Census test 2018

[LoveTrains]

So my county is participating in a census test. It's a 2018 census as a test for the 2020 census.

It was...odd. I got a letter in the mail and then went to a website. After I checked white it asked me to freetype my origins ( I wrote in Dutch, English).

Anyone else doing this? Is that a new thing? I don't remember that from the previous census.

[seeyalater52]

The three locations they chose for the test seem SUPER weird to me. I’m in your county and apparently we’re the only ones who are going to do the “remaining operations” ... whatever that means.

I was slow filling out the online forms so they sent a bazillion mail notices.

[isabel]

Apr 2, 2018 21:42:54 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

The three locations they chose for the test seem SUPER weird to me. I’m in your county and apparently we’re the only ones who are going to do the “remaining operations” ... whatever that means.

I was slow filling out the online forms so they sent a bazillion mail notices.

Can you elaborate on this?

[seeyalater52]

Apr 2, 2018 21:48:57 GMT -5 isabel said:

Apr 2, 2018 21:42:54 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

The three locations they chose for the test seem SUPER weird to me. I’m in your county and apparently we’re the only ones who are going to do the “remaining operations” ... whatever that means.

I was slow filling out the online forms so they sent a bazillion mail notices.

Can you elaborate on this?

They chose Providence County, Rhode Island, Bluefield-Beckley-Oak Hill, West Virginia, and Pierce County, Washington.

I don’t know anything about the methodology or why these sites were chosen but as a layperson they seem very random to me!

[seeyalater52]

And some local articles for context: upriseri.com/news/civil-rights/census-2020/2018-04-02-census/

ripr.org/post/us-census-test-run-underway-ri-heres-why-it-matters#stream/0

Everyone is talking about the difference between the last test census 10 years ago which had 5 full census test locations (compared to just one this year with two other partial tests) and a much higher budget.

It’s also so unfortunate that the news about the citizenship question broke right as the census notices were arriving. I’m not sure about the other two locations but around here there are a ton of immigrant communities and it wasn’t clear that the citizenship question wasn’t on the test census questionnaire so it’s leading to a lot of fear and confusion and we are probably going to end up massively undercounted. If we lose a Congressional seat over this I am going to be super annoyed.

[UMaineTeach]

I think we needed the origin information for FILs death certificate. It was like, uh, European by way of Canada? No idea.

[isabel]

If this citizenship question ends up on the census, can I just not answer it? Or will my census form be void for skipping that?

[seeyalater52]

Apr 2, 2018 22:20:59 GMT -5 isabel said:

If this citizenship question ends up on the census, can I just not answer it? Or will my census form be void for skipping that?

I am not clear on what the implications of this would be. If they do it online like the test version I just did the form forces you to answer the questions or it can’t be completed. If you don’t do it I guess theoretically they send someone to your door to count you, and I’m not sure what they’d do if you refused to answer. This is just my opinion, but so far the best answer I have for this is that people who are citizens and have the privilege to answer the citizenship question without penalty should complete their census and answer all the questions. Undercounting is going to hit states hard with funding and Congressional redistricting, among other things, and your answering helps ensure that your state and area get the most federal help possible - which in turn helps to support immigrant communities where there will be people who are too scared to respond.

[BicycleBride]

I have a census question that is not directly related. In 2010 I filled out our census form and mailed it back right away (some people enjoy drugery tasks like cleaning, I enjoy filling out demographic information sheets). At some point later, a census worker knocked on our door and asked me some of the same questions. What was the point of the door to door person since I did fill out the form? Spot checking for accuracy?

[isabel]

Apr 2, 2018 22:31:57 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Apr 2, 2018 22:20:59 GMT -5 isabel said:

If this citizenship question ends up on the census, can I just not answer it? Or will my census form be void for skipping that?

I am not clear on what the implications of this would be. If they do it online like the test version I just did the form forces you to answer the questions or it can’t be completed. If you don’t do it I guess theoretically they send someone to your door to count you, and I’m not sure what they’d do if you refused to answer. This is just my opinion, but so far the best answer I have for this is that people who are citizens and have the privilege to answer the citizenship question without penalty should complete their census and answer all the questions. Undercounting is going to hit states hard with funding and Congressional redistricting, among other things, and your answering helps ensure that your state and area get the most federal help possible - which in turn helps to support immigrant communities where there will be people who are too scared to respond.

As always, the voice of reason. Thanks for answering.

[heat40]

I don’t trust this administration to not use citizenship info for nefarious reasons. Even if you are a citizen, they are planning on asking you where your origins are from right? So *insert non-white country” and now they can scrutinize your citizenship as we all know they’re trying to do now. Fuck that.

[allabtthat]

This Is dangerous, imo. There are plenty of adopted citizens who do not know their bio parents background. How can they answer their country of origin or where they descended from if they do not know or have never been told?

[isabel]

Apr 3, 2018 2:25:44 GMT -5 allabtthat said:

This Is dangerous, imo. There are plenty of adopted citizens who do not know their bio parents background. How can they answer their country of origin or where they descended from if they do not know or have never been told?

I mean, I don’t know this information. Our heritage has never really been a thing in my family. I assume I am European, but don’t have anything factual to back that up.

[VillainV]

Is the real census also going to require people to go online, or is that just to test the questions out? What about all of the people who don’t have regular internet access?

[seeyalater52]

I agree it is a weird question, not only because some people don’t know their origins, but also because a lot of what they will get reported is just familial myth rather than actual iinformation. I doubt most people know this with any accuracy.

I can’t access my census form again to know for sure but I am 99% sure the addendum to the radial identity question (the box where you fill in your background) is voluntary.

[seeyalater52]

Apr 3, 2018 6:42:57 GMT -5 VillainV said:

Is the real census also going to require people to go online, or is that just to test the questions out? What about all of the people who don’t have regular internet access?

That is the plan right now. If you don’t fill it out online they will come to your house but according to the notices they send out they’re trying to save money and the environment by reducing in-person contacts.

It’s obviously a bullshit cost cutting mechanism that will lead to undercounting. I’m also not convinced that them mailing 3 paper notices in 3 weeks with directions about how to fill the census out online is any more environmentally friendly, especially if they have to ultimately send someone out for those who don’t respond.

[mssaint]

I also get all kinds of annoyed at the ancestry question because while I know the exact place in Germany where my ancestors came from, it was in the early 1700s, before the Revolution. I have no affinity for Germany and don’t consider myself German-American. I’ll leave that question blank.

[audette]

Apr 2, 2018 22:31:57 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Apr 2, 2018 22:20:59 GMT -5 isabel said:

If this citizenship question ends up on the census, can I just not answer it? Or will my census form be void for skipping that?

I am not clear on what the implications of this would be. If they do it online like the test version I just did the form forces you to answer the questions or it can’t be completed. If you don’t do it I guess theoretically they send someone to your door to count you, and I’m not sure what they’d do if you refused to answer. This is just my opinion, but so far the best answer I have for this is that people who are citizens and have the privilege to answer the citizenship question without penalty should complete their census and answer all the questions. Undercounting is going to hit states hard with funding and Congressional redistricting, among other things, and your answering helps ensure that your state and area get the most federal help possible - which in turn helps to support immigrant communities where there will be people who are too scared to respond.

Green card holders should feel relatively secure in answering the citizenship info. They already have all of our info, including national origin, biometrics, address (we are required to notify USCIS of our new address for every move). There will not be much in the census to answer that can't already be accessed if the administration wants to.

[karinothing]

Hasn't the heritage question been on there for a while? Last Census DH had to answer that he was Hispanic and then list his country of origin? Or is it just for Hispanics? FOr what it is worth, DH's family's county of origin is the US (his family has been in TX since before the US was the US).

[seeyalater52]

Apr 3, 2018 7:09:46 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Hasn't the heritage question been on there for a while? Last Census DH had to answer that he was Hispanic and then list his country of origin? Or is it just for Hispanics? FOr what it is worth, DH's family's county of origin is the US (his family has been in TX since before the US was the US).

I think all the questions on the test census were in the works well before the Trump administration. There are a couple of changes to the questions but nothing that I’m aware of that was added or taken away at the behest of this administration.

[gt7301b]

Apr 3, 2018 7:09:46 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Hasn't the heritage question been on there for a while? Last Census DH had to answer that he was Hispanic and then list his country of origin? Or is it just for Hispanics? FOr what it is worth, DH's family's county of origin is the US (his family has been in TX since before the US was the US).

According to this article it is a new question... maybe you were part of the community survey before?

"A citizenship question was asked in each decennial census of the total population from 1890 to 1950. (The 1820, 1830 and 1870 census questionnaires also included some form of a question about citizenship.) Until 1920, it was only asked of adult men; women and children automatically had the same citizenship status as their husbands or fathers. The question was not asked in the 1960 census. Since then, the citizenship question has been asked of only a sample of households, either on the census long form or the American Community Survey, which replaced it in 2010."


www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/30/what-to-know-about-the-citizenship-question-the-census-bureau-is-planning-to-ask-in-2020/

[nomad100]

Apr 2, 2018 22:57:50 GMT -5 BicycleBride said:

I have a census question that is not directly related. In 2010 I filled out our census form and mailed it back right away (some people enjoy drugery tasks like cleaning, I enjoy filling out demographic information sheets). At some point later, a census worker knocked on our door and asked me some of the same questions. What was the point of the door to door person since I did fill out the form? Spot checking for accuracy?

It may have been because there was some question about what you answered or it may have been because they needed to ensure everyone at the residence was covered. Or it could be that the form was damaged on the way to the census office and answers were unclear.  There was some stuff that was done that made me wonder why we were expending energy on that but wasn't my call by any means.*

*Former Census worker who went door to door verifying addresses and then validating forms for the last census  

[msmerymac]

Apr 3, 2018 6:53:14 GMT -5 mssaint said:

I also get all kinds of annoyed at the ancestry question because while I know the exact place in Germany where my ancestors came from, it was in the early 1700s, before the Revolution. I have no affinity for Germany and don’t consider myself German-American. I’ll leave that question blank.

I have plenty of family who showed up before the revolution (Dutch and German), and while I think it's cool and their place of origin is interesting, and would readily tell people where my ancestors came from (Scotland, Wales and Ireland in addition to the above), I agree Americans are WEIRD about being obsessed with their ethnic origins, man. People in other countries are like, "Okay, you're American. You're not REALLY Irish."

Though, to be even more weird about ethnic origin and totally go against what I just said - LoveTrains are you a knickerbocker? Just cause I know you're DAR, so I want to see if we're related via New Amsterdam. (Still trying to figure out if I'm related to the Schuylers somehow... I'm currently a "no" on that, although one of my ancestors served under Philip Schuyler's brother in the Revolution - Battle of Saratoga, I think.)

[LoveTrains]

Apr 3, 2018 8:51:19 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Apr 3, 2018 6:53:14 GMT -5 mssaint said:

I also get all kinds of annoyed at the ancestry question because while I know the exact place in Germany where my ancestors came from, it was in the early 1700s, before the Revolution. I have no affinity for Germany and don’t consider myself German-American. I’ll leave that question blank.

I have plenty of family who showed up before the revolution (Dutch and German), and while I think it's cool and their place of origin is interesting, and would readily tell people where my ancestors came from (Scotland, Wales and Ireland in addition to the above), I agree Americans are WEIRD about being obsessed with their ethnic origins, man. People in other countries are like, "Okay, you're American. You're not REALLY Irish."

Though, to be even more weird about ethnic origin and totally go against what I just said - LoveTrains are you a knickerbocker? Just cause I know you're DAR, so I want to see if we're related via New Amsterdam. (Still trying to figure out if I'm related to the Schuylers somehow... I'm currently a "no" on that, although one of my ancestors served under Philip Schuyler's brother in the Revolution - Battle of Saratoga, I think.)

On my fathers side I'm descended from the Cortelyous and Van Wycks of New Amsterdam.

The other thing about the online form was that it required me to put in an email and phone number. Very annoying. I don't trust the government with that. I gave my yahoo email and my landline.

Does this mean we don't get the actual census in 2020? Only this test?!

[seeyalater52]

Hahaha no we still have to do the 2020 census. And that is the one that actually counts for funding/redistricting/etc.

[Michelle]

I wonder how many people will use their results from Ancestry DNA to complete the survey?

I ask, because I don't trust the accuracy of the results. The more people that participate, the more accurate it probably is, but it seems that they are basically creating a big genome map and cross-linking it with their geneology data on Ancestry.com and much of that is self-reported and perhaps not completely accurate, so the variations in Ancestry DNA result accuracy are large as well.

Anyway, the Census answers could get really interesting this next round.

[msmerymac]

Apr 3, 2018 17:52:00 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Apr 3, 2018 8:51:19 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

I have plenty of family who showed up before the revolution (Dutch and German), and while I think it's cool and their place of origin is interesting, and would readily tell people where my ancestors came from (Scotland, Wales and Ireland in addition to the above), I agree Americans are WEIRD about being obsessed with their ethnic origins, man. People in other countries are like, "Okay, you're American. You're not REALLY Irish."

Though, to be even more weird about ethnic origin and totally go against what I just said - LoveTrains are you a knickerbocker? Just cause I know you're DAR, so I want to see if we're related via New Amsterdam. (Still trying to figure out if I'm related to the Schuylers somehow... I'm currently a "no" on that, although one of my ancestors served under Philip Schuyler's brother in the Revolution - Battle of Saratoga, I think.)

On my fathers side I'm descended from the Cortelyous and Van Wycks of New Amsterdam.

The other thing about the online form was that it required me to put in an email and phone number. Very annoying. I don't trust the government with that. I gave my yahoo email and my landline.

Does this mean we don't get the actual census in 2020? Only this test?!

Direct line to my great-grandmother is Jacob Schermerhorn (arrived circa 1640) with a few Van Burens and Van Vechtens mixed in. Based on their children's names, still speaking Dutch until about the revolution. I'm still looking into related families via marriage and such.

[aliciabella]

Apr 2, 2018 22:57:50 GMT -5 BicycleBride said:

I have a census question that is not directly related. In 2010 I filled out our census form and mailed it back right away (some people enjoy drugery tasks like cleaning, I enjoy filling out demographic information sheets). At some point later, a census worker knocked on our door and asked me some of the same questions. What was the point of the door to door person since I did fill out the form? Spot checking for accuracy?

Yes, accuracy for validity. Follow-ups are pulled randomly in certain sections of the country.

[isabel]

For the record, I am in no way suggesting that the 2020 census is going to be used for nefarious reasons... but I read this article today and it made me think of this thread.

Secret use of census info helped send Japanese Americans to internment camps in WWII
www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/03/secret-use-of-census-info-helped-send-japanese-americans-to-internment-camps-in-wwii/?utm_term=.3eff51d85fa9

[mouse]

Origin is very ambiguous. If my grandma's geneology is right, my mom's family came from England in the 1640s, and from France before that in 1066. So would that be French or English? My dad's side of the family were Welsh glass blowers that came over in the 1800s, am I Welsh because that's the most recent?

Don't get me started on asking this of someone whose ancestors were enslaved.