Atlantic: Are Private Schools Immoral?

[bronxgirl]

Based on my unscientific anecdotal observations the above quote is pretty accurate. There's always some other reason why public school is no longer "the right fit for our child/family", but somehow never articulated.

[sushi]

I'm a product of private school. It was secular. And, yes, the public school was majority black (immigrant) and "failing" (Jeb Bush days). But my private school wasn't wasp. Majority Jewish, had students from across the world. Literally. There was a small boarding program.

So immoral? Id say no. Because i don't attach morality to finding education. My high school is ranked top in the country. I'm privileged to access it, absolutely. But i don't consider it immoral to seek it.

I have lots of words about fundie education. Wrong is more likely than immoral, but I'll use both. They isolate religiously, scientifically, maybe (likely) racially. But not all private is for that reason.

[winecat]

Yeah.... I got into an argument with someone stumping for our last school board election. He tried to convince me that charter/magnet schools are good for everyone. I'm white and I think he was honestly surprised he didn't have my automatic support. I'm white but also grew up really poor so my perspective is different from my neighbors.

On my block there are 9 school age kids. The parents drive them ALL to different schools. The kids who walk to our "failing" neighborhood schools are all brown kids. Many of my white friends moved to Stapleton "for the schools." The fact that my outrageous property taxes aren't helping the school around the corner is shitty.

[sillygoosegirl]

Is it any more moral to move your family to a rich white neighborhood where the public school is all other rich white kids?

[CheeringCharm]

I mean at base, it is hypocritical to publicly say you value one thing (in this case, diversity in thought and experience in public schools; equality of opportunity and outcomes) but then seek the exact opposite if you are privileged enough to do so. Being able to afford a private school that charges $30k or more per year is clearly not going to lead to a socioeconomic diversity among the student population, especially given the structure of white privilege that currently exists. Yes there will be a few students who are given scholarships but not enough to tip the balance.

I liked her phrase "curated diversity." That captures a tricky phenomenon so well. I hope it catches on because I don't think it is something that white people can deny is happening.

[pixy0stix]

Dec 16, 2017 10:42:26 GMT -5 sushi said:

My high school is ranked top in the country. I'm privileged to access it, absolutely. But i don't consider it immoral to seek it.

I

Ranking of private schools is a racket. Of course you’re top ranked when you can control the population.

[seeyalater52]

I absolutely think it’s immoral. And hypocritical. But I also think charter schools are immoral so I’m definitely a hard-liner on this topic.

[05heel]

Yes. The public school system is immoral too. Every public institution in this immoral country is immoral.

White people know this, so they start to justify and make comparisons about which choice is less immoral, as if that really matters. I also disagree with the premise in the article that integrated education benefits everyone. My parents went to segregated schools, and will tell you all day that it was a better experience than what their children had.

[konapoppy]

This is a great article.

The idea of curated diversity is playing out in my city right now. White families are rapidly becoming the minority (particularly white families with kids). They are either moving to the parts of the city where they are more likely to get into the “white” schools or moving to other towns to get their “white” schools. While the schools are well funded and supported, the population migrating in tends to be more invested in education and the white kids don’t perform as well, so rather than see the opportunity that is provided with diversity when all kids do better, white families are moving to a place where only white kids do better. Essentially they are actually moving their kids to a situation where on an absolute basis they are like to get a lesser education, but on a relative basis they are at the top. It isn’t shocking given the racism in our country, but a great example of white liberals (and conservatives) being stupid.

Which brings me to this:

“The most segregated parts of the country are all in the progressive North. If you could just get white liberals to live their values, you could have a significant amount of integration.” I am going to quote this to parents I know out here.

[CheeringCharm]

Dec 16, 2017 11:06:56 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Is it any more moral to move your family to a rich white neighborhood where the public school is all other rich white kids?

No. But they cover that in the article too.

I think the title is a bit misleading. It’s not just about private schools, it’s really about school integration.

[05heel]

Dec 16, 2017 11:29:27 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

Dec 16, 2017 11:06:56 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Is it any more moral to move your family to a rich white neighborhood where the public school is all other rich white kids?

No. But they cover that in the article too.

I think the title is a bit misleading. It’s not just about private schools, it’s really about school integration.

I agree with you on the title. This is really about valuing and equal education for all, which we know doesn’t happen.

What gets me is that this is a purely white people phenomenon. Minority parents don’t care who else is getting a good education, but for white people education is a sick zero sum game where they only feel like they’re getting their fair share if brown kids are getting less.

[konapoppy]

Dec 16, 2017 11:34:01 GMT -5 05heel said:

Dec 16, 2017 11:29:27 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

No. But they cover that in the article too.

I think the title is a bit misleading. It’s not just about private schools, it’s really about school integration.

I agree with you on the title. This is really about valuing and equal education for all, which we know doesn’t happen.

What gets me is that this is a purely white people phenomenon. Minority parents don’t care who else is getting a good education, but for white people education is a sick zero sum game where they only feel like they’re getting their fair share if brown kids are getting less.

Yes, this is what I was trying to get at but of course this is much more precise.

[Jalapeñomel]

Dec 16, 2017 10:27:16 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

Based on my unscientific anecdotal observations the above quote is pretty accurate. There's always some other reason why public school is no longer "the right fit for our child/family", but somehow never articulated.

This feels really prevalent here. Kids going to school in Brooklyn from the Bronx, all the affluent send their kids to the French school or whatever.

[crystald528]

In our very rural area, there is very little diversity of any kind. We see local private schools providing separation for some families from poor kids and special needs kids. It's easy to brag about your ranking/tests scores and excel at sports when all of your kids have enough to eat and you can control your class size by limiting enrollment.

My kids are lucky to have everything they need. I am glad to help provide extras for the classroom for families who need some help. What would we teach our kids if we pulled them to drive to another school where everyone has it easy? I dont deserve any credit for volunteering and donating when I can. It's what all of us should be doing to make it better for everyone.

[stever]

Dec 16, 2017 11:34:01 GMT -5 05heel said:

Dec 16, 2017 11:29:27 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

What gets me is that this is a purely white people phenomenon. Minority parents don’t care who else is getting a good education, but for white people education is a sick zero sum game where they only feel like they’re getting their fair share if brown kids are getting less.

And they’re open about it, which is terrifying.

[mskitkat]

Locally, my friend, a WOC, is strongly suggesting I send my daughter to the private school her son attends. When I moved to my area, the public school was reasonably diverse (about 50% white, 25% black, 25% Hispanic). Now they built a new elementary school and suddenly the elementary school we are zoned for is something like 80% white. It sucks. Another friend whose daughter is currently in the local elementary school said her daughter is the only non-white child in her class, which I decidedly do not want for my daughter. At the private school, my friend was able to suggest to the administration that she wished the teaching staff was more diverse. The next year, they hired 3 new teachers, all POC.

[tres3]

my private high school was way more diverse than my local public high school. Diversity at my local high school growing up was are you Irish Catholic or Polish Catholic. My private school had over 40% on financial aid and probably 50% non-white.

I support public school but there are reasons besides socio-economics people choose private school. Yes, it is a luxury to afford private school but when it is your kid, parents will often do what it takes whether it is move to a different district, private school, outside tutoring etc. when dealing with issues like bullying, dyslexia or other academic issues. 

[05heel]

Dec 16, 2017 12:12:33 GMT -5 tres3 said:

my private high school was way more diverse than my local public high school. Diversity at my local high school growing up was are you Irish Catholic or Polish Catholic. My private school had over 40% on financial aid and probably 50% non-white.

I support public school but there are reasons besides socio-economics people choose private school. Yes, it is a luxury to afford private school but when it is your kid, parents will often do what it takes whether it is move to a different district, private school, outside tutoring etc.

did you even read the article?

[tres3]

Dec 16, 2017 12:16:40 GMT -5 05heel said:

Dec 16, 2017 12:12:33 GMT -5 tres3 said:

my private high school was way more diverse than my local public high school. Diversity at my local high school growing up was are you Irish Catholic or Polish Catholic. My private school had over 40% on financial aid and probably 50% non-white.

I support public school but there are reasons besides socio-economics people choose private school. Yes, it is a luxury to afford private school but when it is your kid, parents will often do what it takes whether it is move to a different district, private school, outside tutoring etc.

did you even read the article?

Yes but I was responding to the other comments here that make it seem like all private is bad.

[seeyalater52]

Dec 16, 2017 12:12:33 GMT -5 tres3 said:

my private high school was way more diverse than my local public high school. Diversity at my local high school growing up was are you Irish Catholic or Polish Catholic. My private school had over 40% on financial aid and probably 50% non-white.

I support public school but there are reasons besides socio-economics people choose private school. Yes, it is a luxury to afford private school but when it is your kid, parents will often do what it takes whether it is move to a different district, private school, outside tutoring etc. when dealing with issues like bullying, dyslexia or other academic issues. 

These justifications are literally the epitome of what is being discussed in the article. Also this response is white-splainy af.

[andwhat]

I send my daughter to private school because she misses the cutoff and the public school won't accept her, yet. But a huge portion of the parents in my 90+% black neighborhood send their kids to private school. I just don't understand why we spend all this money on a house and all this money in taxes and then don't demand better schools for our kids. But hanging around message boards long enough, I see that many want their kid to be the one in the white private school who got the leg up and they really aren't interested in bringing up everyone else and creating more competition for their kid. It is really sad to see it all play out. Given the money and education in my neighborhood our school should be just as high performing as the ones down the street in the white(r) neighborhoods.

:now to read the article:

[tres3]

Dec 16, 2017 12:20:49 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Dec 16, 2017 12:12:33 GMT -5 tres3 said:

my private high school was way more diverse than my local public high school. Diversity at my local high school growing up was are you Irish Catholic or Polish Catholic. My private school had over 40% on financial aid and probably 50% non-white.

I support public school but there are reasons besides socio-economics people choose private school. Yes, it is a luxury to afford private school but when it is your kid, parents will often do what it takes whether it is move to a different district, private school, outside tutoring etc. when dealing with issues like bullying, dyslexia or other academic issues. 

These justifications are literally the epitome of what is being discussed in the article. Also this response is white-splainy af.

you know what? I've been fighting for my kid for years and I'm tired as fuck. Every school year should not be a fight to get him the services he is legally entitled to, so yes I'm applying to send him to a private school that has a robust dyslexia program. 

[seeyalater52]

Dec 16, 2017 12:22:54 GMT -5 tres3 said:

Dec 16, 2017 12:20:49 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

These justifications are literally the epitome of what is being discussed in the article. Also this response is white-splainy af.

you know what? I've been fighting for my kid for years and I'm tired as fuck. Every school year should not be a fight to get him the services he is legally entitled to, so yes I'm applying to send him to a private school that has a robust dyslexia program. 

You’re taking this personally. It’s not about YOU or your individual kid. In the aggregate white people fleeing public schools in favor of private in order to maintain segregation is a problem. If that problem doesn’t describe your circumstances don’t read into it.

[05heel]

Dec 16, 2017 12:22:54 GMT -5 tres3 said:

Dec 16, 2017 12:20:49 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

These justifications are literally the epitome of what is being discussed in the article. Also this response is white-splainy af.

you know what? I've been fighting for my kid for years and I'm tired as fuck. Every school year should not be a fight to get him the services he is legally entitled to, so yes I'm applying to send him to a private school that has a robust dyslexia program. 

Lol.  Tired as fuck.  You’re funny.  

[seeyalater52]

And writ large private schools are abysmal for addressing learning disabilities and other special educational needs so it feels a little disingenuous to imply that this very large, very widespread problem is driven in any meaningful way by the desire of white parents to better serve their children in that regard.

[05heel]

Dec 16, 2017 12:24:36 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Dec 16, 2017 12:22:54 GMT -5 tres3 said:

you know what? I've been fighting for my kid for years and I'm tired as fuck. Every school year should not be a fight to get him the services he is legally entitled to, so yes I'm applying to send him to a private school that has a robust dyslexia program. 

You’re taking this personally. It’s not about YOU or your individual kid. In the aggregate white people fleeing public schools in favor of private in order to maintain segregation is a problem. If that problem doesn’t describe your circumstances don’t read into it.

It’s what we call a hit dog hollering.  People tell on themselves so readily.  Let’s all be more stealth in 2018, shall we?

[seeyalater52]

Dec 16, 2017 12:26:49 GMT -5 05heel said:

Dec 16, 2017 12:24:36 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

You’re taking this personally. It’s not about YOU or your individual kid. In the aggregate white people fleeing public schools in favor of private in order to maintain segregation is a problem. If that problem doesn’t describe your circumstances don’t read into it.

It’s what we call a hit dog hollering.  People tell on themselves so readily.  Let’s all be more stealth in 2018, shall we?

But she’s the one who is tired as fuck! Lol.

[tres3]

Dec 16, 2017 12:24:36 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Dec 16, 2017 12:22:54 GMT -5 tres3 said:

you know what? I've been fighting for my kid for years and I'm tired as fuck. Every school year should not be a fight to get him the services he is legally entitled to, so yes I'm applying to send him to a private school that has a robust dyslexia program. 

You’re taking this personally. It’s not about YOU or your individual kid. In the aggregate white people fleeing public schools in favor of private in order to maintain segregation is a problem. If that problem doesn’t describe your circumstances don’t read into it.

it is the problem and I will fully admit but the schools don't seem willing to try to keep us either.  I shouldn't have to pull out my law degree to get the school to follow an IEP. Maybe my fight to enforce his IEP helps other kids but it seems like a losing battle and it is my kid's future at stake. 

[seeyalater52]

Dec 16, 2017 12:27:59 GMT -5 tres3 said:

Dec 16, 2017 12:24:36 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

You’re taking this personally. It’s not about YOU or your individual kid. In the aggregate white people fleeing public schools in favor of private in order to maintain segregation is a problem. If that problem doesn’t describe your circumstances don’t read into it.

it is the problem and I will fully admit but the schools don't seem willing to try to keep us either.  I shouldn't have to pull out my law degree to get the school to follow an IEP. Maybe my fight to enforce his IEP helps other kids but it seems like a losing battle and it is my kid's future at stake. 

White kids aren’t the only ones with IEPs. Look, you do you. I’m not saying you shouldn’t do the best you can for your kid. But understand that it’s privilege that allows you to do so. It’s absolutely immoral that white kids whose families have the money and other resources to do so CAN do better for their own kids while kids of color and without means don’t have a choice about where to attend school and no one working to improve things for them and the schools they attend. That to me is the definition of immoral.

[andwhat]

Dec 16, 2017 12:27:59 GMT -5 tres3 said:

Dec 16, 2017 12:24:36 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

You’re taking this personally. It’s not about YOU or your individual kid. In the aggregate white people fleeing public schools in favor of private in order to maintain segregation is a problem. If that problem doesn’t describe your circumstances don’t read into it.

it is the problem and I will fully admit but the schools don't seem willing to try to keep us either.  I shouldn't have to pull out my law degree to get the school to follow an IEP. Maybe my fight to enforce his IEP helps other kids but it seems like a losing battle and it is my kid's future at stake. 

Imagine being a non-white person and having those same issues. You are not special in that regard. And I have a hard time believing a private school is easier to navigate for someone with an IEP unless that private school is specifically geared for their needs. I say this as a person who has only ever gone to private school.