Sen. Tim Kaine intros legislation to help military spouses

[miniroller]

To take a step back from 45/ White House drama, this is a topic I’m pretty embarrassed to admit I’d never considered a problem before just hearing Tim Kaine give an interview on NPR.
www.stripes.com/sen-tim-kaine-introduces-legislation-to-help-military-spouses-1.510374
...The rate of unemployment for military spouses – those actively seeking work – ranges from three to six times higher than their civilian counterparts...
The Military Spouse Employment Act of 2018 seeks to give military spouses a leg up in federal hiring and to push the Defense Department to offer more opportunities for spouses: enable them to run private businesses on base, expand educational and training and give them more access to affordable child care...
—-
Seems like a no-brainer, but, I don’t know there is any such thing with this Congress. Nonetheless, I was pleased to see Kaine bringing attention to helping this obviously too-often-overlooked problem.

[morecoffeeplease]

It sucks. I was a 10 year teacher and when we moved I basically lost it all. I couldn’t find a teaching job at my husbands new duty station. Not to mention it cost over $300 and over 8 months of time to switch my license. That was just for the license. I had to pay over $100 for finger prints too even though I have a valid background check for my military ID

[CrazyLucky]

I'm glad he's introducing this. I feel like the sacrifices the spouse makes are overlooked.

[morecoffeeplease]

And because I couldn’t find a job, I couldn’t keep up with professional development to keep my license valid. Schools offer those while working but I would have had to pay over $600 for those because I wasn’t an employee.

So anyway it’s been defeating and right now I’m a sub because my license isn’t valid.

[morecoffeeplease]

Feb 8, 2018 9:01:20 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

This is good legislation. I know it’s probably unpopular to ask, but are a lot of military families hurt financially by this or is it more professionally? I know only officer types and their spouses stayed home with kids and were pretty well off, but I’m wondering if others in the military who are paid less are really hurt financially by this?

We went from two incomes to one Income for 5 years. We were okay but we had to budget to the dollar.

[downtoearth]

Feb 8, 2018 9:02:34 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Feb 8, 2018 9:01:20 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

This is good legislation. I know it’s probably unpopular to ask, but are a lot of military families hurt financially by this or is it more professionally? I know only officer types and their spouses stayed home with kids and were pretty well off, but I’m wondering if others in the military who are paid less are really hurt financially by this?

We went from two incomes to one Income for 5 years. We were okay but we had to budget to the dollar.

I just deleted because I read the actual article and yes, sounds like they are.

[carmenere]

When my SIL (a special ed teacher) got engaged to a marine, they had to decide who would give up their career because she couldn't just move her job from state to state. We need this type of support for our military families. We do not need a fucking military parade.

I think Dems need to be really aggressive in their messaging around this: Kaine wants to make real changes to help military families, Trump wants to spend taxpayer money to put on a show.

[audette]

Yup. This would be one of my soap-boxes.

There is only so much that legislation can do (I had 7 addresses over the course of the 12-ish years DH and I were married before he retired). There is a certain number of employers that just won't touch you when you are a mil spouse because they know you're only in the area temporarily. But at least federal jobs can be made a teeny bit easier to get. And some of those can be transferred to a new base when the servicemember gets PCS orders.

However, it's rediculous that licenses can't at least carry over, so those in fields where that is a barrier can at least have that teeny amount of an easier time of it. They're still giving up seniority, tenure, payment into a state-based retirement/pension program with ever move, but it may, at least, make it a bit easier to work at the next duty station.


And then, for the spouses that can't find work, even when they want to, they still end up the butt of jokes about being "dependents". (that's the term the military uses for the family of servicemembers)

And for spouses that do manage to find work, they're often such a rarity that they get shut out of a lot of the spouse-support things, because most of those happen during business hours.

[cattledogkisses]

I'm a military spouse who's currently unemployed because of a move. It's been one of the hardest parts of what's been otherwise an awesome assignment. I'm glad we got the opportunity to live here and experience this, but it's been hard watching my friends from grad school advance in their careers while I look for ways to fill my day.

What has always rubbed me the wrong way is people who expect military spouses to be happy and grateful to be offered whatever menial, minimum-wage jobs are available, regardless of their level of education or previous job experience. It's so dismissive of the career desires of a demographic that's largely female.

[cattledogkisses]

Feb 8, 2018 9:17:49 GMT -5 audette said:

Yup. This would be one of my soap-boxes.

There is only so much that legislation can do (I had 7 addresses over the course of the 12-ish years DH and I were married before he retired). There is a certain number of employers that just won't touch you when you are a mil spouse because they know you're only in the area temporarily. But at least federal jobs can be made a teeny bit easier to get. And some of those can be transferred to a new base when the servicemember gets PCS orders.

However, it's rediculous that licenses can't at least carry over, so those in fields where that is a barrier can at least have that teeny amount of an easier time of it. They're still giving up seniority, tenure, payment into a state-based retirement/pension program with ever move, but it may, at least, make it a bit easier to work at the next duty station.


And then, for the spouses that can't find work, even when they want to, they still end up the butt of jokes about being "dependents". (that's the term the military uses for the family of servicemembers)

And for spouses that do manage to find work, they're often such a rarity that they get shut out of a lot of the spouse-support things, because most of those happen during business hours.

Preach.  I saw someone throw out "dependapotamus" recently, and that word makes me so angry.

[hbtk]

Feb 8, 2018 9:17:49 GMT -5 audette said:

Yup. This would be one of my soap-boxes.

There is only so much that legislation can do (I had 7 addresses over the course of the 12-ish years DH and I were married before he retired). There is a certain number of employers that just won't touch you when you are a mil spouse because they know you're only in the area temporarily. But at least federal jobs can be made a teeny bit easier to get. And some of those can be transferred to a new base when the servicemember gets PCS orders.

However, it's rediculous that licenses can't at least carry over, so those in fields where that is a barrier can at least have that teeny amount of an easier time of it. They're still giving up seniority, tenure, payment into a state-based retirement/pension program with ever move, but it may, at least, make it a bit easier to work at the next duty station.


And then, for the spouses that can't find work, even when they want to, they still end up the butt of jokes about being "dependents". (that's the term the military uses for the family of servicemembers)

And for spouses that do manage to find work, they're often such a rarity that they get shut out of a lot of the spouse-support things, because most of those happen during business hours.

Definitely this. I can't attend stuff during the day, and I have no mil spouse friends because it's almost impossible to attend events, networking or otherwise. This is my H's first duty station, and we met and married here where I already had my career. I am the breadwinner in our house, he's enlisted. In a few weeks we have our first PCS halfway across the country, to Maryland. I am a government contractor and have been here for six years, but they are struggling to find a way to keep me on even though my division is based in DC because the contract requirement is for a job in our current location (even though my job could be done remotely). Out here I do great financially even though I am in the middle of my degree, but I worry that in Maryland the competition will be so stiff I won't be able to find another analyst job. And from what I have seen, the pay is lower/equal, I'll lose the extra vacation days I have earned by being with my company over 5 years, and I can kiss my seniority goodbye. It's the thing I am stressing about most during this move.

[atarianna]

I benefited from a program called “military spouse preference” when applying with a DOD contractor while my H was on active duty. It springboarded my professional growth significantly and I am so grateful the program existed in 2008.

Perhaps the program I was eligible for was base specific? But as far as I know, this does exist.

[hopecounts]

This is a huge issue and something that does need to be addressed.
Glad Kaine is taking it on.

[hbtk]

Feb 8, 2018 9:31:57 GMT -5 atarianna said:

I benefited from a program called “military spouse preference” when applying with a DOD contractor while my H was on active duty. It springboarded my professional growth significantly and I am so grateful the program existed in 2008.

Perhaps the program I was eligible for was base specific? But as far as I know, this does exist.

It exists, but not all jobs are eligible for it. When feds bid a job, they have to choose whether to give it a mil spouse preference. Some contract companies do it, but they are not obligated to as far as I know.

[audette]

Feb 8, 2018 9:31:57 GMT -5 atarianna said:

I benefited from a program called “military spouse preference” when applying with a DOD contractor while my H was on active duty. It springboarded my professional growth significantly and I am so grateful the program existed in 2008.

Perhaps the program I was eligible for was base specific? But as far as I know, this does exist.

It still exists. But _very_ few spouses are successful in using it. That's awesome that you were able to springboard on it, though!

[morecoffeeplease]

Feb 8, 2018 9:40:36 GMT -5 hbtk said:

Feb 8, 2018 9:31:57 GMT -5 atarianna said:

I benefited from a program called “military spouse preference” when applying with a DOD contractor while my H was on active duty. It springboarded my professional growth significantly and I am so grateful the program existed in 2008.

Perhaps the program I was eligible for was base specific? But as far as I know, this does exist.

It exists, but not all jobs are eligible for it. When feds bid a job, they have to choose whether to give it a mil spouse preference. Some contract companies do it, but they are not obligated to as far as I know.

Yes I looked into this and there weren’t very many options where we were.

[audette]

Feb 8, 2018 9:45:49 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Feb 8, 2018 9:40:36 GMT -5 hbtk said:

It exists, but not all jobs are eligible for it. When feds bid a job, they have to choose whether to give it a mil spouse preference. Some contract companies do it, but they are not obligated to as far as I know.

Yes I looked into this and there weren’t very many options where we were.

And foreign national spouses like me are not eligible for pretty much any fed job...

[audette]

Feb 8, 2018 9:23:09 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Feb 8, 2018 9:17:49 GMT -5 audette said:

Yup. This would be one of my soap-boxes.

There is only so much that legislation can do (I had 7 addresses over the course of the 12-ish years DH and I were married before he retired). There is a certain number of employers that just won't touch you when you are a mil spouse because they know you're only in the area temporarily. But at least federal jobs can be made a teeny bit easier to get. And some of those can be transferred to a new base when the servicemember gets PCS orders.

However, it's rediculous that licenses can't at least carry over, so those in fields where that is a barrier can at least have that teeny amount of an easier time of it. They're still giving up seniority, tenure, payment into a state-based retirement/pension program with ever move, but it may, at least, make it a bit easier to work at the next duty station.


And then, for the spouses that can't find work, even when they want to, they still end up the butt of jokes about being "dependents". (that's the term the military uses for the family of servicemembers)

And for spouses that do manage to find work, they're often such a rarity that they get shut out of a lot of the spouse-support things, because most of those happen during business hours.

Preach.  I saw someone throw out "dependapotamus" recently, and that word makes me so angry.

I _hate_ those damn jokes.

[audette]

Feb 8, 2018 9:28:46 GMT -5 hbtk said:

Feb 8, 2018 9:17:49 GMT -5 audette said:

Yup. This would be one of my soap-boxes.

There is only so much that legislation can do (I had 7 addresses over the course of the 12-ish years DH and I were married before he retired). There is a certain number of employers that just won't touch you when you are a mil spouse because they know you're only in the area temporarily. But at least federal jobs can be made a teeny bit easier to get. And some of those can be transferred to a new base when the servicemember gets PCS orders.

However, it's rediculous that licenses can't at least carry over, so those in fields where that is a barrier can at least have that teeny amount of an easier time of it. They're still giving up seniority, tenure, payment into a state-based retirement/pension program with ever move, but it may, at least, make it a bit easier to work at the next duty station.


And then, for the spouses that can't find work, even when they want to, they still end up the butt of jokes about being "dependents". (that's the term the military uses for the family of servicemembers)

And for spouses that do manage to find work, they're often such a rarity that they get shut out of a lot of the spouse-support things, because most of those happen during business hours.

Definitely this. I can't attend stuff during the day, and I have no mil spouse friends because it's almost impossible to attend events, networking or otherwise. This is my H's first duty station, and we met and married here where I already had my career. I am the breadwinner in our house, he's enlisted. In a few weeks we have our first PCS halfway across the country, to Maryland. I am a government contractor and have been here for six years, but they are struggling to find a way to keep me on even though my division is based in DC because the contract requirement is for a job in our current location (even though my job could be done remotely). Out here I do great financially even though I am in the middle of my degree, but I worry that in Maryland the competition will be so stiff I won't be able to find another analyst job. And from what I have seen, the pay is lower/equal, I'll lose the extra vacation days I have earned by being with my company over 5 years, and I can kiss my seniority goodbye. It's the thing I am stressing about most during this move.

Good luck on the move, and the job-search/move, too.  It's _hard_, and it sucks to face a PCS knowing it's going to fuck over your career.


I have no clue where I'd be right now if I hadn't had to basically step back in my career due to DH's service.  Certainly at a _very_ different point than I am today.  I found a path that at least let me keep working, and in my field, but at greatly reduced hours, benefits, seniority, and _zero_ upward mobility. 

[turnipthebeet]

What would partisan or military objection to this be?

[morecoffeeplease]

Feb 8, 2018 10:10:08 GMT -5 turnipthebeet said:

What would partisan or military objection to this be?

I’ve seen people on Facebook say we knew what we were getting into and we shouldn’t have married a service member.

[hopecounts]

Feb 8, 2018 10:10:08 GMT -5 turnipthebeet said:

What would partisan or military objection to this be?

Bootstraps/you knew what you were doing/the image of the higher officer’s family doing fine (ignoring that enlisted and lower ranked officers don’t get the same level of pay, and that the wife just may want to work)/underlying women should stay at home idea/misogyny/history of military wives being expected to smile and not complain

[hbtk]

Feb 8, 2018 10:09:51 GMT -5 audette said:

Feb 8, 2018 9:28:46 GMT -5 hbtk said:

Definitely this. I can't attend stuff during the day, and I have no mil spouse friends because it's almost impossible to attend events, networking or otherwise. This is my H's first duty station, and we met and married here where I already had my career. I am the breadwinner in our house, he's enlisted. In a few weeks we have our first PCS halfway across the country, to Maryland. I am a government contractor and have been here for six years, but they are struggling to find a way to keep me on even though my division is based in DC because the contract requirement is for a job in our current location (even though my job could be done remotely). Out here I do great financially even though I am in the middle of my degree, but I worry that in Maryland the competition will be so stiff I won't be able to find another analyst job. And from what I have seen, the pay is lower/equal, I'll lose the extra vacation days I have earned by being with my company over 5 years, and I can kiss my seniority goodbye. It's the thing I am stressing about most during this move.

Good luck on the move, and the job-search/move, too.  It's _hard_, and it sucks to face a PCS knowing it's going to fuck over your career.


I have no clue where I'd be right now if I hadn't had to basically step back in my career due to DH's service.  Certainly at a _very_ different point than I am today.  I found a path that at least let me keep working, and in my field, but at greatly reduced hours, benefits, seniority, and _zero_ upward mobility. 

Thanks. Even before my H I was the type to drop everything and move across the country, so the challenges that have presented themselves during this PCS have come as a bit of a surprise to me - I thought I was well equipped for this! Having the PCS fall in the midst of this clusterfuck of furlough threats has been another anxiety inducer. We are fortunate that we will be okay financially if I don't find something right away (no kids, budget for one salary), but emotionally it's pretty taxing to think about. A lot of my self-worth is tied to my career. It's hard to give that up, and I really feel for you and anyone else who has had to.

[audette]

Feb 8, 2018 10:11:35 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Feb 8, 2018 10:10:08 GMT -5 turnipthebeet said:

What would partisan or military objection to this be?

I’ve seen people on Facebook say we knew what we were getting into and we shouldn’t have married a service member.

Also, many programs on base depend on volunteers, which, of course, draw from mostly a pool of military spouses.  There is an expectation of volunteering when your spouse is serving.  And they are _serious_ about some of these volunteer positions.  The base here recently opened up applications for a few volunteer positions, asking for _resumes_ as part of the application.


Seriously.  If you need to apply with a full blown resume, it shouldn't be staffed by a damn volunteer.


So, if more spouses are working, the volunteer pool would shrink, and the military might find itself actually having to _pay_ people to take on these roles that are considered must-haves, but are still expected to be run by volunteers...


(to this day, I still wonder if my working while we were in Korea led to DH getting a less than stellar evaluation...  I wasn't pulling my weight on the volunteering side of things, and that commander was so old-school, he squeaked)

[audette]

Feb 8, 2018 10:10:08 GMT -5 turnipthebeet said:

What would partisan or military objection to this be?

Also, there are still some assholes who think women should be homemakers.  So, why should mil spouses want to work?

*gag*

[morecoffeeplease]

Someone brought up helping teachers by having a general license for military spouses that could easily go state to state without the wait time and fees and republicans said education is up to states and it would take away decisions from states. So I’ve seen that.

[hbtk]

Feb 8, 2018 10:18:26 GMT -5 morecoffeeplease said:

Someone brought up helping teachers by having a general license for military spouses that could easily go state to state without the wait time and fees and republicans said education is up to states and it would take away decisions from states. So I’ve seen that.

UGH. This is super shitty, particularly because the school systems around a lot of bases (particularly the one we are at, which is in Oklahoma City, if you've seen our education saga on the news) NEED good teachers. They are desperate for them. You would have a built in pool of applicants that you basically guarantee are not going anywhere for three years when you hire them, and that pool would always continue. It's doing a huge disservice to military families not only in spouse hiring, but in educating military kids.

[foundmylazybum]

Feb 8, 2018 10:10:08 GMT -5 turnipthebeet said:

What would partisan or military objection to this be?

I think there is a strong belief in the military that the Soldier's career comes first. (At the cost of the family).
There is also a strong belief of "It's been this way and worked so why change!" (Even if facts say different, I heard that belief a lot working with the Army)

And because of deployments, schools and pcs moves this is true to a certain degree as has been discussed above and by the facts of underemployed spouses.

It's accepted in military culture and changing those beliefs.and adapting new ideas around the facts could cause pushback.

[morecoffeeplease]

This also ties in with MLM companies. So many of my fellow spouses have lost a ton of money to companies like lularoe, scenery, etc.

[dcn]

I’m so happy to see some attention to this. I’ve had 5 jobs in the last 11 years. I couldn’t even add up the amount of retirement and income I’ve lost as a result. This is the thing that my husband feels guilty about, that I gave up my career basically to follow him around so he could succeed in his.

It is exhausting to job search every 2 years in a city you know no one in. To start over and have to learn a new job all the time. To build relationships and then leave a year later.

I’m a cpa and haven’t needed to recertify as we’ve moved around thankfully. I have kept up my license though which I have to have 24 hours of continuing ed for each year. Sometimes my employer pays for it but usually not so I shell out the money because having that certification gives me a big leg up when I am job searching.

Also I gave up on GS jobs. It takes forever to hire and then there’s no guarantee you can transfer.

I can’t even count how many spouses I know who have professional degrees and don’t use them bc its just too hard.