@@ Dear Abby Suggests Whitewashing Names to Assimilate

[raangoli]

In September, Dear Abby printed a letter from a man who wanted to know how he could suggest to his Indian wife (according to the letter she was born and raised in India) that they should give their future child(ren) "western" names. The letter was resurfaced by Dr. Simran Jeet Singh, a writer, educator, and activist who works to promote the understanding of Sikhism in America on Twitter and naturally, people went in on Abby.

Abby's response was pretty appalling: "Not only can foreign names be difficult to pronounce and spell, but they can also cause a child to be teased unmercifully,” she warned. “Sometimes the name can be a problematic word in the English language. And one that sounds beautiful in a foreign language can be grating in English. I hope your wife will rethink this. Why saddle a kid with a name he or she will have to explain or correct with friends, teachers, and fellow employees from childhood into adulthood?”

Full article here: www.vogue.com/article/dear-abby-foreign-names-for-children-twitter-reactions-whitewashing

It reminded me a lot of the conversations that have happened here and the previous board about names. Being first generation Indian-American and having one of those "foreign" names myself, this hit home. We gave our DD an Indian first name and a "western" middle to recognize her heritage from both my (white) husband and myself. We've seen that even though she is only 2.5, her name is often mispronounced or mistaken for another. I had a conversation with her last week at the dinner table about how she should correct people when they say her name wrong. Spoiler alert: her name isn't hard to pronounce.

I wish people would make more of an effort to learn "new" or "different" names. And also, Abby can take a hike.

[mbcdefg]

Abby's an asshole. 

Is she also going to encourage Jane and Bobby to change their names if they move somewhere where their names might not be commonplace, or where they might be "grating"? (Seriously, WTF constitutes "grating"?)

Jerk.

[katie80]

Wtf, Abby. No.

And you can guess from my username what my real name is. It's about as basic as it gets. People still screw it up all the time.

[Gato]

We really need to teach our children NOT to be conformist assholes. Instead, Abby wants us to conform to the assholes. Not cool, Abby.

[CallingAllAngels]

I heard a great story in response to this. Apparently Uzo Aduba wanted to be called by Zoe when she was younger because no one could pronounce her name, but her mother told her, "If they can learn to say Tchaikovsky and Michelangelo and Dostoyevsky, they can learn to say Uzoamaka." Amen, Uzoamaka's mom.

[raangoli]

Oct 18, 2018 8:52:26 GMT -5 lovelyshoes said:

I don’t see anyone trying to dissuade people from using traditional Italian or Irish names that aren’t easy to pronounce. 

This is the thing that (always) gets me. I've learned that Siobhan isn't pronounced the way it is spelled, so people can learn how to pronounce Saraswati (which is pronounced the way it is spelled).

[mskitkat]

A) BB’s name is beautiful and seriously not that hard. People who get it wrong suck.

B) My sister’s gf is Asian American, and her parents gave her a white name to “fit in.” Since they didn’t have the cultural understanding of white names, it backfired horribly. This is just bad advice all around.

[simpsongal]

JFC. I'm imaging conversations earlier this century "Barack Obama.....won't play well in the heartland....how about Jimmy Bamma?"

[bex]

That is an appalling response from Abby. I don't even like her use of the phrase "foreign names."

Basic white people can adjust to non-Western names. And we/they should. If you aren't sure how to pronounce a name, ask respectfully. I just....I don't really feel like I have all that much more to say because I'm really just appalled by her response.

[bex]

I will add that it also makes me sad because H's grandmother came here from Saipan in the 40s, and she changed her name to Elizabeth to assimilate, and now no one remembers what her real name was. I'm sure Abby would have approved of her decision to change her name, but it makes me sad that we don't know what name she was born with (she has since passed and I don't think H ever asked.)

[captainobvious]

Other white people can't even pronounce my super white, extra common in the 80s, name right half the time. Like WTF is this shit?

[mbcdefg]

And how many of these "assimilate!" jerkoffs are all, "Bootstraps bootstraps bootstraps! Special snowflakes! No accommodations!" yet they're too damn lazy to take 20 seconds to learn someone's name?

[MDmomof2]

Abby's response is terrible! I teach my kids to call people what they ask to be called. If someone has a name that seems difficult, you figure it out because that's what they'd like to be called. Similarly, if someone would like to be called a nickname, you call them that because that's their preference. Or, if they don't want to use a nickname for their long name, you don't use it. Basically, just respect their wishes! This principle has worked with non-traditional names my children have difficulty pronouncing as well as a transgender child in my son's class.

Similarly, I have a nickname for my DD that she's fine with me using at home but NOT in front of her friends. I model the behavior I want them to use, even though I sometimes catch myself JUST ABOUT using that nickname, I remember her preference and don't. It doesn't mean we won't screw up sometimes, but we genuinely try.

[lissaholly]

I hate the “ think of the children” reaction to diversity. It was used to discourage interracial marriage, it was used to discourage same sex couple adoption and it’s always been bullshit. Everyone grows up with the “ alternate” name- the one more exotic, or simple, depending on your names personal style of burden. I love Uzo’s mom’s reaction! It goes beyond academia, too. Look at the ease in which the average joe roots for his sport’s team players.

[VillainV]

This is horrible advice.

A) Giving kids a "western" name is zero insurance against getting teased. I distinctly remember a boy in my class being teased with "Jacob wears makeup", which is ridiculous because Jacob doesn't rhyme with makeup, NOBODY was wearing makeup because it was like 1st grade, and so what if he did want to wear makeup? Jacob is about as white a name as it gets. My super-uncommon but also very Anglo name was also the butt of many jokes.

B) As we has a culture should have realized by now, taking away peoples names is taking away their identity. Think about all of the slaves whose names were changed, who were forced to take on the surnames of their masters. Think of all of the immigrants who were forced to anglicize their names at Ellis Island, who were told to leave their old cultures behind in order to "fit in." And I completely agree -- it's not that hard to figure out how to say a name correctly, if we actually try. Refusing to try is as disrespectful
as it gets.

[lurkydoodle]

Oct 18, 2018 8:52:26 GMT -5 lovelyshoes said:

As someone with a foreign name who was told a million times to change it to make it sound American, Abby can go take a long walk.
My name is very easy, but people consistently mispronounce it and an idiot I work with for 8 years still does even though I always correct him. It takes an extra second to glance over a name you can’t pronounce and at least give it a try. It’s the right thing to do and it’s respectful. I always at least try!

Re the actual op, we have a lot of Indian kids in our school and I have always admired that they all have traditional Indian names. Yes some are harder to pronounce than others and sometimes I don’t know if it’s a boy or a girl name, but it’s not impossible and we all learn. I love that their parents give no fs and use traditional names. I don’t see anyone trying to dissuade people from using traditional Italian or Irish names that aren’t easy to pronounce. I’m glad Abby got called out worth her white bread and pbj narrative.

I often have to cold-call people for work based only on their resumes. Sometimes I don't know if the name is more commonly male or female.  Know what I do? LinkedIn search that shit.  Even if I don't find MY candidate, or I do but the candidate doesn't have a picture, I might find ten other candidates with the same name.  Usually they're all men or all women and then boom, I have my answer.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 18, 2018 9:39:37 GMT -5 lurkydoodle said:

Oct 18, 2018 8:52:26 GMT -5 lovelyshoes said:

As someone with a foreign name who was told a million times to change it to make it sound American, Abby can go take a long walk.
My name is very easy, but people consistently mispronounce it and an idiot I work with for 8 years still does even though I always correct him. It takes an extra second to glance over a name you can’t pronounce and at least give it a try. It’s the right thing to do and it’s respectful. I always at least try!

Re the actual op, we have a lot of Indian kids in our school and I have always admired that they all have traditional Indian names. Yes some are harder to pronounce than others and sometimes I don’t know if it’s a boy or a girl name, but it’s not impossible and we all learn. I love that their parents give no fs and use traditional names. I don’t see anyone trying to dissuade people from using traditional Italian or Irish names that aren’t easy to pronounce. I’m glad Abby got called out worth her white bread and pbj narrative.

I often have to cold-call people for work based only on their resumes. Sometimes I don't know if the name is more commonly male or female.  Know what I do? LinkedIn search that shit.  Even if I don't find MY candidate, or I do but the candidate doesn't have a picture, I might find ten other candidates with the same name.  Usually they're all men or all women and then boom, I have my answer.

Gender identifiers are slowly being phased out, anyway. So while uncommon, it's not out of place to use gender neutral pronouns.

Abby is off her rocker.

[mouse]

Oct 18, 2018 9:06:57 GMT -5 bex said:

That is an appalling response from Abby. I don't even like her use of the phrase "foreign names."

Basic white people can adjust to non-Western names. And we/they should. If you aren't sure how to pronounce a name, ask respectfully. I just....I don't really feel like I have all that much more to say because I'm really just appalled by her response.

Anyone in the US whose name isn't in a NA language has a "foreign name."

[ufcasey]

My name is Holly and people still accidentally call me Polly all the time for whatever reason. Growing up my last name had a very bare similarity to a kid's toy, Gak, and people called me Holly/Polly Gak much to my horror. So while I understand not wanting to purposely set your kid up for mockery or name difficulties, picking a 'common' name is no insurance against that because kids are stupid and they will pick on anything and everything.

On the other hand, I will say I don't understand people who give their kid's a 'common' name but with an extra special spelling for no apparent reason. "My name is pronounced Katie only it's spelled Kayitie". Or the people who purposely name their kid Jacob Allen Smith, and then only call him Allen instead of Jacob. Why not use the name you plan to call him as their first name? The only time I understand this is when they are a second or third with that family name, but otherwise I don't get it.

[HRH Queen Dick I, Orphan]

Fuck off Abby, you fascist. This is a dog whistle for the You're Too Sensitive Brigade. For the rest of my life, somebody says that or similar about anything I know they voted for Trump.

[PatBenatar]

WTF.

My daughter has many classmates with non-western names and non-common names. None of them are teased. Plus People are going to get names wrong whether they are common place or not so that shouldn't deter someone from naming their child what they want.

[picksthemusic]

This is a pet peeve of mine. I work with a very diverse population of people, and I make damned sure I'm calling people what they want to be called. I ask all the time if I pronounced their name correctly, and if not, I thank them for correcting me.

That being said, when we named our children, it was very important to me to make sure their names reflect their Mexican heritage, as well as their American culture.

Abby needs to stop giving advice.

[greeneggs]

I'd say a good 50-60% of the kids in my son's 1st grade class have non-western names and as far as I know no one is being teased and all the kids figure out how to pronounce their friends' names quickly and without much of an issue. If six year olds can easily manage it then adults need to get over themselves.

[msmerymac]

Her response was absolutely horrific. I have a client who was looking at the name of a new prospect and laughed, "Oh, I'll never be able to pronounce that correctly!" and I just sat in silence instead of joining in on her laughter. You can effing try.

For what it's worth, every couple I know who is white/Indian have given their kids Indian first names, regardless of whether the wife or the husband is the one who is Indian.

[bugandbibs]

They only thing I care about is trying to avoid having initials spell out something awful like A.S.S. or F.A.T.

As someone with a "foreign" first name and last name Abby can fuck right off with this nonsense. I constantly tell students that if I say their name wrong to correct me every time. I try really hard with names and spelling, and I never call a kid by a nickname unless they tell me to.

[redheadbaker]

Oct 18, 2018 10:41:42 GMT -5 greeneggs said:

I'd say a good 50-60% of the kids in my son's 1st grade class have non-western names and as far as I know no one is being teased and all the kids figure out how to pronounce their friends' names quickly and without much of an issue. If six year olds can easily manage it then adults need to get over themselves.

Same. My son's school catchment includes a neighborhood that is primarily people shop recently immigrated from China, so about half of the kids in his class have non-Western names. DS has no trouble pronouncing them.

[foundmylazybum]

Oct 18, 2018 8:59:01 GMT -5 CallingAllAngels said:

I heard a great story in response to this. Apparently Uzo Aduba wanted to be called by Zoe when she was younger because no one could pronounce her name, but her mother told her, "If they can learn to say Tchaikovsky and Michelangelo and Dostoyevsky, they can learn to say Uzoamaka." Amen, Uzoamaka's mom.

I heard this too and thought it was the best response ever. It really resonated with me.

[cville]

In my life, I've thought and said stupid shit about names. But I saw the error of my ways way younger than 70 fucking 3.

[ESF]

Oct 18, 2018 10:41:42 GMT -5 greeneggs said:

I'd say a good 50-60% of the kids in my son's 1st grade class have non-western names and as far as I know no one is being teased and all the kids figure out how to pronounce their friends' names quickly and without much of an issue. If six year olds can easily manage it then adults need to get over themselves.

Right? A four year old doesn't know that Jaspreet is different from Jessica unless someone tells them that. Kids aren't teasing each other over non-Western names because they think they are weird, but rather, because they learn that from the adults in their lives.

[ESF]

Oct 18, 2018 11:37:46 GMT -5 bugandbibs said:

They only thing I care about is trying to avoid having initials spell out something awful like A.S.S. or F.A.T.

As someone with a "foreign" first name and last name Abby can fuck right off with this nonsense. I constantly tell students that if I say their name wrong to correct me every time. I try really hard with names and spelling, and I never call a kid by a nickname unless they tell me to.

Also making sure the first initial and last name when combined don't make an awful word. Which is something I've seen now twice, and it makes things pretty awkward for them when email addresses are assigned.