New Dog Help

[kidtwoae]

Sorry for using the AE, but I know how people get on here about pet adoptions and I really need help and I don’t know what to do.

First, I have five cats and a 2.5 year old DD. She loves dogs. We had a 16 year old dog we had to say goodbye to in December. Since about March, we’ve been looking for a new dog to bring home.

We thought we found the perfect dog. Not too big, not too small. Loving and not too hyper. We went to meet him, and since it is from our local humane society, there really is no long term meet and greet. You can see the dog for a few minutes, and really you need to make your decision. They had no real info on the dog except he came from another shelter. We take him near the cat cages at the humane society and he didn’t react at all. We walk him around and DD pets him and they seem fine.

We get home, and despite my best efforts, one of the cats is introduced to him way too early and goes right for him. The dog whimpers and the cat is relentless. I finally got them apart but it wasn’t a great start.

Now that he has had a couple of days to adjust, it’s clear he wants to chase the cats. He won’t leave them alone, and they are all very on edge.

He is being crated in the basement when we aren’t home and at night, but he can hear the cats upstairs when we are with him and he tries to run upstairs to go after them.

Our last dog got along great with our cats, and not knowing this dogs history. I hoped he would, too.

Another layer is that he has been nipping at us for no reason. He has done it three times to me and twice to DH. He hasn’t actually bitten, but in two instances there was absolutely no provocation.

I’m not sure what to do. We have him scheduled for obedience training but it doesn’t start for two weeks. I’m really worried about what might happen in those two weeks. Will he end up biting one of us or DD or hurting a cat?

I’m so torn. He’s only been here 3 days, and I know that is not enough time to adjust. But given what he’s done in 3 days, can I just sit here and wait for something to potentially happen?

He is a wonderful dog otherwise. He sleeps well overnight, is house broken, and very loving. He needs to learn some manners, which is why we signed him up for classes. But I’m just really wondering if he would be better suited for a home without cats or small children?

I have been so sick about this all day. WWYD? I feel so awful even considering taking him back, but I’m also scared he might hurt someone in my family. He’s not aggressive, but toddlers and cats are so unpredictable and he’s already nipped unprovoked. I’m just so conflicted because I know I made a commitment and I’m a huge animal lover, I just don’t know if we are right for him and I don’t want to let him down. Please give me any advice/help.

[winecat]

Hire a behaviorist, not a trainer.

[audry80]

On the fourth day of having our rescue, he tried to attack and bite the dog walker. I freaked out! We hired a trainer/behaviorist and it was the best money. It was the dog walker and our fault not the dogs. Give it time and keep him on a leash at all times. He is probably scared. Our dog does not like strangers but due to strict routines, he now tolerates them. He is the best dog ever but it took a lot of work. Good luck.

[cmeon]

Can you tell us more about the nipping incidents? What was happening at the time, how did he seem (nervous? excited? really not upset at all?), when there were provocations- what were they? Is he actually making contact with skin?

It is not unusual for a dog to need some "gentle mouth" training, along with obedience training. It can almost always be achieved with enough work. Unfortunately, having a toddler in the home complicates things an awful lot.

[kidtwoae]

The first time he nipped or snapped at DH because he was trying to get the leash on him.

He actually did the same thing to the vet when he was trying to look at his back leg.

He did it to me when I was trying to move him off of the couch and told him “No!” He then went for my hand, and then kind of lunged toward me. Another time I was trying to get his leash off.

He also snapped at DH when he was sitting in the couch, and DH moved his hand.

It isn’t a bite, but he put him mouth on our hands and in one case did leave a mark. Just a scratch with his tooth. I’m not sure how to explain it.

If it were just DH and I, I would not hesitate for a minute to hire a behaviorist, but just having DD and the five cats in the mix is really giving me major anxiety. I don’t want him to snap at her and hurt her or cause her to be afraid of him.

[kidtwoae]

Jul 8, 2018 20:59:21 GMT -5 cmeon said:

Can you tell us more about the nipping incidents? What was happening at the time, how did he seem (nervous? excited? really not upset at all?), when there were provocations- what were they? Is he actually making contact with skin?

It is not unusual for a dog to need some "gentle mouth" training, along with obedience training. It can almost always be achieved with enough work. Unfortunately, having a toddler in the home complicates things an awful lot.

Forgot to hit reply to this before, and I did respond above.

Forgot to add, he seemed very agitated. Kind of barked as he went to “bite.”

[cmeon]

I can be an incredibly judgmental asshole when it comes to how easily people give up on pets. People are lazy, people are cruel.

That said- if I were in your shoes, I would return that dog to the shelter tomorrow- with a clear explanation of the nips (just like you did here) and tell them that he doesn't appear to be socialized with cats. And I know you're missing a dog in your life right now, but, hold off- wait until your child is a little older, be patient and the right one will come up. Look for one fostered in a home with cats and children. I'm sorry for your experience, this sucks for everyone- it doesn't always work out, and a child's safety does need to come first.

[audry80]

Sounds like you are looking for permission to give him back to the shelter? Is that what you are wanting? Or do you want advice on how to try to correct the behavior?

[kidtwoae]

Jul 8, 2018 21:18:41 GMT -5 cmeon said:

I can be an incredibly judgmental asshole when it comes to how easily people give up on pets. People are lazy, people are cruel.

That said- if I were in your shoes, I would return that dog to the shelter tomorrow- with a clear explanation of the nips (just like you did here) and tell them that he doesn't appear to be socialized with cats. And I know you're missing a dog in your life right now, but, hold off- wait until your child is a little older, be patient and the right one will come up. Look for one fostered in a home with cats and children. I'm sorry for your experience, this sucks for everyone- it doesn't always work out, and a child's safety does need to come first.

He really is a great dog, and I feel he would be perfect in a home without cats (and probably small kids). I feel so guilty that we have shown him such a good life only to just take him back to the shelter.

I have adopted many cats and dogs over the years, and never had to take one back, but I go back and forth about him. One minute I want to give him another chance, and another I think he needs a different home.

And as far as a behaviorist goes, I just feel like he is already a great dog — for someone else. Like I said, he is house broken and loving (most of the time), he listens well and walks well on a leash, and is crate trained. But the issues we are having just wouldn’t be issues for someone else, kwim? I’ve been crying about this all day. I just really do want the best for him, and I know they will find him a home that is more suitable to his needs.

But I just can’t help but feel like we are failing him by doing so, and then again, if something were to happen, we would be failing the cats and DD.

I am just having a really hard time, so thank you for your understanding. We didn’t go into this intending for it to end this way.

[cleo29]

I would wonder if he had been hit before. He seems to be reacting to seeing a hand come at him, though not in a hitting motion, but he does not know that. our Grey did not nip but would cower a bit from H in similar situations which makes us think he was swatted before.

I would talk to a pro to see if they think this is something that can be overcome. I do think this is a big adjustment, for all involved, and in many ways 4 days is pretty short. he might be a dog that is better suited to be the sole pet in the house. To not live with young children. I don't know.

[kidtwoae]

Jul 8, 2018 21:21:47 GMT -5 audry80 said:

Sounds like you are looking for permission to give him back to the shelter? Is that what you are wanting? Or do you want advice on how to try to correct the behavior?

[br

No, I don’t need anyone’s permission to make a decision. I’m looking for realistic advice. I’ve read that dogs can’t be trained to not chase cats and I’ve read that they can. I just need help figuring this out because I’ve not been in this situation before. I have googled several behaviorists in the area, and none seem to mention curbing that behavior.

[cleo29]

Jul 8, 2018 21:27:24 GMT -5 kidtwoae said:

Jul 8, 2018 21:18:41 GMT -5 cmeon said:

I can be an incredibly judgmental asshole when it comes to how easily people give up on pets. People are lazy, people are cruel.

That said- if I were in your shoes, I would return that dog to the shelter tomorrow- with a clear explanation of the nips (just like you did here) and tell them that he doesn't appear to be socialized with cats. And I know you're missing a dog in your life right now, but, hold off- wait until your child is a little older, be patient and the right one will come up. Look for one fostered in a home with cats and children. I'm sorry for your experience, this sucks for everyone- it doesn't always work out, and a child's safety does need to come first.

He really is a great dog, and I feel he would be perfect in a home without cats (and probably small kids). I feel so guilty that we have shown him such a good life only to just take him back to the shelter.

I have adopted many cats and dogs over the years, and never had to take one back, but I go back and forth about him. One minute I want to give him another chance, and another I think he needs a different home.

And as far as a behaviorist goes, I just feel like he is already a great dog — for someone else. Like I said, he is house broken and loving (most of the time), he listens well and walks well on a leash, and is crate trained. But the issues we are having just wouldn’t be issues for someone else, kwim? I’ve been crying about this all day. I just really do want the best for him, and I know they will find him a home that is more suitable to his needs.

But I just can’t help but feel like we are failing him by doing so, and then again, if something were to happen, we would be failing the cats and DD.

I am just having a really hard time, so thank you for your understanding. We didn’t go into this intending for it to end this way.

the nipping you mentioned were situations that would or could happen in any house. he sees a hand coming towards him and is trying to snap, so to me I think if you do return him, they need to look into working with him. Maybe he was hit by a previous owner. I don't know.

[kidtwoae]

Jul 8, 2018 21:31:40 GMT -5 cleo29 said:

Jul 8, 2018 21:27:24 GMT -5 kidtwoae said:

He really is a great dog, and I feel he would be perfect in a home without cats (and probably small kids). I feel so guilty that we have shown him such a good life only to just take him back to the shelter.

I have adopted many cats and dogs over the years, and never had to take one back, but I go back and forth about him. One minute I want to give him another chance, and another I think he needs a different home.

And as far as a behaviorist goes, I just feel like he is already a great dog — for someone else. Like I said, he is house broken and loving (most of the time), he listens well and walks well on a leash, and is crate trained. But the issues we are having just wouldn’t be issues for someone else, kwim? I’ve been crying about this all day. I just really do want the best for him, and I know they will find him a home that is more suitable to his needs.

But I just can’t help but feel like we are failing him by doing so, and then again, if something were to happen, we would be failing the cats and DD.

I am just having a really hard time, so thank you for your understanding. We didn’t go into this intending for it to end this way.

the nipping you mentioned were situations that would or could happen in any house. he sees a hand coming towards him and is trying to snap, so to me I think if you do return him, they need to look into working with him. Maybe he was hit by a previous owner. I don't know.

Yeah, the issues are two separate ones. I guess I just feel like small nipping and snapping would be easier to deal with if there aren’t small kids in the picture. But I could be wrong.

[audry80]

Jul 8, 2018 21:31:33 GMT -5 kidtwoae said:

Jul 8, 2018 21:21:47 GMT -5 audry80 said:

Sounds like you are looking for permission to give him back to the shelter? Is that what you are wanting? Or do you want advice on how to try to correct the behavior?

[br

No, I don’t need anyone’s permission to make a decision. I’m looking for realistic advice. I’ve read that dogs can’t be trained to not chase cats and I’ve read that they can. I just need help figuring this out because I’ve not been in this situation before. I have googled several behaviorists in the area, and none seem to mention curbing that behavior.

Thanks for clarifying. I am sensitive to the situation because our dog had two previous adopters and him being returned twice really fucked him up. I also do not have children so can’t speak to that concern. I know most behaviorist will do a phone consultation so I would see if you could get one to see if his behaviors are correctable. Good luck. 

[cmeon]

Sometimes dogs who react to cats can be trained to ignore them. But, no promises- it's a big concern with so many cats. This would be behaviorist territory.

The couch related nipping is my biggest concern- this kind of behavior (resource guarding) can become dangerous quickly. For the time being, he should not be on the couch or any people furniture at all- keep a lead on him so you can direct him safely. Can you take a toy away from him without a growl? Food? This is something the right people can work through with some NILF, behavior work and training- but, this is also the type of situation where kids tend to get bitten.

ETA: Yes, I'd have different advice if the 2.5yo weren't in the picture. But, she is.

[mrs.jacinthe]

Anecdote: Our rescue used to chase the cats and is definitely mouthy. To be honest, the cat thing is not too much of a concern to me if you're crating when you're not available to supervise. Our girl has learned, thanks to the power of claws of fury, that cats are not something to be messed with, and she no longer chases them in any way other than occasional playfulness. She is still quite mouthy and occasionally destructively chews, but has never bitten. However, I would not want her in close contact with a small child for any length of time, because while she may not "bite", I can't trust her not to snap at children.

Our rescue goes by the 3-3-3 rule. 3 days to relax around you, 3 weeks to really trust you, and 3 months to become the dog they really are.

That said, I'd contact a behaviorist tomorrow. Talk about the snapping. Ask if that's something they can work with, and go with their recommendation. As a parent, your first responsibility is to your child and the behaviorist should be able to guide you.

[Jalapeñomel]

Hire a behaviorist tomorrow and ask them to come out immediately, but be expected to pay $$$ for it.


It seems crazy to me that you’d bring a rescue dog to a house with 5 cats. That’s a lot of cats, especially for an animal who is trying to adjust to a new home and new owners.

[isabel]

Jul 8, 2018 21:49:36 GMT -5 cmeon said:

Sometimes dogs who react to cats can be trained to ignore them. But, no promises- it's a big concern with so many cats. This would be behaviorist territory.

The couch related nipping is my biggest concern- this kind of behavior (resource guarding) can become dangerous quickly. For the time being, he should not be on the couch or any people furniture at all- keep a lead on him so you can direct him safely. Can you take a toy away from him without a growl? Food? This is something the right people can work through with some NILF, behavior work and training- but, this is also the type of situation where kids tend to get bitten.

ETA: Yes, I'd have different advice if the 2.5yo weren't in the picture. But, she is.

I'm here.

I will say, I would not have adopted a dog that I wasn't sure was good with kids. That would mean knowing the dog was fostered in a home with children and feeling comfortable in my conversations with the foster parents. It's not a guarantee, but is much more likely to lead to a positive outcome. I only say that to make the point that if you return this dog and adopt another, I would seriously consider where the dog is coming from and make sure you know as much about its background as possible.

All that said, my children come first. If I had legitimate concerns that my kids were going to be bitten, I would return the dog. 

Our dog is 16 and has had some resource guarding issues in her life. Thankfully, she has never come close to biting our kids, but it's something we're hyper aware of and we make sure none of them (the dog or the kids) are ever in a position where that could happen. But I've had her for her entire life and she was already pretty old when DS1 was born. If there had been issues, we would have worked it out because she's part of our family. I wouldn't be so quick to make that kind of effort with a dog I had had for 3 days.

I want to stress though that you need to really do your due diligence on the next dog if this one doesn't stick. It's not fair to the animal at all. The way you adopted this one would be fine if you didn't have kids or if they were older, but it wasn't a great move knowing you have a toddler and other pets.

[jenny1980]

How old is the dog? What do you know about his background?

Nipping/biting at being corrected is obviously not great. Honestly, though, five cats and a 2.5 year old is a LOT for any rescue dog to adapt to. If you end up returning him, I'd absolutely wait until your kiddo is at *least* 5 before getting another rescue. Toddlers are probably the very worst age for introducing an adult dog into your home.

[kidtwoae]

I will own that we messed up, and if this doesn’t work out, we may just be a cat-only family.

I do think he is a wonderful dog, and just needs some help. I’m just not sure that we can give him the help knowing he could hurt DD, but I am going to contact a few behaviorists tomorrow and see what they can tell me. I don’t want to give up on the dog so quickly, but I also don’t want to make everyone live in a hostile environment. If we do end up having to take him back I will do everything I can to see that he goes to a home that can allow him to thrive. I want to do what is best for him, and I will know more what that is after speaking to some professionals.

I also don’t think it’s crazy we brought him home with 5 cats. I’ve only had rescue dogs, and I’ve always had at least 3 cats, and never had an issue where I thought the dog was going to hurt my cats. Maybe I’ve been lucky. There have been instances of course, where the dog and cat might get in small fights. But I’ve never been concerned for the safety of the cats.

[AvonHo]

Return him to the Humane Society so that he can try again for a good home. Honestly, forget about a dog. Wtf were you thinking with 5 cats?! And a toddler. Seriously,  AE , you suck.

[scout8]

Jul 8, 2018 22:29:14 GMT -5 AvonHo said:

Return him to the Humane Society so that he can try again for a good home. Honestly, forget about a dog. Wtf were you thinking with 5 cats?! And a toddler. Seriously,  AE , you suck.

What? Just because someone has cats and a toddler, they can't adopt a dog? You are being awfully harsh here.

[woodgnome]

We adopted a small terrier/poodle mix from the shelter a few months ago. They said he was good with all animals only he actually HATES cats which is unfortunate since we have one. We keep them separated and it seems to be working ok.

Definitely hire a behaviorist. When we had our first baby, our terrier didnt know what was going on and seemed like she wanted to eat him. We called the trainer we had worked with and she immediately said we should give the dog away. We found a behaviorist who came the next day & it took one session for the dog to figure it out. She’s literally the BEST dog with our son now....I once found him hugging her so hard she was gasping for air and she still didn’t nip or even growl at him.

Give it some time, crate train, find a behaviorist and keep the dog separated from the cats and toddler for now.

[kidtwoae]

Jul 8, 2018 22:29:14 GMT -5 AvonHo said:

Return him to the Humane Society so that he can try again for a good home. Honestly, forget about a dog. Wtf were you thinking with 5 cats?! And a toddler. Seriously,  AE , you suck.

Plenty of dogs are fine coexisting with cats. And DD has been around animals all her life, and does really well with them. I don’t think one mistake means I suck. I am trying to figure out how to make the situation work for everyone. I have adopted most of my animals from this same humane society, and they know I have cats and a toddler and they had no concerns about him coming home with us. He seemed like a great fit, but sometimes things don’t work out.

[cmeon]

I just want to note that resource guarding is well within normal dog behavior- it's in their genetic code to guard limited resources. It is a behavior that needs modification to mesh well with humans, though. And FWIW, a nip is a warning- it's good that he's warning you instead of going in for a bite (so don't punish in that moment- just use a leash/treat to guide him away from the couch/resource).

Unfortunately, dogs who nip while resource guarding against adult humans- are often harsher with little humans. Some absurd percentage of dog bites to children are related to resource guarding- most estimates are around 50% of them (and maybe higher- people aren't the best at reading dog behavior). Once a dog bites a child, his chance at finding a home that can work with him plummets.

[kidtwoae]

Jul 8, 2018 22:42:27 GMT -5 woodgnome said:

We adopted a small terrier/poodle mix from the shelter a few months ago. They said he was good with all animals only he actually HATES cats which is unfortunate since we have one. We keep them separated and it seems to be working ok.

Definitely hire a behaviorist. When we had our first baby, our terrier didnt know what was going on and seemed like she wanted to eat him. We called the trainer we had worked with and she immediately said we should give the dog away. We found a behaviorist who came the next day & it took one session for the dog to figure it out. She’s literally the BEST dog with our son now....I once found him hugging her so hard she was gasping for air and she still didn’t nip or even growl at him.

Give it some time, crate train, find a behaviorist and keep the dog separated from the cats and toddler for now.

Pretty sure he is a terrier/poodle mix, too. Separating him from one cat would be easy, but I’m not sure how well I can keep all 5 separate from him without keeping him or the cats all locked up. And that just doesn’t seem fair to him or the cats. Maybe they will eventually get along, but I’m not sure I can keep that up for years if they don’t.

[woodgnome]

Jul 8, 2018 22:51:32 GMT -5 kidtwoae said:

Jul 8, 2018 22:42:27 GMT -5 woodgnome said:

We adopted a small terrier/poodle mix from the shelter a few months ago. They said he was good with all animals only he actually HATES cats which is unfortunate since we have one. We keep them separated and it seems to be working ok.

Definitely hire a behaviorist. When we had our first baby, our terrier didnt know what was going on and seemed like she wanted to eat him. We called the trainer we had worked with and she immediately said we should give the dog away. We found a behaviorist who came the next day & it took one session for the dog to figure it out. She’s literally the BEST dog with our son now....I once found him hugging her so hard she was gasping for air and she still didn’t nip or even growl at him.

Give it some time, crate train, find a behaviorist and keep the dog separated from the cats and toddler for now.

Pretty sure he is a terrier/poodle mix, too. Separating him from one cat would be easy, but I’m not sure how well I can keep all 5 separate from him without keeping him or the cats all locked up. And that just doesn’t seem fair to him or the cats. Maybe they will eventually get along, but I’m not sure I can keep that up for years if they don’t.

I think ultimately, your responsibility is to your cats and child. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. It’s unfortunate but you have to keep them safe.

[AvonHo]

Jul 8, 2018 22:43:49 GMT -5 kidtwoae said:

Jul 8, 2018 22:29:14 GMT -5 AvonHo said:

Return him to the Humane Society so that he can try again for a good home. Honestly, forget about a dog. Wtf were you thinking with 5 cats?! And a toddler. Seriously,  AE , you suck.

Plenty of dogs are fine coexisting with cats. And DD has been around animals all her life, and does really well with them. I don’t think one mistake means I suck. I am trying to figure out how to make the situation work for everyone. I have adopted most of my animals from this same humane society, and they know I have cats and a toddler and they had no concerns about him coming home with us. He seemed like a great fit, but sometimes things don’t work out.

5 cats! Not one or two, five. Be a cat person. Uggh

[10outof9]

Jul 8, 2018 23:18:21 GMT -5 AvonHo said:

Jul 8, 2018 22:43:49 GMT -5 kidtwoae said:

Plenty of dogs are fine coexisting with cats. And DD has been around animals all her life, and does really well with them. I don’t think one mistake means I suck. I am trying to figure out how to make the situation work for everyone. I have adopted most of my animals from this same humane society, and they know I have cats and a toddler and they had no concerns about him coming home with us. He seemed like a great fit, but sometimes things don’t work out.

5 cats! Not one or two, five. Be a cat person. Uggh

I have 5 cats and a 65 pound pitbull, and my dog is in love with the cats. Granted, I only had 2 cats when I adopted the dog, but it’s not absurd to think that cats and dogs can’t coexist.

OP, I wish you the best of luck in finding a behaviorist

[dexteroni]

I'm getting from your OP and comments that you want to return him. If that's really what you want to do, do it. Keeping a dog you don't want won't work out well for anyone. Just do it now before he settles in, and this will be a blip on his little doggy memory. Make sure to tell them about the cat situation and the nipping so they can do a better job at placing him next time. 

If you really don't know what you want to do (although you *really* sound like you do), call a couple behaviorists right away, like first thing tomorrow morning. Maybe one can come out immediately like someone else mentioned, and you can a better assessment of what you're dealing with. It still doesn't mean you have to keep the dog, but this will help you make your decision with more confidence.

What I would NOT recommend doing is to think and hem and haw for a month and then return him after he's started to feel like this is his home. That would be unfair and a shitty thing to do to a dog who might already have some obstacles to overcome. Whether you return him or commit to keeping him, IMO you need to make the decision by the end of this week.

If you do return him...don't get another dog. Not for a while, and not from this humane society. The fact that you've gotten your other pets there isn't really relevant now; you didn't have five other pets and a toddler then. You have a lot more to consider now, so you need more information about prospective pets. Go to a shelter or rescue where they get to know the dogs, and will let you have more than a 5 minute meet and greet, and maybe even a trial period at home before you officially adopt.

And I agree with whoever said to wait until your DD is older before you get another dog. An established cat squad plus a toddler is a lot to spring on any dog, let alone one about whom you know nothing. That's not a fair situation for anyone involved.