I avoid conflict -- need to have a tough convo

[callmekd]

Aug 10, 2017 9:25:22 GMT -5 erinshelley21 said:

Yeah she did nothing wrong. It sounds like the other girl just got butt hurt about it.

Omg this!! Fred - you need to talk to them. This is unacceptable

[frozenpeas]

I'm so sorry and worried about your girl. Is she still taking this hard? Does she understand she wasn't kept home today because she did something wrong? In addition to talking to the camp, I'd want to focus on making sure she understood that she was not in the wrong and you are not mad at her and she isn't being punished (I'm sure you've done all this). You can talk about ways she might react differently now that she's had time to think about it, but I hope she can understand this is the counselor's issue, not hers.

Ugh, I'm so sorry and I feel so sad on her behalf.

[supertrooper1]

I would email the director and if you don't like the response, then meet in person.

I understand being upset about her telling the personal information, but be prepared that it will come out again to the strangest people. I don't bring it up often IRL that I was adopted because as you know, it doesn't matter. But when it has come up, it's crazy how much personal information is shared with that one piece of information. So I think you need to come up with a plan with her if it ever gets to that point again. Because if it came up when she was that distraught, it can come up with a teacher, neighbor, or friend. Although it sounds like you think they used it against her in this case, I don't think others would react poorly to knowing that and might actually be more forgiving.

[akafred]

Aug 10, 2017 10:51:30 GMT -5 frozenpeas said:

I'm so sorry and worried about your girl. Is she still taking this hard? Does she understand she wasn't kept home today because she did something wrong? In addition to talking to the camp, I'd want to focus on making sure she understood that she was not in the wrong and you are not mad at her and she isn't being punished (I'm sure you've done all this). You can talk about ways she might react differently now that she's had time to think about it, but I hope she can understand this is the counselor's issue, not hers.

Ugh, I'm so sorry and I feel so sad on her behalf.

I cuddled with her last night and told her very clearly that I believe her, that I do not think she did anything wrong, and that I am sorry the grown ups did not listen to her the way they should. She seemed SO relieved when I said that. She said that makes her feel good to hear me say that I believe her. We also talked about some of the other things, like how her story is HER story and it isn't something to be ashamed of, but it isn't something she needs to feel obligated to tell anyone she doesn't want to tell, and sometimes it might be hard for other people to hear and they might not handle it well. And we discussed what she could have done in that moment (keep her mouth shut and tell an adult) and she said no one would believe her if she did. So we discussed that this is why I always say it's important to tell the truth so people always believe her when she tells them something important. I also told her that I would talk to the camp and let them know what happened and that the adults didn't really handle it that well so that they can handle it better next time, and she seemed happy to hear that. In general she seemed to be a lot more relaxed after that.

[akafred]

And now that 2chatter has seen this (liked my post), I am poofing the details.

That came out wrong. I love you, 2chatter! I am hoping you will respond. I just waited until I knew you read it to DD.

[2chatter]

So this sounds very similar to my experience with DS earlier this summer. Some days they were very wound up about things that were absolutely not a big deal. Like he refused to color a picture. So what? In our case, they were not able to handle the other child in the class, and that bled over - they were just at their maximum. We were trying to stick it out, but couldn't. Harder than the confrontations for me was realizing it wasn't the right place for DS. That I had been failing him.

So I would be very focused on the wider context - who first reacted to this, is that someone who is dramatic? Doesn't deal well with your DD? And how was the rest of the day? Tease out the bigger picture from them. BUT the reaction to the things she shared with them is what would push me over the edge. Now they have a label for her in their heads. Not everyone would, but it sounds like they do.

If budget allows, I would find a sitter or different camp or alternatives to this place where possible. I am by nature the last person to burn it down - I left DS where he was for too long - but I think their mental space in regards to your DD is not good. And that's on them and entirely out of your control. So unless they change their tune, I would be as done as made sense.

I never expected terminating these relationships around my children to feel just like a break up. But they do.

[mustardseed2007]

I just hate this lady. Sorry you're having to mess with this.

[2chatter]

akafred that made me laugh! Which I needed because I was very wound up on your DD's behalf.

[campermom]

I'm sorry you are going through this.

When you summarized your convo with her last night, it made me tear up. Following your story all these years I just want to say it "out loud" that you are such a great mom. You've faced some challenges many of us have not had to, but you've navigated them as a true advocate for your little girl and problem solved in so many ways that have framed the obstacles as learning opportunities (for others, too). You have such a natural way of handling things and you so fiercely give her ways to let her strengths shine. I wish you could give lessons or something. Creepy internet hugs!

[akafred]

Aug 10, 2017 12:28:29 GMT -5 campermom said:

I'm sorry you are going through this.

When you summarized your convo with her last night, it made me tear up. Following your story all these years I just want to say it "out loud" that you are such a great mom. You've faced some challenges many of us have not had to, but you've navigated them as a true advocate for your little girl and problem solved in so many ways that have framed the obstacles as learning opportunities (for others, too). You have such a natural way of handling things and you so fiercely give her ways to let her strengths shine. I wish you could give lessons or something. Creepy internet hugs!

I'm crying. . Thanks, that is so sweet!

[waverly]

I agree with 2chatter. She worded it in more detail, but that is where I was coming from as well. That they have this attitude or label maybe that I don't like.

We broke up with our daycare this summer more for price and location being farther away. It was entirely on good terms, and still was sad and feels like a break up. I think it was necessary though just because we are saving $100 a week, and $200 a week from last year and it is more convenient. I left it where we could come back and didn't burn the bridge.

[akafred]

Ok email sent. I started itnout very positive, said the facts of what occurred, and focused on 3 concerns:

1) Supervision
2) Staff overreacted, did not listen to her or treat her with respect
3) Pushing for private information

I kept myself completely out of it. While I don't think they handled "me" correctly, I thought it would get watered down or too emotional if I went there.

I closed it with saying that I want to continue to have a relationship there, but I need to feel like she is safe physically, spiritually, and emotionally. I did include one strong emotional nugget at the end which was that, underneath everything else, DD is just an 8 year old little girl who is desperate to be accepted for who she is, and that is not the message she got this week. And said I wanted them to look into it and respond, included my phone number, etc. And sent it to the VP. No one else had an available email addy who seemed like they would be an appropriate person to address.

[frozenpeas]

You go mama, way to stand up for your girl! What a great example you're setting for her. I know that wasn't easy for you to do & I'm proud of you! (Is that weird of me to say?)

[freezorburn]

akafred you are awesome.

[akafred]

Just talked to the VP that I emailed. He had read the incident reports and email but had not talked to the counselor or director. Here is what he said:

1) They "try to" have an adult always in the room. Hmmm...
2) He is sorry that DD felt that she was in trouble, he saw nothing in her write ups to indicate that DD was singled out or in trouble specifically, and that isn't what they strive for,
3) Sometimes kids will make all kinds of excuses when they do make bad choices. For example, a kid will say he hit another kid because he is in foster care and they talk to the parents and that the child has always lived with biological parents. So they address it when it comes up. I told him that I can appreciate on one hand that they want to be sensitive to any special needs the child has due to medical situation or background, but they need more training around this kind of thing.

He was a nice guy and definitely thanked me for letting him know so they can address issues and make sure situations are handled appropriately in the future, but I didn't get a lot of confidence built up from the convo. Not exactly sure what I expected though.

[mustardseed2007]

akafred, is he going to talk to the teacher and call you again?

[akafred]

Aug 11, 2017 16:48:17 GMT -5 mustardseed2007 said:

akafred, is he going to talk to the teacher and call you again?

He is going to talk to her. She asked me if I wanted to have another sitdown conversation with her, but I didn't think that would be helpful. So I don't know what the next steps are.

[freezorburn]

Hmm.. the response sounds like the VP is trying to be diplomatic but maybe could use some help regarding next steps. I don't necessarily know what those would be, but this has got me thinking about the different cultures we've encountered as DS has attended several different camps this summer.

For the most part, we've been very lucky. I think in large part that's because the first few camps that he attended were connected to his preschool, which is Waldorf-inspired. So even if his art camp and his outdoor camp had different curricula (curriculi?), there were some familiar things about the setting and the structure of the day.

But this summer we've also branched out from the preschool camps to camps that cater to older kids, and DS is on the young end for those. I was super-impressed with the skateboard camp but felt meh about the cycling camp. And the short version of the differences between these two camps is that the skateboard camp is run by an organization that has a clearly articulated vision/mission that has to do with gender equity, inclusion, learning to get back up after a fall, etc. And that translates to how the counselors interact with the kids and how they might handle problems that might arise. The cycling camp, on the other hand, is really just teaching kids cycling skills. It was okay, but I didn't feel confident that if an issue had arisen with DS, that they would have known how to deal with it.

Seeing the differences between these two camps makes me wonder if qualities that I feel are missing in the cycling camp and be taught or coached. Not to mention, what would it take for them to be open to this kind of coaching. I think about the parenting seminars that I've taken ever since DS got his ASD diagnosis, and I think for people who are running programs that cater to certain age groups, there must be people who can offer consults and training to help people working with kids, do their jobs better. DS goes to gymnastics and so far, thankfully no issues, but to me it's clear that the coaches are gymnasts first and they don't necessarily know much about early childhood development or how to deal with behavioral issues. But they run all these classes and camps and even a preschool. And probably as kids get older and to higher skill levels, there's probably some self-selection that goes on, so they don't feel a need to really engage with perceived problems. They might feel it's easier to wish problems away, rather than look outward for help. So I guess if this had happened to us, I would probably be asking if they would be open to working with a consultant on a limited basis. Possibly DS's ABA therapist, but I might also talk to some education consultants and psychologists that we know and have worked with in the past, to see if they have ideas.

[akafred]

Yes, freezorburn, I totally agree about the differences in camps. And this is why I even said anything, because usually (at least in terms of classes where I have seen them interact with her) they are much better about being patient and tolerant. She certainly isn't at a high level; she actually just can't concentrate or follow rules well enough to probably ever get there. She is physically very strong and has a lot of energy obv, but the focus thing keeps her from advancing. So we switched her over to ninja warrior which is not a competition thing and there is only one level so she just has to have fun and improve on her own without feeling bad that other kids are moving up and she isn't. BUT they hire on younger people for camp counselors (former athletes there, usually), and probably have limited training.

We sent her to one camp last summer that was a complete disaster for her. They treated her like she was a problem child so she acted like a problem child. I picked her up early every day as she was texting me (they encouraged kids to bring iPods and had wifi) and FaceTiming me in tears. They just were not patient or kind. She will never go back there, but with the gymnastics place that is not how they usually are. They are usually so much better. I see kids there with apparent ASD and DS attending camp and classes, kids I would peg as ADHD and LD, etc.

There isn't a whole lot they can do for next steps with my situation. My 3 points were having an adult present (which I am NOT satisfied with his "try to" comment but perhaps he will come back and say it is a hard and fast policy now), DD was not treated appropriately (this is hard because it is "she said, she said", but maybe once he speaks to the director he'll have more to say or something?), and the personal info (which he probably won't do much with). I don't want to be "that mom" and I don't want DD to get special treatment there. I just want everyone to be treated the way I have observed most of the coaches treat her in the past. I don't really know how they can show me that will happen.

Probably the ultimate decision will be Charlotte's on whether she wants to go back or not.

[xctsclrx]

I think you said it best. Charlotte knows you are in her corner and will have her back. I would let her make this decision with the knowledge that you support either choice.

[mustardseed2007]

akafred, For me, I could see sending my child back there, but not with that counselor. Is that an option?

[akafred]

Aug 13, 2017 13:56:43 GMT -5 mustardseed2007 said:

akafred, For me, I could see sending my child back there, but not with that counselor. Is that an option?

I'm not really sure. I will ask if he calls again.

[2chatter]

I think kids owning their experiences is great. My children surprise me with what they tolerate - and it has definitely over the years helped them identify what they won't tolerate or don't enjoy (I am looking at you, snotty club soccer coach - DD wanted to do it, and despite my reservations, we did it. She learned that she doesn't like being treated as surplus, and that sometimes being competitive doesn't matter as much as surrounding yourself with positive people). KUP!!