I always see posts like this with cats, never dogs. It's like so many people have problems with cats but nooo dogs are perfect.
But yes, I disagree with what you want to do. Not to get pearl clutchy, but why did you even adopt them to begin with? I'd never do that to any kind of pet.
That is becuase if the Nest/GBCN has taught me anything, it is okay to hate cats but not dogs.
I always see posts like this with cats, never dogs. It's like so many people have problems with cats but nooo dogs are perfect.
But yes, I disagree with what you want to do. Not to get pearl clutchy, but why did you even adopt them to begin with? I'd never do that to any kind of pet.
Really? There are so many posts about rehoming dogs on these boards (well the old nest anyway.). I think way more than cats.
FWIW, i had indoor/outdoor cats my whole life. if their lives were cut in half then we would have had some seriously old cats.
Ditto. I have 2 now, and my last one to die was 18 when he was eventually run over by my father
I'm sorry, but was that supposed to be an argument in favor of indoor/outdoor? Because it isn't.
Your cats are not barn cats. They are indoor cats. Your H, who came intothe situat ion eyes WIDE open, needs to suck it up and stop giving you this guilt trip bullshit for the duration of period during which you are singlehandedly growing his child.
I always see posts like this with cats, never dogs. It's like so many people have problems with cats but nooo dogs are perfect.
But yes, I disagree with what you want to do. Not to get pearl clutchy, but why did you even adopt them to begin with? I'd never do that to any kind of pet.
Hop on over the bump and you'll see them constantly.
Ditto. I have 2 now, and my last one to die was 18 when he was eventually run over by my father
I'm sorry, but was that supposed to be an argument in favor of indoor/outdoor? Because it isn't.
Your cats are not barn cats. They are indoor cats. Your H, who came intothe situat ion eyes WIDE open, needs to suck it up and stop giving you this guilt trip bullshit for the duration of period during which you are singlehandedly growing his child.
LOLs that the the asking everybody we know if they want a cat and observing casually that our cats would probably make really good barn mousers and talking about when would be a good time to deliver the cats to the farm will stop once I'm done gestating.
Post by ringstrue on Sept 17, 2012 13:23:48 GMT -5
Ok, imma give you my long answer cuz I've seen many a barn cat and I get where you are coming from. There are a lot of nice barns and barns DO need barn cats.
The outdoor cat stat of a shorter life expectancy does still apply to barn cats because its not about the quality of your barn as a shelter, as much as the fact that your cat can come and go as it pleases to the woods, other houses, the road, get under foot of horses (!!!) get scratched, get into fights, get injured from jumps, falls, rusty whatnots, come into contact with raccoons and skunks, etc. etc.
Barn cats need every shot in the book and need a really strict schedule. Truly, a well taken care of barn cat will cost you more in the long run from all the dang shots and de-wormings and all the injuries you gotta get them fixed up for. Any well cared for barn cat STILL needs to be able to to come inside the house when its too cold outside or when they are recovering from an injury or illness or when they are too sick to "barn cat" any more.
So if your sis takes them she needs to ensure she could keep them indoors if the need arises. She also needs to ensure she'd be militant about all those vet needs.
I agree with the barn cat idea for feral cats (like, if you adopted a 100% feral somehow) cuz a house setup of pretty much any sort is just not doable and unless you wanna cover all the walls with burlap and tree limbs. Still, that idea sorta falls apart since they have to be caught for shots and wormings and whatnot.
indoor/outdoor is your best bet in THIS scenario but anytime they go outdoors for a while they are prone to those issues.
I've been down the new parent road with two LONG haired cats and luckily the cats are still under my roof. If you can have a plan where you can kick the cats in the basement or spare room if needed, can cover their furiest areas with some sort of hair-proof covering (like polyester or faux fur) and get some sort of litter box system going that works for you (automatic litterbox???) then your stress could be better maintained.
It's also best to have a zero cats tolerance for your bedroom, or at the very least, buy a bedspread that is cat fur proof like a polyester or statin-y covering. We've slowly but surely replaced all our fur clinging materials with whatever we find that works to not hold hair. We don't buy fleece anything anymore and certain pants materials are off limits.
Honestly, being pg and a baby parent is hard but it's also temporary. I'd recommend keeping your cat in the basement or spare room for a whole year or so before recommending to rehome it.
I always see posts like this with cats, never dogs. It's like so many people have problems with cats but nooo dogs are perfect.
But yes, I disagree with what you want to do. Not to get pearl clutchy, but why did you even adopt them to begin with? I'd never do that to any kind of pet.
That is becuase if the Nest/GBCN has taught me anything, it is okay to hate cats but not dogs.
Well, I'm all set because I hate both. Also, turtles (Hi Heyjude! xoxoxo)
I always see posts like this with cats, never dogs. It's like so many people have problems with cats but nooo dogs are perfect.
But yes, I disagree with what you want to do. Not to get pearl clutchy, but why did you even adopt them to begin with? I'd never do that to any kind of pet.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
Post by ringstrue on Sept 17, 2012 13:35:56 GMT -5
Ooh I forgot another.
You can't observe their bathroom habits. Males are prone to UTIs in relation to calcium sediment in their urethras. So if you aren't scooping a box or watching your cat run up and downstairs all day you aren't gonna catch something like that until its too late (I'll spare you the details) and they have to be put down.
Kidney and other organ issues can be caught quickly and so dealt with much easier when you notice changes in their poop.
Even if the end answer is to put them down, you can put them down when they aren't suffering too bad versus finding them writhing or when they are too bad off to stand up any more.
wawa, I agree with the people that say it would be better to give the cats to a stranger than to let them live outdoors permanently. If that's impossible, you should keep them. I'm of the opinion that there's big difference between a cat that lives outside versus a cat that lives indoors but is occasionally let outside for short periods of time during the day. I don't have a huge issue with the latter, as that's what my parents have always had. (Anecdote! The first one lived 14 years and died in his sleep. The one my parents got after that is over age 16 and is still going strong.)
If the cats were already feral, then it would be fine to put them in the barn. But I am really bothered by taking house cats and just dumping them in a barn.
Post by pixy0stix on Sept 17, 2012 13:42:16 GMT -5
One other thing, don't be surprised if your cats act out once they get back from their "trial." You're going to be stressing them out to the max of their little kitty brains. They're going to be dumped in an unfamiliar setting, with access to outside where they don't normally get to go, with other animals (presumably other cats), etc. One of my cats would be fine with this, the other two would be batshit out of their minds crazy and I'd be dealing with piss and shit in my house for months afterwards.
Cats don't do well with any change. Period.
Also, not all cats make good mousers. They have to be taught by their mothers to hunt. It's a learned behavior.
This is what I'd do. I'd also probably still give them away after being flamed on here, and just not say anything. If you and your husband are this unhappy with the cats, you need to be happy.
Unlike you two, wawa actually likes cats. so.....
yeah, I was wondering whether that was worth pointing out.
I'm not sure where I've given the impression that I don't like my cats. Or even that this has anything to do with having a kid, except tangentially.
Anyway, thanks everybody for your perspectives. Particularly pixy for the articles I can forward to MH to explain why I'm resisting so hard.
Post by ringstrue on Sept 17, 2012 13:47:41 GMT -5
See now I'm getting all excited about barn cats #dork
I worked at a camp in VT with their horse program and we had these hella legit mouser cats that all the hardcore outdoor people brought. It was nuts cause the cats were 100% outdoor (its a camp, for cripes sake) so not even at night did they come in.
We had mice out the WAZOO - it was so gross. Campers would find baby mice in their boots all the time, and they would have granola bars and snack packs on them so we attracted them like whoa.
I think I read that a good mouser eats about 12 mice a day. I witnessed many a mouse slaying and eating. So gross, but quick and necessary.
With a bad mouser, you are gonna just have dead rodents everywhere when you really just want the mice gone.
One other thing, don't be surprised if your cats act out once they get back from their "trial." You're going to be stressing them out to the max of their little kitty brains. They're going to be dumped in an unfamiliar setting, with access to outside where they don't normally get to go, with other animals (presumably other cats), etc. One of my cats would be fine with this, the other two would be batshit out of their minds crazy and I'd be dealing with piss and shit in my house for months afterwards.
Cats don't do well with any change. Period.
Also, not all cats make good mousers. They have to be taught by their mothers to hunt. It's a learned behavior.
I've been pleasantly surprised by their ability to deal with all the nonsense going on at our house thus far (like all the furniture moving every 2 weeks, stange people tromping around all day, constant loud noises, etc), but thanks for reminding me to be braced for issues anew.
I don't have a choice about getting them out of the house for that week "trial" since the house will be full of drying polyurathane. It's either my sister's place or a kennel, and with my cat's personalities, my sister's place is the less likely of the two to give them the heebie jeebies.
Not exactly the same, but my dad's dog was just killed by a donkey on his farm. So I'm feeling particularly anti-barn cat, especially because the cat has not been a barn cat before.
Post by msmerymac on Sept 17, 2012 14:01:02 GMT -5
FWIW, I don't have a problem with the existence of barn cats. They serve a purpose on a farm. My BFF growing up lived on a working dairy farm and the only cats they had were barn cats. Who would inevitably die shortly after birth, wander away (in tact males, mostly), or die early deaths in other ways. My friend loved cats, always named the kittens, was sad when they didn't make it, and was jealous of the fact that I had house cats I could snuggle with.
BUT your cats aren't barn cats. They are house cats. That's the life they are used to. I had an indoor-only house cat as a kid who was also a good mouser. We lived in an area with a few farms and would occasionally get field mice in our basement, so that's how we know. But that didn't justify throwing her outside to catch all the mice she wanted.
Also, my life has gotten remarkably easier by having a set day to clean the litter. We dump it every Wednesday. Either me or my husband will do it (if I've done it the last time or last 2 times, or if I'm busy making dinner or doing something else, he does it. If he's out at a kickball game or working late or whatever, I know to do it). We scoop the box about every other day - realistically, we do it Saturday and Monday. We have 3 boxes, but the cats really only use 2.
Also, my cats are jerks about nails and brushing. They go to the groomer every 3 months. And yeah, it costs money, but it's a lot easier for me, IMO.
Post by foundmylazybum on Sept 17, 2012 14:05:11 GMT -5
A lot of your problems seem solvable. The poop issues, the scratching and the meowing are all things you can solve. Even keeping them out of the bay window. The fact that you would put them to be mostly outdoors is concerning for their overall health to me. It's a big change.
As you have kind of hinted, safe barns for feral or outdoor cats are kind of at a premium. It's hard to get feral cats into good barns.
Honestly it makes me sad to think that your cats (who don't really need to be barn cats) are taking two spots for cats who could benefit from your sisters barn.
FWIW, i had indoor/outdoor cats my whole life. if their lives were cut in half then we would have had some seriously old cats.
Same here. In fact, all of our cats have been indoor/outdoor. I've heard the 1/2 life expectancy before, but that would have meant my cat were slated to live to about 30 y.o., so in our individual situation that just hasn't shown to be true. IIRC, this is one of Pixy's sort of surprise issues. Like, I wouldn't have guessed it but she cares about the issue a whole lot and has a whole lot of information about it, but that information just doesn't line up with my personal experience having indoor outdoor cats.
The article pixy linked isn't comparing indoor cats with indoor/outdoor cats. It's comparing them indoor to strictly outdoor.
I am sure there are risks associated with letting your pet outdoors, and those risks probably differ wildly depending on where you live.
Also, not all cats make good mousers. They have to be taught by their mothers to hunt. It's a learned behavior.
Really? My kitty hunts mice and I got her when she was a wee thing (would not have been old enough to hunt mice). She's straight O.G when it comes to hunting mice. Bless her little hear for being ill now.
Post by pixy0stix on Sept 17, 2012 14:15:06 GMT -5
Nuh uh, Toledo, anecdotes totes defeat statistics!
Speaking of anecdotes, I've seen barn cats die the following ways: Neck punctured by rats, mangled by coyotes, chopped up in engines (several times), maggot infected wounds (found and took to the vet too late), ran over by cars, tore apart by neighbor dogs, poison from neighbors poisoning their mouse population and the cats eating those mice, and baled into hay bales by a hay baler (lost a whole litter that way, the itty paws were sticking out of the bales ).
So yes, barn cats are a necessity, but lets not romanticize their lives. They're hard and brutally short.
Also, not all cats make good mousers. They have to be taught by their mothers to hunt. It's a learned behavior.
Really? My kitty hunts mice and I got her when she was a wee thing (would not have been old enough to hunt mice). She's straight O.G when it comes to hunting mice. Bless her little hear for being ill now.
To clarify, hunting and playing is instinctual. They have to learn from the mother how to kill. Your kitty was probably taught by the momma kitty how to kill. They'll bring their kitties half alive mice to demonstrate on. It's cute, and gross at the same time.
Holy fuck, pixy. I am seriously traumatized by that.
Yeah. It made quite the impression on me growing up. Most of our cats were feral, but we did end up with quite a few obviously house kitties that people dumped "out on the farm" to "live a better life." They usually didn't last very long. We weren't in the position to bring them into the house.
I personally couldn't/wouldn't do it. If your cats aren't accustomed to that life, I think it would be really hard for them to adapt to it. I agree that a lot of the sticking points are really minor things in the whole scheme of caring for a cat.
Wawa, have you ever considered getting one of the automatic litter boxes? That might help with the scooping issues...
FWIW, i had indoor/outdoor cats my whole life. if their lives were cut in half then we would have had some seriously old cats.
Same here. In fact, all of our cats have been indoor/outdoor. I've heard the 1/2 life expectancy before, but that would have meant my cat were slated to live to about 30 y.o., so in our individual situation that just hasn't shown to be true. IIRC, this is one of Pixy's sort of surprise issues. Like, I wouldn't have guessed it but she cares about the issue a whole lot and has a whole lot of information about it, but that information just doesn't line up with my personal experience having indoor outdoor cats.
Cats can live well into their 20s if they are cared for well and have there issues treated well. So 30ish isn't that far off.
I could go off into a whole tanget about how our definition of life expectancy in pets is pushed waaay down due to our crappy diet and veterinary system (paying OP) and crappy breeding issues.
Dogs can also live well into their 20s and rabbits can live well into their teens if not 20s.
I haven't read a single reply, but if this is related to the baby, know that kids who are raised with cats tend to have less allergies than kids in families without them. Also, I've loved having cats with Sam because he gets to learn about kindness to other critters.
And now I will read the rest of the replies and see if we are still talking about cats or about pit bulls, red meat consumption, breastfeeding or vaccines. Or Reagan.