They only thing I care about is trying to avoid having initials spell out something awful like A.S.S. or F.A.T.
As someone with a "foreign" first name and last name Abby can fuck right off with this nonsense. I constantly tell students that if I say their name wrong to correct me every time. I try really hard with names and spelling, and I never call a kid by a nickname unless they tell me to.
Also making sure the first initial and last name when combined don't make an awful word. Which is something I've seen now twice, and it makes things pretty awkward for them when email addresses are assigned.
I wish I had thought of this before I changed my name when I got married.
Also making sure the first initial and last name when combined don't make an awful word. Which is something I've seen now twice, and it makes things pretty awkward for them when email addresses are assigned.
I wish I had thought of this before I changed my name when I got married.
Also making sure the first initial and last name when combined don't make an awful word. Which is something I've seen now twice, and it makes things pretty awkward for them when email addresses are assigned.
I wish I had thought of this before I changed my name when I got married.
I was aware of that because my initials spell a (perfectly fine) word.
My SIL was not and my niece's initials spell something...not great. I'm the only one who's noticed so far, and I am hoping no one else does.
Post by Velar Fricative on Oct 18, 2018 12:36:41 GMT -5
As a first-generation American who grew up speaking a language that enjoys putting an unlimited amount of consonants next to each other, I grew up feeling relieved that my parents named me Marie and not, say, Shqiptare (the name of one of my SIL's students with the same background). I really did grow up wondering why other parents from this community would name their kids impossible-to-pronounce names, and I think a lot of that was a way to assert that I was just as American as the kids who traced their ancestors to the Mayflower. Then I grew up and got tired of that shit.
It really isn't that hard to just ask how a person pronounces their name. Yes, some non-English consonant sounds are next-to-impossible for a native English speaker to say correctly, but essentially then you're just saying their name with an accent. Not a big deal if you don't mind non-Americans pronouncing your name with their accent. Much better than insisting they accommodate you and your lack of pronunciation skills.
Also, raangoli, I was going to bring up Siobhan as an example too. I have never heard any wonder aloud why someone would name their daughter that; they usually say, "Oh, how pretty!!!!" But, you know, ethnic Irish people aren't *that* foreign to America, not like Indians or Koreans. /sarcasm
I'd say a good 50-60% of the kids in my son's 1st grade class have non-western names and as far as I know no one is being teased and all the kids figure out how to pronounce their friends' names quickly and without much of an issue. If six year olds can easily manage it then adults need to get over themselves.
I would agree. Suhashi and Esteban are as normal to my daughter as Evie and Zayden.
On the other hand, my daughter laments the perfectly normal name I gave her because it doesn't sounds like a princess name (*despite* it actually having BEEN the name of a queen) and her friend Stephanie wants to be called Unicorn. I hated my very common western (yet apparently hard to spell?) name growing up ESPECIALLY when it was paired with my father's last name. I came to terms with my name ages ago. Half of the population seems to hate their name at one point or another.
Funny story: My son has a friend at school named Gawain. When he first came home & told me about his new buddy I would swear up, down and sideways that child said Gowron. Being the trekkie I am, I naturally pictured a miniature version of this guy:
My son, being the child of a trekkie, knew of this warrior. Despite that and my son's inability to enunciate, there was no teasing.
Post by goldengirlz on Oct 18, 2018 13:42:46 GMT -5
This hits close to home because my grandfather, like thousands of Jewish immigrants, changed his name to an Anglicized version when he came to this country as a Holocaust survivor. Sometimes the names were even assigned to them by immigration officials.
It’s a bullshit response. And uncommon names become common as we hear them again and again. Forget about Irish names: we all figured out how to pronounce “Neveah” because it’s Heaven spelled backward!!!!
If you only hear white names all day, everyday, maybe the problem is the community you choose to live in and the people you choose to associate with.
I'd say a good 50-60% of the kids in my son's 1st grade class have non-western names and as far as I know no one is being teased and all the kids figure out how to pronounce their friends' names quickly and without much of an issue. If six year olds can easily manage it then adults need to get over themselves.
This is where I sit. My son started K this year and on his orientation night he and I walked over to his teacher to ask her how to pronounce her name (de los Reyes) to make sure that both of us were doing so correctly. She told us and said, "Don't worry, the kids pick it up right away. It's usually the parents who have more trouble. Thank you for asking."
They only thing I care about is trying to avoid having initials spell out something awful like A.S.S. or F.A.T.
As someone with a "foreign" first name and last name Abby can fuck right off with this nonsense. I constantly tell students that if I say their name wrong to correct me every time. I try really hard with names and spelling, and I never call a kid by a nickname unless they tell me to.
Also making sure the first initial and last name when combined don't make an awful word. Which is something I've seen now twice, and it makes things pretty awkward for them when email addresses are assigned.
My dad had a problem with this at his job because of the way they combined names, despite having a completely "Western" name. His company does the first 5 of your last name, followed by first initial and middle initial. My dad's email address that was assigned was "harribj@company.com." No joke.
I'd say a good 50-60% of the kids in my son's 1st grade class have non-western names and as far as I know no one is being teased and all the kids figure out how to pronounce their friends' names quickly and without much of an issue. If six year olds can easily manage it then adults need to get over themselves.
I'd even go so far to say that 1/3 of the kids in our kids classes have made-up names... not "western" or from another language than English, but just creative in spelling or use. So many outdoor themed ones that aren't hard to pronounce, but sort of hippie/outdoorsy - Cam (parents are big climbers - not short for Cameron), Gauge and Gunner (twins from a hunting family), Ember. Or they are hard to pronounce b/c they are spelled differently than I would assume - like Emersyne (pronounced Emmerson, not Emmer-sine like I would assume with the "e" on the end) or Brynnlaia (pronounced Brynn-leia, but she goes by Brynn as a nickname). These are real names of kids in my children's classes or whom I have met. And I just met an adult Sarah who pronounces her name Say-ra (softer first sylable than a typical Sarah).
On the other hand, I will say I don't understand people who give their kid's a 'common' name but with an extra special spelling for no apparent reason. "My name is pronounced Katie only it's spelled Kayitie". Or the people who purposely name their kid Jacob Allen Smith, and then only call him Allen instead of Jacob. Why not use the name you plan to call him as their first name? The only time I understand this is when they are a second or third with that family name, but otherwise I don't get it.
Seriously??
You don't have to get it. It's bullshit to judge other people's names which is pretty much the point of this whole thread. Call people what they want to be called and keep your petty judgments to yourself.
Post by pinkdutchtulips on Oct 18, 2018 15:00:01 GMT -5
My mom sideyed the hell out her brother when his daughters were born and given SUPER American names in spite of the fact that they're half Thai. Not a bit of their Thai ancestry is found in either of their names. Drives my mom nuts.
As a first-generation American who grew up speaking a language that enjoys putting an unlimited amount of consonants next to each other, I grew up feeling relieved that my parents named me Marie and not, say, Shqiptare (the name of one of my SIL's students with the same background). I really did grow up wondering why other parents from this community would name their kids impossible-to-pronounce names, and I think a lot of that was a way to assert that I was just as American as the kids who traced their ancestors to the Mayflower. Then I grew up and got tired of that shit.
It really isn't that hard to just ask how a person pronounces their name. Yes, some non-English consonant sounds are next-to-impossible for a native English speaker to say correctly, but essentially then you're just saying their name with an accent. Not a big deal if you don't mind non-Americans pronouncing your name with their accent. Much better than insisting they accommodate you and your lack of pronunciation skills.
Also, raangoli , I was going to bring up Siobhan as an example too. I have never heard any wonder aloud why someone would name their daughter that; they usually say, "Oh, how pretty!!!!" But, you know, ethnic Irish people aren't *that* foreign to America, not like Indians or Koreans. /sarcasm
It seems like every language has some names or spellings that are harder or easier for English-speakers to pronounce. I attended high school with an Irish-American Siobham and wondered why the parents didn't spell it "Shavaughn" or "Shevaun".
I have one of those German last names that no one can spell or pronounce. I hated it as a kid. I got over it and now just repeat it for people until they remember the correct pronunciation. It makes me unique, I guess!
The part of the response about how foreign names can be problematic English words is ridiculous. Sure, there may be one or two Indian names that sound like problematic English words (though I've never heard any), but if the LW's wife was set one one of those names he surely would have mentioned it. There are a huge variety of Indian names of all different lengths, complexities, and sounds, and it sounds like he's categorically opposed to all of them.
Also, the days of most kids having one of the same 20 or so names are long gone. The kids at my kids' daycare have a huge variety of names, regardless of race or ethnicity. Katie is no more "normal" of a name to them than Sabrey or Evangeline or Ming-Yen or J'Loyalty.
Post by Miss Phryne Fisher on Oct 18, 2018 16:21:06 GMT -5
Let me guess: Those awesome Indian names that mean something (like several of my students have) are just awful, but the stereotypical Mormon names (Bryleagh, Sayler, Nayvie, Laekynn) are all just fine, right?
Also making sure the first initial and last name when combined don't make an awful word. Which is something I've seen now twice, and it makes things pretty awkward for them when email addresses are assigned.
My dad had a problem with this at his job because of the way they combined names, despite having a completely "Western" name. His company does the first 5 of your last name, followed by first initial and middle initial. My dad's email address that was assigned was "harribj@company.com." No joke.
Omg, this is almost exactly my husband's (except he has a different first initial). I never thought of that but will definitely avoid giving any future kid the initials "BJ"
I've literally never met anyone else with the same first name, though I know they exist. I was also never teased for my first name*. Not once. People have trouble pronouncing it, but they TRY. Actually, more people get it right on the first time now than they ever did while I was growing up. My 8th grade English teacher mispronounced it the whole school year, I gave up correcting her after awhile, but none of my classmates had issues. Name your kids what you want, dude. DD2 is named Aurelia. If my dad can learn to pronounce that, anyone can learn anything if they fucking try.
*I got teased for my last name because it ended in "-mud". Kids aren't very creative.
My high school had a large population of Asian American students - mostly East and Southeast Asian but some South Asian, too. My mom was a teacher and used to practice saying kids’ names before the first day.
As a first-generation American who grew up speaking a language that enjoys putting an unlimited amount of consonants next to each other, I grew up feeling relieved that my parents named me Marie and not, say, Shqiptare (the name of one of my SIL's students with the same background). I really did grow up wondering why other parents from this community would name their kids impossible-to-pronounce names, and I think a lot of that was a way to assert that I was just as American as the kids who traced their ancestors to the Mayflower. Then I grew up and got tired of that shit.
It really isn't that hard to just ask how a person pronounces their name. Yes, some non-English consonant sounds are next-to-impossible for a native English speaker to say correctly, but essentially then you're just saying their name with an accent. Not a big deal if you don't mind non-Americans pronouncing your name with their accent. Much better than insisting they accommodate you and your lack of pronunciation skills.
Also, raangoli , I was going to bring up Siobhan as an example too. I have never heard any wonder aloud why someone would name their daughter that; they usually say, "Oh, how pretty!!!!" But, you know, ethnic Irish people aren't *that* foreign to America, not like Indians or Koreans. /sarcasm
It seems like every language has some names or spellings that are harder or easier for English-speakers to pronounce. I attended high school with an Irish-American Siobham and wondered why the parents didn't spell it "Shavaughn" or "Shevaun".
I have one of those German last names that no one can spell or pronounce. I hated it as a kid. I got over it and now just repeat it for people until they remember the correct pronunciation. It makes me unique, I guess!
My cousin is a Siobhan and considered changing the spelling to Chevon when she was ~16 or so. I have also met a Chevonne.
Also making sure the first initial and last name when combined don't make an awful word. Which is something I've seen now twice, and it makes things pretty awkward for them when email addresses are assigned.
My dad had a problem with this at his job because of the way they combined names, despite having a completely "Western" name. His company does the first 5 of your last name, followed by first initial and middle initial. My dad's email address that was assigned was "harribj@company.com." No joke.
Recently a friend’s kid’s teacher/school staff/something or other shared her email. First name something S, last name Hart. Standard email address is first initial last name @district.org... so her email is shart. Yikes.
I really had no respect for the teacher who didn't pronounce my name correctly, and it showed in my attentiveness in class. I was 13, but I could 100% see how it would be damaging for a smaller child to have to hear a mispronounced name.
I read this the other day and the Sandeep thing kinda stood out. I found that name pronunciation varied widely when I lived in India and the same name was pronounced differently in Maharashtra and Karnataka. I've heard so many Indian pronunciations of the name Tejas that I don't even attempt to say it anymore, I just ask because I know that I will probably use the wrong one. My coworkers in Mumbai pronounced it as Teevass and my friend in Bangalore pronounces it like Tayjass.
As a first-generation American who grew up speaking a language that enjoys putting an unlimited amount of consonants next to each other, I grew up feeling relieved that my parents named me Marie and not, say, Shqiptare (the name of one of my SIL's students with the same background). I really did grow up wondering why other parents from this community would name their kids impossible-to-pronounce names, and I think a lot of that was a way to assert that I was just as American as the kids who traced their ancestors to the Mayflower. Then I grew up and got tired of that shit.
It really isn't that hard to just ask how a person pronounces their name. Yes, some non-English consonant sounds are next-to-impossible for a native English speaker to say correctly, but essentially then you're just saying their name with an accent. Not a big deal if you don't mind non-Americans pronouncing your name with their accent. Much better than insisting they accommodate you and your lack of pronunciation skills.
Also, raangoli , I was going to bring up Siobhan as an example too. I have never heard any wonder aloud why someone would name their daughter that; they usually say, "Oh, how pretty!!!!" But, you know, ethnic Irish people aren't *that* foreign to America, not like Indians or Koreans. /sarcasm
It seems like every language has some names or spellings that are harder or easier for English-speakers to pronounce. I attended high school with an Irish-American Siobham and wondered why the parents didn't spell it "Shavaughn" or "Shevaun".
I have one of those German last names that no one can spell or pronounce. I hated it as a kid. I got over it and now just repeat it for people until they remember the correct pronunciation. It makes me unique, I guess!
I knew a Cheyvan in high school and didn’t know until recently that was an Americanized spelling.
I switched to a nickname in high school because I was sick of people mispronouncing my name. It hit the top ten baby names in 2000 and I haven’t had an issue since - lol.
I read this the other day and the Sandeep thing kinda stood out. I found that name pronunciation varied widely when I lived in India and the same name was pronounced differently in Maharashtra and Karnataka. I've heard so many Indian pronunciations of the name Tejas that I don't even attempt to say it anymore, I just ask because I know that I will probably use the wrong one. My coworkers in Mumbai pronounced it as Teevass and my friend in Bangalore pronounces it like Tayjass.
That was an interesting article, and it reminded me that I wanted to ask my coworker if I’m say g her name right. Did you guys watch Sharp Objects? The little sister was Emma, but near the end we see her name on medical records and it’s Amma, like my coworker. I’d started paying attention and all the other characters with their southern accents of varying authenticity pronounced it every way from Eeh-ma to Ah-ma to ae-ma (imagine those letters smooshed together; what that sound called?). She hasn’t been here very long and I don’t get to interact much, but she sits near me and I thought it was be a good conversation starter, or weird. After reading the article I don’t think it would be weird.
I've run into the issue that people think my name is whitewashed, but it's actually a very common name (at least my first name) in my parents' area of India due to the larger than typical Christian population there. One of my past supervisors once asked me "But what's your *real* name? You know, your Indian name? And why isn't your last name Patel or Singh?"
I read this the other day and the Sandeep thing kinda stood out. I found that name pronunciation varied widely when I lived in India and the same name was pronounced differently in Maharashtra and Karnataka. I've heard so many Indian pronunciations of the name Tejas that I don't even attempt to say it anymore, I just ask because I know that I will probably use the wrong one. My coworkers in Mumbai pronounced it as Teevass and my friend in Bangalore pronounces it like Tayjass.
My computer ate my reply but I guess that's good because it forced me to go read this article. I have a name that has the exact same issue as the name Savita. I like my name, but the people who can actually pronounce it are becoming fewer in my life. I don't like having 5 minute lessons and discussions about how to pronounce my name so I just tell people the "wrong" pronunciation and move on with my day. My brother assigned himself the nickname "Mo" in college which surprised us because his name is not hard to pronounce once you tell someone. But I guess he got tired of it. Now he works in the tech industry and has kept Mo because apparently even the Indian people he meets are also unfamiliar with his name and accidentally call him a similar looking Indian name with a totally different meaning. Coincidentally, my Indian MIL's name is Rita.
My brother and I like our names and it's fine our immigrant parents chose them for us when we were born here. But I gave my children names that are not of Indian origin. So they have names like their grandma Rita (their names also start with R though that was a coincidence). Many of their grandparents' friends have never even heard of DS's name but his name is in the top 200 of the Social Security chart. DD barely eeks into the top 900. "Mo" and I will never make that list.
But Abby can keep her opinions to herself. I went through 33+ years of what little Savita is going to experience before I chose my children's names. I didn't do it to make it easy for everyone else. I did it so they don't have to go through the internal conflicts that Uncle "Mo" and I did.
I've run into the issue that people think my name is whitewashed, but it's actually a very common name (at least my first name) in my parents' area of India due to the larger than typical Christian population there. One of my past supervisors once asked me "But what's your *real* name? You know, your Indian name? And why isn't your last name Patel or Singh?"
I’ve had people ask me this too. What’s your real name?
Also, my first name is not that different or difficult but apparently people can’t pronounce it. I once had a sub teacher say they would prefer to use my middle name (it’s more westernized) than my first name. I was like but that’s not my name.
Thanks to opinions like Abby, I have hated my name my whole life because it wasn’t common, everyone misspelled it, and everyone was named Jennifer/Jessica/Melissa/Laura at the time. Now, I love and embrace it. I remember asking my mom when I was young to change it because I was so frustrated with it.
They only thing I care about is trying to avoid having initials spell out something awful like A.S.S. or F.A.T.
As someone with a "foreign" first name and last name Abby can fuck right off with this nonsense. I constantly tell students that if I say their name wrong to correct me every time. I try really hard with names and spelling, and I never call a kid by a nickname unless they tell me to.
Beto O'Rourke made a funny at today's town hall that Cruz didn't show up for that his son's name is Ulysses Frances O'Rourke and he will forever be U.F.O. I giggled just a little.
It took me something like 30 years to learn to like my name. Normal name, weird spelling. Thanks, mom. (But then, it did help me develop a really bad, offbeat sense of humor. "Yeah, my mom's handwriting was so bad the doctor couldn't read it." "She was still recovering from the labor." "She was not happy that I was three weeks late and I've paid for it every day since." "She was drunk when she was filling out the paperwork."