1000+ pages chronicling Sandy Hook shooter’s descent

[NewOrleans]

I don’t know what to say.

www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-sandy-hook-lanza-new-documents-20181204-story.html?fbclid=IwAR2fAwQvViBJRJVYcUb1cuKdLHOrpWLV9xRm2-TOZlQDq0o30Cpfoj1qtwE

More than 1,000 pages of documents obtained by the Hartford Courant from the Connecticut State Police, including hundreds of pages of Lanza’s own writings and a spreadsheet detailing the gruesome work of 400 perpetrators of mass violence, bring into sharper focus the dark world view of a 20-year-old...

These documents, which had been kept from the public until now, were part of the mass of writings, records, and computer files seized by detectives from the Lanzas’ home after the murders. The Courant mounted a five-year quest to obtain the unreleased documents, eventually winning an appeal before the state Supreme Court.

[readyin07]

I read it. And I don't know what to say either.

[readyin07]

First and foremost, the sadness I feel for his victims is overwhelming. But this kid. Jesus. He was sick. Very very sick. As a parent I have to admit I wouldn't even begin to know how to approach that level of illness. And I don't like to Monday morning quarterback. But damn. One thing I wouldn't have given him was guns. Jesus.

[vanillacourage]

Has his father ever accepted any responsibility?

[readyin07]

It has never been lost on me that many of the children who were killed were students receiving special education services. I wonder if he knew that and if that was part of the motive in what he did.

[notsopicky]

Jesus Christ. What could have been done for this child? It seems like none of the interventions worked for him, rather they furthered his eventual downward spiral resulting in the death of 20 little kids, 6 teachers and his mother. Should he have been institutionalized?

And like vanillacourage, I too wonder about the dad's role in this whole thing. From the article, $289,000 annual alimony payment to the mom, huge house in CT--they seemingly had money.

[Velar Fricative]

It seems like a lot isn't known about his state of mind in the last year or two before the massacre, but I think we will never know what possessed his mother to possess all those guns and treat shooting as a hobby with a boy who had shown strong inclinations towards violence with each year. I cannot fathom that thought process. And yes, his father bears responsibility for this too; I know his mother was there with him daily but I'm judging the hell out of the father for presumably knowing all about his son's issues and simply writing a check.

I am totally unfamiliar with the legal requirements needed for involuntary institutionalization but man, if he may not have met those requirements (article doesn't mention if he could have been or not) then that makes me wonder what would be required.

[MrsAxilla]

Dec 9, 2018 21:21:55 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

It seems like a lot isn't known about his state of mind in the last year or two before the massacre, but I think we will never know what possessed his mother to possess all those guns and treat shooting as a hobby with a boy who had shown strong inclinations towards violence with each year. I cannot fathom that thought process. And yes, his father bears responsibility for this too; I know his mother was there with him daily but I'm judging the hell out of the father for presumably knowing all about his son's issues and simply writing a check.

I am totally unfamiliar with the legal requirements needed for involuntary institutionalization but man, if he may not have met those requirements (article doesn't mention if he could have been or not) then that makes me wonder what would be required.

We’re close with a family who needed intensive services for their son, and they shared stories of other parents they met, so this is all third hand.  But sometime there just isn’t a place that can accept kids like him.  They don’t have the staff or there’s a waitlist or it’s across the country and $10K a month.  Our friends were forced to call the cops on their own son several times because unless he was demonstrably “an immediate danger to himself or others” he just didn’t qualify for help.  

Adam was clearly very sick and his parents were grossly negligent, but even if they weren’t, meaningful help isn’t really available.

[glinda]

The New Yorker posted an article a few years ago that focused a lot on the dad:

www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/03/17/the-reckoning

[katieinthecity]

Dec 9, 2018 20:39:23 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

Jesus Christ. What could have been done for this child?

I don't know what they could have done for HIM, but what they could have done for the 26 dead kids and teachers is kept the damn guns FAR FAR FAR away from him. This is why I get so irate about "gun control doesn't work". IT DOES. Fewer guns means fewer people like this have access to them. Bottom line. The massacre was not a foregone conclusion. 

[kath16]

I also know a family whose son (10 or 11) DOES qualify for intensive mental health services but his parents are putting their head in the sand about it.

with the disclaimer that this is third hand, his school administrators have been informed that he has been clinically diagnosed as a sociopath to the extreme that he demonstrates the mental health status similar to serial killers.

I am mentioning this because it seems that this person was misdiagnosed over and over. But it's also possible that it got to the point where no one was getting through to him/his parents and they just assumed it would work itself out.

it's all... awful.

[ssmjlm]

I'll echo others in that is is very difficult once a child becomes an adult to get them declared "incompetent" so parents can remain their guardians.

Whether it's not being diagnosed or the lack of records that would make them dangerous, it's a hard process. And as others said above, you have to have somewhere that can take them and the $$.

My sister was bi-polar, but that has really morphed into being a sociopath thanks to a lot of drugs and literally frying her brain. My parents met with 2 different attorneys who basically said they would probably go broke trying to re-gain guardianship because in the court's opinion drugs aren't self harm and while she has sociopathic tendencies, she's never tried to harm anyone else (on record).

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 10, 2018 0:54:26 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Dec 9, 2018 21:21:55 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

It seems like a lot isn't known about his state of mind in the last year or two before the massacre, but I think we will never know what possessed his mother to possess all those guns and treat shooting as a hobby with a boy who had shown strong inclinations towards violence with each year. I cannot fathom that thought process. And yes, his father bears responsibility for this too; I know his mother was there with him daily but I'm judging the hell out of the father for presumably knowing all about his son's issues and simply writing a check.

I am totally unfamiliar with the legal requirements needed for involuntary institutionalization but man, if he may not have met those requirements (article doesn't mention if he could have been or not) then that makes me wonder what would be required.

Adam was clearly very sick and his parents were grossly negligent, but even if they weren’t, meaningful help isn’t really available.

Great (sad) point as well. Thanks for providing that perspective.

[penguingrrl]

Dec 10, 2018 0:54:26 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Dec 9, 2018 21:21:55 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

It seems like a lot isn't known about his state of mind in the last year or two before the massacre, but I think we will never know what possessed his mother to possess all those guns and treat shooting as a hobby with a boy who had shown strong inclinations towards violence with each year. I cannot fathom that thought process. And yes, his father bears responsibility for this too; I know his mother was there with him daily but I'm judging the hell out of the father for presumably knowing all about his son's issues and simply writing a check.

I am totally unfamiliar with the legal requirements needed for involuntary institutionalization but man, if he may not have met those requirements (article doesn't mention if he could have been or not) then that makes me wonder what would be required.

We’re close with a family who needed intensive services for their son, and they shared stories of other parents they met, so this is all third hand.  But sometime there just isn’t a place that can accept kids like him.  They don’t have the staff or there’s a waitlist or it’s across the country and $10K a month.  Our friends were forced to call the cops on their own son several times because unless he was demonstrably “an immediate danger to himself or others” he just didn’t qualify for help.  

Adam was clearly very sick and his parents were grossly negligent, but even if they weren’t, meaningful help isn’t really available.

Help is so so difficult to access. My mother was oddly fortunate that when my brother needed intensive inpatient treatment they were uninsured. Medicaid was required to help him in a way that private insurance can and does wiggle out of. But she had to quit her job (as a single mother, she turned freelancer to control her own schedule) and devote much of her time to advocating to get him into the system and into a useful facility. There was no guidance and it was incredibly difficult to access, and watching the system made her so angry.

I don’t blame his parents for being overwhelmed by the system and not getting him the help because of how incredibly difficult it is. I do blame them for adding guns to an incredibly volatile situation.

[nicbreeful]

Dec 10, 2018 8:14:40 GMT -5 kath16 said:

I also know a family whose son (10 or 11) DOES qualify for intensive mental health services but his parents are putting their head in the sand about it.

with the disclaimer that this is third hand, his school administrators have been informed that he has been clinically diagnosed as a sociopath to the extreme that he demonstrates the mental health status similar to serial killers.

I am mentioning this because it seems that this person was misdiagnosed over and over. But it's also possible that it got to the point where no one was getting through to him/his parents and they just assumed it would work itself out.

it's all... awful.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I would take what you heard with a grain of salt. Most doctors don't diagnose using the term "sociopath" anymore. Instead they use Antisocial Personality Disorder. And no one under 18 years of age can be diagnosed as having APD.

[MrsAxilla]

Dec 10, 2018 11:49:23 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Dec 10, 2018 8:14:40 GMT -5 kath16 said:

I also know a family whose son (10 or 11) DOES qualify for intensive mental health services but his parents are putting their head in the sand about it.

with the disclaimer that this is third hand, his school administrators have been informed that he has been clinically diagnosed as a sociopath to the extreme that he demonstrates the mental health status similar to serial killers.

I am mentioning this because it seems that this person was misdiagnosed over and over. But it's also possible that it got to the point where no one was getting through to him/his parents and they just assumed it would work itself out.

it's all... awful.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I would take what you heard with a grain of salt. Most doctors don't diagnose using the term "sociopath" anymore. Instead they use Antisocial Personality Disorder. And no one under 18 years of age can be diagnosed as having APD.

Right.  My friend’s son was diagnosed with “well we don’t diagnose children with APD so we’re not going to do that, but otherwise he meets the criteria of a sociopath....”. Obviously I wasn’t in the room, so I can’t say whether the word sociopath was actually used by a doctor or if my friends were paraphrasing, but they certainly understood what the non-diagnosis meant.  Which also made it difficult to find appropriate services.

[nicbreeful]

Dec 10, 2018 12:04:17 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Dec 10, 2018 11:49:23 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

I'm not saying you're wrong but I would take what you heard with a grain of salt. Most doctors don't diagnose using the term "sociopath" anymore. Instead they use Antisocial Personality Disorder. And no one under 18 years of age can be diagnosed as having APD.

Right.  My friend’s son was diagnosed with “well we don’t diagnose children with APD so we’re not going to do that, but otherwise he meets the criteria of a sociopath....”. Obviously I wasn’t in the room, so I can’t say whether the word sociopath was actually used by a doctor or if my friends were paraphrasing, but they certainly understood what the non-diagnosis meant.  Which also made it difficult to find appropriate services.

This is very true and so sad. Especially because by the time the person turns 18, you can't get them help if they don't want it.

[kath16]

Dec 10, 2018 11:49:23 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Dec 10, 2018 8:14:40 GMT -5 kath16 said:

I also know a family whose son (10 or 11) DOES qualify for intensive mental health services but his parents are putting their head in the sand about it.

with the disclaimer that this is third hand, his school administrators have been informed that he has been clinically diagnosed as a sociopath to the extreme that he demonstrates the mental health status similar to serial killers.

I am mentioning this because it seems that this person was misdiagnosed over and over. But it's also possible that it got to the point where no one was getting through to him/his parents and they just assumed it would work itself out.

it's all... awful.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I would take what you heard with a grain of salt. Most doctors don't diagnose using the term "sociopath" anymore. Instead they use Antisocial Personality Disorder. And no one under 18 years of age can be diagnosed as having APD.

i fully admit that i am not well educated in this area, so i am certain you're right. whatever the diagnosis/non-diagnosis was was communicated to his school district as either sociopathic behavior or similar enough that they changed a lot about how they handle things both with the specific child and with their general security protocols.

i truly didn't intend to mis-speak on this.

[nicbreeful]

Dec 10, 2018 12:33:40 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Dec 10, 2018 11:49:23 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

I'm not saying you're wrong but I would take what you heard with a grain of salt. Most doctors don't diagnose using the term "sociopath" anymore. Instead they use Antisocial Personality Disorder. And no one under 18 years of age can be diagnosed as having APD.

i fully admit that i am not well educated in this area, so i am certain you're right. whatever the diagnosis/non-diagnosis was was communicated to his school district as either sociopathic behavior or similar enough that they changed a lot about how they handle things both with the specific child and with their general security protocols.

i truly didn't intend to mis-speak on this.

No, you're fine. I still use the term sociopath a lot of time.

I'm sure it's a lot like MrsA said.. A non-diagnosis diagnosis.

[tiramisu]

Dec 10, 2018 12:42:44 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Dec 10, 2018 12:33:40 GMT -5 kath16 said:

i fully admit that i am not well educated in this area, so i am certain you're right. whatever the diagnosis/non-diagnosis was was communicated to his school district as either sociopathic behavior or similar enough that they changed a lot about how they handle things both with the specific child and with their general security protocols.

i truly didn't intend to mis-speak on this.

No, you're fine. I still use the term sociopath a lot of time.

I'm sure it's a lot like MrsA said.. A non-diagnosis diagnosis.

I mean, I'm sure it is, but a lack of diagnostic specificity really bothers me. At that age, conduct disorder would be the appropriate diagnosis so that they could qualify for an APD diagnosis later. There are a lot of people who don't update their diagnostic language, so it does hang around.

Yes, sadly, there's a not a lot of therapeutic resources and it's hard to get people the help they need. Also to try to get them to engage in treatment. I could go on about frustrations, but overall I'll just say it's really fucking sad how hard it is to get the help people need.

[mountaingirl]

Wow. Just read the whole article. It’s awful that no one pushed to get him more help. What a mentally sick person he was and everyone failed him. Awful.

[NewOrleans]

@

I have seen some parents of children with autism furious about this article, saying that it is irresponsible journalism to have included his ASD diagnosis which they say is irrelevant. They are thinking of stigma/associating ASD with violence or personality disorders.

For my part, I thought it was included to show the complexities of his inter-related conditions. I also thought this article humanized him rather than skewered or blamed him. When I read it, I found it in me to feel sorry for him, too. I don’t know if the article was possible without including his diagnoses. Is it also insensitive to write about his OCD?

However, I do not have a child with autism, so my thoughts on including details about his diagnosis don’t have the experienced perspective that those parents have.

[pinkballoons]

Dec 16, 2018 11:04:07 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

@

I have seen some parents of children with autism furious about this article, saying that it is irresponsible journalism to have included his ASD diagnosis which they say is irrelevant. They are thinking of stigma/associating ASD with violence or personality disorders.

For my part, I thought it was included to show the complexities of his inter-related conditions. I also thought this article humanized him rather than skewered or blamed him. When I read it, I found it in me to feel sorry for him, too. I don’t know if the article was possible without including his diagnoses. Is it also insensitive to write about his OCD?

However, I do not have a child with autism, so my thoughts on including details about his diagnosis don’t have the experienced perspective that those parents have.

I think it's really important to read the story about the documents in conjunction with the New Yorker article interviewing the father. His parents seemed to focus on the Asperger's diagnosis in trying to get him help, which is likely why it featured so heavily in the reports. From the New Yorker article:

"Peter gets annoyed when people speculate that Asperger's was the cause of Adam's rampage. 'Asperger's makes people unusual, but it doesn't make people like this,' he said, and expressed the view that the condition 'veiled a contaminant' that was not Asperger's."

I found the New Yorker article enlightening and heartbreaking. It gives some context for why he had access to the firearms, and how much (or little) access his father had to him as he grew older.

[NewOrleans]

Dec 16, 2018 11:49:20 GMT -5 pinkballoons said:

Dec 16, 2018 11:04:07 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

@

I have seen some parents of children with autism furious about this article, saying that it is irresponsible journalism to have included his ASD diagnosis which they say is irrelevant. They are thinking of stigma/associating ASD with violence or personality disorders.

For my part, I thought it was included to show the complexities of his inter-related conditions. I also thought this article humanized him rather than skewered or blamed him. When I read it, I found it in me to feel sorry for him, too. I don’t know if the article was possible without including his diagnoses. Is it also insensitive to write about his OCD?

However, I do not have a child with autism, so my thoughts on including details about his diagnosis don’t have the experienced perspective that those parents have.

I think it's really important to read the story about the documents in conjunction with the New Yorker article interviewing the father. His parents seemed to focus on the Asperger's diagnosis in trying to get him help, which is likely why it featured so heavily in the reports. From the New Yorker article:

"Peter gets annoyed when people speculate that Asperger's was the cause of Adam's rampage. 'Asperger's makes people unusual, but it doesn't make people like this,' he said, and expressed the view that the condition 'veiled a contaminant' that was not Asperger's."

I found the New Yorker article enlightening and heartbreaking. It gives some context for why he had access to the firearms, and how much (or little) access his father had to him as he grew older.

I’d forgotten that article and just re-read it, and see what you mean: “Asperger’s may have distracted them from whatever else was amiss.”  

[foundmylazybum]

Dec 16, 2018 11:04:07 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

@

I have seen some parents of children with autism furious about this article, saying that it is irresponsible journalism to have included his ASD diagnosis which they say is irrelevant. They are thinking of stigma/associating ASD with violence or personality disorders.

For my part, I thought it was included to show the complexities of his inter-related conditions. I also thought this article humanized him rather than skewered or blamed him. When I read it, I found it in me to feel sorry for him, too. I don’t know if the article was possible without including his diagnoses. Is it also insensitive to write about his OCD?

However, I do not have a child with autism, so my thoughts on including details about his diagnosis don’t have the experienced perspective that those parents have.

Except he was diagnosed with ASD, so that's a fact. Journalism ideally shouldn't cherry pick facts, it reports them, which this article did.

It would have been irresponsible journalism to pull out that fact (much to your point, if they pulled out ASD, why not other diagnoses?).

That just seems like an interpretive response to me. That might seem cold, but the facts are Adam had a wide range of comorbid issues as well as complex family dynamics that put into play this devastating tragedy. By ignoring one part, we actually might miss important lessons

[af1212]

Dec 16, 2018 11:49:20 GMT -5 pinkballoons said:

Dec 16, 2018 11:04:07 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

@

I have seen some parents of children with autism furious about this article, saying that it is irresponsible journalism to have included his ASD diagnosis which they say is irrelevant. They are thinking of stigma/associating ASD with violence or personality disorders.

For my part, I thought it was included to show the complexities of his inter-related conditions. I also thought this article humanized him rather than skewered or blamed him. When I read it, I found it in me to feel sorry for him, too. I don’t know if the article was possible without including his diagnoses. Is it also insensitive to write about his OCD?

However, I do not have a child with autism, so my thoughts on including details about his diagnosis don’t have the experienced perspective that those parents have.

I think it's really important to read the story about the documents in conjunction with the New Yorker article interviewing the father. His parents seemed to focus on the Asperger's diagnosis in trying to get him help, which is likely why it featured so heavily in the reports. From the New Yorker article:

"Peter gets annoyed when people speculate that Asperger's was the cause of Adam's rampage. 'Asperger's makes people unusual, but it doesn't make people like this,' he said, and expressed the view that the condition 'veiled a contaminant' that was not Asperger's."

I found the New Yorker article enlightening and heartbreaking. It gives some context for why he had access to the firearms, and how much (or little) access his father had to him as he grew older.

I agree that the articles being read together really gives the fullest picture.

As a parent of a child with OCD and who works in special ed, I was struck by how much help he WAS given, in contrast to some other posters take-aways. He was repeatedly given access to the best of psychologists and psychiatrists, and despite that he was still unable to be helped.

Many families with children who have similar needs do not have nearly as many resources available to them due to their finances, area they live, time due to work schedules, etc.

I can definitely see similarities between my own daughter’s OCD symptoms and his. The New yorker really hit on it when they wrote about making the choices for the day or the years. It seems like as time went on and his differences became more pronounced his mother made more decisions for the day than she did for the years which is the opposite of what needs to happen in treating OCD. It’s something that all parents struggle with but the consequences are much more extreme for a parent of a child with special needs.

Of course all of this is Monday morning quarterbacking - it’s hard to see it when you’re in it I’m sure.

I guess what I really took away from the combo of these two articles is that he seemed like a “normal” kid with special needs who was getting access to appropriate care and therapy for much of his life. The recordings, emails, and therapy notes don’t seem all that different from many that I have read. And yet, something went horribly wrong and now 26 beautiful people are gone.

Again all I have is hindsight but I feel like the things that could have made a difference in this situation would have been gun control and limiting the video games which desensitize us all to violence and death. Would that have changed the outcome? I don’t know.