Love ‘The Simpsons’? Let’s Talk About Apu

[mbcdefg]

Anyone else planning to watch this?

You Love ‘The Simpsons’? Then Let’s Talk About Apu

mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/the-problem-with-apu-the-simpsons.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/

“I hate Apu,” the actor Kal Penn says in a new documentary about the penny-pinching, Squishee-slinging, thickly accented convenience store owner on one of the most celebrated TV shows in history. “And because of that, I dislike ‘The Simpsons.’”

The feelings of South Asian Americans toward the character and the show he inhabits are the focus of “The Problem with Apu,” a documentary debuting Nov. 19 on truTV. The brainchild of the actor and standup comic Hari Kondabolu, a lifelong lover of “The Simpsons,” the film wrestles with how a show praised for its incisive humor — over the years, it has explored issues like homophobia and political corruption — could resort to such a charged stereotype. Making matters worse is the fact that the Indian character is voiced by a non-Indian (albeit an Emmy-winning) actor, Hank Azaria.

...

Working with the director Michael Melamedoff, the film crew began production in April 2016, greenlit by truTV as part of its shift to comedy programming. To tackle the project, he enlisted some high-powered help. In one sequence, the actor Aziz Ansari (“Master of None”) describes being in a car with his dad when a man drives up and asks them where the nearest Quik-E-Mart is. Dr. Vivek Murthy, the 19th surgeon general of the United States, talks about enduring the taunts of an Apu-imitating bully in the seventh grade. And Maulik Pancholy (“30 Rock”) recounts how much he hated going into 7-Eleven stores as a kid, lest his friends see an Indian store clerk and start doing “the Apu thing.”

[noodleoo]

Yes, I saw a commercial for this and plan to watch it. Apu is a horrible stereotype and I can’t tell you the number of times in college people mocked me with his “thank you, come again” thinking they were hilarious. It is not funny to say that to an Indian person.

[bronxgirl]

I love Hari Kondabolu and I'm so glad he's taking on this issue. I really want to watch this.

[LoveTrains]

Hari is hilarious and I'm also glad to see him taking on this issue. I wish him much success in life. I met him many years ago and he was always nice and funny.

[simpsongal]

Wapo had a video teaser for it, definitely interested.

[Dumbledork]

I agree Apu is a problem, and I don’t think he’s the only one on the show.

[msmerymac]

They've been promoting it on the Code Switch podcast. I think the newest episode interviews Hari Kondabolu.

[raangoli]

I follow Hari on FB and he’s been getting a lot of good press. I want to watch but I don’t think we get the channel

[karinothing]

Nov 12, 2017 20:19:16 GMT -5 Dumbledork said:

I agree Apu is a problem, and I don’t think he’s the only one on the show.

Like bumblebee man or whatever his name is.

[mbcdefg]

Nov 12, 2017 20:51:09 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Nov 12, 2017 20:19:16 GMT -5 Dumbledork said:

I agree Apu is a problem, and I don’t think he’s the only one on the show.

Like bumblebee man or whatever his name is.

Yes. He’s also played by Hank Azaria.

ETA: Bumblebee Man is a direct parody of Chespirito.

Dr. Hibbert and Carl (Black characters) are played by white men. The characters themselves aren’t offensive, but still. The voice cast is basically just six white people.

[lilac05]

We don't have cable, so I'll have to hope it comes out on Netflix or something else.

Dr. Nick is another one to add to the list.

I think a lot of this is reflective of some of the changes we have made in the time since The Simpsons first created these characters, at least in television shows. Of course, we still have a LONG way to go and Simpsons should have changed the characters over the years. When this first aired in 1989, a lot more racist stuff was deemed "acceptable" in the name of comedy. Over the years, that has changed quite a bit, but The Simpsons seem to have been grandfathered in. It's a good example, IMO, of how people miss overt racism because "it's always been that way." I think a new show would get immediate negative responses from people & even studios, but most people don't even seem to think twice about The Simpsons. It will be interesting to see if the show responds and what they will do about it.

[mbcdefg]

Nov 12, 2017 22:26:06 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

We don't have cable, so I'll have to hope it comes out on Netflix or something else.

Dr. Nick is another one to add to the list.

I think a lot of this is reflective of some of the changes we have made in the time since The Simpsons first created these characters, at least in television shows. Of course, we still have a LONG way to go and Simpsons should have changed the characters over the years. When this first aired in 1989, a lot more racist stuff was deemed "acceptable" in the name of comedy. Over the years, that has changed quite a bit, but The Simpsons seem to have been grandfathered in. It's a good example, IMO, of how people miss overt racism because "it's always been that way." I think a new show would get immediate negative responses from people & even studios, but most people don't even seem to think twice about The Simpsons. It will be interesting to see if the show responds and what they will do about it.

I haven't heard anyone mention Dr. Nick before ... has a specific culture/ethnicity been cited for him? 

I think The Simpsons sort of tried to redeem themselves with Apu - there's an episode where he was the star of a bachelor auction because he has a PhD, owns his own business, likes to cook, enjoys conversation and "building furniture and then having a discussion about where it could be placed in a room." They also made him the chief of the volunteer fire department, the top student at his undergraduate college in India (although they threw in a cliched "India has a huge population" joke with that one), and pointed out that he stayed in the U.S. after attending graduate school because (a) he loved the U.S. and (b) he felt it wasn't right to leave without first paying off his student loans. 

But, yeah, *toolittletoolate* when they established him as a white guy doing an offensive impression of a 7-11 owner. They could've easily done all this good stuff without being asses about his character in the first place.

[raangoli]

I've seen the argument that the Simpsons characters are all caricatures that are exaggerated. Like the examples mentioned above, or like Chief Quimby who is drawn with a pig nose and obviously loves donuts, or the terribly crooked Mayor (whose name I forget because it's been a decade at least since I've watched).

But I agree with lilac05 that at some point in it's history the Simsons got grandfathered in - is that because we think if it as a cartoon or like she said, because it's "always been that way"?

I feel like I am (obviously) biased because I am Indian and I've loved finally being able to watch TV and see people that look like me in leading roles and making a name for themselves as something other than a stereotypical convenience store worker, cabbie, or bit role.

ETA: I looked it up and we do get the channel. I am so pumped to watch this!

[karinothing]

Nov 13, 2017 11:24:16 GMT -5 raangoli said:

I've seen the argument that the Simpsons characters are all caricatures that are exaggerated. Like the examples mentioned above, or like Chief Quimby who is drawn with a pig nose and obviously loves donuts, or the terribly crooked Mayor (whose name I forget because it's been a decade at least since I've watched).

But I agree with lilac05 that at some point in it's history the Simsons got grandfathered in - is that because we think if it as a cartoon or like she said, because it's "always been that way"?

I feel like I am (obviously) biased because I am Indian and I've loved finally being able to watch TV and see people that look like me in leading roles and making a name for themselves as something other than a stereotypical convenience store worker, cabbie, or bit role.

ETA: I looked it up and we do get the channel. I am so pumped to watch this!

Mayor Quimby and chief Wiggum

[raangoli]

Nov 13, 2017 11:28:06 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Nov 13, 2017 11:24:16 GMT -5 raangoli said:

I've seen the argument that the Simpsons characters are all caricatures that are exaggerated. Like the examples mentioned above, or like Chief Quimby who is drawn with a pig nose and obviously loves donuts, or the terribly crooked Mayor (whose name I forget because it's been a decade at least since I've watched).

But I agree with lilac05 that at some point in it's history the Simsons got grandfathered in - is that because we think if it as a cartoon or like she said, because it's "always been that way"?

I feel like I am (obviously) biased because I am Indian and I've loved finally being able to watch TV and see people that look like me in leading roles and making a name for themselves as something other than a stereotypical convenience store worker, cabbie, or bit role.

ETA: I looked it up and we do get the channel. I am so pumped to watch this!

Mayor Quimby and chief Wiggum

Whoops! Totally wrong on the one name that I thought I knew

[pixy0stix]

Dr. Nick is supposed to be hispanic - simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Nick_Riviera

Huh. I guess I never clued into that.

Apu and his brother have always bothered me in that they were stereotypes. Most of the characters of the show are stereotypes, but those particular characters are racial stereotypes. The addition of Manjula just perpetuated the whole thing.

[mbcdefg]

Nov 13, 2017 11:37:06 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Dr. Nick is supposed to be hispanic - simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Nick_Riviera

Huh. I guess I never clued into that.

I never got that impression about Dr. Nick, either. I just thought he was given a goofy accent. That being said I'm mainly going on seasons 1-10ish, so if they've labeled him as Hispanic in a newer episode I'm not aware. Obviously "Riviera" should've been a clue but they never dwelled on it. There was one episode where he was seen in a classroom taking a U.S. citizenship test (alongside Apu actually), and cheating with notes written on his arm ... to my knowledge that's the only time they've referenced him being an immigrant, and that seemed more of a dig at him being a quack doctor/incompetent than him being an immigrant. 

There are definitely other stereotypes, like raangoli said ... Chief Wiggum as a "pig cop," Mayor Quimby as a corrupt, womanizing politician whose whole family is modeled after the Kennedys.

There's also a poor country rube, a Chef Boyardee-style Italian restaurant owner, a gruff Scottish janitor, and a pirate-speaking sea captain. All of whom formed a bowling team called The Stereotypes, in fact, and they "begged" Apu to join.

In addition to Apu and Sanjay being offensive, it's just a lazy joke, too. The Simpsons (in its heyday, anyway) has been known for very clever humor, and this is just a cheap shot. They were better than that but went for the offensive cheap laugh.

[raangoli]

mbcdefg Isn't there a clip for the documentary where Hank Azaria is heard saying that he felt like his Apu voice was too over the top maybe but that the show (producers or someone else) said that no, it was perfect? (I have a terrible memory, so I might be mis-remembering.)

[mbcdefg]

Nov 13, 2017 12:14:30 GMT -5 raangoli said:

mbcdefg Isn't there a clip for the documentary where Hank Azaria is heard saying that he felt like his Apu voice was too over the top maybe but that the show (producers or someone else) said that no, it was perfect? (I have a terrible memory, so I might be mis-remembering.)

Yes, ~0:50 mark: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGzvEqBvkP8 

The (white) host of the Simpsons Trivia I sometimes attend was interviewed for this, but he said on the FB group that he doesn't think his comments made the final cut. I think a few other trivia attendees were interviewed as well, at Hari Kondabolu's request ... the host works for a media outlet so IDK if Kondabolu reached out to him personally or if the host responded to some sort of general call for participants. 

The trivia group has a really active FB page with lots of die-hard Simpsons fans, and every comment I've seen has been in support of this documentary and in agreement that the Apu stereotype sucks. That being said, this one is local to Brooklyn ... there's a national/international FB group I left a while back because people kept showing their asses, and I just looked at it now and there are a few "boo hoo PC police"-type comments on there so no love lost from me.

[raangoli]

Nov 13, 2017 12:24:10 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Nov 13, 2017 12:14:30 GMT -5 raangoli said:

mbcdefg Isn't there a clip for the documentary where Hank Azaria is heard saying that he felt like his Apu voice was too over the top maybe but that the show (producers or someone else) said that no, it was perfect? (I have a terrible memory, so I might be mis-remembering.)

Yes, ~0:50 mark: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGzvEqBvkP8 

The (white) host of the Simpsons Trivia I sometimes attend was interviewed for this, but he said on the FB group that he doesn't think his comments made the final cut. I think a few other trivia attendees were interviewed as well, at Hari Kondabolu's request ... the host works for a media outlet so IDK if Kondabolu reached out to him personally or if the host responded to some sort of general call for participants. 

The trivia group has a really active FB page with lots of die-hard Simpsons fans, and every comment I've seen has been in support of this documentary and in agreement that the Apu stereotype sucks. That being said, this one is local to Brooklyn ... there's a national/international FB group I left a while back because people kept showing their asses, and I just looked at it now and there are a few "boo hoo PC police"-type comments on there so no love lost from me.

Thank you for finding the video and the mark where it is said. When I heard that, I was even more furious. Hank knew it was wrong, over the top, offensive, etc. but yet he went along with it. I guess I should not be surprised that most people don't follow their moral compass.

Also not surprised that the Brooklyn-based FB group was more liberal and open about the possibility that this is a problem.

[mbcdefg]

Nov 13, 2017 12:38:51 GMT -5 raangoli said:

Nov 13, 2017 12:24:10 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Yes, ~0:50 mark: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGzvEqBvkP8 

The (white) host of the Simpsons Trivia I sometimes attend was interviewed for this, but he said on the FB group that he doesn't think his comments made the final cut. I think a few other trivia attendees were interviewed as well, at Hari Kondabolu's request ... the host works for a media outlet so IDK if Kondabolu reached out to him personally or if the host responded to some sort of general call for participants. 

The trivia group has a really active FB page with lots of die-hard Simpsons fans, and every comment I've seen has been in support of this documentary and in agreement that the Apu stereotype sucks. That being said, this one is local to Brooklyn ... there's a national/international FB group I left a while back because people kept showing their asses, and I just looked at it now and there are a few "boo hoo PC police"-type comments on there so no love lost from me.

Thank you for finding the video and the mark where it is said. When I heard that, I was even more furious. Hank knew it was wrong, over the top, offensive, etc. but yet he went along with it. I guess I should not be surprised that most people don't follow their moral compass.

Also not surprised that the Brooklyn-based FB group was more liberal and open about the possibility that this is a problem.

Vir Das was a guest on Conan a couple weeks ago ... I forget what the setup was during his performance, but made some sort of dig and then he said to Conan, "That one was for Apu" (Conan O'Brien was a Simpsons writer in the early 90s before he got the Late Night show). Conan just laughed in one of those, "yeah, I know" ways and said, "I didn't create him, I only wrote for him."

[raangoli]

mbcdefg A random aside from this thread, but Vir Das has a Netflix comedy special. I assume it's still available, I watched it a few months ago. It was filmed in both NY and India (I think Delhi). I thought it was pretty good - until then end a little when he lost me with some of his jokes (just not my brand of humor).

[mbcdefg]

Nov 13, 2017 13:12:45 GMT -5 raangoli said:

mbcdefg A random aside from this thread, but Vir Das has a Netflix comedy special. I assume it's still available, I watched it a few months ago. It was filmed in both NY and India (I think Delhi). I thought it was pretty good - until then end a little when he lost me with some of his jokes (just not my brand of humor).

I actually sat down to watch this a few months ago ... DD was still new and I turned it on in the bedroom, watched maybe 20 minutes, fell asleep, then woke up somewhere near the end. I keep meaning to watch it again all the way through.

[Dumbledork]

I think Simpsons is kinda like that Mencia comic. The idea being, if I offend everyone, I’m not really offensive.

I was actually thinking Willie (angry Irishman) after Apu, but I knew there were tons more.

Is Hibbert supposed to be a play on Cosby/Huxtable?

[mbcdefg]

Nov 13, 2017 13:35:52 GMT -5 Dumbledork said:

I think Simpsons is kinda like that Mencia comic. The idea being, if I offend everyone, I’m not really offensive.

I was actually thinking Willie (angry Irishman) after Apu, but I knew there were tons more.

Is Hibbert supposed to be a play on Cosby/Huxtable?

Yes. He's not portrayed as Bill Cosby all the time, but the parody is obvious (especially in the first few seasons).




Another running joke with Dr. Hibbert is that his hairstyle and fashion changes dramatically whenever they do flashbacks, to fit in with whatever was current in Black culture at the time:

   

AV Club actually did an article in 2015 on whether or not Dr. Hibbert should be written out of the show because of his association with Bill Cosby: tv.avclub.com/dr-hibbert-s-critical-condition-1798275611 

[wise_rita]

Nov 13, 2017 13:35:52 GMT -5 Dumbledork said:

I think Simpsons is kinda like that Mencia comic. The idea being, if I offend everyone, I’m not really offensive.

I was actually thinking Willie (angry Irishman) after Apu, but I knew there were tons more.

Is Hibbert supposed to be a play on Cosby/Huxtable?

The most offensive thing in this thread thus far is calling Willie Irish.

That and the fact that The Simpsons sucks ass now and has for years.

[Dumbledork]

Nov 13, 2017 21:42:06 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Nov 13, 2017 13:35:52 GMT -5 Dumbledork said:

I think Simpsons is kinda like that Mencia comic. The idea being, if I offend everyone, I’m not really offensive.

I was actually thinking Willie (angry Irishman) after Apu, but I knew there were tons more.

Is Hibbert supposed to be a play on Cosby/Huxtable?

The most offensive thing in this thread thus far is calling Willie Irish.

That and the fact that The Simpsons sucks ass now and has for years.

Ah! Sorry! I haven’t watched since I lived with my parents. I even had to look up Hibbert’s name because I couldn’t remember it.

I can’t believe I mixed it up.

[noodleoo]

Did anyone watch? I watched it last night. I thought it was a really good documentary. Being an Indian American, he really captured so many issues and feelings that few people around me understand. I hope people watch it.

The ending really struck me.  Like Hari, I kind of wanted to throw things when he read that email.

[mbcdefg]

I watched (I got interrupted a few times but I saw most of it).

I feel bad for Hari that Hank Azaria kept giving him the runaround. I don't know what Azaria could've possibly said in the documentary to NOT come across as a racist asshole, but he also reacted to Hari's requests for an interview in a jerk way.

Dana Gould also seemed like a real douche.

[Velar Fricative]

I watched it and thought it was really well done. Among the many things that stuck out, I didn't realize that in the entire history of The Simpsons (so, a million years), Apu has only said "Thank you, come again" eight times. I haven't watched The Simpsons in years but you'd think he says it every time he's on screen given how often it's used to make fun of people of South Asian descent. But, that quip said just eight times was enough to make people run with it.