@ Madeleine McCann Netflix documentary (spoilers likely)

[Velar Fricative]

Anyone watching this? I'm halfway through (it's 8 episodes long). First, I kept thinking she disappeared 7-8 years ago; it's hard to believe she disappeared in 2007! I either forgot a ton of facts in this story or didn't know a lot of what they've discussed so far (such as the sniffer dogs, etc.), so there is a lot to chew on. I'm glad they are also interviewing many Portuguese people involved in the investigation (police, journalists, etc.) because I do remember there was so much talk about botching the investigation but it's not so simple and we generally got more news from the British side, which likely skewed things.

[af1212]

So I wanted to watch it but I was afraid it would be too upsetting. Is it? I have three little girls and no plans to travel to Portugal (ever) if that matters. I do however have fear of leaving them alone in a hotel room and have never done so due to this situation.

[Velar Fricative]

Mar 20, 2019 9:04:05 GMT -5 af1212 said:

So I wanted to watch it but I was afraid it would be too upsetting. Is it? I have three little girls and no plans to travel to Portugal (ever) if that matters. I do however have fear of leaving them alone in a hotel room and have never done so due to this situation.

I have two little girls myself and honestly, I haven't found it too upsetting beyond any of the feelings I've already felt about this case, if that makes sense. I also don't feel like they make Portugal seem like some dangerous place either; on the contrary, the town where this happened is not described as a hotbed of crime at all. It's a popular area with tourists. 

[af1212]

Mar 20, 2019 9:08:11 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Mar 20, 2019 9:04:05 GMT -5 af1212 said:

So I wanted to watch it but I was afraid it would be too upsetting. Is it? I have three little girls and no plans to travel to Portugal (ever) if that matters. I do however have fear of leaving them alone in a hotel room and have never done so due to this situation.

I have two little girls myself and honestly, I haven't found it too upsetting beyond any of the feelings I've already felt about this case, if that makes sense. I also don't feel like they make Portugal seem like some dangerous place either; on the contrary, the town where this happened is not described as a hotbed of crime at all. It's a popular area with tourists. 

Ok thanks. And I didn’t mean to make Portugal sound dangerous or scary although I see how it can read that way. More like I have no reason to personalize this story other than having kids. Sort of like how you might not want to read about a plane crash while boarding a plane, even though you know planes are safe.

[krystee]

Does it leave you with any leanings toward what may have happened?

[just]

I thought it was WAY too long. They did not have nearly enough content for an 8 episode documentary.

I'm Irish so I've always followed this very closely so I didn't learn much new. I thought the discussion about the weakness of relying on the sniffer dog triggers, and just seeing the actual villa, etc. I've never thought the family had anything to do with it, and I think despite the family's active protest against the documentary, it ends pretty much along that line.

The best part is the discussion around the organized human trafficing crime rings. While still a little light, I thought they dealt with it well - moving the discussion beyond Madeline, to all of the children missing and vulnerable. I liked that the highlighted (though briefly) some of the other heartbreaking disappearances from Portugal/Spain around that time.

[Velar Fricative]

I haven't watched the whole thing (so far, the four episodes have been good but maybe I'll feel similarly to just after eight episodes). I've never felt strongly regarding whether the parents were involved or not and so far, I'm still not swayed in either direction. But there are still general details that just don't make sense to me (the timeline of the adults checking on the kids, the sniffer dogs' findings, etc.). I'm curious to see if I can be swayed either way by the end of the series (and I'm guessing since she hasn't been found as of today and her parents haven't been charged with anything, I probably won't be leaning strongly towards them being involved by the end).

[tracita]

I agree it was a bit long. I had either forgotten or didn't know that the mother was considered such a strong suspect by the Portugese police. Neither parent was likable, I do remember that, but I don't know if they were involved. The stories of the other disappeared children were heartbreaking.

[loira]

Haven't watched it yet, but I was living in the UK when it happened. I think it's one of those things, like the murder of Meredith Kercher, that I doubt anyone will ever know what really happened.

[anonymous]

the idea of my child being placed into human trafficking is so horrifying. I didn't watch but I can't imagine much of a worse hell for parents.

[stever]

I’m almost done with the first episode. I lived in the UK until just before this happened so was fairly habitual with getting my news from Uk sources, so this was huuuuge. Honestly, I’ve always been so blinded by rage that the parents left their babies alone so they could go drink down the street that the details have always been fuzzy. I’m hoping to learn some more from this series.

[Alps79]

Mar 20, 2019 10:42:45 GMT -5 anonymous said:

the idea of my child being placed into human trafficking is so horrifying. I didn't watch but I can't imagine much of a worse hell for parents.

ITA

[VillainV]

Ill have to add this to my list of shows to watch. I also don’t have any strong feelings about whether or not the parents were involved, but I do think parents leaving children in hotel rooms/villas was relatively common before this happened, and I can certainly understand the temptation, especially in a relatively controlled environment in a safe place like a resort or vacation spot.

I remember a few years ago someone (the family? a law enforcement agency?) created a picture of what they think Madeline would look like. I wonder if they’ve updated it. I keep hoping that she will turn up someplace like Elizabeth Smart — except she might not have any idea who she really is.

[Velar Fricative]

They had left the kids in the hotel room most nights they were there before their disappearance, plus the couples they were with that night also left their kids in their respective rooms. I admit I was pretty surprised by how far the room was from Tapas (this was the first time I can recall really seeing the distance), but they apparently had a rotation of people checking on the kids throughout the night. While I wouldn’t do it, this is one of those things that I am sure is tempting to do when you’re at a resort with lots of families.

One of the things that doesn’t make sense to me is that if they were checking as regularly as described, that is some coincidence that someone snatched her in between check-ins. Still not done watching so maybe they mentioned that someone might have been hiding out and snatched her just a few minutes after a check? Just seems like such a gamble considering the location of the apartment near the street too, but whoever did it managed to not get caught.

[boxertdog]

Mar 20, 2019 17:30:52 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

They had left the kids in the hotel room most nights they were there before their disappearance, plus the couples they were with that night also left their kids in their respective rooms. I admit I was pretty surprised by how far the room was from Tapas (this was the first time I can recall really seeing the distance), but they apparently had a rotation of people checking on the kids throughout the night. While I wouldn’t do it, this is one of those things that I am sure is tempting to do when you’re at a resort with lots of families.

One of the things that doesn’t make sense to me is that if they were checking as regularly as described, that is some coincidence that someone snatched her in between check-ins. Still not done watching so maybe they mentioned that someone might have been hiding out and snatched her just a few minutes after a check? Just seems like such a gamble considering the location of the apartment near the street too, but whoever did it managed to not get caught.

So I always heard this as that every 30 mins one of the parents would go check on ALL of the kids but the documentary definitely made it seem like no - every 3 rounds or so each parent would go check on their OWN kids. Also I have a realllly hard time they did this as often as they said. How the fuck is it even worth it to go to dinner if you have to get up every 30 mins and walk all the way over and back which would take 10 at LEAST.  And the resort offered babysitting service - why didn't they just pay an adult to sit there with the kids over leaving them alone?  

I really don't want to be the judgy asshole, but my kids are 7 and 9 and I just cannot imagine leaving THEM alone in this type of situation let alone babies and a toddler.  I feel like the parents story is bullshit which is why everyone thought they were guilty.  I don't think they killed their daughter, but I think they've been lying about what happened since it happened. 

[Michelle]

I can't bear to watch it. My DD was born in 2007 and this story was not what i needed to see as a new mom with PPD. I've always been super paranoid about someone kidnapping her, so this story and others like it don't help.

When we were in Nashville last year, my husband asked if i would consider leaving DD in the hotel room and going down to the bar for a drink. Or maybe even walking across the street to the bbq joint where some celebrities were coming in and out (it was CMA week). DD said she was fine and wouldn't open the door, would put the extra door lock on in case hotel staff tried to come in, etc. But I just couldn't get Madeleine McCann out of my mind and i couldn't do it.

And i'm not comfortable with hotel babysitters because as far as i know they are paid by the human traffickers to steal the babies. (hyperbole intended).

[krystee]

I am not usually one to be paranoid about kidnappers and I almost always side with the parents on stories in the news where terrible accidents occur, but I can’t imagine leaving for 30-minute intervals when the kids could wake up and be crying and terrified for half an hour thinking they were all alone. My three-year-old would have been traumatized to wake up to a strange room with no parents to be found for half an hour. I can totally see him dragging over a chair and undoing any security locks so he could leave and find us. You can afford to travel to another country—pay for a babysitter. I just read she was one week away from her 4th birthday and that is exactly the ge my son is now. He turns 4 next week. My heart goes out to the parents, even if I wouldn’t have done what they did.

I would go stark raving mad if I had to live my life thinking about my child in a sex trafficking lair every single day. How do these lairs operate publicly enough to get clients but privately enough to not be found? These things should be priority number 1 for law enforcement agencies. It is unreal that sexual slavery still exists (in large numbers!) today.

[waverly]

Mar 20, 2019 19:21:21 GMT -5 krystee said:

I am not usually one to be paranoid about kidnappers and I almost always side with the parents on stories in the news where terrible accidents occur, but I can’t imagine leaving for 30-minute intervals when the kids could wake up and be crying and terrified for half an hour thinking they were all alone. My three-year-old would have been traumatized to wake up to a strange room with no parents to be found for half an hour. I can totally see him dragging over a chair and undoing any security locks so he could leave and find us. You can afford to travel to another country—pay for a babysitter. I just read she was one week away from her 4th birthday and that is exactly the ge my son is now. He turns 4 next week. My heart goes out to the parents, even if I wouldn’t have done what they did.

I would go stark raving mad if I had to live my life thinking about my child in a sex trafficking lair every single day. How do these lairs operate publicly enough to get clients but privately enough to not be found? These things should be priority number 1 for law enforcement agencies. It is unreal that sexual slavery still exists (in large numbers!) today.

Same. Actually the house/ room looked pretty safe but I kept reading to see if there were older kids there watching them. Because for a 3 year old and a 2 year old that was too young to be left alone. I didn’t see the ages of the other kids.
They had a large group why didn’t they pick 1-2 people to stay for half the evening and then switch? I think there were 8 adults and less days so everyone still got to go to a lot of group dinners.

[frlcb]

I've only seen the first few but I also lived in the UK when this happened and remember it and the press coverage so vividly. I don't think the parents had anything to do with it. I don't even really judge the parents for leaving the kids asleep - I wouldn't make that choice for my own (even now at 11 and 7) but I bet this happens more than people think, especially at a resort like this one in a 'safe' town. I imagine someone was probably watching - and they left the porch door unlocked.

[bigoleworm]

I read somewhere a few years back that Europeans are more likely to leave a sleeping child in a carriage outside a pub or a restaurant than Americans. I don't know how true this is, but I wonder if culturally this was more of a thing to do.
I know that there was a couple in NYC on vacation from England and they left their baby in a carriage right outside from where they were in the restaurant, and had no idea it wasn't a thing in the US.

**Edit** I just googled and found out it was a Danish woman, not English. Sorry.

[just]

Mar 20, 2019 20:38:53 GMT -5 bigoleworm said:

I read somewhere a few years back that Europeans are more likely to leave a sleeping child in a carriage outside a pub or a restaurant than Americans. I don't know how true this is, but I wonder if culturally this was more of a thing to do.
I know that there was a couple in NYC on vacation from England and they left their baby in a carriage right outside from where they were in the restaurant, and had no idea it wasn't a thing in the US.

**Edit** I just googled and found out it was a Danish woman, not English. Sorry.

While things are changing - this was definitely true of shops. Local corner shops in small towns are tiny so there usually isn't room so you'd often see buggies/strollers outside. My sisters did it with their children and they weren't unusual.

I do think it's less of a thing with pubs and restaurants - but thats just from my experience.

<<off topic>>
When my nephew was very young, my sister walked to the local shop, went in, pick up a couple of things and came out - less than 3-4 minutes. Came out and my nephew wasn't there. She understandably LOST it, screaming running crying. Shopkeeper called the police. Then (no cell phones at that time) she used the shop phone to call her husband, who was understandably confused as my nephew was at home with him. She was mortified.

[cattledogkisses]

Mar 20, 2019 20:38:53 GMT -5 bigoleworm said:

I read somewhere a few years back that Europeans are more likely to leave a sleeping child in a carriage outside a pub or a restaurant than Americans. I don't know how true this is, but I wonder if culturally this was more of a thing to do.
I know that there was a couple in NYC on vacation from England and they left their baby in a carriage right outside from where they were in the restaurant, and had no idea it wasn't a thing in the US.

**Edit** I just googled and found out it was a Danish woman, not English. Sorry.

Can confirm that this was a thing where I lived in Europe.  It was rather jarring the first time I came across a baby sleeping in a carriage with no parent in sight. 

[waverly]

Mar 20, 2019 21:19:42 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Mar 20, 2019 20:38:53 GMT -5 bigoleworm said:

I read somewhere a few years back that Europeans are more likely to leave a sleeping child in a carriage outside a pub or a restaurant than Americans. I don't know how true this is, but I wonder if culturally this was more of a thing to do.
I know that there was a couple in NYC on vacation from England and they left their baby in a carriage right outside from where they were in the restaurant, and had no idea it wasn't a thing in the US.

**Edit** I just googled and found out it was a Danish woman, not English. Sorry.

Can confirm that this was a thing where I lived in Europe.  It was rather jarring the first time I came across a baby sleeping in a carriage with no parent in sight. 

It’s definitely a cultural thing. I left my kid in his stroller in the front yard near the house asleep and wandered in the back yard and forgot him for a few minutes and was like OMG. But of course it’s no big deal in reality.

Ironic talking about this on a potential kidnapping thread, yes there are baby snatchers in the world, but the odds that someone wants a baby is pretty low. It’s probably safer to leave them sleeping in a basonette in some of those villages where there is essentially no crime then to leave a toddler who could get into loads more trouble.

[Velar Fricative]

Just watched episodes 5 and 6. Well, shit. So much for believing the Portuguese police.

Also, they found the creepiest guy ever to play a “charity collector.” I might have nightmares with that guy in them tonight. I did not recall ever hearing this theory before about this random ring of criminals posing as charity collectors around the area.

[CloudBee]

I just started it tonight. Knowing the emotional toll infertility takes on a couple, I can't imagine a family resorting to IVF could do the unthinkable with their own child. Unless they were covering up an accident. I'm only a few minutes into the 1st episode, so I don't know anything more than what I remember from when it happened.

[Velar Fricative]

I’m done now and definitely learned and re-learned a ton. I still don’t have any strong feeling about what happened, despite the length of the series. I also have no strong feeling about whether or not she is still alive. I hope she is, but if she is, identifying her is a whole other issue since she may have no idea who she actually is if she’s alive. And it’s already been almost 12 years since she disappeared so you also have to hope that one day, whoever knows what happened will decide to share what they know. Just scary and awful all around.

[CloudBee]

OMG, at least one family left the back patio door to their resort apartment unlocked.

And all of the vacationing families they highlight in the first episode left their kids asleep, alone, in their apartments at the same time every night. For nights on end. Of course people staying a week or more at the same resort start to place kids with their parents by face, room, etc. They created the perfect scenario for someone to swipe a child. Honestly, some nights when I go to bed at about the same time, and flip off our downstairs lights, I think "this is how serial killers stake out their victims!"

You don't leave your kids alone (ever!), at the same time, every night, where people see you walking to and front the apartment obviously checking on them. (If they have seen you on the beach for days on end and know your children aren't with you.) If it were a resort employee they would easily have figured out that the children weren't at the night creche and were in their apartments alone.

[Aquatica]

I'm only on the first episode and had to stop due to anxiety. To reiterate PPs, why would you leave a child alone at all? I don't remember this case at all so it's new info to me. As others have mentioned, it's a cultural difference. I've noticed some of the habits in Korea (leaving items unattended like strollers and bikes unlocked) because there isn't a high crime rate and the same with some states (where I lived in Utah people left their homes and cars unlocked). Coming from a high crime state, I'm used to securing and locking everything so leaving anything unsecured throws me off.

[hermione]

I haven't watched but isn't there speculation that one of they adults saw the kidnapping take place but thought it was just a father carrying his own child? Honestly, I don;t know if that is something I remember from this tragedy or if it was part of a book I read.

[pandora89]

Mar 22, 2019 9:18:40 GMT -5 hermione said:

I haven't watched but isn't there speculation that one of they adults saw the kidnapping take place but thought it was just a father carrying his own child? Honestly, I don;t know if that is something I remember from this tragedy or if it was part of a book I read.

I think someone at the resort said that they saw someone carrying a child who was in her PJs outside the resort at around the same time she went missing. The person later said that they thought it was the dad after seeing the dad carrying one of his other kids of a plane but then changed his/her mind. The sketch of the person carrying the child was awful, had an oval face with hair, that’s it.