People are going to fucking die because of this decision. It’s outrageous. I was going to text you last night fryjack2, but I was so tired I forgot to hit send, lol
I think it got mentioned in another thread but I think it deserves its own.
I'm trying to follow and I'm not well versed in Middle Eastern politics, so forgive me if these questions are ignorant.
Is the issue that Jerusalem, as a whole, does not "belong" to Israel? Part of it belongs to the Palestinians? So by declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel, we would be "insulting" the Palestinians? (I have that in quotes because I know it would be more than just an insult but could not think of a better word.)
Where do other countries have their embassies? Tel Aviv?
What does Israel consider its capital - Jerusalem or Tel Aviv? It seems weird to me that we are going to say "your capital is Jerusalem" if the government is seated in Tel Aviv, along with all other embassies.
Post by cattledogkisses on Dec 6, 2017 9:51:58 GMT -5
In addition to potentially igniting the powder keg that is the Middle East, I can only imagine that this will create a very unsafe situation for the US State Dept and military personnel who will be stationed at our embassy there.
After the uproar about Benghazi I'm appalled that this administration would do something that will place US embassy staff in danger.
bex, the Jewish parliament, known as the Knesset, is in Jerusalem.
Someone else will be better equipped to offer background, but many peace negotiations envision dividing Jerusalem among the two countries. So this could be seen as a sign that the U.S. is not backing a two-state solution. I assume the embassy would be located in Western Jerusalem, the Jewish section.
I don't get Trump's end game here, other than to simply cause chaos and piss people off.
It’s something his right wing Christian base wants (plus the Kushners and Bibi). He’s giving it to them. That’s the only thought behind it.
i also think it's something he campaigned on & that he can actually do...he hasn't been able to deliver on much of his promised bullshit, so he feels in control & it makes him smug that he can/will do something that Obama couldn't or wouldn't do (for good reason)
(Yes, definitely deserves its own thread, & I apologize, as I didn’t mean to bury it in the daily-45)
I’m so disgusted at how THOUGHTLESS this is/ seems! His cabinet members wholeheartedly disagree with this decision! It sincerely seems like a distraction to stoke controversy in an attempt to take attention from the Mueller investigation, which is alarming & ignorant to the nth degree!
Jerusalem is a holy land for the Jewish, Muslim, and Christian faiths. By declaring it the capital of Israel, a Jewish State, the U.S. is declaring it belongs to that faith.
This is terrible. I don't think any of this is thoughtless. I don't think they either care or honestly they may want retaliation because it fits into his completely false bullshit narrative about Muslims. Also distraction from his current issues like Mueller and any easy "win" for his shitty base.
NPR was talking to Palestinians in Jerusalem and one person was that they hoped this would ignite a fire in Palestinians who have become complacent with the state of affairs.
45 is definitely doing this because it is one thing he CAN do. Also, is he having intel briefings? A few presidents have campaigned that they would do this, but once they get in office find out how detrimental it will be, they back off.
Jared financially backs so many organizations that want Jerusalem to be Israeli occupied only. This is on him trying to influence his dumbass FIL.
#45 has already shown multiple times his anti Muslim anti Arab hate. Like last week's fake news Muslim terror tweets!
Being the 1st president to do something not been done in almost 100 years when it comes to the Israeli Palestinian conflict MIGHT be for a very good reason, you stupid white racist old turd!!
This asshole wants a war. He will have blood in his hands and blame the Palestinians.
And there will be nothing anyone can do because he listens to no one.
NPR was talking to Palestinians in Jerusalem and one person was that they hoped this would ignite a fire in Palestinians who have become complacent with the state of affairs.
45 is definitely doing this because it is one thing he CAN do. Also, is he having intel briefings? A few presidents have campaigned that they would do this, but once they get in office find out how detrimental it will be, they back off.
He is going to get people killed.
I am sure 45 wanted the Palestinians enraged so violence would happen and he could point to more reasons why Muslims are the devil
I think it got mentioned in another thread but I think it deserves its own.
I'm trying to follow and I'm not well versed in Middle Eastern politics, so forgive me if these questions are ignorant.
Is the issue that Jerusalem, as a whole, does not "belong" to Israel? Part of it belongs to the Palestinians? So by declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel, we would be "insulting" the Palestinians? (I have that in quotes because I know it would be more than just an insult but could not think of a better word.)
Where do other countries have their embassies? Tel Aviv?
What does Israel consider its capital - Jerusalem or Tel Aviv? It seems weird to me that we are going to say "your capital is Jerusalem" if the government is seated in Tel Aviv, along with all other embassies.
Jerusalem is divided, and the Eastern part is supposed to belong to the Palestinians. In reality is is occupied completely by Israel, and the government has allowed a ton of “growth” into the territory which is displacing the Palestinians and stealing their land. The government seat, the Knesset is in Jerusalem, in the part that is Israel.
The embassies to Israel have all been in Tel Aviv since 2006, but there are some embassies in Jerusalem that are not “assigned” to Israel or Palestine but instead are attached to the city itself.
Thanks for answering. I know this is a complicated and personal topic for many.
Does Israel itself want the US embassy in Jerusalem?
I know Trump does what he wants and when and I'm sure this is being pushed by Kushner, but I saw that even Saudi Arabia (which Trump seems to respect) is saying "don't do this." so who DOES want him to do it?
Can somebody explain this part? Why was this law passed to begin with?
Congress passed a law in 1995 mandating that the embassy be located in Jerusalem, but presidents have consistently overridden the law since then. The waiver Trump signed in June allowed the embassy to remain in Tel Aviv for six months, until Dec. 1.
@fryjack What is your perspective/opinion on what is going to happen?
I’m heartbroken about this. I don’t even have words.
What do I think is going to happen?
The same thing that everyone else with half a brain thinks- war. And the loss of many lives. And the blame on Palestians. And Palestinian lives to be even more awful. And Muslims to be even more feared and hated all over the world.
Can somebody explain this part? Why was this law passed to begin with?
Congress passed a law in 1995 mandating that the embassy be located in Jerusalem, but presidents have consistently overridden the law since then. The waiver Trump signed in June allowed the embassy to remain in Tel Aviv for six months, until Dec. 1.
I’ve always understood this to be symbolic - to be like “we’re so supportive of Israel!” But then everyone knows it’s absolutely insane and also unfair to the Palestinians so it was passed with the understanding it would never be done
Jerusalem is a holy land for the Jewish, Muslim, and Christian faiths. By declaring it the capital of Israel, a Jewish State, the U.S. is declaring it belongs to that faith.
No, he's declaring that it belongs to the State of Israel, that Israel now has complete political control of the area and is formally recognized by an ally nation as such. It's not about religion. It's bigger, more powerful, and more dangerous than that. It's about political and economic control.
I think it's very important in these discussions to separate the religious/faith group component. Yes, the majority Israelis are Jews. Yes, a majority of Palestinians are not Jews, but this is not about faith groups, who is Jew/Muslim/Christian/Druze etc. It's about who controls the land and the military and who has the power. Israel has the power and it just got more powerful with this move.
**disclaimer** I am a Jew. I support Israel's right to existence. I don't support Israel's right to be a dick to other people and nations who feel they have a claim to the same land. I am not an authority on this conflict, but many people do feel that as a Jew, I have a conflict of interest in supporting the rights of a free Palestine. I disagree.
Can somebody explain this part? Why was this law passed to begin with?
Congress passed a law in 1995 mandating that the embassy be located in Jerusalem, but presidents have consistently overridden the law since then. The waiver Trump signed in June allowed the embassy to remain in Tel Aviv for six months, until Dec. 1.
I’ve always understood this to be symbolic - to be like “we’re so supportive of Israel!” But then everyone knows it’s absolutely insane and also unfair to the Palestinians so it was passed with the understanding it would never be done
Wasnt that during Gingrich years? I could see him being an ideologue but others going along for appearances only.
Ack AJL I misspoke. I did mean Israel as a state. The U.S. persons who push for this are doing so as “friends of Israel” - so Israel has full control over the land, which comports with their views on how it should be treated. Basically, they want the Palestinians cut out.
My husband, whose religious education is lacking to say the least, thought I was lying when I was trying to explain why this is something that his right-wing evangelical base wants. It's that absurd. 45 is such a piece of shit.
My husband, whose religious education is lacking to say the least, thought I was lying when I was trying to explain why this is something that his right-wing evangelical base wants. It's that absurd. 45 is such a piece of shit.
What did your husband think?
Not being snarky. Just curious about what other people's understanding of the situation is.