You are better off than you were 4 years ago.

[Deleted]

it seems that the last three recessions have taken longer and longer to get out of than the first 3

[shadow]

Well, not technically...4 years ago, according to this graph, we were just a little bit better...and then the graph continues to plummet before improving. But yeah, for all intents and purposes, things have improved. It was a landslide under bush and has improved under Obama.

[shadow]

Sept 13, 2012 15:26:01 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Sept 13, 2012 14:49:59 GMT -5 shadow said:

Well, not technically...4 years ago, according to this graph, we were just a little bit better...and then the graph continues to plummet before improving. But yeah, for all intents and purposes, things have improved. It was a landslide under bush and has improved under Obama.

Four years ago, we were in free-fall and no one even knew where the bottom was. We've hit the bottom, we're climbing out and it looks like we're about half way there. To me, that's better. We're no longer standing at the brink of total economic Armageddon, we're actually in recovery.

You are preaching to the choir.

media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m96an6RIGb1rry9ec.gif

I never did figure out pics and gifs here.

[shadow]

Sept 13, 2012 16:03:04 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Sept 13, 2012 15:40:19 GMT -5 shadow said:

You are preaching to the choir.

media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m96an6RIGb1rry9ec.gif

I never did figure out pics and gifs here.

Thank you. And now my crazy aunt is chiming in w/ her anecdotes that make no sense, suggesting that my facts and stats are just spin! :headdesk:

[marynjoe]

No I'm not.

[teflep]

Sept 13, 2012 15:26:01 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Sept 13, 2012 14:49:59 GMT -5 shadow said:

Well, not technically...4 years ago, according to this graph, we were just a little bit better...and then the graph continues to plummet before improving. But yeah, for all intents and purposes, things have improved. It was a landslide under bush and has improved under Obama.

Four years ago, we were in free-fall and no one even knew where the bottom was. We've hit the bottom, we're climbing out and it looks like we're about half way there. To me, that's better. We're no longer standing at the brink of total economic Armageddon, we're actually in recovery.

Except that sequestration is up in 3 months.

And, recovery with such a high number just dropping out if job search?

[2vermont]

Sept 13, 2012 17:34:08 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

No I'm not.

Ditto in my life. But I would add that that probably has more to do with choices we made than the state of the economy.

[marynjoe]

I can only think of 1 person I know who is better off than s/he was 4 years ago. Job losses, rising health insurance rates, rising homeowners insurance rates, rising health care costs, rising daycare costs, layoffs, lower pay, no job security.... Around me, laid off after 13 years, laid off after 15 years, laid off after 30 years, cancer, serious medical issues...... The only person I know who is better off is a non-homeowner who was always a slacker and finally got his shit together.

[pixy0stix]

Development in my area is up over double than what it was last year. Anecdote!

[marie427]

For every anecdote that things are worse, there's an anecdote from someone who's better off now than they were four years ago (hi there!).

I have to wonder why it's gotten more and more challenging and why it's taking longer to dig ourselves out of recession. My only theory is that these days, certain kinds of jobs are more likely to disappear forever, whether through outsourcing or because the jobs are obsolete.

[teflep]

Sept 13, 2012 17:57:31 GMT -5 marie427 said:

For every anecdote that things are worse, there's an anecdote from someone who's better off now than they were four years ago (hi there!).

I have to wonder why it's gotten more and more challenging and why it's taking longer to dig ourselves out of recession. My only theory is that these days, certain kinds of jobs are more likely to disappear forever, whether through outsourcing or because the jobs are obsolete.

I think that is true as is people aren't borrowing for their lifestyle and, thus, not spending as they have in past,

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2012 18:08:29 GMT -5 teflep said:

Sept 13, 2012 17:57:31 GMT -5 marie427 said:

For every anecdote that things are worse, there's an anecdote from someone who's better off now than they were four years ago (hi there!).

I have to wonder why it's gotten more and more challenging and why it's taking longer to dig ourselves out of recession. My only theory is that these days, certain kinds of jobs are more likely to disappear forever, whether through outsourcing or because the jobs are obsolete.

I think that is true as is people aren't borrowing for their lifestyle and, thus, not spending as they have in past,

Is it potentially due to us being a more global world now? I mean things are stuffed in Europe, so does that in turn make it harder for the rest of the world to bring itself out? China and India are also more competitive now, so does that have an impact? What's the flow on impact from how the different generations spend (or don't spend) money?

[marynjoe]

The economy and job market are not how it was for us 4 years ago. Not even close.

[SmartyCat]

This time four years ago the bottom was about to drop out and nobody knew how far down the bottom was. As a point in time, is my household better off than we were 4 years ago? In some ways yes, in other ways no. DH was laid off, and is still fighting his way back to the income he was making in 2008. On the plus side, DS launched his adult life in a time of high unemployment in his age group and is doing just fine. So our income is still off, but our costs went down also.

By September 2008 we knew - everybody knew - that the economy was going off a cliff and we were living on borrowed time. I wouldn't trade places now with where I was then.

[Here]

I noticed the X axis is workforce size. Is that adjusted for the baby boomer retirements? That might be why that graph shows it is taking so long.

[StrawberryBlondie]

We're definitely better off than we were 4 years ago.

Anecdotes FTW?

[marynjoe]

I am not better off than I was 4 years ago. I'm responding to the title of the thread only, not commenting on the situation of the whole country.

[aurora]

Sept 13, 2012 17:57:31 GMT -5 marie427 said:

...
I have to wonder why it's gotten more and more challenging and why it's taking longer to dig ourselves out of recession. My only theory is that these days, certain kinds of jobs are more likely to disappear forever, whether through outsourcing or because the jobs are obsolete.

My pessimistic side says that our elected leaders - on both sides, but especially in Congress - have gotten more argumentative and more willing to stall just to try to get the other side to fail rather than trying to make compromises to benefit the country. But I've only been voting for the last 2 recessions so I wasn't paying as much attention in the earlier ones.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2012 11:17:48 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

I am not better off than I was 4 years ago. I'm responding to the title of the thread only, not commenting on the situation of the whole country.

And while I'm quite certain you are not alone, the point is probably that despite criticism from the Romney campaign, Obama has managed to turn things around for the country as a whole. Which is a very positive thing, even if you haven't been directly impacted (yet).

Obama inherited a crappy economy (thanks, Bush!) and managed to stop the free-fall and steady things out. He's not a miracle worker but I do think he doesn't receive enough credit for the state of the economy.

[iammalcolmx]

Sept 14, 2012 11:35:34 GMT -5 @lauriergirl28 said:

Obama inherited a crappy economy (thanks, Bush!) and managed to stop the free-fall and steady things out. He's not a miracle worker but I do think he doesn't receive enough credit for the state of the economy.

Wirth all due respect there are way more folks to blame than Bush

[marynjoe]

Sept 14, 2012 11:24:38 GMT -5 aurora said:

My pessimistic side says that our elected leaders - on both sides, but especially in Congress - have gotten more argumentative and more willing to stall just to try to get the other side to fail rather than trying to make compromises to benefit the country. But I've only been voting for the last 2 recessions so I wasn't paying as much attention in the earlier ones.

Yup. Total gridlock. It's ridiculous.

[teflep]

Sept 14, 2012 11:58:50 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

Sept 14, 2012 11:35:34 GMT -5 @lauriergirl28 said:

Obama inherited a crappy economy (thanks, Bush!) and managed to stop the free-fall and steady things out. He's not a miracle worker but I do think he doesn't receive enough credit for the state of the economy.

Wirth all due respect there are way more folks to blame than Bush

sorry, incorrect...when in doubt, blame bush (or Reagan)

[teflep]

Sept 14, 2012 18:35:21 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Sept 14, 2012 18:28:59 GMT -5 teflep said:

sorry, incorrect...when in doubt, blame bush (or Reagan)

Probably best to blame them both (and Clinton) for this disaster.

Anyone who thinks that Reagan's era of deregulation and trickle down theory is the impetus for this recession has their head in the sand.

I was being tic. But, agreed

[tlkdhk]

People don't seem to feel that way though...
www.cnn.com/POLITICS/pollingcenter/polls/3070

[emisi]

Sept 14, 2012 21:09:51 GMT -5 tlkdhk said:

People don't seem to feel that way though...
www.cnn.com/POLITICS/pollingcenter/polls/3070

My problem with this: more people say they're either better off or the same. What is the same? Did they have a job when Obama was elected, lost it, and now have an equal job, so they're "the same"? DId they have a job and STILL have a job? Did they lose a job and still can't find one? It's not quantified.

[tlkdhk]

Sept 14, 2012 21:38:21 GMT -5 emisi said:

My problem with this: more people say they're either better off or the same. What is the same? Did they have a job when Obama was elected, lost it, and now have an equal job, so they're "the same"? DId they have a job and STILL have a job? Did they lose a job and still can't find one? It's not quantified.

I don't think it's a good sign when 44% of people in a CNN poll report being worse off. Knowing that the economy was pretty bad 4 years ago doesn't make me encouraged that 19% identify as being "the same."

[Deleted]

How everyone defines better off or worse off is so subjective. Overall, we're definitely better off than when we were in freefall and losing jobs my the millions.

Individually, few are probably actually better off than before the recession. They were either lucky enough to keep their jobs (but with a stagnant income) or lucky enough to find another job after being laid off - and probably with a big pay cut.

I screwed myself. I managed to stay "the same" throughout most of this period - same job, but a couple of years of pay freezes. Then I switched to "worse off" when I took a layoff rather than add a 3 hour commute to my day when my job moved, so now I'm making 20% less at another job. And feeling lucky that at least I found a job.

I think overall, we're doing better because more people are employed, but so many are underemployed or underpaid compared to what they earned before.

[tlkdhk]

Well, the unemployment rate is down but it's not exactly peppered with optimistic news:

"The unemployment rate declined in August to 8.1 percent, a drop that occurred largely because 368,000 people left the labor force. The Labor Department counts only those actively seeking a job as unemployed.

Economists attribute the workforce decline, which accelerated with the country’s economic problems, both to an aging population and the despair engendered by an unemployment rate that has hovered above 8 percent for 43 consecutive months."

www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/us-adds-96000-jobs-in-august-unemployment-rate-drops-to-81-percent/2012/09/07/30374bfa-f8e9-11e1-8398-0327ab83ab91_story.html

Again, there is still underemployment, people that have stopped looking for jobs (like me), etc. It doesn't pay for me to work if it would all go into aftercare or daycare which is a change from several years ago. We've tightened our belts and reduced our standard of living.

[ttt]

But corporate profits are way up, so does anything else really matter? I'm sure that money will trickle down to us pretty soon.

www.businessinsider.com/corporate-profits-just-hit-an-all-time-high-wages-just-hit-an-all-time-low-2012-6

[teamc]

Sept 14, 2012 14:17:29 GMT -5 marynjoe said:

Sept 14, 2012 11:24:38 GMT -5 aurora said:

My pessimistic side says that our elected leaders - on both sides, but especially in Congress - have gotten more argumentative and more willing to stall just to try to get the other side to fail rather than trying to make compromises to benefit the country. But I've only been voting for the last 2 recessions so I wasn't paying as much attention in the earlier ones.

Yup. Total gridlock. It's ridiculous.

IMO, you're better off when this occurs. The last thing we all need is EVEN MORE Knee jerk reaction and uneducated decision making by the government. Good decisions should never be easy, and should be stalled and healthily debated to ensure it is best for everyone. This is your government at work.