Babies from skin cells? In vitro gametogenesis (IVG)

[Velar Fricative]

www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/health/ivg-reproductive-technology.html?

"With I.V.G., two men could have a baby that was biologically related to both of them, by using skin cells from one to make an egg that would be fertilized by sperm from the other. Women with fertility problems could have eggs made from their skin cells, rather than go through the lengthy and expensive process of stimulating their ovaries to retrieve their eggs.

'It gives me an unsettled feeling because we don’t know what this could lead to,' said Paul Knoepfler, a stem cell researcher at the University of California, Davis. 'You can imagine one man providing both the eggs and the sperm, almost like cloning himself. You can imagine that eggs becoming so easily available would lead to designer babies.'


Some scientists even talk about what they call the 'Brad Pitt scenario' when someone retrieves a celebrity’s skin cells from a hotel bed or bathtub. Or a baby might have what one law professor called 'multiplex' parents."

[pixy0stix]

Whoah.

WHOAH!

I need a minute to think about this, because WHOAH

[hopecounts]

Woah is right.
On the one hand as someone who has no eggs this is a fascinating possibility.
On the other I can absolutely see the potential issues with it.

[mbcdefg]

Oh man ... this is quite the double-edged sword.

[2curlydogs]

This seems like it would be prohibitively costly, should it ever even come to fruition. "Regular" IVF is already so expensive and this requires so much more genetic engineering.

[mbcdefg]

Here's a similar story from Northwestern, involving 3D-printed ovaries:


news.northwestern.edu/stories/2017/may/3-d-printed-ovaries-offspring/ 

The brave new world of 3-D printed organs now includes implanted ovary structures that, true to their design, actually ovulate, according to a study by Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine and McCormick School of Engineering.



By removing a female mouse’s ovary and replacing it with a bioprosthetic ovary, the mouse was able to not only ovulate but also give birth to healthy pups. The moms were even able to nurse their young.



The bioprosthetic ovaries are constructed of 3-D printed scaffolds that house immature eggs, and have been successful in boosting hormone production and restoring fertility in mice, which was the ultimate goal of the research.

[AutumnRose25]

I would think the skin cells would need to be retrieved through a controlled medical procedure.

I doubt anyone could just roll into a clinic with a piece of skin and request an egg.

Current IF treatments require multiple testing procedures, consent forms etc. so I don't think this would be an "easier" process that would lead to a rash of celebrity skin-babies.

It bothers me when people jump to crazy theories that give"negatives" for possible medical procedures that could make massive impacts for other people in very positive ways...like for example the people who oppose stem cell research because of far-fetched and totally unfounded theories of how it will be "abused"

[andwhat]

May 17, 2017 10:08:18 GMT -5 AutumnRose25 said:

I would think the skin cells would need to be retrieved through a controlled medical procedure.

I doubt anyone could just roll into a clinic with a piece of skin and request an egg.

Current IF treatments require multiple testing procedures, consent forms etc. so I don't think this would be an "easier" process that would lead to a rash of celebrity skin-babies.

It bothers me when people jump to crazy theories that give"negatives" for possibly medical procedures that could make massive impacts for other people in very positive ways.

I know this isn't funny and all I can think in whoa this should not be happening, but the bolded made me laugh.

[Velar Fricative]

May 17, 2017 10:08:18 GMT -5 AutumnRose25 said:

I would think the skin cells would need to be retrieved through a controlled medical procedure.

I doubt anyone could just roll into a clinic with a piece of skin and request an egg.

Current IF treatments require multiple testing procedures, consent forms etc. so I don't think this would be an "easier" process that would lead to a rash of celebrity skin-babies.

It bothers me when people jump to crazy theories that give"negatives" for possible medical procedures that could make massive impacts for other people in very positive ways...like for example the people who oppose stem cell research because of far-fetched and totally unfounded theories of how it will be "abused"

The article does mention later on how much of these concerns existed when IVF was in its early infancy, and now look at how beneficial IVF has been for so many families. I am all for making things easier for anyone battling infertility to grow their families although I understand the ethical questions need to be hashed out by the medical community.

I also roll my eyes at "designer babies." I imagine very few folks pursuing IVF are saying, "I want my baby to have brown eyes, blond hair, etc." And even if they are, I don't care; not my body, not my family, not my problem. But the "designer babies" comment often includes those people pursuing IVF and having embryos tested for genetic issues, and I have a big problem in general with people opining that others should just let "nature take its course" and not care about genetic issues.

[waffletime]

May 17, 2017 10:08:18 GMT -5 AutumnRose25 said:

I would think the skin cells would need to be retrieved through a controlled medical procedure.

I doubt anyone could just roll into a clinic with a piece of skin and request an egg.

Current IF treatments require multiple testing procedures, consent forms etc. so I don't think this would be an "easier" process that would lead to a rash of celebrity skin-babies.

It bothers me when people jump to crazy theories that give"negatives" for possible medical procedures that could make massive impacts for other people in very positive ways...like for example the people who oppose stem cell research because of far-fetched and totally unfounded theories of how it will be "abused"

Right? This is where I'm at. Problem is easily solved by having the doctor do the sample acquisition, which, since they're reprogrammed would presumably need live cells anyways, not the dead cells that flake off in your bathtub. I feel like it'd work exactly the same way it would now, except with a significantly less invasive retrieval and open the option for biological children to a larger group.

[2curlydogs]

May 17, 2017 10:06:10 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Here's a similar story from Northwestern, involving 3D-printed ovaries:


news.northwestern.edu/stories/2017/may/3-d-printed-ovaries-offspring/ 

The brave new world of 3-D printed organs now includes implanted ovary structures that, true to their design, actually ovulate, according to a study by Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine and McCormick School of Engineering.

By removing a female mouse’s ovary and replacing it with a bioprosthetic ovary, the mouse was able to not only ovulate but also give birth to healthy pups. The moms were even able to nurse their young.

The bioprosthetic ovaries are constructed of 3-D printed scaffolds that house immature eggs, and have been successful in boosting hormone production and restoring fertility in mice, which was the ultimate goal of the research.

3D printing in the medical field fascinates me as much as IoT and AI. 

[DesertMoon]

Intetesting

[juliej]

I feel the need to watch "Gattaca."

[AutumnRose25]

May 17, 2017 10:01:31 GMT -5 carmenere said:

I'm all for scientific advancements that could relieve the physical and financial burdens of treatments for couples dealing with infertility, but the possibility of conceiving someone's biological child without their knowledge or involvement is scary.

Okay, enough with this bullshit!!!

This ALREADY HAPPENS NOW without the use of any technology.

People lie about being birth control, poke holes in condoms or steal sperm from a used condom.

You clearly have have NO idea how IF technologies and treatments work.

It's virtually impossible to use the technology without someone's knowledge to "create" a child with current processes and there is no way that this would make it "easier".







Seriously your statement on this is fucking crap.

[pixy0stix]

In case anyone is wondering, I'm still in the "whoah" stage.

[AutumnRose25]

May 17, 2017 16:34:31 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

In case anyone is wondering, I'm still in the "whoah" stage.

I'm trying to figure out the mechanism for how it would create the sex chromosomes needed?


Like, I "get" you could glean genetic material but how do you "make it" into an egg?

[pixy0stix]

May 17, 2017 16:37:42 GMT -5 AutumnRose25 said:

May 17, 2017 16:34:31 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

In case anyone is wondering, I'm still in the "whoah" stage.

I'm trying to figure out the mechanism for how it would create the sex chromosomes needed?

Like, I "get" you could glean genetic material but how do you "make it" into an egg?

I can't even get my head to wrap around this at all. Babies in external uteri? Easy. Making embryos from skin cells? Nope. Whoah.

[laurenpetro]

May 17, 2017 10:47:41 GMT -5 waffletime said:

May 17, 2017 10:08:18 GMT -5 AutumnRose25 said:

I would think the skin cells would need to be retrieved through a controlled medical procedure.

I doubt anyone could just roll into a clinic with a piece of skin and request an egg.

Current IF treatments require multiple testing procedures, consent forms etc. so I don't think this would be an "easier" process that would lead to a rash of celebrity skin-babies.

It bothers me when people jump to crazy theories that give"negatives" for possible medical procedures that could make massive impacts for other people in very positive ways...like for example the people who oppose stem cell research because of far-fetched and totally unfounded theories of how it will be "abused"

Right? This is where I'm at. Problem is easily solved by having the doctor do the sample acquisition, which, since they're reprogrammed would presumably need live cells anyways, not the dead cells that flake off in your bathtub. I feel like it'd work exactly the same way it would now, except with a significantly less invasive retrieval and open the option for biological children to a larger group.

Science-stuff in general makes me queasy but the bathtub thing put me over the edge.

I'll stay with Pixy in the Woah corner.

[meshaliuknits]

May 17, 2017 10:02:32 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

This seems like it would be prohibitively costly, should it ever even come to fruition. "Regular" IVF is already so expensive and this requires so much more genetic engineering.

I have this vague memory from my college days (hence why it's vague) of a similar study in which the DNA in a sperm cell was replaced with that from an egg and then they went on to fertilize a 2nd donor egg (different DNA). Australia, maybe? IIRC it was really hard to replicate and very expensive. But that was (mumbles number) of years ago.

[tessalb]

I'm in the "Holy crap science is soooooo cool" camp. IVF is so invasive. I remember feeling like I was carrying this enormous responsibility with the shots and ultrasounds and blood work. It took the romance out of getting pregnant. IVG would be so much less invasive. Very cool stuff indeed.

[Jalapeñomel]

...!!!!!...!!!!

[msmerymac]

May 17, 2017 10:19:47 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

May 17, 2017 10:08:18 GMT -5 AutumnRose25 said:

I would think the skin cells would need to be retrieved through a controlled medical procedure.

I doubt anyone could just roll into a clinic with a piece of skin and request an egg.

Current IF treatments require multiple testing procedures, consent forms etc. so I don't think this would be an "easier" process that would lead to a rash of celebrity skin-babies.

It bothers me when people jump to crazy theories that give"negatives" for possible medical procedures that could make massive impacts for other people in very positive ways...like for example the people who oppose stem cell research because of far-fetched and totally unfounded theories of how it will be "abused"

The article does mention later on how much of these concerns existed when IVF was in its early infancy, and now look at how beneficial IVF has been for so many families. I am all for making things easier for anyone battling infertility to grow their families although I understand the ethical questions need to be hashed out by the medical community.

I also roll my eyes at "designer babies." I imagine very few folks pursuing IVF are saying, "I want my baby to have brown eyes, blond hair, etc." And even if they are, I don't care; not my body, not my family, not my problem. But the "designer babies" comment often includes those people pursuing IVF and having embryos tested for genetic issues, and I have a big problem in general with people opining that others should just let "nature take its course" and not care about genetic issues.

We're doing the genetic testing because my husband is 42 years old and why not do it now rather than transfer a non-viable embryo? But also, insurance doesn't cover it at all. I'm lucky that the state my insurance is based in mandates fertility coverage (though it was still a struggle to get approval), but I'll end up paying about $5k for genetic testing because insurance covers 0 of that.

They send 1 cell to the lab in a neighboring state. I doubt the lab tests for any kind of characteristic. They basically just have a generic panel they run. They MIGHT be able to tell someone the sex, but that's probably rare.

[imojoebunny]

I find this really amazing. I don't have a problem with "designer babies", the people I know who have "designed" babies, have significant and painful genetic issues for doing so, think CF or Tay-Sachs. It is expensive, painful, and time consuming. No one is doing it for perfect, little geniuses, with blue eyes and brown hair of a particular sex, and if they are, they likely won't get it, as DNA is very complex.

I have a hard time imagining a day when it would become a real thing that you could scratch someone, take their skin cells to a doctor, and get a baby, much less from cells left in a bathroom. I also question that a single person would want to make their whole child, given the genetics outcomes of inbreeding. I can't read the whole article though.

[satsuma]

May 17, 2017 16:37:42 GMT -5 AutumnRose25 said:

May 17, 2017 16:34:31 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

In case anyone is wondering, I'm still in the "whoah" stage.

I'm trying to figure out the mechanism for how it would create the sex chromosomes needed?


Like, I "get" you could glean genetic material but how do you "make it" into an egg?

This touches on it, but doesn't get too technical
www.nature.com/news/mouse-eggs-made-from-skin-cells-in-a-dish-1.20817

[centralsquare]

If I could sign up for this today, I would.

[msmerymac]

May 17, 2017 19:20:15 GMT -5 centralsquare said:

If I could sign up for this today, I would.

I literally just got a bunch of scary looking hypodermic needles, vials, and a sharps container from CVS, so I agree.

[centralsquare]

May 17, 2017 20:13:38 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

May 17, 2017 19:20:15 GMT -5 centralsquare said:

If I could sign up for this today, I would.

I literally just got a bunch of scary looking hypodermic needles, vials, and a sharps container from CVS, so I agree.

It's shocking what you'll be able to do if you have to. It's not about a fear of needles. I've TFMR'd twice and just found out my third IVF around didn't work. So, yeah. Something where I could try many times without the insane toll on my body? Sign me up.

[bernsteincat]

May 17, 2017 21:19:17 GMT -5 centralsquare said:

May 17, 2017 20:13:38 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

I literally just got a bunch of scary looking hypodermic needles, vials, and a sharps container from CVS, so I agree.

It's shocking what you'll be able to do if you have to. It's not about a fear of needles. I've TFMR'd twice and just found out my third IVF around didn't work. So, yeah. Something where I could try many times without the insane toll on my body? Sign me up.

My husband will likely never be able to get me pregnant without expensive IVF, so if this was affordable, it would be an amazing option for us.

[One Girl In All The World]

May 17, 2017 11:06:06 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

May 17, 2017 10:06:10 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Here's a similar story from Northwestern, involving 3D-printed ovaries:


news.northwestern.edu/stories/2017/may/3-d-printed-ovaries-offspring/ 

3D printing in the medical field fascinates me as much as IoT and AI. 

For the life of me, I cannot wrap my head around 3D printing of anything. For medical stuff it's just like.. WHOA.

[laurack]

What a time to be alive!

I know there's a lot of bad shit happening right now and one can start to feel pretty bleak but I have to say reading about medical advancements taking place during my lifetime just makes me feel happy. What we as people have achieved in terms of both computing and medical technology/advancements during my lifetime is astounding and I'm only 34.

Also yes I was hysterically laughing at the image of people rolling up to the clinic with a piece of random skin. Still laughing now ...