Royal watchers: Princess Eugenie engaged

[CheeringCharm]

Princess Eugenie got engaged to her boyfriend and they are planning to marry this fall in the same chapel as Harry and Meghan. Yay for another royal wedding! 

I wonder if the Queen will give Eugenie's husband an earldom. I remember there being some rumors that Prince Andrew was hoping for that for his daughters but then said he wasn't so who knows.

Also I really like that green coat/cape she is wearing. Cute.


www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5297137/Princess-Eugenie-engaged-Jack-Brooksbank.html

[bex]

My understanding was that Andrew wanted some sort of guarantee, so that Eugenie and Beatrice would not be "commoners" if they did not marry someone with a title. Which sounds so lame and archaic but I guess means something in the BRF.

My guess is that the queen will give him one, I get the impression that B&E are her favorites for some reason.

[hopecounts]

What stuck out to me was Buckingham Palace announced it as the Duke and Duchess of York which is interesting since they aren’t married (at least as far as the public knows)

[CheeringCharm]

Jan 22, 2018 8:06:59 GMT -5 bex said:

My understanding was that Andrew wanted some sort of guarantee, so that Eugenie and Beatrice would not be "commoners" if they did not marry someone with a title. Which sounds so lame and archaic but I guess means something in the BRF.

My guess is that the queen will give him one, I get the impression that B&E are her favorites for some reason.

It does seem this way. It appears that Beatrice and Eugenie go out of their way and make time to see her. They're often photographed walking to church with their grandparents. They seem like they have a close relationship. 

And based on watching The Crown (lol), I wonder if maybe the Queen is closer to Andrew and Edward vs. Charles because she had them at a time of her life when she has more time to spend with them. She seems like she has a closer relationship with her daughter too.

[Miss Phryne Fisher]

Jan 22, 2018 8:20:59 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

What stuck out to me was Buckingham Palace announced it as the Duke and Duchess of York which is interesting since they aren’t married (at least as far as the public knows)

Fergie keeps it until she marries again, but she isn't HRH anymore. 

[StrawberryBlondie]

They look very happy.

[msmerymac]

Jan 22, 2018 8:06:59 GMT -5 bex said:

My understanding was that Andrew wanted some sort of guarantee, so that Eugenie and Beatrice would not be "commoners" if they did not marry someone with a title. Which sounds so lame and archaic but I guess means something in the BRF.

My guess is that the queen will give him one, I get the impression that B&E are her favorites for some reason.

They'll always keep their titles, like Anne did, and Princess Alexandra, whose full title is HRH Princess Alexandra, the Hon. Lady Ogilvy. She'd just be a Lady if she wasn't a princess. It's just their kids who wouldn't have titles. 

It does beg the question about the Duke of York title, though. IIRC, there was some member of the nobility who was fighting in court to have his title passed to his daughter, who was his only child, as it had been in their family for about 800 years. Duke of York has often been said to be "unlucky" because its a title that constantly reverts to the crown - previous Dukes of York have either been childless, had only daughters, or become the Prince of Wales/King due to tragic circumstances, including Henry VIII, George V, and George VI. Anyway. I would think Andrew would be pretty gung-ho to have it pass to Beatrice, but maybe he'll wait until Charles is king to get that straightened out.

[CheeringCharm]

Jan 22, 2018 8:44:55 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Jan 22, 2018 8:06:59 GMT -5 bex said:

My understanding was that Andrew wanted some sort of guarantee, so that Eugenie and Beatrice would not be "commoners" if they did not marry someone with a title. Which sounds so lame and archaic but I guess means something in the BRF.

My guess is that the queen will give him one, I get the impression that B&E are her favorites for some reason.

They'll always keep their titles, like Anne did, and Princess Alexandra, whose full title is HRH Princess Alexandra, the Hon. Lady Ogilvy. She'd just be a Lady if she wasn't a princess. It's just their kids who wouldn't have titles. 

It does beg the question about the Duke of York title, though. IIRC, there was some member of the nobility who was fighting in court to have his title passed to his daughter, who was his only child, as it had been in their family for about 800 years. Duke of York has often been said to be "unlucky" because its a title that constantly reverts to the crown - previous Dukes of York have either been childless, had only daughters, or become the Prince of Wales/King due to tragic circumstances, including Henry VIII, George V, and George VI. Anyway. I would think Andrew would be pretty gung-ho to have it pass to Beatrice, but maybe he'll wait until Charles is king to get that straightened out.

This is interesting. I wonder what will happen with that. I'm sort of torn. On the one hand, I find the idea of nobility and family titles to be passed down through generations to be terribly archaic and against any values of social equality and mobility and individual merit that the country may say they have. The queen can create new titles for extraordinary people but that very rarely happens and even then they're usually lesser titles (baronetcy or baron vs. duke).

But on the other, if you are going to have titles in the year 2018, it makes sense for girls to be able to inherit since they can now inherit the throne.

I'm an American though so obviously my opinion doesn't count 

[mcsangel2]

I disagree with the idea of the York title staying in Andrew's family. I'm all for equality for the ladies, but Duke of York belongs to the monarch's second son. Change it to the monarch's second child (regardless of sex, since the law has changed anyway in regards to males being in line before females), but it belongs close to the crown. I envision, many years from now, William creating Charlotte Duchess of York.

[katiecj6]

Jan 22, 2018 9:06:46 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

I disagree with the idea of the York title staying in Andrew's family. I'm all for equality for the ladies, but Duke of York belongs to the monarch's second son. Change it to the monarch's second child (regardless of sex, since the law has changed anyway in regards to males being in line before females), but it belongs close to the crown. I envision, many years from now, William creating Charlotte Duchess of York.

Princess Charlotte will be the Princess Royal eventually. It currently belongs to Princess Anne.

[mbcdefg]

I like Princess Eugenie's ring and the engagement photo dress. She's very pretty. So closely resembles the Queen Mother. 

I don't think Jack will receive a Dukedom. There's really no need for it, plus I would bet that he and Eugenie want a simpler life. They're trying to slim down the high-ranking, working members of the family. If Eugenie and Beatrice aren't high-ranking working royals by this point, it's not going to happen.

Ditto those who think the Duke of York title will once again revert to the Crown once Prince Andrew dies. There's precedent for the monarch passing the title along to an eldest daughter when there was no surviving son to take it (the Fife dukedom), but I don't think that'll happen here. If Prince William's third baby is a boy maybe he'll be named Duke of York when he marries. Ditto katiecj6 about Charlotte eventually being named Princess Royal at some point after Princess Anne has passed away.

Ditto hopecounts that it's interesting that the announcement came from "The Duke and Duchess of York," rather than "HRH The Duke of York and Sarah, Duchess of York." The rumor is that the Queen is fond of Fergie whereas Prince Philip can't stand her, so it'll be interesting to see if they eventually remarry once Philip is gone (and perhaps the Queen too). Fergie's twee little tweets on the engagement are cracking me up: twitter.com/SarahTheDuchess

Excited to see which tiara she may wear ... likely her mom's wedding tiara, I would imagine. I'd love to see the Queen loan her something else from the vault, like earrings or a bracelet. 

[carmenere]

Jan 22, 2018 9:42:08 GMT -5 katiecj6 said:

Jan 22, 2018 9:06:46 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

I disagree with the idea of the York title staying in Andrew's family. I'm all for equality for the ladies, but Duke of York belongs to the monarch's second son. Change it to the monarch's second child (regardless of sex, since the law has changed anyway in regards to males being in line before females), but it belongs close to the crown. I envision, many years from now, William creating Charlotte Duchess of York.

Princess Charlotte will be the Princess Royal eventually. It currently belongs to Princess Anne.

Nvm she's Princess of Cambridge. Derp.

[CheeringCharm]

You can see her engagement ring here:

Looks like a pink sapphire as the center stone? Pretty. People are also pointing out that it's similar to the one her father gave to her mother.

[carmenere]

In unrelated royal news, while googling this I saw a bunch of articles from last fall about Kate wanting a home birth. Have we talked about this? Anyone know if it's legit or just speculation?

[mbcdefg]

Jan 22, 2018 10:14:12 GMT -5 carmenere said:

Jan 22, 2018 9:42:08 GMT -5 katiecj6 said:

Princess Charlotte will be the Princess Royal eventually. It currently belongs to Princess Anne.

Nvm she's Princess of Cambridge. Derp.

She's only "Princess Charlotte of Cambridge" right now because she takes her title from her father's title. She likely won't carry that title throughout her life, unless William dies before he's named Prince of Wales and/or becomes king. 

Once William is named Prince of Wales she'll be known as "Princess Charlotte of Wales." And once he's king she'll be known as "The Princess Charlotte" because once you're the child of the monarch you no longer have a territorial designation (Cambridge, Wales, York, whatever).

After that, her title will depend on if she chooses to marry, and whom (the "The" title I've included here assumes that William will be the king by the time she marries):

- If she marries a commoner, Mr. John Smith: "Her Royal Highness The Princess Charlotte, Mrs. John Smith" (again, "The" takes hold once she's the child of the monarch)
- If she marries Sir John Smith: "Her Royal Highness The Princess Charlotte, the Honorable Lady Smith"
- If she marries The Duke of Someplace, or if her commoner husband is newly created Duke of Someplace for their wedding: "Her Royal Highness The Princess Charlotte, Duchess of Someplace"
- If she remains unmarried: "Her Royal Highness The Princess Charlotte"
- If she marries a woman, then they'll have to figure out how to handle her titles since there's not yet a precedent for royal same-sex marriages.

She can also choose how she wants to be titled/styled once she reaches adulthood, so she might not want to be known as Mrs. John Smith or whatever. 

"Princess Royal" is an honor customarily, but not automatically, awarded to the monarch's eldest daughter. But there can't be two Princesses Royal at once so as long as Princess Anne is alive Charlotte won't receive this title. If she receives it then she'll likely be known as "Her Royal Highness The Princess Charlotte, Princess Royal." 

[winecat]

Jan 22, 2018 8:26:21 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

Jan 22, 2018 8:06:59 GMT -5 bex said:

My understanding was that Andrew wanted some sort of guarantee, so that Eugenie and Beatrice would not be "commoners" if they did not marry someone with a title. Which sounds so lame and archaic but I guess means something in the BRF.

My guess is that the queen will give him one, I get the impression that B&E are her favorites for some reason.

It does seem this way. It appears that Beatrice and Eugenie go out of their way and make time to see her. They're often photographed walking to church with their grandparents. They seem like they have a close relationship. 

And based on watching The Crown (lol), I wonder if maybe the Queen is closer to Andrew and Edward vs. Charles because she had them at a time of her life when she has more time to spend with them. She seems like she has a closer relationship with her daughter too.

I'm watching "The House of Windsor" on Netflix and the episode I just saw said that the Queen left Charles and Anne with the Queen Mother while she went to live on Malta with Prince Phillip.  And on the return from that trip, she stopped at the horse races before going to see her children.  Who knows how accurate this is or if it's continuing the narrative that she was an absent mother to Charles.  

CBS just ran a story that Harry and Megan are hiring for a comms director and have advertised it on LinkedIn.  lol  

[mbcdefg]

Jan 22, 2018 10:20:16 GMT -5 carmenere said:

In unrelated royal news, while googling this I saw a bunch of articles from last fall about Kate wanting a home birth. Have we talked about this? Anyone know if it's legit or just speculation?

I saw this too. I would bet that it's just a silly bit of made-up gossip, but if she wants to go this route (the "report" said that she didn't wish to disturb people at a hospital, right?) I'm sure they could easily and safely make it happen.

Royal births in a hospital, rather than in a palace, are fairly recent. The Queen's four children were all born in a royal residence. 

[sugarglider]

Jan 22, 2018 10:33:37 GMT -5 winecat said:

Jan 22, 2018 8:26:21 GMT -5 CheeringCharm said:

It does seem this way. It appears that Beatrice and Eugenie go out of their way and make time to see her. They're often photographed walking to church with their grandparents. They seem like they have a close relationship. 

And based on watching The Crown (lol), I wonder if maybe the Queen is closer to Andrew and Edward vs. Charles because she had them at a time of her life when she has more time to spend with them. She seems like she has a closer relationship with her daughter too.

I'm watching "The House of Windsor" on Netflix and the episode I just saw said that the Queen left Charles and Anne with the Queen Mother while she went to live on Malta with Prince Phillip.  And on the return from that trip, she stopped at the horse races before going to see her children.  Who knows how accurate this is or if it's continuing the narrative that she was an absent mother to Charles.  

CBS just ran a story that Harry and Megan are hiring for a comms director and have advertised it on LinkedIn.  lol  

My guess is they already have someone in mind from the US or Canada but have to post the listing for British immigration reasons.

[bex]

Kate supposedly wanted a home birth before but was told no. She didn’t get an epidural with either birth (again, supposedly). I forget the reasoning behind having to have a hospital birth.

[bex]

Jan 22, 2018 10:42:29 GMT -5 sugarglider said:

Jan 22, 2018 10:33:37 GMT -5 winecat said:

I'm watching "The House of Windsor" on Netflix and the episode I just saw said that the Queen left Charles and Anne with the Queen Mother while she went to live on Malta with Prince Phillip.  And on the return from that trip, she stopped at the horse races before going to see her children.  Who knows how accurate this is or if it's continuing the narrative that she was an absent mother to Charles.  

CBS just ran a story that Harry and Megan are hiring for a comms director and have advertised it on LinkedIn.  lol  

My guess is they already have someone in mind from the US or Canada but have to post the listing for British immigration reasons.

I’m hoping Meghan has someone in mind (not Jessica Mulroney!). Harry and will aren’t great at choosing communications staff.

Poor Jason. Lol.

[taratru]

They're cute. I love her shoes, her ring, and her dress. In short, this is adorable.

[thelurkylulu]

Wasn’t Kate out of the hospital within hours of giving birth to Charlotte? I highly doubt she has a home birth.

[carmenere]

Jan 22, 2018 10:55:48 GMT -5 thelurkylulu said:

Wasn’t Kate out of the hospital within hours of giving birth to Charlotte? I highly doubt she has a home birth.

I don't know about Charlotte's birth specifically, but the average length of the hospital stay for a normal delivery is shorter in the UK than in the US. The articles also suggested that she didn't like being mobbed by the press when they arrived at the hospital and went home, which I can totally understand. 

[bex]

Jan 22, 2018 10:55:48 GMT -5 thelurkylulu said:

Wasn’t Kate out of the hospital within hours of giving birth to Charlotte? I highly doubt she has a home birth.

Yes. She left that same day. With George she stayed overnight.

[raangoli]

Am I the only one who is wondering why she has so much bronzer on? I mean the difference between her face and arm is...whoa.

[downtoearth]

Jan 22, 2018 8:28:36 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

all that money and nobody can hem pants.

This made me go look at all his pictures in the link to see what you were talking about.

[W.T.Faulkner]

Jan 22, 2018 11:29:11 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

HI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And also, yes, this.

[msmerymac]

Jan 22, 2018 10:10:47 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

I like Princess Eugenie's ring and the engagement photo dress. She's very pretty. So closely resembles the Queen Mother. 

Hmm, I think she's looking more like Fergie as she ages. I'll have to go back and look at photos of the Queen Mum. 

[greenlight]

Pretty ring. It's interesting. Her ring looks just like her mother's and the groom bears a striking resemblance to her father when he was young.

[mryrcn]

Jan 22, 2018 8:28:36 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

all that money and nobody can hem pants.

Thanks for pointing that out.  I stared and stared  At least they have nice teeth.

She does look like her grandmother more than the others.