Little Fires Everywhere - book club discussion

[ufcasey]

Welcome to the sixth book club discussion of 2018! Everyone is welcome to join in at any time

This month's pick was Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ng

Just to help get you thinking, if you have a hard time figuring out what you want to say, there are some questions below that I found online. You definitely don't have to answer any of them!

Things to potentially consider:

1. There are many different kinds of mother-daughter relationships in the novel. Which ones did you find most compelling? Do mothers have a unique ability to spark fires, for good and ill, in us?

2. Which of the Richardson children is most changed by the events of the novel? How do you think this time ultimately changes Lexie’s life? Trip’s? Moody’s? Izzy’s?

3. The debate over the fate of May Ling/Mirabelle is multilayered and heartbreaking. Who do you think should raise her?

4. The novel begins with a great conflagration, but its conclusion is even more devastating. What do you think happens to Elena after the novel ends? To Mia and Pearl? To Izzy? Do you think Izzy ever returns to Shaker and her family? Why or why not?

5. How are class and race treated in this novel? What impact do they have on the story's events and the way the characters respond?



Feel free just to say what you thought of the book, how you rated it, what you liked/disliked, etc.

[ufcasey]

Tagging people who might have read this book:

aurora, smock, MrsAxilla, litskispeciality, msmerymac, OG Jo, abs, charlatti, rupertpenny, CheeringCharm, travella, turbo, ally, TR, cleo29, hulley, rainbowchip, krystee, shamrockshake, mrspez07, minzy, Gato,

[travella]

I really enjoyed this book, one of my favorites this year. Unfortunately, it was also the first book I read this year so I don't remember enough about it to discuss it in detail.

I do recall that I loved the character development and the complexity of the different familys' dynamics. There was so much going on in the book, but the author still made it easy to follow along. The author did a phenomenal job!

[minzy]

Same for me, it was awhile and many books ago, so the specific details are hazy now. I gave it five stars though, and remember that I found it engrossing. The age of the characters in the late 90s and the location were both personally familiar to me (i.e., I ate several times in one of the restaurants described in the book), so those details made it extra enjoyable to me.

[MrsAxilla]

I really liked this book! The description didn’t tell me much about it, so I never knew where the story was going. I expected it to do a lot more with Izzy from the opening, and I’m not sure I believe the resolution with that. I do believe a 13-14 year old (how old was she? Younger than Pearl and Moody) would take Mia’s word literally and be that impulsive, but she’s too young to burn down her old life and start fresh. There are practical considerations to being a teen runaway!

The race issues were right on target for 1997, and it was a good description of growing up colorblind and how that mindset whitewashes all the issues (pun intended- lol). I didn’t realize Shaker Heights planned for diversity (like with quotas??), especially after the comment early on about needed neighborhood approval of anyone buying a home there. Clearly the developers meant the “right kind” of diversity. The characters glossed over race, but the author conveyed how thick their bubble really was.

I loved how Ng interwove all the storylines together and they tied in with the title. Just like life, there were little fires everywhere that threatened to go out of control. I liked Elena as a plot devise (her character sucked - lol) but the ridgity of her life highlighted how out of control and messy real life is.

[ufcasey]

So I read this back in December, so I'm a little sketchy on some of the details. However I remember being absolutely SHOCKED about how Pearl was the biological daughter of Mia, but that Mia kind of stole her since she was supposed to be a surrogate for that other couple where the wife looked like Mia. That was all kinds of crazy. And then Pearl having a physical relationship with Trip, while Moody was secretly in love with her. Then add in Pearl helping hide Lexie's abortion, while Mia and Izzy grew closer. Just all kinds of drama going on and yet all of it was so very believable! I just really, really enjoyed this book. Poor Izzy definitely got the short end of the stick in all of it - the one person who she was close to moves away, poor kid. I thought the inclusion of the May Ling custody battle really showed how race and wealth impacted these characters lives, and how that defines who is a "good" mother in some people's eyes. I was team May Ling's bio mom - though I did have some empathy for the adoptive parents. I felt the same way towards Mia and the surrogate/adoptive parents - though I felt it was kind of heartless for Mia to take the man's biological child away without trying to just do shared custody via the courts first.

[MrsAxilla]

Jun 27, 2018 21:36:07 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

So I read this back in December, so I'm a little sketchy on some of the details. However I remember being absolutely SHOCKED about how Pearl was the biological daughter of Mia, but that Mia kind of stole her since she was supposed to be a surrogate for that other couple where the wife looked like Mia. That was all kinds of crazy. And then Pearl having a physical relationship with Trip, while Moody was secretly in love with her. Then add in Pearl helping hide Lexie's abortion, while Mia and Izzy grew closer. Just all kinds of drama going on and yet all of it was so very believable! I just really, really enjoyed this book. Poor Izzy definitely got the short end of the stick in all of it - the one person who she was close to moves away, poor kid. I thought the inclusion of the May Ling custody battle really showed how race and wealth impacted these characters lives, and how that defines who is a "good" mother in some people's eyes. I was team May Ling's bio mom - though I did have some empathy for the adoptive parents. I felt the same way towards Mia and the surrogate/adoptive parents - though I felt it was kind of heartless for Mia to take the man's biological child away without trying to just do shared custody via the courts first.

I thought for sure Mia was a surrogate for Pauline and her partner, and maybe Pauline’s death had to do with Mia raising Pearl. I did feel badly for the Ryan’s, but that kind of contract wasn’t exactly enforceable in the early 80’s.  They knew the risks.

[MrsAxilla]

DH grew up in Cleveland -two suburbs over from Shaker Heights. It was interesting to hear his take on the way it was described, particularly because he’s Jewish and so his experiences were different. He said in the late 90’s, Shaker was already suffering from white flight. People like the Richardson’s probably owned their home outright and could afford renovations and a nice lifestyle with their modest careers. But by then, most of the wealthy whites had moved further out. DH said you could draw expanding concentric circles around Cleveland with the same pattern: whites, Jews, blacks; whites, Jews, blacks.

All that just makes the Richardson’s privileged bubble more infuriating- lol.

[bex]

I liked this book, but there was a lot going on.

I thought class and race were obviously the big drivers of the story here. Elena didn't like Pearl and Mia because she thought they were intruding, or reaching too far out of their class, etc. She also assumed that the child (Mirabelle? or Mae Ling? I read the book a while ago and am having trouble placing some of the characters names) would be better off with the wealthy white family.

I also thought it was shitty how Lexie tried to hide her abortion and act like it was Pearl's - that just seemed to me so "poor girls like you get abortions, rich girls like me don't."

I thought Izzy's character was a little extreme in many ways. I mean she burned the house down? That's not something you just bounce back from as a family.

[rainbowchip]

I liked this book but I didn't love it. I can appreciate that it was well written and the story was tied together well. Endings are a big deal to me and Izzy just leaving at the end gave me no closure at all.

I have Everything I Never Told You on my hold list. I'm wondering if these books are similar.

[tacokick]

Jun 28, 2018 6:41:40 GMT -5 rainbowchip said:

I liked this book but I didn't love it. I can appreciate that it was well written and the story was tied together well. Endings are a big deal to me and Izzy just leaving at the end gave me no closure at all.

I have Everything I Never Told You on my hold list. I'm wondering if these books are similar.

I liked her first book a lot more. This one was well-written but there was so much going on. I felt like her editor failed her a bit on this one. The ending seemed a bit rushed to me.

[CloudBee]

snipsnsnails

[mrspez07]

I really like the author’s character development, in both of her books.
I felt like any one of these characters could have had a whole additional section dedicated to their story, and in some cases their own book. Despite the chaos of everything going on, it felt realistic to me except for the extreme reaction by Lexie and the ending. I also think this story could continue from many of the character perspectives.
My heart hurt for the brother who was overlooked (blanking on his name) and for Lexie who was ignored. The author is great about writing characters you root for and hope will make different choices to make things turn out better, so much of this book was “only if”... someone chose to do something differently.

[smock]

I loved the book––for how it tackled huge problems like race and class through very human stories, and for how it didn't make anything simple. For example, with the May Ling storyline, I definitely sided with the biological mother, particularly since much of the other side's argument rested on racist and classist arguments. But then the backstory for Mia and Pearl totally complicated that view. I liked Mia throughout the book, but damn she stole someone's baby! Mia's flashback conversation with her parents really stuck with me, when her parents said "how could you sell your baby?" And yet, she took the baby away from the biological father and denied Pearl a relationship with her father.

Part of why I really connected with the book is because I have a mostly good/somewhat complicated relationship with my mother, and I'm raising two daughters. I really identified with Pearl wanting to slip into another family's privileged life, and Izzy's attempts to escape her mother's overbearing pressure and negativity. I also liked Lexie's transformation, from clueless popular girl to someone who had a much different perspective by the end of the book. And Ng did a fantastic job balancing between the stories focused on the parents and the children. In that sense, it reminded me of Emma Straub's Modern Lovers, which I also liked.

[expectantsteelerfan]

The thing that stayed with me the most from this book, which I also read a while ago, was that I identified most with Elena. I grew up feeling a lot like Pearl, wanting what those around me had, and as an adult I struggle to balance what I do have and my desire for control, rules, expectations, with my desire for justice, equality, and helping others. I am not close with my mother, and my biggest fear in life is that my kids will feel about me the way I feel about my mom when they are grown. I think the most depressing part of the book for me was that neither mom, the rule-follower or the rule-breaker, had as close and honest a relationship with their daughter(s).
And like many others, I found Izzy's burning down the house extreme, and I worried that she wouldn't survive her teenage rebellion to even have a chance to return home and have an adult relationship with her family.

[litskispeciality]

I'll have to go back and read all of the comments. Here are some initial thoughts:

I really enjoyed this book. I wish I knew it was a bit of a slow burn, but it's very much her style. I have to give her credit I hate Elena, she's an entitled b**** which means this was well written. I'm so torn, I don't know what was better for Mai-Ling (sp?) as she had a good home. I don't know if taking her away to another country even if she was only a year old was the right move, but it didn't seem like there was a "right" move. There were so many racial issues I wouldn't even think of, and some stuff that made me cringe.

Overall this was a good book. I liked Pearl and was surprised to learn the backstory. Again not sure if she would have been better off with the other family in a more stable environment, but Mia did a good job raising her with what she had.

[msmerymac]

I really liked this book. I think it's something most women could identify with in some way, regardless of lifestyle, background, or family status. I'm really close to my mom, but because of that, we've also had a contentuous relationship. I also deal with infertility. I enjoy that the novel explored all types of parenthood (or un-parenthood) and different mother-daughter relationships.

I think May Ling should have been raised by her bio mother, but I can also see how in 1997/1998 that would have been more of a question/controversial. And I sympathize with Mirabelle's adoptive parents, but damn. You're stealing a baby that's wanted by her own mother. Adoption should definitely, absolutely, all the time, be a free choice and never coerced. I think the difference in people supporting Mirabelle's "rich" parents and Elena thinking Pearl "stole" the Ryans' baby is telling.

Also, I had the impression that this novel was just a snapshot of what life is always like for Mia and Pearl. Mia leaves town because she's burned everything down, intentionally or not. That's just who she is. She doesn't get restless after a project - she's no longer welcome once she's completed a project. So I have no doubt something similar will happen again, and has happened to them before.

[bronxgirl]

Jun 27, 2018 23:19:07 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

DH grew up in Cleveland -two suburbs over from Shaker Heights. It was interesting to hear his take on the way it was described, particularly because he’s Jewish and so his experiences were different. He said in the late 90’s, Shaker was already suffering from white flight. People like the Richardson’s probably owned their home outright and could afford renovations and a nice lifestyle with their modest careers. But by then, most of the wealthy whites had moved further out. DH said you could draw expanding concentric circles around Cleveland with the same pattern: whites, Jews, blacks; whites, Jews, blacks.

All that just makes the Richardson’s privileged bubble more infuriating- lol.

Although the Jewish community in Cleveland has moved further east, there is still a large Jewish population in Shaker and certainly in the 90s when the story took place.  There is also still a huge WASP/ old money contingent, but there are many other areas that used to be predominantly white (probably though the 80s) that have become predominantly black over the last 25 years or so.

[Gato]

I wish I had better commentary but I read the book quite a while ago. I really liked it a lot. I thought the establishment of the characters and the weaving of plots was super skillful on a technical level.

I also enjoyed the contrast of Mia's free spirit/creativity with Elena's rigidity. This seems to be a tension most adults feel. I don't see Elena changing. Mia either, to be honest, if she's willing once again to uproot their family. But I think Pearl will turn out okay since Mia is essentially a kind and generous parent.

[aurora]

I finally finished this book! (It took a while to get my library hold.) I liked it but it was not at all what I expected.

I really struggled with the Mae Ling/Mirabelle conflict, and I'm glad the author described the conflict the judge felt. It's not always easy to know what is best for the child.

I was a bit surprised that the book ended with no resolution on Izzy. I hope she found happiness.

I am also really curious whether Pearl will ever decide she wants to meet her grandparents or her biological Dad.

I realize it's weird that I'm talking about fictional characters as though they are real, but I guess that's the nature of the loose ends in this book!

[aurora]

Jun 27, 2018 21:00:19 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

...
The race issues were right on target for 1997, and it was a good description of growing up colorblind and how that mindset whitewashes all the issues (pun intended- lol). I didn’t realize Shaker Heights planned for diversity (like with quotas??), especially after the comment early on about needed neighborhood approval of anyone buying a home there. Clearly the developers meant the “right kind” of diversity. The characters glossed over race, but the author conveyed how thick their bubble really was.

...

Yes - I didn't live in a planned community or anything, but heard a lot of these types of statements about color-blindness in the 90s that missed a lot.

I actually didn't realize Shaker Heights was a real place until I read the interview with Ng at the end!

[aurora]

Jun 28, 2018 6:47:02 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Jun 28, 2018 6:41:40 GMT -5 rainbowchip said:

I liked this book but I didn't love it. I can appreciate that it was well written and the story was tied together well. Endings are a big deal to me and Izzy just leaving at the end gave me no closure at all.

I have Everything I Never Told You on my hold list. I'm wondering if these books are similar.

I liked her first book a lot more. This one was well-written but there was so much going on. I felt like her editor failed her a bit on this one. The ending seemed a bit rushed to me.

Thanks for the rec - I just added Everything... to my library holds.

[aurora]

Jun 29, 2018 11:02:33 GMT -5 smock said:

I loved the book––for how it tackled huge problems like race and class through very human stories, and for how it didn't make anything simple. For example, with the May Ling storyline, I definitely sided with the biological mother, particularly since much of the other side's argument rested on racist and classist arguments. But then the backstory for Mia and Pearl totally complicated that view. I liked Mia throughout the book, but damn she stole someone's baby! Mia's flashback conversation with her parents really stuck with me, when her parents said "how could you sell your baby?" And yet, she took the baby away from the biological father and denied Pearl a relationship with her father.
...

It's interesting that one complicated the other for you. I saw Pearl being raised by at least one biological parents from birth and, though problematic that Mia forced the separation from her biological father, definitely see it as different from the Mae Ling situation.

Note also that the Mae Ling situation would never have happened in the first place if we had adequate support for families in this country so that her mom didn't feel so desperate, but maybe that's a conversation for CEP.