NIMBY: OC residents want to help the homeless, just not here

[downtoearth]

Some OC residents: We want to help the homeless — just don't put them in our neighborhoods

One day after Orange County supervisors voted to spend more than $70 million to house the homeless, residents in three prosperous cities expressed alarm about a proposal to set up "camp" shelters in their communities.

Besides creating permanent housing, the officials' plans call for possible camps in Irvine, Laguna Niguel and Huntington Beach on county-owned land. The Irvine City Council voted unanimously late Tuesday to sue the county to stop the proposal.

"Finally, the county is taking action — doling out this kind of money. But they must understand that they can use this money to go buy land elsewhere, maybe the Inland Empire, to relocate the homeless," said Mark Smith, a Huntington Beach renter looking to buy a home near Pacific Coast Highway. "We just can't lower our housing values with this population nearby,"

More NIMBY quotes like this in the article

The housing issue took center stage Monday after homeless advocates criticized county officials for not having a plan to help the more than 700 people moved from the Santa Ana River trail encampment into motels last month. Because motel vouchers were only available for 30 days, critics questioned where the homeless would go when they expired.

www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-oc-homeless-housing-20180321-story.html

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It's also ironic that this article on OC's homeless issues and some quotes about LA doing nothing is in the same issue as this one on Garcetti says L.A. can end street homelessness in a decade where the mayor of LA has a plan to

Garcetti now seeks to cut the city's "unsheltered" population in half in the next five years and reduce it to "functional zero" by 2028 — the final year of funding from the Measure H and Proposition HHH ballot measures, spokeswoman Anna Bahr said this week.

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And while the first article is very NIMBY and the second is overly optimistic, I also just read this other article about how YIMBY is a increasing advocacy to say "Yes in My Backyard" to homeless solutions and more specifically affordable housing in CA (but has it's own problems with inclusion and the strongest YIMBY voices being primarily internet white males.

www.bitchmedia.org/article/yimbys-fighting-for-housing

There Goes the Neighborhood
Can YIMBYs Reverse the Impact of Gentrification?

“It’s important to acknowledge that the YIMBY movement is not the first group or movement to come up with these ideas. We’re building on the long tradition of organizing in the Bay Area: We have to pay respect to that and acknowledge that,” Fierce said. At the same time, the issue of affordable housing isn’t going away. “I came out here from Ohio, not because I wanted to, but because there were no jobs. I moved to a place with economic opportunity. A lot of people are doing that. I’m not unique. People want to have a good life.”

Time will tell if organizers can promote the good life without burdening underrepresented and historically marginalized communities. That work is already beginning in some cities, where YIMBY groups are explicitly working with long-established housing activists on developing inclusive housing solutions that will increase available inventory, push prices lower, and preserve the integrity of diverse neighborhoods. Their work includes activities like calling on suburbs to do their fair share and pushing tech companies to take responsibility for their role in the housing crisis.

[ESF]

This unfortunately is a problem all over California. There is money to house the homeless, but NIMBYism is preventing that housing from becoming a reality. The only difference is that usually in the Bay area, they disguise their NIMBYism in the form of environmentalism, or sometimes, faux concern for the dwindling population of lower income or minority residents of the neighborhood. In Orange County, they just wear it right on their sleeve. I gotta give props to them for at least being honest about their douchebaggery.

[msmerymac]

OC residents are like the NIMBYest of NIMBYs. This is like NIMBY satire, it's so bad.

[msmerymac]

Also, what a coincidence that LA is going to basically get rid of all their homeless people by the time the olympics come. I'll believe it when I see it. Which I will, because I plan to go to the olympics.

[suburbanzookeeper]

Mar 21, 2018 15:08:16 GMT -5 ESF said:

This unfortunately is a problem all over California. There is money to house the homeless, but NIMBYism is preventing that housing from becoming a reality. The only difference is that usually in the Bay area, they disguise their NIMBYism in the form of environmentalism, or sometimes, faux concern for the dwindling population of lower income or minority residents of the neighborhood. In Orange County, they just wear it right on their sleeve. I gotta give props to them for at least being honest about their douchebaggery.

This, all of this. OC folks do not want this in their backyard, IE folks don't want it in their backyard and home values and "think of the children!" are usually the big arguments. DH works for an OC city and they had a dramatic uptick in homeless once the riverbed was cleared. We've seen an increase here in our unincorporated area in IE. The city south of us has a huge homeless advocacy program that I've had a lot of interaction with but we're seeing a large number of addicts and folks who don't want help/a hand up, they want to be left alone and be allowed to do whatever they please. 

[downtoearth]

So my question is how can the mayor of LA think he is going to get to "functional zero" for homelessness?  This isn't just a lack of housing issue, it's more complex with mental health issues, joblessness, addiction issues, tough-love issues, immigration issues, etc. I still think he's pretty far off of reality thinking that there is a "functional zero" for homelessness. Maybe I'm just too accustomed to the idea that some people are just homeless at times and you help them with their issue, but it takes a lot to help one individual actually stay off the streets.


As for a problem everywhere... yes. It's also in small places like MT. We are not immune. Nobody wants to live the in 1 -mile radius between the homeless shelter and the 6th Ward b/c home prices don't go up a lot. At the same time, it's also where affordable housing is for families and so a lot of super money-focused landlords own property that they don't take care of either (circle of affordable housing - it's crappy b/c it's affordable and "near the tracks", never just affordable and well cared for). Same thing in our next town/city over that is much larger. The homeless shelter had money for a new shelter for about 5 years before they could get the city and neighborhoods to allow them to build because of "property values going down, but we want to help, just not here" - and that town is considered the most "liberal" in our state. So money is there, but not the actual land or reasonable location.

And putting homeless people "inland" in CA or far away from cities is ridiculous... they need public transportation and access to services in cities.

[stever]

Mar 21, 2018 16:34:33 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

So my question is how can the mayor of LA think he is going to get to "functional zero" for homelessness?  This isn't just a lack of housing issue, it's more complex with mental health issues, joblessness, addiction issues, tough-love issues, immigration issues, etc. I still think he's pretty far off of reality thinking that there is a "functional zero" for homelessness. Maybe I'm just too accustomed to the idea that some people are just homeless at times and you help them with their issue, but it takes a lot to help one individual actually stay off the streets.


As for a problem everywhere... yes. It's also in small places like MT. We are not immune. Nobody wants to live the in 1 -mile radius between the homeless shelter and the 6th Ward b/c home prices don't go up a lot. At the same time, it's also where affordable housing is for families and so a lot of super money-focused landlords own property that they don't take care of either (circle of affordable housing - it's crappy b/c it's affordable and "near the tracks", never just affordable and well cared for). Same thing in our next town/city over that is much larger. The homeless shelter had money for a new shelter for about 5 years before they could get the city and neighborhoods to allow them to build because of "property values going down, but we want to help, just not here" - and that town is considered the most "liberal" in our state. So money is there, but not the actual land or reasonable location.

And putting homeless people "inland" in CA or far away from cities is ridiculous... they need public transportation and access to services in cities.

It’s not “inland” in quotes. It’s the Inland Empire, a massive swathe of land and people to the east of LA and OC, used as the butt of jokes and dumping ground by the people on the coast.

[sushi]

The police can legally pick up the homeless in Oc (at least 1town I know of) and drop them off in la county.

[agnes]

All I can say is that it is frustrating to see how cities are individually handling this. And it’s frustrating to hear people talk about the homeless as if they weren’t actual people. I see the effort on the county side and see that there has been real effort in reconnecting people who are homeless with family and offering various services over the past couple years. We spent like half a million on hotel vouchers last month to relocate the homeless people from the riverbed. It’s just a bandaid.

[gretchenindisguise]

Mar 21, 2018 19:37:06 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Mar 21, 2018 19:32:07 GMT -5 sushi said:

The police can legally pick up the homeless in Oc (at least 1town I know of) and drop them off in la county.

Again, please see above, this practice occurs in counties across the coast.
It may be:
*A police pick up
*A one way bus ticket to Nevada, Arizona, or Skid Row- Which was Malibu's method of choice
*Or various towns in LA and OC dumping their homeless in Santa Ana 

It's not an OC problem; it's a CA problem. 

It's really not even a CA problem, it's an America problem. We had it in KC and I had a client or two provided a bus ticket to San Diego.

[sushi]

I'm well aware it's not an OC or even ca problem. Hell cities will even pay to fly people to Hawaii.

[agnes]

I also suggest listening to The Voice of OC podcast episodes about homlessness

voiceofoc.org/category/voice-of-oc/on-oc/

[mrspez07]

We’ve got a homeless housing project shaping up in the burbs of Denver. Again, mostly NIMBYs, lots of people are against this and any kind of non-single family housing anywhere in the City (lots of people complaining about some recent multi family projects to council and planning commission).

www.denverpost.com/2018/03/16/lakewood-homeless-housing-project-opposition/

In addition to the NIMBY concerns, this one also has some environmental issues that have been raised, but it’s hard to tell whether that’s just a cover for NIMBY motives.

[downtoearth]

Mar 21, 2018 23:47:22 GMT -5 mrspez07 said:

We’ve got a homeless housing project shaping up in the burbs of Denver. Again, mostly NIMBYs, lots of people are against this and any kind of non-single family housing anywhere in the City (lots of people complaining about some recent multi family projects to council and planning commission).

www.denverpost.com/2018/03/16/lakewood-homeless-housing-project-opposition/

In addition to the NIMBY concerns, this one also has some environmental issues that have been raised, but it’s hard to tell whether that’s just a cover for NIMBY motives.

It does turn a lot of green space into parking, but are people worried about the temporary structures not having sewer/water? I would worry about that, but it looks like they have a plan for that in the first phase. I also like that it's right on public transportation so it makes it easier to get to/from the store and services.

I hope it works and I had no idea about that law that allows homeless coalitions first right of refusal to unused federal building lands?!

[downtoearth]

Mar 21, 2018 23:00:05 GMT -5 sushi said:

I'm well aware it's not an OC or even ca problem. Hell cities will even pay to fly people to Hawaii.

What? Fly them to Hawaii? That sounds so expensive, plus you need a valid ID and such to get on a plane. I'm just surprised.

[agnes]

Mar 22, 2018 11:01:14 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Mar 21, 2018 23:47:22 GMT -5 mrspez07 said:

We’ve got a homeless housing project shaping up in the burbs of Denver. Again, mostly NIMBYs, lots of people are against this and any kind of non-single family housing anywhere in the City (lots of people complaining about some recent multi family projects to council and planning commission).

www.denverpost.com/2018/03/16/lakewood-homeless-housing-project-opposition/

In addition to the NIMBY concerns, this one also has some environmental issues that have been raised, but it’s hard to tell whether that’s just a cover for NIMBY motives.

It does turn a lot of green space into parking, but are people worried about the temporary structures not having sewer/water? I would worry about that, but it looks like they have a plan for that in the first phase. I also like that it's right on public transportation so it makes it easier to get to/from the store and services.

I hope it works and I had no idea about that law that allows homeless coalitions first right of refusal to unused federal building lands?!

the human waste Part is something to be concerned about. When they cleaned up the riverbed encampment, they removed over 5,000 lbs of hazardous waste.

www.ocregister.com/2018/03/08/thousands-of-pounds-of-human-waste-close-to-14000-hypodermic-needles-cleaned-out-from-santa-ana-river-homeless-encampments/

So as long as there is an actual plan in place, it shouldn’t be an issue

[isabel]

Mar 21, 2018 23:47:22 GMT -5 mrspez07 said:

We’ve got a homeless housing project shaping up in the burbs of Denver. Again, mostly NIMBYs, lots of people are against this and any kind of non-single family housing anywhere in the City (lots of people complaining about some recent multi family projects to council and planning commission).

www.denverpost.com/2018/03/16/lakewood-homeless-housing-project-opposition/

In addition to the NIMBY concerns, this one also has some environmental issues that have been raised, but it’s hard to tell whether that’s just a cover for NIMBY motives.

There’s a planned low-income development in my area south of Denver that our neighbors are just up in arms about. I honestly couldn’t even tell you the reason they give for not wanting it (though increased traffic on two lane roads is one of the more reasonable ones), because the vast majority basically think having low-income people in the area will decrease home prices. Which, given the real estate market in this state is just beyond absurd. It’s all just coded racism and classism.

[downtoearth]

Mar 22, 2018 11:22:45 GMT -5 agnes said:

Mar 22, 2018 11:01:14 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

It does turn a lot of green space into parking, but are people worried about the temporary structures not having sewer/water? I would worry about that, but it looks like they have a plan for that in the first phase. I also like that it's right on public transportation so it makes it easier to get to/from the store and services.

I hope it works and I had no idea about that law that allows homeless coalitions first right of refusal to unused federal building lands?!

the human waste Part is something to be concerned about. When they cleaned up the riverbed encampment, they removed over 5,000 of hazardous waste.

www.ocregister.com/2018/03/08/thousands-of-pounds-of-human-waste-close-to-14000-hypodermic-needles-cleaned-out-from-santa-ana-river-homeless-encampments/

So as long as there is an actual plan in place, it shouldn’t be an issue

I'm glad they were able to move those people out of the waste area, even if just temporarily while they figure this out. Damn, that is a lot.

[mrspez07]

Mar 22, 2018 11:01:14 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Mar 21, 2018 23:47:22 GMT -5 mrspez07 said:

We’ve got a homeless housing project shaping up in the burbs of Denver. Again, mostly NIMBYs, lots of people are against this and any kind of non-single family housing anywhere in the City (lots of people complaining about some recent multi family projects to council and planning commission).

www.denverpost.com/2018/03/16/lakewood-homeless-housing-project-opposition/

In addition to the NIMBY concerns, this one also has some environmental issues that have been raised, but it’s hard to tell whether that’s just a cover for NIMBY motives.

It does turn a lot of green space into parking, but are people worried about the temporary structures not having sewer/water? I would worry about that, but it looks like they have a plan for that in the first phase. I also like that it's right on public transportation so it makes it easier to get to/from the store and services.

I hope it works and I had no idea about that law that allows homeless coalitions first right of refusal to unused federal building lands?!

Apparently the site may actually be near or on a old landfill. It may or may not be leaching stuff into the ground in the area. There has been some cleanup operations on federal Center land in recent years, not sure if this area is included in it. I believe there was a potential private development sale via City a year or two ago that fell through for the same area in part because of the environmental report (and pressure from residents about the City buying land for private development profit). The details are fuzzy in my brain.

ETA: here’s an older article about the city/fed deal
www.denverpost.com/2015/10/12/lakewood-to-vote-on-land-for-lab-swap-by-end-of-month/

[aliciabella]

Unfortunately this is very common. Not only with homeless shelters but also drug and alcohol and mental health facilities.

I was part of a committee that was working on opening LTSRs ( long term mh facilities) within the community and the outrage and pushback was fucking ridiculous. It is always the same excuse " I think it is a great program but not in my neighborhood." It was a mess. We looked to build on government property that already housed a jail, detention center, male and female community jail centers. The community was outraged which I still roll my eyes about. Seriously outraged, lol. It was ultimately built but still find it funny that the jails were okay but mental health facility? nah..

[amberlyrose]

Mar 22, 2018 11:47:26 GMT -5 isabel said:

Mar 21, 2018 23:47:22 GMT -5 mrspez07 said:

We’ve got a homeless housing project shaping up in the burbs of Denver. Again, mostly NIMBYs, lots of people are against this and any kind of non-single family housing anywhere in the City (lots of people complaining about some recent multi family projects to council and planning commission).

www.denverpost.com/2018/03/16/lakewood-homeless-housing-project-opposition/

In addition to the NIMBY concerns, this one also has some environmental issues that have been raised, but it’s hard to tell whether that’s just a cover for NIMBY motives.

There’s a planned low-income development in my area south of Denver that our neighbors are just up in arms about. I honestly couldn’t even tell you the reason they give for not wanting it (though increased traffic on two lane roads is one of the more reasonable ones), because the vast majority basically think having low-income people in the area will decrease home prices. Which, given the real estate market in this state is just beyond absurd. It’s all just coded racism and classism.

I live across the street from low-income housing and my block's home values are up anywhere between 100-200k in the last year. In the last 2 years, with no improvements, we've gained around 150k. It's definitely just coded racism and classism. 

[agnes]

The newest episode of Voice of OC is really interesting talking about the recent happenings and the push back of individual cities and lack of planning from the county.

itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-oc/id1338817519?mt=2&i=1000407507557

[agnes]

Anti-homeless and sanctuary city protest going on right now
www.ocregister.com/2018/03/27/hundreds-protest-homeless-sanctuary-city-law-outside-orange-county-board-of-supervisors-meeting/