My H says the Max 8 has this system that runs in the background that overrides pilots’ actions. If the plane thinks you’re tipped too far up, it automatically tips you down (so on ascent, if the system thinks they were pitched too high, it pitched them downward, causing a crash). I am oversimplifying it, but if this is true, why on earth would Boeing have built it so pilots can’t override??
This is my understanding as well. There’s a sensor that senses angle toward the ground that can take corrective actions that essentially put the plane in a nosedive that is very difficult to overcome if the sensor reads incorrectly. Pilots weren’t proactively trained about how the sensor worked and how to overcome it until after the Lion Air crash. In theory pilots flying 737 max should be very familiar now given what happened with that flight—but these two situations look very similar given pilots in this crash reported an issue maintaining speed and to return to the airport shortly after departure.
There are not very many 737 Max’s flying right now (~200) - to lose two that close together in very similar crashes is troubling.
There are multiple types of 737s. The Max 8 is the one that is under the microscope here. We fly Southwest next month, which exclusively flies 737s, but only has 13 Max 8s. Looking up our flights now.
Where did you find the plane info on SW? I pulled up my itineraries but could not find it.
There are multiple types of 737s. The Max 8 is the one that is under the microscope here. We fly Southwest next month, which exclusively flies 737s, but only has 13 Max 8s. Looking up our flights now.
Where did you find the plane info on SW? I pulled up my itineraries but could not find it.
I found mine for JetBlue and Delta on the flight aware website.
There are multiple types of 737s. The Max 8 is the one that is under the microscope here. We fly Southwest next month, which exclusively flies 737s, but only has 13 Max 8s. Looking up our flights now.
Where did you find the plane info on SW? I pulled up my itineraries but could not find it.
I got a news alert from the NY Times this morning that China and Indonesia have grounded all Max 8s and that they had found the flight's data and voice recorders.
There are multiple types of 737s. The Max 8 is the one that is under the microscope here. We fly Southwest next month, which exclusively flies 737s, but only has 13 Max 8s. Looking up our flights now.
Where did you find the plane info on SW? I pulled up my itineraries but could not find it.
There are multiple types of 737s. The Max 8 is the one that is under the microscope here. We fly Southwest next month, which exclusively flies 737s, but only has 13 Max 8s. Looking up our flights now.
Where did you find the plane info on SW? I pulled up my itineraries but could not find it.
You’ll have to go to the main website (not app or mobile site) and plug in the dates/locations you’re flying like you want to book the same flights. Then you can see the info on your flight. We’re flying a Max 8 in May ugh.
As of November, Southwest had a plan to modify the AOA sensors on their MAXs to give the pilots more information in these situations. Not sure how far they've gotten with retrofitting their fleet, but I'd feel better about flying SWA's planes than any others given they immediately took this action.
I'm flying Southwest in about 30 minutes. You'd better believe I checked the plane body yesterday: 737-800. Same with our Southwest flight to Texas in 2 weeks.
Those poor people and their families. That's just awful.
Damn, this does not look good for the 737 Max 8s. Boeing, worldwide airlines: do the right thing and ground them until the problem is either fixed or ruled out! I am glad to see China and others headed that way.
I'm flying United in a week and a half or so, and they don't have any Max 8s, but they do have Max 9s. I'm on 757 and 787s, so it doesn't affect my travels, but do the Max 9s have the same issues?
Post by downtoearth on Mar 11, 2019 12:52:35 GMT -5
This is just so sad - all those people and their families. I know air travel is still safer than cars, but it's just nerve wrecking to think it could be engineering design of a whole line of Boeing jets.
A terrible tragedy and two planes, same model and company, both crashing shortly after take off is a problem. There is something mechanical at play here and Boeing needs to figure it out immediately.
This was a new plane. Delivered to the airline in October or November of last year. Definitely seems like a Boeing issue to me. Those poor people
Ugh. I wasn’t trying to throw other countries/airlines under the bus. I really hope Boeing feels the pressure to figure out what is happening, or if they don’t I really hope other companies will step up to push them aside.
Trust me they do. It is a huge deal when a Boeing crashes and they have their own investigative team that works with the FAA and NTSB. The workers take it super hard.
Damn, this does not look good for the 737 Max 8s. Boeing, worldwide airlines: do the right thing and ground them until the problem is either fixed or ruled out! I am glad to see China and others headed that way.
I'm flying United in a week and a half or so, and they don't have any Max 8s, but they do have Max 9s. I'm on 757 and 787s, so it doesn't affect my travels, but do the Max 9s have the same issues?
From the coverage, I think United has PR folks working hard to keep the news organizations focused on the MAX-8 only, making this a Southwest and AA problem in the US.
But from a design standpoint, all the 737-MAX planes have this larger and more efficient engine, which has slightly different wing placement and thus requires this MCAS software aid in balancing and prevent stall. It is safe to assume the MAX-9 has the same software and design, and thus the same issue (United has maybe 15 of them in their fleet).
I also think at this point all MAX pilots are well aware of the problem and the override steps - but I thought that before this weekend too.
Damn, this does not look good for the 737 Max 8s. Boeing, worldwide airlines: do the right thing and ground them until the problem is either fixed or ruled out! I am glad to see China and others headed that way.
I'm flying United in a week and a half or so, and they don't have any Max 8s, but they do have Max 9s. I'm on 757 and 787s, so it doesn't affect my travels, but do the Max 9s have the same issues?
From the coverage, I think United has PR folks working hard to keep the news organizations focused on the MAX-8 only, making this a Southwest and AA problem in the US.
But from a design standpoint, all the 737-MAX planes have this larger and more efficient engine, which has slightly different wing placement and thus requires this MCAS software aid in balancing and prevent stall. It is safe to assume the MAX-9 has the same software and design, and thus the same issue (United has maybe 15 of them in their fleet).
I also think at this point all MAX pilots are well aware of the problem and the override steps - but I thought that before this weekend too.
Yes, my understanding from Boeing is all pilots should have significant knowledge of the new designs and computer programming. That is not say that this isn't a Boeing, engineering issue, because it just may be, but most crashes are due to pilot error, and potentially undertrained pilots on a new aircraft. Either way, it is a huge fucking problem if two new designs crashed. Something clearly isn't right. But either way it won't bring back those lost
There are multiple types of 737s. The Max 8 is the one that is under the microscope here. We fly Southwest next month, which exclusively flies 737s, but only has 13 Max 8s. Looking up our flights now.
Southwest has 34 Max 8s according to the response I got from their Twitter team today. There are currently no plans to ground them.
There are multiple types of 737s. The Max 8 is the one that is under the microscope here. We fly Southwest next month, which exclusively flies 737s, but only has 13 Max 8s. Looking up our flights now.
Southwest has 34 Max 8s according to the response I got from their Twitter team today. There are currently no plans to ground them.
We're planning on visiting my parents in NorCal next month (we always fly Southwest) but now I think I'd rather drive instead of fly even though it'll be a hassle. I'm not at all a nervous flyer usually but this has me concerned.
i really hope Airlines are cautious with their use of this plane. Generally, it takes months for the NTSB to finalize their reports and all that jazz, so that any changes that could be suggested and stuff might be months away. Same model plane crashing shortly after take off is not a coincidence, it is the sign of a major problem lurking.
Post by Velar Fricative on Mar 12, 2019 8:10:28 GMT -5
After reading the latest articles about this crash, it dawned on me when there was a mention of Malaysia Airlines growing its Boeing 737 Max 8s that we may have passed the 5-year mark of the disappearance of MH370. I checked and yup, 3/8/14. Insane.
I tell myself all the damn time that a bazillion planes are in the air at any given moment with no issues whatsoever but I’d still be concerned about flying on a Max 8 right now.
Southwest has 34 Max 8s according to the response I got from their Twitter team today. There are currently no plans to ground them.
We're planning on visiting my parents in NorCal next month (we always fly Southwest) but now I think I'd rather drive instead of fly even though it'll be a hassle. I'm not at all a nervous flyer usually but this has me concerned.
Southwest has something like 750+ planes, of which 34 are Max 8. AA has over 1000 planes, about 25 of which are Max 8. United has 800+ planes, of which 14 are Max 9 - so chances of being assigned one of these planes are very small at all of these airlines. I count 40 or 50 of them in the air right now over the US - and they aren't just dropping out of the sky.
What happened in Lion Air (and speculatively maybe EA too) is a single sensor went bad and gave false information that the plane was angled too high, which causes the MCAS system to (pretty aggressively) nose the plane down. The planes actually have two of these sensors, but the system apparently just uses one of them (assigned at takeoff) to tie to this system (which seems like a terrible design to me and is probably what this required Boeing software fix will address)
From what I understand, AA and SWA (and possibly united too - I don't know) are now ordering planes with an upgrade that gives the pilots information about what both sensors are doing. That means on these planes even if this were to happen, the pilots would be easily able to see that their sensors are in disagreement and quickly conclude what problem is happening and use the steps to overcome it. I wish these airlines would come out and confirm that all their planes in operation allow for both AOA sensors to be read from the cockpit because that change alone goes a long way in giving pilots the information they need to quickly address the issue.
There are multiple types of 737s. The Max 8 is the one that is under the microscope here. We fly Southwest next month, which exclusively flies 737s, but only has 13 Max 8s. Looking up our flights now.
Southwest has 34 Max 8s according to the response I got from their Twitter team today. There are currently no plans to ground them.
Yeah, the info on the flight site I checked was outdated. I did see a follow up that the vast majority of the SW Max 8 routes are in the Western U.S. (which makes sense since they are probably heavily weighted towards serving those areas).