I need advice or help with DS

[katb]

My son is 9 and in 4th grade.  Never been in trouble besides the normal stuff -forgetting homework, occasional red (meaning talking in class after reminder, etc).  In first grade, he hit a friend and that was the only time I have been called by the teacher for a discipline problem.

I get a phone call today from the Asst Principal asking to speak to me.  DS took a pocket knife to school.  As if that wasn't bad enough, he was playing with a group of friends and took it out.  One of the kids told him that it wasn't okay (good for that kid) and my DS stated what are you going to do, I have a knife?  Basically threatening the poor kid.

I am so livid, mad, upset, disappointed, embarrassed, etc.  He is suspended for one day.  After bringing him home, the police show up at my house.  My son now has a citation and we have to go to court.  How the hell does this happen?  I want to lock down and punish him forever.  But I also know I tend to be severe in the grounding area.


I say at least a month of restriction and some hard chores this weekend.

[mcsangel2]

I think your punishments sound appropriate. How did he react when the police came? If he seemed scared, then I would think he's got the right idea going forward.

[W.T.Faulkner]

Heavy restrictions at home - whatever he loves is going away for a long time. “What are you going to do - I have a knife” took this to a new level for me.

[Leeham Rimes]

I agree punishment is in order but I’d also want to know why he took a knife to school. Maybe he’s having issues that he’s not telling you about/ Being bullied? I mean, if a kid who has never had issues with discipline or violence before starts out with a knife and threatens someone with it, I’d definitely want to get to the bottom of it.

I’m in no way absolving him of responsibility, I’d want to lock him in his room forever and ever bc I’d be so mad. As far as actual punishment, I think I’d go with what you’re doing. I wonder if there is an age appropriate way for him to see the realities of school violence but not in a way that will traumatize him.

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.

[katb]

When he came out of his room and into the living room and saw the police officer, I think he shit his pants. He started crying and was very scared. He went back into his room, turned his light off, and has been in bed since. It also didn't help that I was so upset when the police came in and told me he was going to get citation


DH just got home and went in and talked to him as well. The story he told us and the AP was that he was trying to be cool and tough. DH thinks something else is going on. I'm not sure. He knows better, he has been taught better, and I know the schools drive it into every student's head about weapons, threats, and harrassment. I am a teacher in this district so I know the drill with our Code of Conduct. That also gives me an extra bout of embarrassment. In addition, these kids are his friends - as far as I know.

[peggy]

I would make him an appointment with a child psychologist as soon as possible to get to the bottom of it. I’m also of the mindset that therapy rarely hurts even in the best of circumstances. (I say rarely because there are some “bad” therapists)

[erbear]

Nov 14, 2017 19:16:23 GMT -5 peggy said:

I would make him an appointment with a child psychologist as soon as possible to get to the bottom of it. I’m also of the mindset that therapy rarely hurts even in the best of circumstances. (I say rarely because there are some “bad” therapists)

I'm kind of here. Especially if his behavior is so out of the norm for him (and it is for 4th graders - that is not a typical response). I think something's going on at school.

[penguingrrl]

Nov 14, 2017 19:16:23 GMT -5 peggy said:

I would make him an appointment with a child psychologist as soon as possible to get to the bottom of it. I’m also of the mindset that therapy rarely hurts even in the best of circumstances. (I say rarely because there are some “bad” therapists)

That was the very first thing that came to my mind too. I would continue the punishments you have instituted as well, but for a child with no prior discipline issue to bring a knife to school makes me think there’s something deeper going on.

[icedcoffee]

I was going to suggest therapy as well. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

[nachos]

I'd try to set him up with the guidance counselor, major restrictions at home, and check in with his teacher to see if they've noticed him being "off."

It's a good sign that he reacted so strongly to the police - he clearly knows he did something inappropriate. Now comes trying to find the "why" behind the incident. I'm sorry that you have to deal with this.

[katb]

Nov 14, 2017 19:41:05 GMT -5 @tooshort said:

Am I allowed to ask where he got the pocket knife from?

If the other parent was writing this the board consensus is the knife weilding kid should be expelled.

Have you addressed this with the other parent(s)?

Therapy might not be a bad idea. Someone needs to figure out why he wants to be cool and why having a knife makes him cool.

I’m sorry you are going through this.

It was from our house - I had it hanging on a nail in the kitchen where the house calendar hangs.  It is a multi tool or similar to a swiss army knife but smaller.  It's about 2 inches in length in whole, the knife or scissors part I estimate to be an inch.  It was a promotional item from one of the companies that does business with my DH union.  I had it hanging there because I can never find a pair of scissors when I need them.

I think the idea about a therapist is a good idea.  Until I can get an appointment I might ask the school psychologist (not guidance) to speak to him.

[katb]

Nov 14, 2017 19:41:05 GMT -5 @tooshort said:

Am I allowed to ask where he got the pocket knife from?

If the other parent was writing this the board consensus is the knife weilding kid should be expelled.

Have you addressed this with the other parent(s)?

Therapy might not be a bad idea. Someone needs to figure out why he wants to be cool and why having a knife makes him cool.

I’m sorry you are going through this.

Oh also to add, I agree with you - if this was reverse - I would be so mad at that kid and calling him a punk, and expecting something major to happen.  That is the worse part - to know I am feeling quite humble at this moment that it is happening in my home.

[somersault72]

Does anyone else think it's insane he's going to court for this? At 9?!

I think the school's punishment was appropriate, and certainly ground him for awhile. I also agree with trying to get to the bottom of why he did it.

I'm sorry. I have a 9 year old son who has gotten in his fair share of trouble (nothing with weapons yet, knock on wood), and it is so stressful. I've cried about it more times than I can count.

[my3boyz]

The cool thing may very well be the case. My DS1 did something similar last year. Oh, and he's 16 so the consequences were much higher. He didn't take a weapon to school but texted pics of guns (that his dad left out at his grandmas house,we don't have guns here) to his friends. They were like "so what" so he upped the ante and said "school name Better watch out". And this is my good son, the easy and kind one. He wouldn't hurt a fly. But he was on the fringe of his friend circle and wanted to gain cool points.
It was horrible, he was out of school for over a month, we had to go to threat assessments, multiple school meetings and ultimately plead for him not to be expelled at the central office. We simultaneously had to deal with the juvenile probation dept. to avoid going before a judge and being charged. It was a really bad situation because teens do stupid shit.
I say all this so you know that your son isn't the only one to do something like this. Be glad he's in 4th grade and not 10th. The citation probably won't go far due to his age and lack of trouble previously. Get him into counseling, monitor his friends. We had lots of conversations about not needing to prove yourself to true friends. True friends think you're cool on your own merits. I honestly wasn't very hard on my son. We obviously took his phone since that's where the problem originated, as I'm sure you took his pocketknife. But my son seeing me and his stepdad cry in fear and stand up and fight on his behalf actually ended up strengthening his relationship with both of us (silver linings).

[dochas]

Nov 14, 2017 20:14:51 GMT -5 somersault72 said:

Does anyone else think it's insane he's going to court for this? At 9?!

I do. And I don't think I would be screaming that he was a punk either. He didn't take a machete to school to even the score, he showed friends a tiny version of a swiss army knife. He should not have done it of course and I don't think the school could have done anything but exactly what they did. I would also definitely try to find out why he suddenly wants to appear tough. Kids can say and do things very quietly that they never get called on to answer for and even though he is totally wrong for this, I'd want to know that he's ok too.

And thanks for sharing this. It always helps to know about things to look out for and I'm not sure all young boys would think of pocket knives as weapons so it's helpful to know that this is something that might need to be pointed out. I'd know not to take one to school but little kids might not.

[Eagles]

Nov 14, 2017 20:13:30 GMT -5 katb said:

Nov 14, 2017 19:41:05 GMT -5 @tooshort said:

Am I allowed to ask where he got the pocket knife from?

If the other parent was writing this the board consensus is the knife weilding kid should be expelled.

Have you addressed this with the other parent(s)?

Therapy might not be a bad idea. Someone needs to figure out why he wants to be cool and why having a knife makes him cool.

I’m sorry you are going through this.

Oh also to add, I agree with you - if this was reverse - I would be so mad at that kid and calling him a punk, and expecting something major to happen.  That is the worse part - to know I am feeling quite humble at this moment that it is happening in my home.

I'm sorry.

[tacokick]

Nov 14, 2017 20:56:24 GMT -5 dochas said:

Nov 14, 2017 20:14:51 GMT -5 somersault72 said:

Does anyone else think it's insane he's going to court for this? At 9?!

I do. And I don't think I would be screaming that he was a punk either. He didn't take a machete to school to even the score, he showed friends a tiny version of a swiss army knife. He should not have done it of course and I don't think the school could have done anything but exactly what they did. I would also definitely try to find out why he suddenly wants to appear tough. Kids can say and do things very quietly that they never get called on to answer for and even though he is totally wrong for this, I'd want to know that he's ok too.

And thanks for sharing this. It always helps to know about things to look out for and I'm not sure all young boys would think of pocket knives as weapons so it's helpful to know that this is something that might need to be pointed out. I'd know not to take one to school but little kids might not.

Well, he did threaten a kid with it so I would think he knew and thought of it as a weapon.

I’m not surprised the police were called but I am surprised he wasn’t expelled or put in a secure classroom at the very least. This is pretty out of the norm for kids his age.

Therapy to get to the bottom of why he did this and why he thought it was appropriate is needed. It would also be a good way to find out if anything else is going on with him/to him that is concerning.

[cupcake0214]

I think the police coming to your house and a court appearance is extreme.The other parents would have the right to press charges. I am a school counselor and if this occurred in my district it would be a 10 day suspension and possibly an appointment to the school psychologist. I would be concerned that there is something else going on.

[cmeon]

When DS was in 1st, an older kid brought a folding knife (bigger than a pocket knife, if that matters) to school and asked DS to trade his yearbook for it. He wasn't mean or threatening, just "Hey, I have this cool thing- will you trade me?"- but, DS told his teacher and ultimately, the kid was expelled (I wasn't included in the conversation or decisions and feel horrible about his punishment 4 years later, FYI).

It could have been so much worse for your DS.

I hope he does get therapy and works through this- I agree that the threat is not typical 4th grade talk. Is it possible he's being exposed to material that's too mature for him? It's hard when there are older siblings.

And I am sorry for you. It cannot be a comfortable place for a parent to be. I hope his friends and their parents are forgiving- I don't think I would be in burn-it-down mode, just sad and concerned.*

*As a parent of one of his friends, assuming I knew them like I know my son's friends and their families.

[Leeham Rimes]

Nov 14, 2017 20:14:51 GMT -5 somersault72 said:

Does anyone else think it's insane he's going to court for this? At 9?!

I think the school's punishment was appropriate, and certainly ground him for awhile. I also agree with trying to get to the bottom of why he did it.

I'm sorry. I have a 9 year old son who has gotten in his fair share of trouble (nothing with weapons yet, knock on wood), and it is so stressful. I've cried about it more times than I can count.

Carrying a weapon to school is a crime, so no, I don't think it's insane for him to go to court. And he threatened someone with it, so again, no I don't find it insane. 

 if your kid came home and said "joey threatened me with a knife today at school" I don't think you'd be this calm or find it outlandish that he has to go to court over it.

[auntie]

I am sorry you are dealing with this. How awful for you.

I am generally always the first to suggest a psychologist, and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt here, but it might be an over-reaction to pretty typical and age appropriate bad decision making. IME, and I have spent hundreds of hours with hundreds of boys in scouting over the years, this is pretty typical tween braggadocio.

I know a lot of kids who were really into knives at that age. Collected them, brought them along to forbidden places much as some kids shoplift as sport. They tended to be really nice kids- really bright, too- but were often smaller than their peers or less physically mature. To a man, they all grew up to be decent and responsible human beings.

I wasn't there, but it feels like he didn't lunge at the rule-boy with the knife, he just had a cocky comeback. Unfortunately schools and police take a zero tolerance approach to a 2" pocket knife a mom would leave out where a kid could find it as they would a KA-BAR. So, I expect you'll go through the motions with the courts which will be quite the teaching moment. I wouldn't punish further, but we would be discussing.

I would absolutely not turn to the school psychologist for a number of reasons. For one thing, most are not trained as clinical psychologists- they are often Master's level individuals who are in place because of IDEA's special education mandates- they're in schools to evaluate for educational need and oversee IEPs. Plus, if there is some sort of mental health issue with your son that led to this behavior (and I would bet there isn't), you might not want to be sharing that with the school district. Your pediatrician can refer you to a clinic or private practice.

Good luck.

[erbear]

Nov 15, 2017 5:43:37 GMT -5 auntie said:

I am sorry you are dealing with this. How awful for you.

I am generally always the first to suggest a psychologist, and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt here, but it might be an over-reaction to pretty typical and age appropriate bad decision making. IME, and I have spent hundreds of hours with hundreds of boys in scouting over the years, this is pretty typical tween braggadocio.

I know a lot of kids who were really into knives at that age. Collected them, brought them along to forbidden places much as some kids shoplift as sport. They tended to be really nice kids- really bright, too- but were often smaller than their peers or less physically mature. To a man, they all grew up to be decent and responsible human beings.

I wasn't there, but it feels like he didn't lunge at the rule-boy with the knife, he just had a cocky comeback. Unfortunately schools and police take a zero tolerance approach to a 2" pocket knife a mom would leave out where a kid could find it as they would a KA-BAR. So, I expect you'll go through the motions with the courts which will be quite the teaching moment. I wouldn't punish further, but we would be discussing.

I would absolutely not turn to the school psychologist for a number of reasons. For one thing, most are not trained as clinical psychologists- they are often Master's level individuals who are in place because of IDEA's special education mandates- they're in schools to evaluate for educational need and oversee IEPs. Plus, if there is some sort of mental health issue with your son that led to this behavior (and I would bet there isn't), you might not want to be sharing that with the school district. Your pediatrician can refer you to a clinic or private practice.

Good luck.

Wait, what?

First off, if he was just showing it to kids, sure, but the implied threat changes the intent here. That's not typical behavior.

You wouldn't punish your kid for bringing a weapon to school? He's lucky he's not being expelled.

And if your kid does have a mental health issue (and I'm not saying he does) of course the school needs to know - how the heck else are they supposed to work with you and him?!

OP - hang in there. I hope everything's ok and this was just a bravado thing but it cannot hurt to dig deeper with him.

[auntie]

No. I would not punish my kid for a first offense for doing something this stupid in the context of police involvement. Dealing with police and the courts is a pretty powerful stuff for a nine year old. We would certainly discuss it and I would go medieval if he pulled a stunt like this a second time.

My kid has some mental health issues. I chose to find an expert related to his condition rather than trust school personnel who aren't trained as clinical psychologists. In cases where my son's issues were educationally relevant, we did work with the school but not all issues are something you want to share with the school. It's not a universal, but I know families whose kids carried a reputation from a single incident like this (that is likely a one-off) which impacted how the kid was treated through graduation.

[somersault72]

Nov 14, 2017 22:25:53 GMT -5 Leeham Rimes said:

Nov 14, 2017 20:14:51 GMT -5 somersault72 said:

Does anyone else think it's insane he's going to court for this? At 9?!

I think the school's punishment was appropriate, and certainly ground him for awhile. I also agree with trying to get to the bottom of why he did it.

I'm sorry. I have a 9 year old son who has gotten in his fair share of trouble (nothing with weapons yet, knock on wood), and it is so stressful. I've cried about it more times than I can count.

Carrying a weapon to school is a crime, so no, I don't think it's insane for him to go to court. And he threatened someone with it, so again, no I don't find it insane. 

 if your kid came home and said "joey threatened me with a knife today at school" I don't think you'd be this calm or find it outlandish that he has to go to court over it.

I never said it wasn't a big deal, or that I was "calm." Certainly it's a big deal. I still think involving the court system for a 9 year old is insane. Obviously other people (including people involved in the situation) think differently.

[laurack]

dealing with police is "powerful stuff" for a nine year old? what. So bringing a knife to school and threatening other kids is not powerful stuff though? It wasn't like it was a machete? what the hell is wrong with you people

Now I have a son and I completely sympathize that this has happened to OP and it sounds like she is dealing with it with a very level head, but I do support harsh and "scary" punishments for what is a harsh infraction that was likely scary for the other kids. Not waiting for a second offense to teach a kid that bringing weapons to school is bad.

[fivechickens]

I think the OP is handling this well.

Holy shit at some of you. No punishment? For taking a knife to school? Then threatening a fellow student with it? He is lucky he didn’t get expelled. Sure he is in 4th grade and can’t fully comprehend the ramifications of his actions (expulsion/suspension, police involvement) but he knew taking the knife to school was wrong.

What is wrong with some of you.

[05heel]

Nov 15, 2017 5:43:37 GMT -5 auntie said:

I am sorry you are dealing with this. How awful for you.

I am generally always the first to suggest a psychologist, and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt here, but it might be an over-reaction to pretty typical and age appropriate bad decision making. IME, and I have spent hundreds of hours with hundreds of boys in scouting over the years, this is pretty typical tween braggadocio.

I know a lot of kids who were really into knives at that age. Collected them, brought them along to forbidden places much as some kids shoplift as sport. They tended to be really nice kids- really bright, too- but were often smaller than their peers or less physically mature. To a man, they all grew up to be decent and responsible human beings.

I wasn't there, but it feels like he didn't lunge at the rule-boy with the knife, he just had a cocky comeback. Unfortunately schools and police take a zero tolerance approach to a 2" pocket knife a mom would leave out where a kid could find it as they would a KA-BAR. So, I expect you'll go through the motions with the courts which will be quite the teaching moment. I wouldn't punish further, but we would be discussing.

I would absolutely not turn to the school psychologist for a number of reasons. For one thing, most are not trained as clinical psychologists- they are often Master's level individuals who are in place because of IDEA's special education mandates- they're in schools to evaluate for educational need and oversee IEPs. Plus, if there is some sort of mental health issue with your son that led to this behavior (and I would bet there isn't), you might not want to be sharing that with the school district. Your pediatrician can refer you to a clinic or private practice.

Good luck.

You know a bunch of 9-year-old knife collectors?

[followyourarrow]

I'm sorry. I think your doing the right things with punishment. Talking to the school physiologist isn't a bad idea. When something similar happened in a school I worked in, Social Services was also called.

Can you find some resources that show that even a pocket knife is a weapon, not something cool?

[fivechickens]

Nov 15, 2017 5:43:37 GMT -5 auntie said:

I am sorry you are dealing with this. How awful for you.

I am generally always the first to suggest a psychologist, and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt here, but it might be an over-reaction to pretty typical and age appropriate bad decision making. IME, and I have spent hundreds of hours with hundreds of boys in scouting over the years, this is pretty typical tween braggadocio.

I know a lot of kids who were really into knives at that age. Collected them, brought them along to forbidden places much as some kids shoplift as sport. They tended to be really nice kids- really bright, too- but were often smaller than their peers or less physically mature. To a man, they all grew up to be decent and responsible human beings.

I wasn't there, but it feels like he didn't lunge at the rule-boy with the knife, he just had a cocky comeback. Unfortunately schools and police take a zero tolerance approach to a 2" pocket knife a mom would leave out where a kid could find it as they would a KA-BAR. So, I expect you'll go through the motions with the courts which will be quite the teaching moment. I wouldn't punish further, but we would be discussing.

I would absolutely not turn to the school psychologist for a number of reasons. For one thing, most are not trained as clinical psychologists- they are often Master's level individuals who are in place because of IDEA's special education mandates- they're in schools to evaluate for educational need and oversee IEPs. Plus, if there is some sort of mental health issue with your son that led to this behavior (and I would bet there isn't), you might not want to be sharing that with the school district. Your pediatrician can refer you to a clinic or private practice.

Good luck.

Boys will be boys!!!

[Captain Catnip]

Nov 15, 2017 11:16:47 GMT -5 @meepmeep said:

Not a parent, so I don't have advice for OP, but I have an unrelated question: When a kid is expelled from school, what happens to the kid? They're legally required to go to school, but they're not allowed in school, so ... where do they go? I live in a tiny district that has one elementary school, one middle school, and one high school. If a kid is expelled here, there isn't another school to go to. The next nearest school is 15 miles away, and they won't bus between communities. Are the parents required to homeschool?

The district that I graduated from has an after school program for that, and others I know of not recently have done the cyber charter.