Maybe that's the point of this article? that our social safety nets are SO FUCKING WEAK that even people making 100k a year are still stressed more than they ought to be because they know that if shit hits the fan they're totally screwed and they can't save much because health insurance and so forth is eating more than it should? I dunno. I have strong feelings about that fact, I just don't have strong feelings about any of the people in this article. They all seem like totally normal people who are getting by ok. Maybe I missed something.
That actually is the point that I got from the OP, which is why I don't necessarily feel unsympathetic to people making $100k. I'm not talking so much about the specific people in the OP. Yes, I feel worse for people who would kill to make this kind of money, but I do have plenty of sympathy to go around when the costs of everything else that's necessary are increasing exponentially.
I've never thought about the American dream being able to afford anything you want, but I do find your examples of "making it" interesting. A kid needing new shoes or an unexpected car repair are not unusual expenses. Upthread someone said she had a luxurious life and cited having a house, 2 cars, health insurance and clothing for her children. So I guess the American dream is having enough money to afford the basic necessities of life? I think this article is an illustration of the fact that our society simply doesn't value the stability and well being of our citizens, not the poor, not the middle class and not the high earners because we're okay with almost everyone in our country being a few easy steps away from financial disaster.
I guess I just...I mean, we ARE pretty much all *thisclose* to financial disaster. All but the really really rich are one non-covered medical catastrophe away from total financial ruin, right.
So we're (almost) all in that part of it together. I didn't find any of the stories in the OP to be surprising or like, worthy of ridicule. Of course that's what life is like. I also didn't find any of them to be like...heartbreaking? because yeah, it sucks to want to renovate your kitchen and not be able to afford it, but you're still ok. You're not making decisions about which bills to pay on a normal month, you're making decisions about which discretionary expenses to avoid. That's still not fun, but it's not terrible.
I just don't know what to make of this article or this discussion. These people seem like they're doing what they need to do to get by, of course it doesn't feel like enough to cover everything without difficult decisions and a shitton of luck because we suck as a country so retirement and healthcare and childcare and higher education are enormous expenses. So...like, are these people people I'm supposed to feel bad for? I don't feel bad for them. They seem ok in life. I also don't think they're doing anything wrong. That's just...how it is. Like, "yup, that's what it's like to make that much money. You can afford the stuff you need to afford, but you have to budget closely for everything else. Unless shit goes tits up, and then...well, that sucks family in gburg with the big medical expenses. also gburg is expensive as fuck."
Maybe that's the point of this article? that our social safety nets are SO FUCKING WEAK that even people making 100k a year are still stressed more than they ought to be because they know that if shit hits the fan they're totally screwed and they can't save much because health insurance and so forth is eating more than it should? I dunno. I have strong feelings about that fact, I just don't have strong feelings about any of the people in this article. They all seem like totally normal people who are getting by ok. Maybe I missed something.
I agree with most of what you are saying. I think the problem with this piece is it doesn't really communicate a whole lot. I suppose it's intent is just to provide people with some details to help answer the "how do other people do it?" question, and because it's CEP, we are looking for more.
So here's my takeaway. None of these people's kids are going to know what hunger feels like. But at the same time, probably a lot of these kids are going to know what it's like to have an elderly parent that needs financial support, or go without health insurance because a parent loses a job, or wind up even further behind because they have to now take out $80k in SLs for a bachelors at a cheap school instead of $30k for a bachelors like their parents. I think people are getting hung up on the former and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But the latter is still a huge societal problem that should be discussed and not ignored just because these kids get three meals a day. I wish articles like this put these people's stories in that larger context, and the fact that it didn't was a miss.
I've never thought about the American dream being able to afford anything you want, but I do find your examples of "making it" interesting. A kid needing new shoes or an unexpected car repair are not unusual expenses. Upthread someone said she had a luxurious life and cited having a house, 2 cars, health insurance and clothing for her children. So I guess the American dream is having enough money to afford the basic necessities of life? I think this article is an illustration of the fact that our society simply doesn't value the stability and well being of our citizens, not the poor, not the middle class and not the high earners because we're okay with almost everyone in our country being a few easy steps away from financial disaster.
I guess I just...I mean, we ARE pretty much all *thisclose* to financial disaster. All but the really really rich are one non-covered medical catastrophe away from total financial ruin, right.
So we're (almost) all in that part of it together. I didn't find any of the stories in the OP to be surprising or like, worthy of ridicule. Of course that's what life is like. I also didn't find any of them to be like...heartbreaking? because yeah, it sucks to want to renovate your kitchen and not be able to afford it, but you're still ok. You're not making decisions about which bills to pay on a normal month, you're making decisions about which discretionary expenses to avoid. That's still not fun, but it's not terrible.
I just don't know what to make of this article or this discussion. These people seem like they're doing what they need to do to get by, of course it doesn't feel like enough to cover everything without difficult decisions and a shitton of luck because we suck as a country so retirement and healthcare and childcare and higher education are enormous expenses. So...like, are these people people I'm supposed to feel bad for? I don't feel bad for them. They seem ok in life. I also don't think they're doing anything wrong. That's just...how it is. Like, "yup, that's what it's like to make that much money. You can afford the stuff you need to afford, but you have to budget closely for everything else. Unless shit goes tits up, and then...well, that sucks family in gburg with the big medical expenses. also gburg is expensive as fuck."
Maybe that's the point of this article? that our social safety nets are SO FUCKING WEAK that even people making 100k a year are still stressed more than they ought to be because they know that if shit hits the fan they're totally screwed and they can't save much because health insurance and so forth is eating more than it should? I dunno. I have strong feelings about that fact, I just don't have strong feelings about any of the people in this article. They all seem like totally normal people who are getting by ok. Maybe I missed something.
I think that is the point of the article...
NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro spoke to a variety of people in different cities about what their lives look like on $100,000 a year. On paper, that kind of salary is considered well-off. But as we heard from many, it often takes just one major expense for that to not feel like enough: student loans, health care, childcare or housing costs.
We aren't really supposed to feel bad for them based on their decisions, but we're supposed to understand that each one is not struggling so much as they aren't thriving... $100k isn't a magic number, despite that it does help cushion that safety net fear and afford less stress than being at median income or below.
Maybe that's the point of this article? that our social safety nets are SO FUCKING WEAK that even people making 100k a year are still stressed more than they ought to be because they know that if shit hits the fan they're totally screwed and they can't save much because health insurance and so forth is eating more than it should? I dunno. I have strong feelings about that fact, I just don't have strong feelings about any of the people in this article. They all seem like totally normal people who are getting by ok. Maybe I missed something.
This is exactly what I took from it. I don't feel bad for these specific people. I don't know that we are supposed to feel bad for them based on the way the article is written.
well I'm glad I finally figured out the point then. Sorry I had to ramble through multiple posts to get there.
I used to think that when we reached a $100k HHI we'd be rolling in the dough. It was a magical number in our minds. Then we hit that number and I realized it's mostly ate up by retirement savings, health insurance premiums, and uncovered medical expenses.
Now I try to just be thankful that we can pay for these things, because I know it wasn't always possible, and it's still not possible for a lot of people.
I think when we had a lower income we had high expectations of what kind of lifestyle $100k or more would afford. The reality is that it affords us nothing more than a little piece of mind knowing we can maybe retire with a little nest egg by the time we're 70 and hopefully not drown in medical debt. I can also go grocery shopping without a calculator. #baller
Other than that, all it did was price us out of homebuyer incentive programs in our area.
Post by penguingrrl on Dec 5, 2017 12:42:53 GMT -5
I can definitely relate to the mindset that $100K sounds like a ton but general living costs have increased at a pace that salaries haven’t kept up with, so what sounds like a huge income is no longer going nearly as far as it once did. It’s not that $100K is poor, not by a long shot. It’s that the level of security once associated with a $100K salary is no longer a given, but to many people that’s a magical number at which people’s financial worries are expected to disappear.
I can definitely relate to the mindset that $100K sounds like a ton but general living costs have increased at a pace that salaries haven’t kept up with, so what sounds like a huge income is no longer going nearly as far as it once did. It’s not that $100K is poor, not by a long shot. It’s that the level of security once associated with a $100K salary is no longer a given, but to many people that’s a magical number at which people’s financial worries are expected to disappear.
This does call to mind my good friends - she's a nurse, now in management. Her H is a machinist, now a shop manager. they got married young. Her H's job helped put her through nursing school. Her parents are ex-enlisted military, blue collar, large family, medical issues. I have no idea how much they make, but it's not great.
They give her shit about being "rich" and how she can have anything she wants and why doesn't she just pay for that since she has so much money, etc etc. And of course she's doing pretty well - they can comfortably afford their 3 bedroom SFH and save for important stuff, but they budget everything pretty closely, they needed all new windows after they bought their house and had to put them on a payment plan - you know, normal stuff.
But to her family, her lifestyle really is #baller. She has EVERYTHING. It seems like there is a dividing line there somewhere that is a little bit magical from the far side of it at least. Even if it stops feeling like magic once you cross it - and especially if you've always sat on this side of it.
I think the point of the article is literally just to show what 100k means to different people in different locations. The article starts out talking about the tax bill etc so I think the article wasn't trying to elicit sympathy for these people, per se, but it was more trying to show "100k isn't rolling in it for many people for a variety of factors" so when we talk about tax increases for those making 100k, 200k, 500k - what are those income levels really like? It doesn't mean someone making 500k is "struggling" but I think it can be helpful to have an understanding of what different income levels mean realistically. Its not unlike the HCOL budget posts or high income budget posts that used to be regularly posted on MM.
This is my take on it, and honestly, captures a bit how I feel personally right now. I'm not struggling personally, and while I can afford a tax increase and acknowledge exactly how fortunate I am, I would be full of it to say that the current tax discussions don't sting. It's demoralizing seeing the increases basically targeting my income bracket (and those below me) to give decreases to people who make a shit ton more money than I do, knowing everything that is either currently being cut/gutted or will be in the future to pay for this crap. Am I going to be skipping my electric bill to afford it? Of course not, but it's not like there is no impact either.
I do wonder if the perception of the American dream by and large actually has shifted to be something extravagant too though (like media influence, consumer culture, etc etc), which makes the reality of wage stagnation/cost increases sting even more
YES re: the dream shifting and consumer culture. I think both are true. The difference between how my parents grew up to how I grew up and to now how my kids are growing up is drastic in the amount of money spent. Things like paying for extra curriculars vs having a paper route and not being able to keep the money. Hand-me-down and homemade vs new. Road trips for vacations vs international travel.
Food waste is also bigger. Look at the "would you eat that" threads. I can guarantee that my grandparents would have ate that no questions asked. I have never felt the need to pour the unused condiments back into the bottle from my plate like my grandmother does. No one today would say they are living the American dream if they are re-using condiments. You can get a bottle of barbecue sauce for a dollar! But my grandma would for sure tell you she's lived the American dream.
This is exactly what I took from it. I don't feel bad for these specific people. I don't know that we are supposed to feel bad for them based on the way the article is written.
well I'm glad I finally figured out the point then. Sorry I had to ramble through multiple posts to get there.
I think this is the literal point of the article. It's not really meant to be a "woe is me" article. Its just trying to demonstrate, through a few examples, that 100k is not the threshold to economic security that many think it is.
"And the middle class is already struggling. The median household income is roughly $59,000 a year. But around the country, even six-figure salaries for some single-person households don't necessarily furnish financial security."
I can definitely relate to the mindset that $100K sounds like a ton but general living costs have increased at a pace that salaries haven’t kept up with, so what sounds like a huge income is no longer going nearly as far as it once did. It’s not that $100K is poor, not by a long shot. It’s that the level of security once associated with a $100K salary is no longer a given, but to many people that’s a magical number at which people’s financial worries are expected to disappear.
This does call to mind my good friends - she's a nurse, now in management. Her H is a machinist, now a shop manager. they got married young. Her H's job helped put her through nursing school. Her parents are ex-enlisted military, blue collar, large family, medical issues. I have no idea how much they make, but it's not great.
They give her shit about being "rich" and how she can have anything she wants and why doesn't she just pay for that since she has so much money, etc etc. And of course she's doing pretty well - they can comfortably afford their 3 bedroom SFH and save for important stuff, but they budget everything pretty closely, they needed all new windows after they bought their house and had to put them on a payment plan - you know, normal stuff.
But to her family, her lifestyle really is #baller. She has EVERYTHING. It seems like there is a dividing line there somewhere that is a little bit magical from the far side of it at least. Even if it stops feeling like magic once you cross it - and especially if you've always sat on this side of it.
They sound like an absolutely perfect example. They’ve hit a threshold that many seem to think you can live extravagantly at where in reality they simply are comfortably secure. Which is an amazing place to be, and fabulous.
I do wonder if the perception of the American dream by and large actually has shifted to be something extravagant too though (like media influence, consumer culture, etc etc), which makes the reality of wage stagnation/cost increases sting even more
YES re: the dream shifting and consumer culture. I think both are true. The difference between how my parents grew up to how I grew up and to now how my kids are growing up is drastic in the amount of money spent. Things like paying for extra curriculars vs having a paper route and not being able to keep the money. Hand-me-down and homemade vs new. Road trips for vacations vs international travel.
I think social media here is really fucking up people's perception of where they stand financially and as wawa said, feel the sting of wage stagnation in ways they probably didn't feel before. You see people's day to day lifestyles and spending in a way that you did not previously. So the in-your-face aspect of consumption and disposable income is so much worse. Especially because these things are seen in a vacuum and without the benefit of know the other choices that are being made to make that happen.
YES re: the dream shifting and consumer culture. I think both are true. The difference between how my parents grew up to how I grew up and to now how my kids are growing up is drastic in the amount of money spent. Things like paying for extra curriculars vs having a paper route and not being able to keep the money. Hand-me-down and homemade vs new. Road trips for vacations vs international travel.
I think social media here is really fucking up people's perception of where they stand financially and as wawa said, feel the sting of wage stagnation in ways they probably didn't feel before. You see people's day to day lifestyles and spending in a way that you did not previously. So the in-your-face aspect of consumption and disposable income is so much worse. Especially because these things are seen in a vacuum and without the benefit of know the other choices that are being made to make that happen.
This is certainly true for me, I admit. I see people's houses or vacations etc and I definitely compare it to my own life and feel lacking. I'm trying to get better about it but it can be hard.
YES re: the dream shifting and consumer culture. I think both are true. The difference between how my parents grew up to how I grew up and to now how my kids are growing up is drastic in the amount of money spent. Things like paying for extra curriculars vs having a paper route and not being able to keep the money. Hand-me-down and homemade vs new. Road trips for vacations vs international travel.
I think social media here is really fucking up people's perception of where they stand financially and as wawa said, feel the sting of wage stagnation in ways they probably didn't feel before. You see people's day to day lifestyles and spending in a way that you did not previously. So the in-your-face aspect of consumption and disposable income is so much worse. Especially because these things are seen in a vacuum and without the benefit of know the other choices that are being made to make that happen.
I'm sure my lifestyle looks way more extravagant from the facebook view. Like I'm not taking pictures of my galaxy 5 and my 13 year old tube TV, right? Fuck no. I'm taking pictures of my goddamn boat.
I think the point of the article is literally just to show what 100k means to different people in different locations. The article starts out talking about the tax bill etc so I think the article wasn't trying to elicit sympathy for these people, per se, but it was more trying to show "100k isn't rolling in it for many people for a variety of factors" so when we talk about tax increases for those making 100k, 200k, 500k - what are those income levels really like? It doesn't mean someone making 500k is "struggling" but I think it can be helpful to have an understanding of what different income levels mean realistically. Its not unlike the HCOL budget posts or high income budget posts that used to be regularly posted on MM.
This is my take on it, and honestly, captures a bit how I feel personally right now. I'm not struggling personally, and while I can afford a tax increase and acknowledge exactly how fortunate I am, I would be full of it to say that the current tax discussions don't sting. It's demoralizing seeing the increases basically targeting my income bracket (and those below me) to give decreases to people who make a shit ton more money than I do, knowing everything that is either currently being cut/gutted or will be in the future to pay for this crap. Am I going to be skipping my electric bill to afford it? Of course not, but it's not like there is no impact either.
Yes, this frustrates me so much. I can afford not to get a refund next year (we purposely overpay because we love interest free loans to the government). It would probably only affect us in that we won't take a trip or do work on the house that isn't yet necessary, but we want to do it. If that money were to go to people who can't afford health insurance, can't feed themselves or their family, need to work 2-3 part time jobs just to pay rent, to keep those with lower incomes able to take tax deductions for whatever they need, etc. I'd be perfectly happy. Or like... to let those who do have debt for "stupid" reasons (or just life reasons) know that they have a social safety net in the event of a job loss, injury, car replacement, etc.
But to go to the government to make sure that the richest of the rich get to pay less in taxes? Yes, I'm pissed. Not to mention, I can help with some issues by volunteering and donating more to the causes I already support. But with less disposable income AND essentially a useless deduction for donations, I need to think about what is reasonable to give monetarily.
So basically, I will pay more in taxes, the poor will not get it, and my disposable income may not end up going to organizations to help said poor because I have less of it. So much for trickle down economics!
I never understood "the american dream" to be being able to do anything you please without having to budget and make financial choices. I'm confused by that characterization of it. Since when is that the case? Is that really what people mean??
I do think most people who are truly at median HHI look at 100k as where you'd "have it made" to an extent in that you have some breathing room. If your kid outgrows his shoes faster than you anticipated you can just go BUY MORE. A car repair doesn't mean going into the red that month. etc. And for all but those with something like a crippling amount of medical debt or student loans, that probably IS the case. And these stories seem to bear that out? I don't totally understand the point of this NPR piece.
I have to agree with this. My family really struggled when I was a kid, and I now have a household income of right around $100k, in a fairly high COL area in the Philly suburbs. Compared to my childhood, I feel rich. We can buy clothes and shoes (on sale, at places like Penny's and Target and Kohls) when we need them. We regularly get take out for dinner, just because I don't feel like cooking. My kids are not in expensive activities, but the fact that they can each choose an activity each season feels like a luxury. We go on vacations, even if it means maximizing the use of credit card points or piggy backing off friends vacations. We have two cars.
None of these things were true for me growing up. Yes, we have to make choices and save up for larger expenses, and yes, we are surrounded by people who can afford much more than we can. But overall, I feel fortunate on the income we have.
I agree, I feel very blessed by what we have so I try to recognize this. My childhood was Kmart layaway once a year, I slept on a mattress on the floor (or straight up on the floor) and the truck my mom drove had a hole rusted in the floorboard so if you stepped wrong, your foot could go through. My parents struggled until I was a teenager, so there was no college fund and no help paying when I started like some of the other kids I went to school with. My oldest has no idea how lucky he is already and some days it’s really a struggle to not yell at him because of it.
I was just venting to H this morning that it feels like we will never be able to buy a house. We finally have a healthy savings account. But with daycare now starting, the amount we can save each month is going to plummet. It's not the payment that's the issue but the down payment. I just added up that our rent, student loans, and daycare costs total $54,688 per year, so yes, saving for a down payment is difficult. And I'm not really sure how we would afford daycare for a second - to be really honest, we would probably have to temporarily stop our retirement contributions.
I just ran the same calculation. We have two in daycare and we rent in a HCOL (maybe VHCOL?) city. Luckily we don't have student loans. Our annual cost for child care and rent is $70k. We don't expect to buy a house ever--in fact, we used some of the money we had saved as a house downpayment fund to rent a townhouse versus an apartment, since we figure this is where our kids will grow up. Yes, we are absolutely privileged, and our HHI is just over the six figure mark, but it definitely isn't the life I imagined when I picture a six-figure income.
My coworker, who is single with no kids, came into my office last week sobbing. Management docked her paycheck, for a stupid reason, by what probably amounts to about $100. Now, I'd be PISSED. But it would not impact my day to day life at all, because I have a spouse who earns more than I do. Coworker was sobbing because it meant she couldn't pay rent. She doesn't make bad financial decisions (any more than any one else). She works full time in a job that requires a masters degree.
In the face of that reality, the comfort to pay bills reliably absolutely feels like a luxury.
(Also I live in a shitty 2 bedroom apartment...just did the math of rent + student loans + daycare and I'm also right around 50k/year just for that.).
We have lived in a LCOL area with a combined income of over 100k, and now we live in a MCOL to HCOL area with an income well under 100k (I quit to stay at home). We have everything we could need at our salary now: cars, nice house, clothes, gas, and usually do a family trip every other year. I would not say we are struggling or low income, but we don't save much of anything outside of my husband's mandatory retirement savings.
I still plan on going back to work in the next few years mainly because of healthcare. We do fine on good health years but do not have the extra 10-14k a year we need if we have a bad health year.
Post by notsocreepylurker on Dec 5, 2017 15:54:47 GMT -5
I am 42, single, no kids (just a very spoiled kitty) and I rent still. I make about $75K** a year before bonus (that can add $1K-$10K). I live in Houston (MCOL?) - the west side which is pricier than further out but cheaper than closer in. My 1 bedroom apartment (like a townhome really) is $1,100/month rent only. Utilities adds about $300/month. I am not struggling - not at all. I make stupid money decisions. I could have more saved. But I am OK. I am OK paying some more in taxes if it meant helping those less fortunate.
My parents both worked for the state in Education in NJ. We lived in Essex County. When they first got together in the last 1960s they barely could afford their monthly bills. Both grew up VERY poor (like white bread & mayonnaise sandwhiches poor). Mom was a penny pincher. Would squeeze soy sauce packets from the chinese takeout into our soy sauce bottle. Never wasted anything.
BUT since they are boomers - by the time they retired in the last 5 years or so they have state pensions for retirement. And Social Security. And Free/very low cost medical care. I joked mom made more in retirement per month than I do. But my paycheck has to pay for higher premiums than theirs did. And much more for retirement. I say I don't count on Social Security when I am able to retire at 72+.
I guess all that to say... I have always thought making $100K+ per year was BALLIN! But I was looking at my parent's lifestyle when things were easier to attain for the "American Dream"
**I only got bumped up to $75K from like $67K because I was supposed to move to the Portland, OR office and COL if 30%+ higher there so the raise was to offset some of that.
I do know people who make probably similar to what we do and really feel slighted by what the world hasn't given them. Feeling that you deserve XYZ because you "work hard" when you just work a job like anybody else, just seems silly to me. Not realizing that having your own home and basic necessities and luxuries like buying a coffee or a shirt you just liked the look of, is privileged in itself and still pretty common I think to not even realize that this is a life of luxury not a basic life of scarcity you are picturing it as in your head.
I actually find the sentiment of "I work hard so I deserve stuff" mentality to be pretty annoying especially since the people who say that to me usually work a desk job. I work a desk job and it's really pretty luxurious to sit at a desk and make enough money to pay your bills? I think about my dad who did manual labor his whole life to feed us, and now his body is all screwed up and I just feel thankful I was able to go to college and now I just get to sit all day for more money than he ever made. Very lucky really.
I hate the phrase, "I work hard so..." It implies people working minimum wage or low-pay jobs DON'T work hard so they don't deserve shit.
I know it drives me insane. Recently I saw a post on fb regarding the taxes and someone said they were high earners and bust their asses so why should they pay more taxes. I informed her that one’s HHI is not directly related to if they bust their asses. I was told to get off my high horse :/
I hate the phrase, "I work hard so..." It implies people working minimum wage or low-pay jobs DON'T work hard so they don't deserve shit.
I know it drives me insane. Recently I saw a post on fb regarding the taxes and someone said they were high earners and bust their asses so why should they pay more taxes. I informed her that one’s HHI is not directly related to if they bust their asses. I was told to get off my high horse :/
Did you just say, "Fine, I'll trot out of your post, but I like the perspective up here - affords me more views of my and my friends' privileges"
I grew up likely “lower middle class”? Layaways for clothes, lots of hand me downs, nothing was wasted and there weren’t fancy vacations. We never went hungry, but I heard “no, we can’t afford that” quite a bit. And THAT life was WAY better than what my parents had growing up.
So the fact that we hit a HHI over 6 figures feels pretty luxurious, even though it’s far from stress free.
Then again, neither of us feel the need to “keep up with the Jones’”, I stepped OUT of the workforce to SAH (which has its own long term ramifications) but is a LUXURY, and we aren’t planning on paying for our son’s college education, gifting him a car, etc.
We aren’t over the $100k mark at this point with me being a SAHM, but we are comfortable? The bills are paid, we have savings/investments/retirement savings.
We talk about me going back to work but then debate the value of $xx thousand a year after paying for childcare.
It really *does* come down to what individuals perceive as the “American dream” and wants vs. needs.
Even with dumb stuff. Like we have a Dirt Devil vacuum cleaner whereas MOST of our friends rave about their Dustin’s or their “robot” vacuums or whatever. My $30 Dirt Devil cleans the carpets - it just needs a little elbow grease sometimes. I’d rather be able to order Chinese or pizza or get my nails done than have a $400 vacuum...
Post by rupertpenny on Dec 5, 2017 19:53:22 GMT -5
This is only somewhat related, but I am always amazed that people can buy houses. We have a pretty high HHI and it feels like it will never be possible so we don't even really think about it as a real option. I am always a little in awe of people who own property.
It's such a complicated thing. On one hand, I see how consumer driven we all are and how easy it is to measure how we're doing but the stuff we have. We had a recent come to Jesus about our spending because a lot of luxuries we took as a given with two working parents (house cleaner, spendy gym membership, cable, doggie daycare, etc.) were really adding up and making us feel squeezed. And don't even get me started on the ridiculous expectations (from kids, family, ourselves, the general culture) re: holiday gift giving. It's absurd. So it's pretty silly to feel "strapped" given all of these trappings (again, talking about my own situation here).
At the same time, there has been a very real decrease in the type of life a particular job/salary can afford you in terms of the big things like home ownership, retirement, healthcare, education etc. I know a number of older/retired teachers who own homes in extremely $$ parts of Seattle because that was affordable on a teacher's salary back in the 80s. They were able to own a nice home, send their kids to college and retire at a reasonable age. That all just seems so out of reach for young people in similar situations today.
I'm very grateful for what we have but sometimes it gets overwhelming thinking about funding retirement, contributing to our girls' college education (we certainly don't want them saddled with an overwhelming student loan burden) while also paying $2,500/month on school/child care and the same on our mortgage payment.
All of this is just ramblings on my own stuff but I guess what I'm saying is that I understand how easy it is to feel stretched on an income that seems like "a lot."
This is only somewhat related, but I am always amazed that people can buy houses. We have a pretty high HHI and it feels like it will never be possible so we don't even really think about it as a real option. I am always a little in awe of people who own property.
I remember when we bought (both times, actually) the MM board was horrified at the mortgage amount vs. our income. But it was actually a good thing we stretched as our mortgage now is less than rents in our area.