Why not? If it was the black student union and only the people in that club went, would it be ok? The trip was paid for by the parents.
I personally think this is a great time for white kids (and especially their parents) to learn this lesson. Everything isn't about you. And the whole reverse racism crying shows that these parents do not get the importance of this movie, which means their kids most likely wouldn't either.
I don't know. I think people complaining need to shut it. But, there's something that's pinging my lawyer brain. I think I need to know what the school's reasoning was.
I think I remember the law.
Basically, per the First Amendment, private organizations are usually afforded some permission to "discriminate" if the discrimination is essential to their identity. Girl Scouts don't have to let boys be members, but they can't discriminate on the basis of race. A black student union could discriminate on race, but wouldn't be able to on gender. A black women's student union could discriminate on both those grounds, but would have to let in a, say, a Jewish black woman. And so forth.
There's some messiness when it comes to hiring as opposed to membership. A Catholic churches can refuse to hire a Jewish priest, but wouldn't be able to refuse to hire a Jewish janitor. The law is somewhat in flux, and while I'm not up to date on it, as I understand it the line has been trending towards permitting more discrimination, i.e., years ago, a Catholic school probably couldn't refuse to hire a Jewish gym teacher but now they might be able to.
In this case, the school itself probably could not legally do this since they either are a government entity, or a private school that serves a diverse population. But not everything that is illegal is wrong or immoral. Often legal things are fucked up, and racists have been successful in exploiting those loopholes to advance their agenda.
That said, I'm still stuck on who actually initiated this, because it sounds like it was just a group of parents or community group that approached the school. Or as andwhat suggests, a black student union. Assuming that was the case, I doubt very, very much that there is any legal problem here.
I don't know. I think people complaining need to shut it. But, there's something that's pinging my lawyer brain. I think I need to know what the school's reasoning was.
Mine too. Something about it being during school hours and not afterwards. I think that's why my thoughts went to "opt in! Solves everything!"
This isn't my area, though, so I am happy to be completely wrong. And the parents are still horrid. And reverse racism still isn't real.
And mine. Like, if elementary schools had in-house counsel (ha) and a principal asked me if they could take just the black girls to a movie, my initial reaction is "maybe....?" As with many things in the law, it would all depend on the circumstances and how it was framed. Ultimately, though, I'd probably find a way to approve it.
Post by cookiemdough on Jan 27, 2017 14:40:34 GMT -5
I seriously doubt this was a general school decision. Likely some organization put it together or it was open to a group/club within the school.
The term racism has no place in any of this. When is see stuff like this I wonder how people would actually function if they were an actually a victim of racism.
A big part of the problem is that people see racism and discrimination as synonyms. They aren't. Discrimination in the true sense of the word is a pretty neutral term. It's not bad, it's not good. It's just a factual observation.
Discrimination becomes racism when someone in power uses it to oppress. And it becomes racism even when there's no malicious intent if it generates or will generate harmful effects that people turn a blind eye to. But just because a decision was made to discriminate does not in and of itself mean the decision is bad, unfair, or harmful.
Many of us use the two terms as interchangeable because they often are the same thing. But really, white people need to do a better job of comprehending the differences.
A big part of the problem is that people see racism and discrimination as synonyms. They aren't. Discrimination in the true sense of the word is a pretty neutral term. It's not bad, it's not good. It's just a factual observation.
Discrimination becomes racism when someone in power uses it to oppress. And it becomes racism even when there's no malicious intent if it generates or will generate harmful effects that people turn a blind eye to. But just because a decision was made to discriminate does not in and of itself mean the decision is bad, unfair, or harmful.
Many of us use the two terms as interchangeable because they often are the same thing. But really, white people need to do a better job of comprehending the differences.
A big part of the problem is that people see racism and discrimination as synonyms. They aren't. Discrimination in the true sense of the word is a pretty neutral term. It's not bad, it's not good. It's just a factual observation.
Discrimination becomes racism when someone in power uses it to oppress. And it becomes racism even when there's no malicious intent if it generates or will generate harmful effects that people turn a blind eye to. But just because a decision was made to discriminate does not in and of itself mean the decision is bad, unfair, or harmful.
Many of us use the two terms as interchangeable because they often are the same thing. But really, white people need to do a better job of comprehending the differences.
You are giving people too much credit. Regardless of what people call it, they are pissed. I doubt they would somehow be happier if it was "just" discrimination. This has nothing to do with terminology and everything to do with some getting upset at the notion that any minority is getting something special even if it is not something they even want. Those parents weren't trying to go to that movie themselves, let alone take their kids.
A big part of the problem is that people see racism and discrimination as synonyms. They aren't. Discrimination in the true sense of the word is a pretty neutral term. It's not bad, it's not good. It's just a factual observation.
Discrimination becomes racism when someone in power uses it to oppress. And it becomes racism even when there's no malicious intent if it generates or will generate harmful effects that people turn a blind eye to. But just because a decision was made to discriminate does not in and of itself mean the decision is bad, unfair, or harmful.
Many of us use the two terms as interchangeable because they often are the same thing. But really, white people need to do a better job of comprehending the differences.
You are giving people too much credit. Regardless of what people call it, they are pissed. I doubt they would somehow be happier if it was "just" discrimination. This has nothing to do with terminology and everything to do with some getting upset at the notion that any minority is getting something special even if it is not something they even want. Those parents weren't trying to go to that movie themselves, let alone take their kids.
You're right. But in this example, it's the difference between the school telling those parents "we made a mistake" or "fuck off!" (Well, not exactly fuck off, but you get my point)
I seriously doubt this was a general school decision. Likely some organization put it together or it was open to a group/club within the school.
The term racism has no place in any of this. When is see stuff like this I wonder how people would actually function if they were an actually a victim of racism.
I agree- just think of the special Olympics that school aged kids get to participate during school hours.
While I was growing up, we had a Deaf Day where all deaf students were given the opportunity to meet other deaf children and do activities together (also during school hours).
None of them are decided just by the school.
I don't think this is any different. This isn't racism. This is providing opportunities for students with different backgrounds.
A big part of the problem is that people see racism and discrimination as synonyms. They aren't. Discrimination in the true sense of the word is a pretty neutral term. It's not bad, it's not good. It's just a factual observation.
Discrimination becomes racism when someone in power uses it to oppress. And it becomes racism even when there's no malicious intent if it generates or will generate harmful effects that people turn a blind eye to. But just because a decision was made to discriminate does not in and of itself mean the decision is bad, unfair, or harmful.
Many of us use the two terms as interchangeable because they often are the same thing. But really, white people need to do a better job of comprehending the differences.
You are giving people too much credit. Regardless of what people call it, they are pissed. I doubt they would somehow be happier if it was "just" discrimination. This has nothing to do with terminology and everything to do with some getting upset at the notion that any minority is getting something special even if it is not something they even want. Those parents weren't trying to go to that movie themselves, let alone take their kids.
Yes, absolutely more than just a vocabulary lesson is needed, and even then it won't be enough for many.
Post by spitforspat on Jan 27, 2017 16:06:35 GMT -5
Why should the white kids' opportunity to have this experience and be exposed be more important than the black kids' opportunity to have this experience and be inspired? Seriously.
Omg. Are these the TROPHY FOR EVERYONE! Parents too? I bet they are. I really believe humanity has evolved too far sometimes and we'd be a hell of a lot better off if we had less time to think about stupid shit to get all hot about.
I really hope the school purchases the film in the future for everyone to watch (and not just in February). It is important for everyone to see. But missing class time to see in the theater? I can't get up in arms and indeed can see benefits.
My school had a very large Jewish population (there was no one religious minority), and we spent a whole day meeting with survivors and watching important movies. It made a huge impact on me, and I'm thankful for that. There needs to be more diversity in curriculum without it being "special."
It is truly special to be with fellow classmates like you doing an event like this.