Fixing the relationship between Africans and Af. Americans

[andwhat]

After the whole Luvvie thing I thought this was interesting. This is specifically about the divide between Nigerians and Af. Am.


www.curlynikki.com/2017/04/bridging-gap-fixing-divide-between.html

Especially this

At the last Bridging the Gap event, there was one particular sticking point and that was the concept of African privilege.



“It is believed by some that Africans enjoy a certain level of privilege over African Americans, adding to the tension in our relationship. There are some who however refute this idea, stating that there is no such thing as African Privilege, and the successes Africans enjoy are simply a result of hard work.”

In my small pool of Nigerians, I see the above a lot. One in particular is always trying to say that racism doesn't exist. When he came to this country from Nigeria he went to college in a predominantly white place (somewhere in Texas). He said that he got so much help from the white people there. They helped him get scholarships and all other kinds of things. In his opinion if they did that for an African it would be the same for an African American. I have personally seen that to not necessarily be true. Africans are generally seen as hard workers, come from better/more strict families, have more money (I mean they got here didn't they). The perception is very different than that of African Americans. I have seen this from some of the Africans I know as well as white people.

[childofhiphop]

This topic has been on my mind since college when the African students refused to associate or study with the African American students.

I actually had an honest dialog with one of the African students on why. The conversation covered too much to type out here but the gist was that her general concept of African Americans was negative and mostly from television. She was surprised that we got good grades too. I really could understand her point of view. Like it or not, how we (African Americans) are portrayed on television shows and the news is horrible. I wouldn't want my child that I'm spending money to send to America for education to associate with them either. That is a sad reality. After the conversation though, we were quicker to smile and greet and she even began to (fringe) associate more with our engineering study group.

I think the brunches to bridge the gap are a good start as I'm sure there are misconceptions and preconceived notions on both sides where there needs to be unity.

[fbf2006]

I'll start by saying I'm Nigerian. I came here for college and have been here since (minus a stint in Toronto and London).
Some Nigerians do tend to have a negative view of African Americans, more so our parents' generations who I think would rather their child marry a white person than an African American.
Lots of Nigerians do know the privileges we have and do try to educate others. For example, there are loads of Nigerians who are ashamed and tried to convince the Nigerian Trump supporters against it. A number supported trump for religious reasons 🙄.
I'll say that I haven't found it easy to be close friends with African Americans so most of my closest friends are still Nigerians. I do think there needs to be more unity and would like more Nigerians to watch the PBS 'show,' Against all odds: the fight for a black middle class, to continue to understand better how hard African Americans have been fighting against institutionalized racism over the years.

[fbf2006]

In regards to privilege, I think the thing is a majority of Nigerians that get to the US tend to at least be from middle class families. We went to decent schools and were never really faced with issues that would have truly hindered us and kept us from thinking we could be successful if we worked hard. I think that mentality pushes us and gives us a leg up. I hope I'm conveying my thoughts properly.

[andwhat]

Apr 27, 2017 12:52:01 GMT -5 fbf2006 said:

In regards to privilege, I think the thing is a majority of Nigerians that get to the US tend to at least be from middle class families. We went to decent schools and were never really faced with issues that would have truly hindered us and kept us from thinking we could be successful if we worked hard. I think that mentality pushes us and gives us a leg up. I hope I'm conveying my thoughts properly.

I completely agree with this. And I really don't want to make it seem like I am bashing Nigerians. I am definitely not. I think for most people I know who immigrated from Africa, they all come from money, went to good schools, etc. That is not to say they had it easy at all, but it is a completely different experience than being a descendant of a slave. 

But what I have seen from some is a lack of compassion that their US experience could be different from an Af Am. The comments I have heard are basically that Af Am have been in this country a long time and they should have been able to overcome the obstacles they were faced with and they would if they weren't lazy or expecting a handout or trying to blame someone. 

[05heel]

I appreciate all of these perspectives and the discussion. I'm African-American, and from an area where there are very few non-AA black people so my interactions with them didn't start until college. I've definitely sensed the divide on more than one occasion, but hell if I know what to do about it.

[skwcm80]

Proboards seems to have eaten the response I typed up yesterday.

Like fbf2006 my parents' generation seemed to have a negative view of af-am. I thinks it's toned down quite a bit at least in my family as XH if from CA, and I never got shit for marrying him.

andwhat I agree that there can be little compassion for the af-am experience. I do try to remind people who still hold these attitudes that our parents largely immigrated here in the late 70s & 80s, and while we still have a long way to go in terms of civil rights as a people, we have benefited from the efforts of af-am who were here long before us.

[fbf2006]

Apr 28, 2017 6:45:38 GMT -5 @246baje said:

There's a similar divide between Afro-Caribbean people and Africans and African Americans.

Older generations of Caribbean people encountered attitudes from some Africans, particularly Nigerians who dismissed them as descendants of slaves.

African Americans in the past would look down on Afro-Caribbean people "do you live in a tree/hut?" Etc.

And Afro-Caribbean people especially people from Barbados (who are notorious rule followers) would echo things like "if he would just listen to the police". I've got a FB friend from Barbados who is a US citizen who grudgingly voted for HRC but thinks protests are useless and foolish and that United was in the right. I also had a vigorous argument with him over the fear people were having regarding traveling to and from the US.

He isn't alone I know many privileged Caribbean people who think the same. About 15 years ago my brother and I had a serious conversation about it. His perspective was we struggled growing up. We were barely middle class due to where we lived, but my Dad living in another island and not sending money regularly, meant that things were often hard inside the house where no one could see.

His perspective was that he left our country with only bank teller experience and came to the US first working security at night, then getting another teller job, then within 7 years working his way into senior leadership in his credit union. There is so much opportunity here he wondered, why don't AAs take advantage of it.

And I had to remind him that we came from a country whose singular goal no matter which political party ran it, was the education of black children. In the 1960s our parents benefited from going to universities that were established in the region. Tuition was free. In the 1970s our government established free clinics across the island and nurses came to schools once a year to administer vaccinations. A free hospital was built. In the 1980s came subsidized nursery schools from infants to 3 and government pre schools at age 3.

Free elementary and secondary education was established. To the point where private schools were only for those who didn't want their children to "mix" but were regarded as academically inferior.

In the late 1970s also came merit based admission to elite secondary schools which used to be predominantly white and upper class. These schools were 95% black by the time I attended in the 1990s. These led to a shift in the population to which scholarships were awarded. The government also in the 1960s and 1970s sent promising young students to the US and U.K. to earn advanced certifications. It's how my father, on top of no cost, Math and Physics degrees, became a meteorologist (not a weatherman the real thing lol).

Even I received a free undergraduate degree at a regional university and when I came to TX, I received a low interest loan for $11k because my degree was "of national interest". (Before I get blasted for taking the money and immigrating, I worked with the government for years and they still use my technical posters at international conferences)

So now there is a large educated black middle class and working class. And these folks come to the US and get ahead like my brother and say "there is no racism here, these AAs are lazy" with no acknowledgement of the last 5 decades where an entire country literally willed them to be successful.

Long winded but there it is. Oh after our convo all those years ago my brother has recognized his privilege even though that wasn't the term for it then.

Exactly! Education is huge, no matter what class you're in where I'm from (except the Muslim north unfortunately). Government schools are worse now and people who can, go private, but my parents' generation benefited a lot from the educational system established by the British and then our government after independence in 1960. They also sent promising students to the U.K. and US. My parents went to Ohio State and Ohio U (my dad on a scholarship) back in the mid to late 70s and then went back home.
We need to acknowledge that background and how it helped us.

[fbf2006]

Apr 28, 2017 6:37:02 GMT -5 andwhat said:

Apr 27, 2017 12:52:01 GMT -5 fbf2006 said:

In regards to privilege, I think the thing is a majority of Nigerians that get to the US tend to at least be from middle class families. We went to decent schools and were never really faced with issues that would have truly hindered us and kept us from thinking we could be successful if we worked hard. I think that mentality pushes us and gives us a leg up. I hope I'm conveying my thoughts properly.

I completely agree with this. And I really don't want to make it seem like I am bashing Nigerians. I am definitely not. I think for most people I know who immigrated from Africa, they all come from money, went to good schools, etc. That is not to say they had it easy at all, but it is a completely different experience than being a descendant of a slave. 

But what I have seen from some is a lack of compassion that their US experience could be different from an Af Am. The comments I have heard are basically that Af Am have been in this country a long time and they should have been able to overcome the obstacles they were faced with and they would if they weren't lazy or expecting a handout or trying to blame someone. 

There are many of us that actually do not come from money and are/were just middle class or even struggling. What helps a lot of people is a number (including my older sister) were born in the US in the 70s or 80s, went back home and had a relatively good education. Their parents then decided to send them here for college. In my sister's case, she was able to get pretty much a full ride to Boston University. Others go to community college, state schools, whatever. But we all already have legs up because of our foundation.
I've heard people say what you did in your last paragraph, especially when they initially get to the US. Some eventually get it, others don't.

[andwhat]

I wish there was such a mass focus on education. I think AA would do better if they would just focus on educating their own instead of trying to get their kid into the good white school. That happens too frequently in my area I know. There is too much money and educated parents in my county to have such poorly rated schools (overall).

That was very interesting @246baje

[05heel]

Apr 28, 2017 11:19:20 GMT -5 andwhat said:

I wish there was such a mass focus on education. I think AA would do better if they would just focus on educating their own instead of trying to get their kid into the good white school. That happens too frequently in my area I know. There is too much money and educated parents in my county to have such poorly rated schools (overall).

That was very interesting @246baje

I don't think this is a fair statement. It could be true in an ideal world, but there are so many factors impeding quality education for AA children, many of which are out of our control.

[barcelonagirl]

Totally anecdotal but my play Auntie was from Bermuda. She used to stay with us for months at a time working. Anyhoo she would always get pissed off if anyone assumed she was African-American.

I was all "we flush when it's yellow" hairflip!

[barcelonagirl]

Apr 28, 2017 14:56:34 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Apr 28, 2017 14:50:24 GMT -5 barcelonagirl said:

Totally anecdotal but my play Auntie was from Bermuda. She used to stay with us for months at a time working. Anyhoo she would always get pissed off if anyone assumed she was African-American.

I was all "we flush when it's yellow" hairflip!

I'll be honest that irritates me too because African American is not a race. And to assume every black persona is African American is IMO almost an insult to their culture. AA culture is dominant and well known and I appreciate it greatly. But I also live my culture and treasure it. I want to share it with people but I don't want my culture to be subsumed by another.

Tone is everything. God rest her soul.

[brandnewday]

From what I've encountered, there is a big focus on respectability politics. The main differences I've seen involve what constitutes success. Many of the older Africans I know focus heavily on education, 'respectable' positions such as doctor/lawyer/business/etc. Everything is clearly mapped out and if you just work hard enough, you'll get there. In America, we know that is flawed. Sometimes you want to be a musician or an artist or something 'less worthy.' Also, the timeline has been pretty strict from families I've known. Graduate from HS, graduate from college, grad school, marriage and house, baby within the first year, live happily ever after. Very American Dream.

Like mentioned, I have found that many Af don't have a desire to understand the history of Af. Am. That part is frustrating to me because it clearly is necessary to understand the pathology of how we got to where we are. With all the disdain of how Af. Amer. are not respectable and lazy, it's hard to connect. In one of my civil rights classes, one of my African classmates said that he was colorblind because he'd never been treated as a black American. This was near the end of the semester when we had thoroughly gone through the Black Power Movement and majority of the Civil Rights events and history. I'm sure he still believes he is colorblind. It's damn frustrating.

Religion is also very different even within Christianity. Again, the historical impact of the black church and the black church culture is often lost on the African community. I grew up in a black church and felt totally out of place in an African church. I was more open to its own set of quirks and culture because of my religious upbringing, but it was definitely different.

I want to be clear that I don't think this is an all inclusive type conversation. I've been around and had relationships with Africans that don't fit this picture at all. This has been more collective experience and what I've encountered in my state and in my family.

[newnamesameperson]

Apr 28, 2017 11:19:20 GMT -5 andwhat said:

I wish there was such a mass focus on education. I think AA would do better if they would just focus on educating their own instead of trying to get their kid into the good white school. That happens too frequently in my area I know. There is too much money and educated parents in my county to have such poorly rated schools (overall).

That was very interesting @246baje

Outsider perspective, this is only possible under ideal circumstances.  The white kids fled the AA school system here to create their own charter school.  The remaining schools are poverty level with 98% AA population.  The teachers whether white or AA, not really any other races, are all outsiders to the community they serve.  You can see a you versus them attitude, it's highly evident.  What can the parents do as a whole to ensure that their child is getting the best education possible?  They are involved but what else must they do to fight a system which doesn't care about their kids?  The school events are all during the day whether it is an award ceremony to a field trip.  The funding is completely based on test scores, so rather than teach for the child the focus is teaching for the test.  There is no accommodation.  My perspective is an outsider viewpoint but that's all I've ever had whether it's in white or black schools.  There are so many other mitigating factors to overcome that these parents cannot simply just "focus on education".  

[LLL]

I'm enjoying reading the different perspectives. Like the author's husband, some of my hardest race related interactions growing up were with AA ("you don't look African", "African booty scratcher", :person makes click sounds with their mouths: "what did I just say?")
I do think it's a little unfair to say that Africans are unwilling to accept that they might have benefitted from "African Privilege" or that they're not willing to understand African-American history.

[andwhat]

Apr 30, 2017 20:45:43 GMT -5 newnamesameperson said:

Apr 28, 2017 11:19:20 GMT -5 andwhat said:

I wish there was such a mass focus on education. I think AA would do better if they would just focus on educating their own instead of trying to get their kid into the good white school. That happens too frequently in my area I know. There is too much money and educated parents in my county to have such poorly rated schools (overall).

That was very interesting @246baje

Outsider perspective, this is only possible under ideal circumstances.  The white kids fled the AA school system here to create their own charter school.  The remaining schools are poverty level with 98% AA population.  The teachers whether white or AA, not really any other races, are all outsiders to the community they serve.  You can see a you versus them attitude, it's highly evident.  What can the parents do as a whole to ensure that their child is getting the best education possible?  They are involved but what else must they do to fight a system which doesn't care about their kids?  The school events are all during the day whether it is an award ceremony to a field trip.  The funding is completely based on test scores, so rather than teach for the child the focus is teaching for the test.  There is no accommodation.  My perspective is an outsider viewpoint but that's all I've ever had whether it's in white or black schools.  There are so many other mitigating factors to overcome that these parents cannot simply just "focus on education".  

I will say I am speaking specifically of my area. I live in a predominately black county. Most of it is UMC. Many parents send their children to private school (even in neighboring counties). Based off the SES of my neighborhood alone, if parents sent their kids to the local public school it should perform better (since they say the biggest predictors of success are SES and parental involvement). Even for public schools, many of the parents who I have come in contact with send their kids to other public schools which happen to be in whiter areas. I am not sure how that works. If more than a handful of parents would put their kid in the local school, be involved in the PTA, etc. there is no reason our local school shouldn't be one of the best. 

For reference the schools I hear people talking about is black:white 71:13 and 47:34 and have 10 and 9 ratings respectively (Yes, I know what the ratings mean). Meanwhile the school for my neighborhood 88:1 and has a rating of 3. All the comments talk about how the school has gone down in recent years as more black people moved to the area. The income, advanced degrees, etc. in this area produce more involved parents, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

[fbf2006]

May 22, 2017 10:11:39 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

Apr 27, 2017 12:38:32 GMT -5 fbf2006 said:

I'll start by saying I'm Nigerian. I came here for college and have been here since (minus a stint in Toronto and London).
Some Nigerians do tend to have a negative view of African Americans, more so our parents' generations who I think would rather their child marry a white person than an African American.
Lots of Nigerians do know the privileges we have and do try to educate others. For example, there are loads of Nigerians who are ashamed and tried to convince the Nigerian Trump supporters against it. A number supported trump for religious reasons 🙄.
I'll say that I haven't found it easy to be close friends with African Americans so most of my closest friends are still Nigerians. I do think there needs to be more unity and would like more Nigerians to watch the PBS 'show,' Against all odds: the fight for a black middle class, to continue to understand better how hard African Americans have been fighting against institutionalized racism over the years.

Why? Something about that statement is rubbing me wrong. 

Which one? I'm on my phone and can't tell if you highlighted something.

[fbf2006]

May 22, 2017 14:19:59 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

May 22, 2017 13:27:03 GMT -5 fbf2006 said:

Which one? I'm on my phone and can't tell if you highlighted something.

I had highlighted this: I'll say that I haven't found it easy to be close friends with African Americans

I'm not sure why. When I think of my friendships, i always find that I end up closer to the Nigerians. I'm thinking of my church friends I met around the same time. I think I'm just more comfortable with them because of our similar backgrounds. I have no idea. My husband doesn't have the same issue but he thinks maybe I think of friendships in a much deeper sense than necessary.
Something silly for example is I'm more inclined to invite myself to a Nigerian friend's house than an AA friend.