More parents under investigation for college fraud

[Velar Fricative]

LA's elite is on edge. Oh no!

www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/college-admissions-scandal.html

[goldengirlz]

I figured the indictments must be the tip of the iceberg.

I also assume the same is true for the Bay Area’s elite (“elite”).

[Deleted]

[pixy0stix]

[Velar Fricative]

I for one cannot WAIT to see which other celebrities are involved because the Aunt Becky memes have been epic.

[sonrisa]

May 1, 2019 12:13:48 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

I figured the indictments must be the tip of the iceberg.

I also assume the same is true for the Bay Area’s elite (“elite”).

There were a few bay area people in the first batch. At least Marin Academy (a private school in San Rafael) had a few people get hit (one of the trustees, I think? and someone in wine?)

[goldengirlz]

May 1, 2019 21:01:59 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

May 1, 2019 12:13:48 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

I figured the indictments must be the tip of the iceberg.

I also assume the same is true for the Bay Area’s elite (“elite”).

There were a few bay area people in the first batch. At least Marin Academy (a private school in San Rafael) had a few people get hit (one of the trustees, I think? and someone in wine?)

More than a few! I think we had 13 in the first go-round. (But surprisingly, no big tech names.)

[sonrisa]

May 1, 2019 21:06:34 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

May 1, 2019 21:01:59 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

There were a few bay area people in the first batch. At least Marin Academy (a private school in San Rafael) had a few people get hit (one of the trustees, I think? and someone in wine?)

More than a few! I think we had 13 in the first go-round. (But surprisingly, no big tech names.)

You paid more attention to the locations than I did :-)

[goldengirlz]

May 1, 2019 21:08:30 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

May 1, 2019 21:06:34 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

More than a few! I think we had 13 in the first go-round. (But surprisingly, no big tech names.)

You paid more attention to the locations than I did :-)

Only because I’m an avid watcher of KRON4 news at 10. 😛

Here’s our local list: www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/what-we-know-about-13-bay-area-parents-charged-in-college-admissions-scandal/1845917398

[okla]

Apropos of nothing, when I skimmed over this thread title, I read it as “MY parents under...” and was like WOW.

Anyway, I’ll read the article now.

[dianecourt]

I'd have to think the family that spent $6.5 million to get their non-sailor daughter into Stanford could have made a larger donation and avoided the whole mess. Admittedly, that's still very privileged, but part of the accepted system. Corrupt going to stay corrupt, I suppose.

[madringal]

May 1, 2019 22:02:09 GMT -5 dianecourt said:

I'd have to think the family that spent $6.5 million to get their non-sailor daughter into Stanford could have made a larger donation and avoided the whole mess. Admittedly, that's still very privileged, but part of the accepted system. Corrupt going to stay corrupt, I suppose.

But seriously though, when you have that kind of money does your kid really need a degree? I know that’s awful to say, but couldn’t you just leave her that money in a trust fund and get one of your swanky friends to give her a job with a title somewhere and just forgoe college altogether? If she wasn’t bright enough to get into one of those schools on her own, it’s not like she was going to be running Fortune 500 companies one day or blazing a trail in the sciences.

[aprilsails]

May 2, 2019 7:59:22 GMT -5 madringal said:

May 1, 2019 22:02:09 GMT -5 dianecourt said:

I'd have to think the family that spent $6.5 million to get their non-sailor daughter into Stanford could have made a larger donation and avoided the whole mess. Admittedly, that's still very privileged, but part of the accepted system. Corrupt going to stay corrupt, I suppose.

But seriously though, when you have that kind of money does your kid really need a degree? I know that’s awful to say, but couldn’t you just leave her that money in a trust fund and get one of your swanky friends to give her a job with a title somewhere and just forgoe college altogether? If she wasn’t bright enough to get into one of those schools on her own, it’s not like she was going to be running Fortune 500 companies one day or blazing a trail in the sciences.

Beyond that, for that much money you could actually probably get her onto an America’s Cup boat, so that the ‘sailing’ team acceptance was legit. That much money spent on a work around is bonkers.

[mrsukyankee]

May 2, 2019 7:59:22 GMT -5 madringal said:

May 1, 2019 22:02:09 GMT -5 dianecourt said:

I'd have to think the family that spent $6.5 million to get their non-sailor daughter into Stanford could have made a larger donation and avoided the whole mess. Admittedly, that's still very privileged, but part of the accepted system. Corrupt going to stay corrupt, I suppose.

But seriously though, when you have that kind of money does your kid really need a degree? I know that’s awful to say, but couldn’t you just leave her that money in a trust fund and get one of your swanky friends to give her a job with a title somewhere and just forgoe college altogether? If she wasn’t bright enough to get into one of those schools on her own, it’s not like she was going to be running Fortune 500 companies one day or blazing a trail in the sciences.

It has nothing to do with education or jobs and all about being able to say, "my kid went to X, where'd yours go?".  As someone who has worked in the private school business for years, university name is ultra important to some. It's bullshit.

[litebright]

May 2, 2019 7:59:22 GMT -5 madringal said:

May 1, 2019 22:02:09 GMT -5 dianecourt said:

I'd have to think the family that spent $6.5 million to get their non-sailor daughter into Stanford could have made a larger donation and avoided the whole mess. Admittedly, that's still very privileged, but part of the accepted system. Corrupt going to stay corrupt, I suppose.

But seriously though, when you have that kind of money does your kid really need a degree? I know that’s awful to say, but couldn’t you just leave her that money in a trust fund and get one of your swanky friends to give her a job with a title somewhere and just forgoe college altogether? If she wasn’t bright enough to get into one of those schools on her own, it’s not like she was going to be running Fortune 500 companies one day or blazing a trail in the sciences.

I mean, you could easily have a six-figure income just by living off the interest and/or returns from investing that much money, right? 

But that second part -- come on, getting into top-tier, super-competitive schools isn't just about being bright/smart enough. They reject plenty of people who could handle the work successfully. Admissions departments pick and choose based on a lot of things beyond the baseline of being intelligent, to put together the class cohort that they want -- and that's exactly what these parents are trying to exploit. Plus, the idea that if you can't get into one of those schools, then you're never going to reach the top tier of business or be a science leader is complete BS and part of the reason that parents are willing to pull any lever, legal or not, to get their kids in. 

ETA: I can't say that a degree from those kind of places doesn't potentially open doors or provide opportunities that you might not otherwise get. There are reasons that people desperately want to go/want their kids to go to those schools and I don't think it's so much because the coursework is so radically different/better than other colleges/universities that, say, only Harvard kids can do Harvard work; it's the other, more intangible opportunities that you only get if you go to Harvard. And those are real. But I still don't think that if you can't/don't get into a top-tier school, it means you aren't top-tier business or science leadership material -- or, alternatively, that just because you get into one, you are. 

[Velar Fricative]

May 2, 2019 7:59:22 GMT -5 madringal said:

May 1, 2019 22:02:09 GMT -5 dianecourt said:

I'd have to think the family that spent $6.5 million to get their non-sailor daughter into Stanford could have made a larger donation and avoided the whole mess. Admittedly, that's still very privileged, but part of the accepted system. Corrupt going to stay corrupt, I suppose.

But seriously though, when you have that kind of money does your kid really need a degree? I know that’s awful to say, but couldn’t you just leave her that money in a trust fund and get one of your swanky friends to give her a job with a title somewhere and just forgoe college altogether? If she wasn’t bright enough to get into one of those schools on her own, it’s not like she was going to be running Fortune 500 companies one day or blazing a trail in the sciences.

That may not be appealing in China. For all we know, a Stanford degree for a Chinese woman could really pay off hugely for her career in China, whether in private industry or within the government. I've never lived in China so I can't say for sure, but I'm willing to bet that if the degree was worth $6.5 million to them, then it's not just for the privilege of being able to tell their neighbors their kid went to Stanford. 

[ECB]

May 2, 2019 8:17:40 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

It has nothing to do with education or jobs and all about being able to say, "my kid went to X, where'd yours go?".  As someone who has worked in the private school business for years, university name is ultra important to some. It's bullshit.

Exactly.  In the area that I live, while we have a great public school system, we also have a TON of private schools (k-12).  When people ask "Where did you go to school?", they don't mean college.  They mean was private high school did you go to.  

And there are people that I know that complain up and down about the cost of school BUT will send all their kids to private - some literally to be able to name drop, others because their kids will be legacy (and also maybe to name drop too).  

But yet we have great public schools....

I really hate this aspect of where we live. 

[hocus2]

While the book Hillbilly Elegy has problems he made it very clear the value of being in a prestigious school and the sort of doors it could open. There are lot of really talented people who go to a normal state school who then have to bust their butts to get their foot in the door at their first job. I don't know that 6.5 Million is worth it just for the job prospects and connections to people already in powerful jobs but there is a boost the comes from these highly prestigious schools. IF not we wouldn't see the supreme court have Yale and Harvard as its primary feeders. It isn't possible that they aren't also great legal minds in the other 198 law schools out there and yet here we are. with 6 out of 7 current SCJ from just 2 schools.

[mrsukyankee]

Chinese families are VERY vested in big name schools - some of it is definitely to say where their kid goes and some of it means they will get a better job. But if you are already from a family who can give that sort of money as a donation or bribe, then they probably don't need help getting a job as the family probably owns whatever company they'd be working in.

Note: I have had this very conversation with Chinese students at the London university where I work. 

[sent]

Can the government go after the Chinese family the same way they are taking down Aunt Becky and the others?

[4speedy]

May 2, 2019 14:29:22 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

Chinese families are VERY vested in big name schools - some of it is definitely to say where their kid goes and some of it means they will get a better job. But if you are already from a family who can give that sort of money as a donation or bribe, then they probably don't need help getting a job as the family probably owns whatever company they'd be working in.

Note: I have had this very conversation with Chinese students at the London university where I work. 

I read an article last fall about The Test Culture here in an English language Korean newspaper.  Koreans take tests throughout their whole careers.  It determines who gets hired, who gets promotions, etc.  even at upper levels.  The explanation was that Korea still has somewhat of a Confucianist culture and everything is in terms of “we” and for the group.  Koreans don’t really like to be singled out in a group.  My husband is the managing director of a design group here.  He has had to learn that he can’t praise someone for a good sketch in a group setting because it makes them feel uncomfortable.  Judging a sketch is subjective and might show favoritism and that would be uncomfortable.  However, my DH CAN post a list of everyone who took the theory of design test results which clearly shows who got the best scores and that would be a-ok.  His employees WANT the recognition, they just want it to be based on fact, not opinion so nobody has hurt feelings.

Alma mater works in a similar way.  If a Korean person is up for a promotion, saying one employee is the hardest worker probably wouldn’t get him or her very far but saying he or she graduated from Stanford would count for everything because it is a statement of fact.  So where a person went to school doesn’t just affect getting hired for their first job, it could follow them throughout their entire career.  It would not be unusual here for a 60 year old man with a 35 year work history to get a CEO position based on attending the right school.  You could have horrible people skills and be a horrible manager but having the Stanford degree would get that person the promotion.

[sonrisa]

May 2, 2019 22:02:56 GMT -5 4speedy said:

 It would not be unusual here for a 60 year old man with a 35 year work history to get a CEO position based on attending the right school. 

That happens plenty here in the US, too. You aren't going to be considered for partner at many law firms unless you have the right name on your degree.

[mrsukyankee]

Please note that I recognise the importance of name of school in job getting - it happens here in England too (Oxford/Cambridge for example). I went to an Ivy and it's helped me as well in the private school jobs I've gotten. The people who need these names for jobs was not who I was talking about in any of my comments.

[pixy0stix]

Felicity Huffman pleaded guilty today. www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2019/05/13/felicity-huffman-plead-guilty-college-admissions-scandal-rick-singer-varsity-blues-sat-cheating/1151158001/

[lillaguma]

May 2, 2019 9:34:53 GMT -5 ECB said:

May 2, 2019 8:17:40 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

It has nothing to do with education or jobs and all about being able to say, "my kid went to X, where'd yours go?".  As someone who has worked in the private school business for years, university name is ultra important to some. It's bullshit.

Exactly.  In the area that I live, while we have a great public school system, we also have a TON of private schools (k-12).  When people ask "Where did you go to school?", they don't mean college.  They mean was private high school did you go to.  

And there are people that I know that complain up and down about the cost of school BUT will send all their kids to private - some literally to be able to name drop, others because their kids will be legacy (and also maybe to name drop too).  

But yet we have great public schools....

I really hate this aspect of where we live. 

I started doing freelance work for some private schools and ran into this - people would ask me where I went to school and I'd respond with my university only to find out that they meant high school. To which I was like, well... a public school back west? Which actually is a school with a good reputation and a long history, but that means nothing here. Or anywhere, really.