Please help. Something happened at camp yesterday and I do not think it was handled appropriately. I have spoken with a few trusted friends that I know would give it to me straight and from various parenting perspectives and they all said they don't think DD really did anything wrong. I don't want to go into too many details. Anyway let's just say DD's reaction wasn't ideal but it was not "bad" and her motives were pure.
The problem is the counselor and the camp director treated DD like she is a criminal. In fact they told her she was in trouble. When I arrived they gave me the talking to and definitely talked down to me as though DD had done something horrible. When I got there DD was curled up in a ball crying. Also DD tried to explain (and yes make excuses) and in so doing she revealed some personal info that is none of the camp director's business, but she was pushing for more details on that. She also twisted my words when I tried to explain. It was not a good scene. Honestly it wasn't until we were walking out of there that I realized that DD didn't actually DO anything wrong. Hard to explain without details. But she didn't. Reaction wasn't perfect but she didn't initiate anything or hurt anyone. I'm trying to make an analogy but coming up empty.
Anyway, we have been at this gymnastics place in some capacity (gymnastics classes, ninja warrior classes, day camps) since DD was 3 years old, and I hate to walk out of there entirely. 99% of my observations of their interactions with DD are very positive. In fact often they are more patient with her than I would be even when she is being a real challenge. But this camp director really seemed to have it in for her and really did not seem to treat her properly IMO. They didn't listen to her side and told her she was in trouble, etc. I feel like the head should know. Side note: The director position apparently is a day to day job of some kind. She mentioned she would be there today (DD was supposed to go today but we decided to keep her home with DH instead) but she would not be directing; someone else would. So I don't know what is up with that. But I would like to speak with whoever is above her. At the very least this one person obviously hates my kid and that isn't cool.
But I hate this kind of conversation and I don't have a clue where to start. The idea of even calling to find out who the right person to talk with is makes me a little sick. Help?
Can you email? When I had a situation at DD's daycare that I felt wasn't handled correctly I emailed under the guise of "wanting to know both sides of the story."
Is she going back tomorrow? What time is this camp? Is there an owner or executive director name on their website? Who do you deal with during the year and can you reach that person to ask them who owns the place?
If it were me, I would call ahead and ask for an appt with the owner, or say the same when you get there. May be tough to get a one-on-one of more than 5mins though if they don't know you're coming because they won't have planned for staff coverage.
I'd open with something like "we need to talk about what happened on Tuesday. We've had a really positive experience here for a number of years and the incident with Staff Member Name was out of the norm. I'm concerned about what kind of interactions DD can expect to have with this person in future and I want to get on the same page about how incidents are handled."
Not that I've had a lot of these encounters (like, three, maybe) but I try to keep myself calm and focused by repeating "I am INFO SEEKING" in my head. I think it helps me maintain a more disarming approach and get better info.
Good luck. Once again, I'm so sorry she had to go through that.
Today was the last day of camp. She was scheduled to attend but my H and I decided that we would keep her home today. He took the afternoon off (he works second shift so already had the morning off and went in at 6pm). We know DD's anxiety and we're afraid she would have a rough day...assuming there was no other fallout.
Normally we just deal with whoever the coach of her class is, and if we need to pay or sign up for something special we just talk to someone at the front desk.
Funny (?) story: The very first time DD went to camp there was 5 years ago almost exactly. When I went to pick her up they told me they needed to speak to me in the office. This, I think, was the main really head person. DH said goodbye and left and DD wanted to say goodbye one more time and walked out the front door. The woman was like, "We have three layers of security to prevent this." So DD has caused them problems since day 1.
I think you more need to know to shore yourself up than what to say. You know what was wrong. Here are my things, since hard conversations about my kids send me into all sorts of tailspin:
1. Think of yourself as an advocate. Not a mom. It gives you a teeny bit of separation, and for me at least it lets me hold myself together. I imagine fighting for a client instead of my kid. 2. Plan the points you need to get across (this felt like a personal attack, it wasn't handled well, even if the allegations were absolutely true they don't add up to anything wrong, a staff member was prying for highly personal information, and there was absolutely no judgment or compassion shown to a child). Write them down if necessary. 3. For me, an email or phone call is better than in person. I am likely to barely be holding back tears, so being there in person is just an added layer of stress for me. With this, I would probably send an email followed up with a phone call. In fact, it's probably good to state in the email that you will be following up with a call.
I think you more need to know to shore yourself up than what to say. You know what was wrong. Here are my things, since hard conversations about my kids send me into all sorts of tailspin:
1. Think of yourself as an advocate. Not a mom. It gives you a teeny bit of separation, and for me at least it lets me hold myself together. I imagine fighting for a client instead of my kid. 2. Plan the points you need to get across (this felt like a personal attack, it wasn't handled well, even if the allegations were absolutely true they don't add up to anything wrong, a staff member was prying for highly personal information, and there was absolutely no judgment or compassion shown to a child). Write them down if necessary. 3. For me, an email or phone call is better than in person. I am likely to barely be holding back tears, so being there in person is just an added layer of stress for me. With this, I would probably send an email followed up with a phone call. In fact, it's probably good to state in the email that you will be following up with a call.
And I'm so sorry. This sounds awful.
Thank you so much. Those are 100% the points I would want to get across.
I understand that you need to have this conversation with someone higher up, and I too prefer e-mail to start with anyway.
I would consider pulling her from that camp based on the way they treated you and her. I get that it's in general a really great camp, but I think I would be done after that kind of treatment.
First and foremost if they have child curled up in a ball crying and they are still going at her I feel like that person should never work children. I don't care if she threw a rock at a kid. At that point you have to wait until everyone has calmed down.
Without knowing the details I don't think it is wrong for a camp councilor to tell a child they are in trouble if they are. Even if she was back talking them and they sent her to the office because she was in trouble. That's the only thing that you have said that I am a little "eh" on. Every thing else I want to burn down.
Now the way they talked to you and to her. Prying more and more information out of her is so wrong. OMG you are a better person then I am because if an adult tried to give me "talking to" I would have had it out right then and there. Probably not the most mature or productive way to handle the situation.
Sorry I am not more help. Just wanted to validate your feelings that what they did was wrong on so many levels.
I understand that you need to have this conversation with someone higher up, and I too prefer e-mail to start with anyway.
I would consider pulling her from that camp based on the way they treated you and her. I get that it's in general a really great camp, but I think I would be done after that kind of treatment.
Summer is over . The county where the camp is has kids coming in today for the first day. We are going to Myrtle Beach for Fall Break so the next time she would possibly go is winter break. She is not currently enrolled in classes; I was wanting to do a parent's night out but probably will just wait til they start doing them at school in Sept. We will see what their response is before deciding about winter break. The bad news is they are always open a few days earlier and a few days later than the rest of the camps, so we usually have a few days the first and last weeks of summer to bridge the gap before school starts. Plus DD's school somehow manages to get 1-2 weeks extra summer break compared to the nearby counties.
First and foremost if they have child curled up in a ball crying and they are still going at her I feel like that person should never work children. I don't care if she threw a rock at a kid. At that point you have to wait until everyone has calmed down.
Without knowing the details I don't think it is wrong for a camp councilor to tell a child they are in trouble if they are. Even if she was back talking them and they sent her to the office because she was in trouble. That's the only thing that you have said that I am a little "eh" on. Every thing else I want to burn down.
Now the way they talked to you and to her. Prying more and more information out of her is so wrong. OMG you are a better person then I am because if an adult tried to give me "talking to" I would have had it out right then and there. Probably not the most mature or productive way to handle the situation.
Sorry I am not more help. Just wanted to validate your feelings that what they did was wrong on so many levels.
It's jus that I don't think she should have been in trouble. She didn't actually do anything. Hard to explain without details. Let's use as an example that the kids were playing in a creek and another kid dropped a salamander on DD's head and DD screamed "Oh hell, you dropped that on my head" (or other not really but kinda bad word) and ran away from the area where the kids are supposed to stay while screaming. And that her yelling and running caused the other kid to feel embarrassed. Poor analogy, sorry. But they treated the one who accidentally dropped the salamander apologetically and treated DD like she was a bully when all she did is overreact and act dramatically and embarrass someone who made a mistake. Such a bad analogy. Sigh.
Anyway while she was talking to me, I really felt like DD must have done something awful. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. It wasn't like this is the first time I have ever been pulled aside at school or camp to report an incident like this. And usually DD actually did do something wrong. It literally wasn't until we walked downstairs and DD went to the bathroom and we held hands walking outside and I was thinking about what I was going to say privately to DD and whether I should go ahead and take her to the trampoline place as I had planned and take her to the adoption group we had that night, wondering if she should be "rewarded" with the trampoline and wondering if she could be successful at adoption group that I realized there was no reason to punish her with taking away the trampoline park because she didn't actually really do anything. Also thinking about what to tell DH who can be harsh when she screws up at camps etc and I was like, there is no reason to be upset with her. Then at the trampoline place as I watched DD for an hour I was thinking about it and thinking about how they handled it. I texted a friend who used to be a Girl Scout camp counselor and who is a stricter parent than I am, I texted a friend who is a very hippy parent but used to teach ballet classes, I texted another conservative parent who has a child with similar issues to mine (ADHD, anxiety), and all of them said the same thing. So I feel kind of stupid but I have not really been in this situation before. Usually even if the other adult doesn't handle it the best, DD still did something clearly wrong.
akafred, using your example it should have been more of a hey "DD" we don't run off from the group. Next time run to a councilor for help getting the stuff out of the hair. We can't have you running off you might get hurt or lost vs. a "I told you not to run off now you are in trouble" type of reaction.
I would agree with that. I would freak out if someone dropped a bug in my hair on purpose or not. Language is a different matter at least in my house, but that is my house.
I definitely agree with starting with an email - it'll give you a chance to lay it out in a level-headed way, and then you have your talking points for the in person conversation. Regardless of the exact situation, people who are in charge of kids should be able to de-escalate and deal with something in an appropriate manner. There is no reason for a child to be crying in a ball because of how the adult they are supposed to trust is treating them. Full stop. I'd focus on that, more than the fact that you think your DD was wrongfully accused. I think the bigger issue is not defending your DD's innocence, but letting them know that the way the situation was handled was completely wrong and inappropriate.
Post by erinshelley21 on Aug 10, 2017 8:43:03 GMT -5
Based on the example given, I'd be extremely pissed that they had my kid curled up in a ball crying for reacting to something that obviously bothers her. As an adult, if I saw a mouse run through a room where I'm supposed to be sitting quietly, like a class, (we all know how I reacted when there was a mouse in my office a couple months ago), I would have a hard time keeping my cool.
I wouldn't want to have a conversation because I don't do well with that stuff. I cry when I'm angry and would have tears in my eyes before I even walked in the door.
I would end up talking myself out of talking to the camp people and deal with this within the family. Using it as a lesson that some people are just assholes and not very understanding.
Based on the example given, I'd be extremely pissed that they had my kid curled up in a ball crying for reacting to something that obviously bothers her. As an adult, if I saw a mouse run through a room where I'm supposed to be sitting quietly, like a class, (we all know how I reacted when there was a mouse in my office a couple months ago), I would have a hard time keeping my cool.
I wouldn't want to have a conversation because I don't do well with that stuff. I cry when I'm angry and would have tears in my eyes before I even walked in the door.
I would end up talking myself out of talking to the camp people and deal with this within the family. Using it as a lesson that some people are just assholes and not very understanding.
I'm the same way. But I do need to advocate for DD. Also we have gone there for 5 years and they have always treated DD with respect. They are supposed to be a Christian organization, actually. It's a gymnastics place but they have a Christian theme and Biblical quotes on the walls and they say a little prayer before lessons. I don't feel like this was handled with the kind of respect for diversity and inclusion that I would hope to see there. And I am hoping it was just a bad day for all and not indicative of how all future interactions would go for DD. Which is why I am going to try not to justify myself out of talking to them.
Post by HeartofCheese on Aug 10, 2017 9:08:05 GMT -5
When I'm emotionally invested, I also get a ton of anxiety about confrontation. When it's come to my kids, though, I force myself to do it. I know tears will come, my voice will definitely crack, my throat will catch, my nose will run, and I will show many, many signs of weakness and over-emotion - but I tell myself that I will have to just keep talking through it until I am heard. And eventually, the confidence comes and then I calm down. If, before then, anyone starts to treat me like I'm unstable, I say in my cracked voice, choking on spit, etc., "I'm crying b/c these conversations are extremely hard for me and make me nervous, but this is very important and this is what I want done." I think when you focus on the truth, you find your strength.
That said, I would also email first if I could or just wanted info. If I felt strongly that a particular thing be done, then I would force myself to call to show strength.
ETA: Just read your update. Seriously? That's all? That is 100% nothing. I'd be yelling.
1) That she saw what she did? 2) That she said what she saw? 3) That she turned out the light?
Because 1)obviously wasn't her fault. Because 2)was simply stating a fact. (But I can certainly understand a counselor explaining to C-NOT SCOLDING- that the other child could be embarrassed by that).
Because 3)was her trying to help the other child (and other children) to avoid further awkwardness. (But definitely worth a reminder that turning out the lights could be unsafe).
Post by judyblume14 on Aug 10, 2017 9:19:37 GMT -5
Also, whether she said "oh my!" or said what the witness said she did? Who effing cares. It's no foul language, and absolutely an appropriate thing to sad (once we get past that it could be embarrassing for the other child... but we're talking about 7-10 year olds. They have a hard time understanding things like potentially-embarrassing-someone-with-your-words)
Also, whether she said "oh my!" or said what the witness said she did? Who effing cares. It's no foul language, and absolutely an appropriate thing to sad (once we get past that it could be embarrassing for the other child... but we're talking about 7-10 year olds. They have a hard time understanding things like potentially-embarrassing-someone-with-your-words)
Right? Especially right in that moment. Gah it makes me so upset to think about her balling up crying because they told her she was in trouble over it all and them not listening to her explanation of why she reacted the way they did. And when I told the director that we have been working on boundaries related to what happened, she pounced on it immediately and acted like DD had done something actually BAD in that area and was a repeat offender or something.
Post by justcheckingin73 on Aug 10, 2017 9:42:15 GMT -5
I'm so upset for you and your DD. It was a complete overreaction on their part and they should not have treated her as if she was in trouble. Pulling her aside and letting her know a better way to deal with that type of situation would have been more appropriate.
Post by mustardseed2007 on Aug 10, 2017 9:54:47 GMT -5
This isn't even a scandalizing story. Seriously.
That counselor is stupid. It's not like your DD peaked in the girl's shower or something. And she's 8. Good lord.
You definitely need to be impassive and an advocate. Everything mommyatty said. I would compose with the "we love you guys, we have a great history" as an intro, an then explain what you understand happened and explain that if that is what happened, you don't think it was handled appropriately. Then I would say that you want to follow up with a phone call with the right person.
Before the phone call write down what you want to say. Then have the phone call with them. Your main points in the phone call are:
1) Is my understanding wrong in anyway 2) If my understanding is correct, then it was handled wholly inappropriately and here's why: a) DD did nothing wrong b) The counselor showed a lack of respect and empathy to the child c) The counselor showed a lack of respect to me d) The counselor's method of handling this exacerbated this situation, turning it from a chaotic situation into a charged situation where my child was completely inconsolable and the other child involved probably felt worse because of the circus that was created. e) XYZ 3) If there is something I'm missing, then the counselor was still wrong because: points b-d + XYZ 4) This threatens our ability to be able to continue with you so we need to get this resolved. I need the following from you: a), b), c)
And don't apologize. That's the biggest thing I think we women do when we're telling someone they need to own their mistake and it confuses the message. People walk away thinking we are ok with something when it's not ok.
IMO I believe her heart was in the right place. She noticed something spoke without thinking HELLO she is EIGHT. I am sure my 12 year old would have done the same thing. Then she went to fix the situation. To save the girl anymore embarrassment. I don't think this is anywhere outside the norm for an eight year old even if she does have ADHD.
That is ALL she did. Except freak out and cry and not tell her side of the story in a linear and cohesive way. Because she is 8 and they told her she is in trouble.
She did nothing wrong. I don't even understand why the camp would need to scold her or say she's in trouble? Not her fault that she saw what she did. The counselor made this worse and probably created more embarrassment for the other girl than your DD. I would have to say something to them too.