit.
If we want white people to freaking be he change we have to show them the damn way like toddlers. It isn't up to POC to do that, but taking them to a film with this message is a small small way for us to start.
Okay, but listen. As to your Schindler's list example, I too saw it in school, but not for the first time. The first time I saw it was with other Jews, and I would not have had it any other way. I cried pretty much the entire movie the first time and still cried the second time. And I will tell you that there were students in my class who not only did not cry, but did not fully understand why others were. And my school had a large Jewish population, so it was not due to lack of exposure to Jewish people. Sometimes you just don't get it unless you're part of it. And I was very aware of being watched for my reaction *as a jew* the second time around. I would not have wanted that the first time, regardless of how much it may have benefited the majority.
I totally understand where you and others are coming from and since I am not Jewish I can't say what my Jewish classmates' perspective on this viewing was either. I do really appreciate the rights of women of color and girls of color to have that shared experience and the value of that for them. And it is possible that is all that matters here. I certainly don't think it is "reverse racism." I just hate to miss the opportunity for white kids to know that films about POC, racial discrimination are for them and why. Particularly for white girls to understand the role that we have played in racism through the years. yes we have been discriminated against and in return we have discriminated, which is disgusting and something we still freaking do today.
I don't think the school did anything wrong. Schools send kids on field trips all the time based on special interest or need. I clearly remember going to a Girls in Science event in the early 90's so it's nothing new.
I'm seeing this movie with my boys this weekend. Parents can take their kids to see any movie, any time. They don't need to wait for the school to have a field trip.
Thank you. Who the fuck are you all to say that black girls don't have the right to see this movie in a positive, comfortable environment? Have you ever been a black child learning about black history with your white classmates? That's the opposite of comfortable and positive.
This is why I'm dreading school for my kid, even though I've gone to great lengths to ensure that she'll be with a lot of black students. People are too simple for their own good, and I'm going to get myself arrested at a PTA meeting sometime in the next two years.
My husband is convinced my eventual arrest is going to be PTA/school related. He claims to have a special bail fund.
I do this shit because I think it matters but its not really meant for people with my nature and personality. I do not like people and I really hate stupid people, both of which are heavily represented in the pta environment.
My husband and I are both incredibly hot-headed people. We decided years ago that he's never allowed to attend a PTA meeting. The only reason I'm allowing myself to go is that I'm smaller and less physically threatening than he is. I can usually keep my hair-trigger temper in check, because I've learned to let a lot of things just roll off my back, but I haven't developed that skill when it comes to my kid.
As an aside, my mom put four children through majority white schools, and made a teacher cry every year. I learned from the master. Every year they tried her, and every year they regretted it.
I totally understand where you and others are coming from and since I am not Jewish I can't say what my Jewish classmates' perspective on this viewing was either. I do really appreciate the rights of women of color and girls of color to have that shared experience and the value of that for them. And it is possible that is all that matters here. I certainly don't think it is "reverse racism." I just hate to miss the opportunity for white kids to know that films about POC, racial discrimination are for them and why. Particularly for white girls to understand the role that we have played in racism through the years. yes we have been discriminated against and in return we have discriminated, which is disgusting and something we still freaking do today.
But you see the problem, right?, in teaching white children about the problem of white supremacy by demanding their inclusion in an event that seeks to empower the victims of white supremacy? It is not the responsibility of small black children to compromise their own development to help white children understand racism.
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YES! I definitely do! And with the school making that decision I wouldn't have questioned it. And it actually isn't necessarily the school's job to make sure white kids "get it" either. It is the parents. But like with sex education, if they aren't getting it at home I hope the school steps in to make sure it is coming from somewhere but there are definitely other ways to do this besides taking the kids to the movies.
I don't think the school did anything wrong. Schools send kids on field trips all the time based on special interest or need. I clearly remember going to a Girls in Science event in the early 90's so it's nothing new.
I'm seeing this movie with my boys this weekend. Parents can take their kids to see any movie, any time. They don't need to wait for the school to have a field trip.
I just walked myself through from a legal perspective and come to the same conclusion. At first blush, anytime you single out a group of students for disparate treatment based on race or gender, you're going to run into possible discrimination issues. But sometimes there are compelling reasons for that, as pointed out in this post.
Reverse racism isn't a thing. It's a term racists made up to make themselves look like victims.
Depending on the motivations of those who set it up, it may very well have been driven by actual racism if people organizing did it that way because they didn't see any value in taking white children's time away from the classroom to see an important movie about women of color. Or it could have been as others suggest, an empowering opportunity. For me to make that decision as to which it was, I would need to know more about who exactly did the organizing and inviting, and what everyone else did when these girls were taken to the movie.
Thank you. Who the fuck are you all to say that black girls don't have the right to see this movie in a positive, comfortable environment? Have you ever been a black child learning about black history with your white classmates? That's the opposite of comfortable and positive.
Thanks for bringing this up, it is pertinant to some of my teaching right now. I am covering Marian Anderson in my classes next week and I have little black girls who have to sit in class with other kids wearing confederate flag gear. I think I am going to have to really work on presenting this in the right way, because the last thing I want is for any of them to feel uncomfortable. (and I need to figure out how to make sure they all (grades 3-6) know how shitty the DAR and pretty much everything leading to the event was without cursing)
Sorry for the aside, back to topic, I think all the kids could benefit from seeing this movie but people need to get over themselves. I hope the girls ended up having a positive experience despite this crap.
My husband is convinced my eventual arrest is going to be PTA/school related. He claims to have a special bail fund.
I do this shit because I think it matters but its not really meant for people with my nature and personality. I do not like people and I really hate stupid people, both of which are heavily represented in the pta environment.
My husband and I are both incredibly hot-headed people. We decided years ago that he's never allowed to attend a PTA meeting. The only reason I'm allowing myself to go is that I'm smaller and less physically threatening than he is.  I can usually keep my hair-trigger temper in check, because I've learned to let a lot of things just roll off my back, but I haven't developed that skill when it comes to my kid.   Â
As an aside, my mom put four children through majority white schools, and made a teacher cry every year. I learned from the master. Every year they tried her, and every year they regretted it.Â
You are well prepared then. I imagine you are also pretty good at figuring out who is worth your time and who isn't. We have been blessed with great teachers for the most part but other parents really are trying most days to piss me off.
I'm about to make our principal cry even though I like him because he hasn't responded to a concern I raised with him over something that happened last week during the inauguration viewing. Kids were booing (which that was sort of heartwarming in bright red East TN I have to say) and were apparently shut down in a way I am still hot about. Almost all of these kids outside of the wealthiest white males (and even those will be affected by shitty education policy) have been insulted/affected by this orange dusted asshole so some dillhole telling them to show some respect can fuck directly off a cliff as far as I'm concerned. A "lets calm down so we can all hear" is all that was needed, not shaming them for expressing their dissent...and advocating for quiet acceptance of racism and bullying and everything we tell them not to be.
Post by bohemianmango on Jan 27, 2017 13:06:31 GMT -5
I think it's interesting that there weren't complaints of reverse sexism. Somehow, people know that it doesn't and can't exist but still attempt to show that reverse racism is possible when it's not.
The parents' complaints are unfounded but I believe the school missed an opportunity for enlightenment and dialogue among the students. I don't think you can ever go wrong by exposing all children to the unseen and unspoken truths of history. I mean, it's very likely the kids' parents weren't aware of this part of American history because people failed to recognize it and/or it was purposely not shared with them.
Thank you. Who the fuck are you all to say that black girls don't have the right to see this movie in a positive, comfortable environment? Have you ever been a black child learning about black history with your white classmates? That's the opposite of comfortable and positive.
I have little black girls who have to sit in class with other kids wearing confederate flag gear
Surely anything with the confederate flag on it is considered hate speech and covered by your school's dress code?
I messed up the quote formatting on the first try and couldn't fix it so I deleted and reposted - sorry for any confusion!
Yeah, I'm not sure the school acted appropriately from a legal perspective (not my area of law) but this isn't racism.
Why not? If it was the black student union and only the people in that club went, would it be ok? The trip was paid for by the parents.
I personally think this is a great time for white kids (and especially their parents) to learn this lesson. Everything isn't about you. And the whole reverse racism crying shows that these parents do not get the importance of this movie, which means their kids most likely wouldn't either.
Yeah, I'm not sure the school acted appropriately from a legal perspective (not my area of law) but this isn't racism.
Why not? If it was the black student union and only the people in that club went, would it be ok? The trip was paid for by the parents.
I personally think this is a great time for white kids (and especially their parents) to learn this lesson. Everything isn't about you. And the whole reverse racism crying shows that these parents do not get the importance of this movie, which means their kids most likely wouldn't either.
I don't know. I think people complaining need to shut it. But, there's something that's pinging my lawyer brain. I think I need to know what the school's reasoning was.
Why not? If it was the black student union and only the people in that club went, would it be ok? The trip was paid for by the parents.
I personally think this is a great time for white kids (and especially their parents) to learn this lesson. Everything isn't about you. And the whole reverse racism crying shows that these parents do not get the importance of this movie, which means their kids most likely wouldn't either.
I don't know. I think people complaining need to shut it. But, there's something that's pinging my lawyer brain. I think I need to know what the school's reasoning was.
Mine too. Something about it being during school hours and not afterwards. I think that's why my thoughts went to "opt in! Solves everything!"
This isn't my area, though, so I am happy to be completely wrong. And the parents are still horrid. And reverse racism still isn't real.
Why not? If it was the black student union and only the people in that club went, would it be ok? The trip was paid for by the parents.
I personally think this is a great time for white kids (and especially their parents) to learn this lesson. Everything isn't about you. And the whole reverse racism crying shows that these parents do not get the importance of this movie, which means their kids most likely wouldn't either.
At my undergrad and law school, any student of any race could join any of the identity groups. One of our most active members in the Latin American Law Students Association was Asian (and also in the Asian Pacific American Law Students Association). So just inviting the members of the union wouldn't necessarily keep things to only that identity group.
There are nuances here - who set this up and why, etc. could be part of the issue. But as everyone else has pointed out, there are compelling reasons for only including black girls, so I think it would stand up to scrutiny (although I thought race was subjected to stricter scrutiny than gender? Con law was my worst subject).
Yes they could. But how many people of other races were in those groups. And I am not talking about college, I am talking about whatever grade these kids are. In my HS the BSU only had black people. But still I think all the complaints are straight stupid and more stuff white people complain about.
Yeah, I'm not sure the school acted appropriately from a legal perspective (not my area of law) but this isn't racism.
Why not? If it was the black student union and only the people in that club went, would it be ok? The trip was paid for by the parents.
I personally think this is a great time for white kids (and especially their parents) to learn this lesson. Everything isn't about you. And the whole reverse racism crying shows that these parents do not get the importance of this movie, which means their kids most likely wouldn't either.
This is a huge lesson that not only white people need to learn, but anyone who doesn't identify with a marginalized group. If someone is angry about things like BET, Gay Pride, women-only events, Black History Month, etc. then they need to stop and reflect on the fact that they are part of the reason why those things are necessary.
As for the movie; the school could have gone either way with including all students or only inviting a select few. It seems like the school made a sound decision that was in the best interests of the select few. PP's made very good points as to why those girls would benefit more from going without the rest of the class (white boys and girls). The parents who are complaining need to learn this lesson perhaps even more so than their kids, it seems.