Arpaio pardon bad news for Mueller

[turnipthebeet]

This is frightening. I think it was alluded to in the other Arpaio thread, but this is a big deal.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/08/trump_s_arpaio_pardon_is_a_bad_sign_for_mueller_s_investigation.html

And here is the frightening thing: the Mueller investigation has been serving subpoenas through a grand jury, most recently for firms associated with former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort. What would happen if subjects of Mueller’s subpoenas don’t comply? They would be held in contempt, just as Arpaio was. And we’ve seen how little respect Trump has for judges who hold his friends in contempt. (Michael Flynn has been subpoenaed by the Senate, which would have to find him in contempt of Congress.) What about Trump’s other associates who may soon be pulled into Mueller’s probe? Why should they cooperate with the investigation? If they do, crimes might be revealed, making it more politically difficult for Trump to pardon them. If they don’t cooperate, they will merely be held in contempt of court—allowing Trump to step in with a pardon, publicly dismissing the charge as a witch hunt.

[MixedBerryJam]

My sister's theory (I'm not sure I'm getting all the details right but it's something like this.) Trump pardons everyone soon for everything, putting the kaibosh on Mueller's investigation. Then Congress calls witnesses who, having received pardons, have no reason to cooperate and even possibly lie because that's part of the backroom deal Trump made with them. Then they're held in contempt of Congress, then pardoned again by Trump, putting the kaibosh on those investigations. The end.

[turnipthebeet]

All the while, trump and breitbart/fox keep decrying this as a dem/senate R witch hunt, convincing the yokels that live all throughout America that Trump & Co are the victims in all of this.

[Nightlight]

There is still the NY investigation. Trump can't issue pardons for that.

The Investigations Trump Can’t Stop

The state investigations have been developing for months, largely overshadowed by probes by Congress, the FBI and the Justice Department. If state and local prosecutors lose confidence in their federal counterparts, they could become more aggressive, legal experts say.

“If they think the federal government is not enforcing the law, they will step in,” said Caroline Fredrickson, president of the American Constitution Society, a liberal legal organization.

[miniroller]

Aug 26, 2017 19:05:53 GMT -5 MixedBerryJam said:

My sister's theory (I'm not sure I'm getting all the details right but it's something like this.) Trump pardons everyone soon for everything, putting the kaibosh on Mueller's investigation. Then Congress calls witnesses who, having received pardons, have no reason to cooperate and even possibly lie because that's part of the backroom deal Trump made with them. Then they're held in contempt of Congress, then pardoned again by Trump, putting the kaibosh on those investigations. The end.

I hate that I don't think they'd even necessarily be held in contempt! Subservient R congressmen would all scratch their heads, shuffle their feet, & guess they must not have the information the Librul Media is trying to convince the public they have...
*Certainly this all depends on their reelection prediction feelings, because phuck my constituents 😢

[ECB]

JFC.

[Jalapeñomel]

Aug 26, 2017 19:12:13 GMT -5 Nightlight said:

There is still the NY investigation. Trump can't issue pardons for that.

The Investigations Trump Can’t Stop

The state investigations have been developing for months, largely overshadowed by probes by Congress, the FBI and the Justice Department. If state and local prosecutors lose confidence in their federal counterparts, they could become more aggressive, legal experts say.

“If they think the federal government is not enforcing the law, they will step in,” said Caroline Fredrickson, president of the American Constitution Society, a liberal legal organization.

What can this investigation do to save is from this?

[imimahoney]

My god, nothing can stop him.

[winecat]

Aug 26, 2017 20:52:07 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

My god, nothing can stop him.

For real.  

If 45 can't be impeached for this; for pardoning someone when they violated the Constitution when he swore to "ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States," then what do we have to protect us from a fascist dictator?    

He's not fulfilling the duties of his office.  

[Deleted]

All I can think about is blow jobs in the Oval Office and that undoubtedly articles of impeachment would have been brought against HRC by now for emails or whatever had she won. I don't even know how bad it has to get for the GOP to move to impeach Trump. :/

[bohemianmango]

Where are the checks and balances here? How can he have the power to pardon in an investigation involving himself?

[isabel]

Aug 26, 2017 21:14:48 GMT -5 bohemianmango said:

Where are the checks and balances here? How can he have the power to pardon in an investigation involving himself?

There apparently aren't any. Seriously. He has gotten away with so many things that I would have thought he couldn't get away with. Our government is not set up for someone like him.

[OscarQ]

Aug 26, 2017 21:14:48 GMT -5 bohemianmango said:

Where are the checks and balances here? How can he have the power to pardon in an investigation involving himself?

I believe he can't pardon himself. But Pence could if he became president (Ford pardoned Nixon shortly after becoming POTUS).

The only other check is Congress yanking its collective head out of its ass and impeaching the SOB. I don't think that'll happen.

Beyond that the other way out is the 25th amendment but none of these rats are invoking that option.

SCOTUS doesn't come into play here unless I'm missing something. This is all with his team and Congress.

[mskitkat]

I am choosing to believe Mueller is well aware of this potential and has a secret plan.

[bronxgirl]

I'm so anxious right now.

[sushi]

Aug 26, 2017 21:02:25 GMT -5 winecat said:

Aug 26, 2017 20:52:07 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

My god, nothing can stop him.

For real.  

If 45 can't be impeached for this; for pardoning someone when they violated the Constitution when he swore to "ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States," then what do we have to protect us from a fascist dictator? 

He's not fulfilling the duties of his office.  

Against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

But who cares when the constitution is toilet paper? I know way too many military who have made that oath, multiple times, who agree with tangerine turd.

[curbsideprophet]

Arpaio Pardon is an impeachable offense

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/08/trump_s_pardon_of_joe_arpaio_is_an_impeachable_offense.html

[nikki25]

This is when I hope Obama has been working some Constitutional Law magic in his spare time with the dems to get this fucker out.

[bex]

Aug 26, 2017 20:52:07 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

My god, nothing can stop him.

This is what's starting to get to me as well.  I hope the Mueller investigation bears fruit quickly  but I also know that these things take time. But then I'm like, if he's just going to pardon everyone anyway, and the House isn't going to do anything....

Deray McKesson said this on an episode of Lovett or Leave It a month or two ago, where basically we have the checks and balances. The constitution provides them; there are ways to stop him. But the constitution depends on Congress being awake.

At other times I think they're all going down, and Trump will be impeached quickly and thus lose the ability to pardon.  so my pessimism isn't across the board.

But sometimes it really does seem like he just can do whatever the hell he wants.  

[Jalapeñomel]

At some point in time Congress is going to see that Trump is not going to promote their agenda how they see it, right? Because this is our only hope for the GOP to do anything.

[bex]

Aug 27, 2017 7:42:24 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

At some point in time Congress is going to see that Trump is not going to promote their agenda how they see it, right? Because this is our only hope for the GOP to do anything.

I think some of them have already realized that, but not enough.

I also think the Republicans probably feel that impeaching a president of their own party would kill the party for years to come. I don't really think that, since the republican party has sunk its roots deep into some areas, but I can see why the Rs may think that.

I think every time Trump tries to distance himself from congressional Rs, from the establishment politicians, etc he may actually be hurting himself and increasing his chances of impeachment because the more he does that, the more it becomes a matter of "impeaching Trump" and not "impeaching the republican president," if that makes sense.

At this point though I do not think he will be impeached,  no matter what comes out of the Mueller investigation. A major swing in the House towards the Dems increases the possibility but we have to see what happens with the investigation.

[sofamonkey]

I mean, even spineless Ryan spoke out against this pardon. I think he's doing some sort of rent the runway type thing for a spine. Surely he won't have it all the time, but he can pick one out and in about 2-3 days, he could have one for up to a week.

[carmenere]

Aug 27, 2017 7:42:24 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

At some point in time Congress is going to see that Trump is not going to promote their agenda how they see it, right? Because this is our only hope for the GOP to do anything.

I think it will depend on how the debt ceiling, budget and tax reform goes. If it's a debacle like healthcare was with a complete lack of leadership from the President, they might turn on him. I don't think impeachment is happening though. If anything the GOP might support a primary challenger in 2020.

[isabel]

I didn't see this posted in the pardon thread. Did you guys read this? Holy hell. I knew this guy was bad, but I didn't realize the extent of his crimes.

static.currentaffairs.org/2017/08/wait-do-people-actually-know-just-how-evil-this-man-is

[turnipthebeet]

So question. Obviously one part of being pardoned is that you are accepting guilt over whatever you are being pardoned from. So while these people may skate by from a legal standpoint, it seems like anyone who wants to continue to have a career/reputation would still be better off making a deal rather than accept a pardon.

My question is: do we know of anything that sessions has done that would be worth taking a pardon for? He recused himself early on and also refused when trump asked him to drop the arpaio case. It seems to me like he is working to stay above the law, and it also seems like he knows a lot of shit that trump is pulling/has tried to pull. I wonder if he would be one that would work with Mueller vs take the pardon.

I may be forgetting something that Sessions has done. And I'm not at all saying that that piece of actual garbage is good in any way. I'm just looking for some other angels. Obv Mueller is light years ahead of me. Lol.

[sporklemotion]

turnipthebeet, I think that Sessions had some meetings after taking on a role in the Trumpiverse with a Russian that he didn't disclose. There were doubts about the veracity of his claim that he did this as part of his role on the Senste Foreign Relations Committee (I think), since no other senators had held similar meetings. I think that's when he recused himself.

[anlo]

Aug 27, 2017 16:30:36 GMT -5 isabel said:

I didn't see this posted in the pardon thread. Did you guys read this? Holy hell. I knew this guy was bad, but I didn't realize the extent of his crimes.

static.currentaffairs.org/2017/08/wait-do-people-actually-know-just-how-evil-this-man-is

My god, that is absolutely sickening.

[isabel]

Aug 27, 2017 19:27:49 GMT -5 anlo said:

Aug 27, 2017 16:30:36 GMT -5 isabel said:

I didn't see this posted in the pardon thread. Did you guys read this? Holy hell. I knew this guy was bad, but I didn't realize the extent of his crimes.

static.currentaffairs.org/2017/08/wait-do-people-actually-know-just-how-evil-this-man-is

My god, that is absolutely sickening.

I felt nauseous at various points while reading it. It's seriously appalling.

[lilac05]

Aug 26, 2017 20:52:07 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

My god, nothing can stop him.

ONE Republican with a spine can stop this.  One.

I posted this in a different thread, but if just one GOP Senator would actually DO something, I think this whole thing will come crashing down like a house of cards.  No one can actually want to be associated with his mess right now, but no one is willing to say, "NO MORE."

Whoever that would happen to be would either 1) be a national hero and have a real chance at POTUS soon or 2) Be done forever in the political world, but make a pretty penny off of books, interviews, and speaking engagements & would never have to work again anyway.  I think #1 is far more likely.

Just one.  

And yet, no one.

[curbsideprophet]

Didn't Sessions lie under oath?