Chilling new Georgia anti-abortion law

[goldengirlz]

I don’t think anyone’s mentioned this yet: Georgia just passed a sickening measure that 1) grants personhood to fetuses and 2) could be used to prosecute women who have an abortion on par with murderers.

www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/hb-481-georgia-law-criminalizes-abortion-subjects-women-to-life-in-prison.amp

[suburbanzookeeper]

I'm still in denial this passed.

"Prosecutors may interrogate women who miscarry to determine whether they can be held responsible; if they find evidence of culpability, they may charge, detain, and try these women for the death of their fetuses."

"Even women who seek lawful abortions out of state may not escape punishment. If a Georgia resident plans to travel elsewhere to obtain an abortion, she may be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, punishable by 10 years’ imprisonment. An individual who helps a woman plan her trip to get an out-of-state abortion, or transports her to the clinic, may also be charged with conspiracy. These individuals, after all, are “conspiring” to end of the life of a “person” with “full legal recognition” under Georgia law."

[thejackpot]

I am horrified that this is what is going on and I am furious that this type of crap will only truly impact the poor and people of color.

[isabel]

The Handmaid's Tale is literally all I can think of. That they can prosecute residents who go across state lines too is just... Wow.

[mrsukyankee]

May 8, 2019 10:24:38 GMT -5 suburbanzookeeper said:

I'm still in denial this passed.

"Prosecutors may interrogate women who miscarry to determine whether they can be held responsible; if they find evidence of culpability, they may charge, detain, and try these women for the death of their fetuses."

"Even women who seek lawful abortions out of state may not escape punishment. If a Georgia resident plans to travel elsewhere to obtain an abortion, she may be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, punishable by 10 years’ imprisonment. An individual who helps a woman plan her trip to get an out-of-state abortion, or transports her to the clinic, may also be charged with conspiracy. These individuals, after all, are “conspiring” to end of the life of a “person” with “full legal recognition” under Georgia law."

Pure hatred of women. That is chilling.

[mrsukyankee]

May 8, 2019 10:30:07 GMT -5 isabel said:

The Handmaid's Tale is literally all I can think of. That they can prosecute residents who go across state lines too is just... Wow.

Same

[mskitkat]

Combined with Georgia’s dismal maternal mortality rate, this bill is a death sentence for women.

[isabel]

At one point, I got into it with my dad about abortion rights (specifically in Texas since that's where I'm from). His position was that a woman who wants an abortion can leave the state to get one. Even if that were reasonable (which it's not), this law now prevents even that. Now, in order for women to have a legal abortion (by federal law), a Georgia resident would have to, somehow, revoke Georgia residence, move across state lines, and get residency in another state all before having an abortion. It's just so incomprehensible. ABORTION IS LEGAL!

[hocus2]

Even if the law is not completely tossed out which I expect it will be I find the specific reference about out of state highly suspect. Our legal system doesn't really work this way. You can't prosecute if you don't have jurisdiction and they wouldn't for folks in a neighboring state. Maybe the lawyers an explain if conspiring to do can act has just powerful geographic legal implications. I'm doubtful.

[WOT?*]

You don't have to have residency here in order to have an abortion here.

But if you're a resident of Georgia and come here to "visit" someone and have an abortion here, can they come after you because of residency? They would have jurisdiction over the fetus because it's a person and a resident of the state? Or would WA (or whatever other "librul" state) have jurisdiction since the procedure was done here and WA doesn't view a fetus as a person (per federal law)? So many questions for SCOTUS to address as it continues to chip away at Roe v Wade.

[Velar Fricative]

I'm ashamed to say that I avoid following these bullshit bills coming out of bullshit states so I had no fucking idea this particular one goes even more apeshit than the rest. OMG.

Per WOT?*'s post, this could get very messy legally. If WA has jurisdiction over a "murder" committed there but they're like, "Well, we're sane and therefore don't consider this murder," then could they refuse to extradite the resident to GA? And then WTF happens after that?

My guess is these assholes in GA didn't really think this shit through or know this is all so ridiculous and that it will be deemed unconstitutional but just want to grandstand and show that they support life. Fuck these assholes.

[cville]

There's just so much wrong with every aspect of this law--including that it was signed by a governor who stole an election--that it's almost too monumental to process.

[smock]

Remember during the 2016 election when Trump said women should be punished for having abortions, and the uproar was so loud (even on the GOP side) that he had to walk it back? Which he NEVER does?

And now the 8th largest state says women can receive the DEATH PENALTY for getting an abortion.

[goldengirlz]

May 8, 2019 10:38:29 GMT -5 hocus2 said:

Even if the law is not completely tossed out which I expect it will be I find the specific reference about out of state highly suspect. Our legal system doesn't really work this way. You can't prosecute if you don't have jurisdiction and they wouldn't for folks in a neighboring state. Maybe the lawyers an explain if conspiring to do can act has just powerful geographic legal implications. I'm doubtful.

Cynically, I think they’re making it as over-the-top as possible to get to SCOTUS. Even if they expect some or all of it to be “tossed out,” they’d first need to go through a legal challenge and parts of it could be upheld.

That said, it’s SO over-the-top, I wonder how any of it could stand. This seems like it’s almost asking the Court to reaffirm the right to privacy (like being able to cross state lines for medical care) under Roe v. Wade.

[shauni27]

I am currently at a loss of words. This is infuriating.

[carmenere]

May 8, 2019 10:53:02 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I'm ashamed to say that I avoid following these bullshit bills coming out of bullshit states so I had no fucking idea this particular one goes even more apeshit than the rest. OMG.

Per WOT?* 's post, this could get very messy legally. If WA has jurisdiction over a "murder" committed there but they're like, "Well, we're sane and therefore don't consider this murder," then could they refuse to extradite the resident to GA? And then WTF happens after that?

My guess is these assholes in GA didn't really think this shit through or know this is all so ridiculous and that it will be deemed unconstitutional but just want to grandstand and show that they support life. Fuck these assholes.

And do they also think they can prosecute women who had abortions, or medical providers who performed them, in other places where it's legal, and later moved to Georgia? Because that is way too Handmaid's Tale for me.

[cattledogkisses]

May 8, 2019 12:15:26 GMT -5 smock said:

Remember during the 2016 election when Trump said women should be punished for having abortions, and the uproar was so loud (even on the GOP side) that he had to walk it back? Which he NEVER does?

And now the 8th largest state says women can receive the DEATH PENALTY for getting an abortion.

So pro-life they'll kill ya!

[yaga]

May 8, 2019 10:24:38 GMT -5 suburbanzookeeper said:

I'm still in denial this passed.

"Prosecutors may interrogate women who miscarry to determine whether they can be held responsible; if they find evidence of culpability, they may charge, detain, and try these women for the death of their fetuses."

"Even women who seek lawful abortions out of state may not escape punishment. If a Georgia resident plans to travel elsewhere to obtain an abortion, she may be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, punishable by 10 years’ imprisonment. An individual who helps a woman plan her trip to get an out-of-state abortion, or transports her to the clinic, may also be charged with conspiracy. These individuals, after all, are “conspiring” to end of the life of a “person” with “full legal recognition” under Georgia law."

TW:

I had an ectopic pregnancy a few years ago. About a year later, it was discovered that I had a uterine septum, making it unlikely that I would have been able to carry a pregnancy to term without fixing it. I had the surgery to fix it even though my ex and I decided to stop TTC because I didn't want the increased likelihood of a future loss due to a congenital malformation.

The fact that my doctor said it's possible that the septum caused the initial loss was knowledge I needed at the time. But if I lived in Georgia, I would be terrified right now. Would my medical records absolutely show no evidence or suspicion of the septum prior to my loss? I had weird stuff that showed up on scans that were thought to be nothing, but who fucking knows what a non-medical professional would make out of it. 

[btdt]

May 8, 2019 10:53:02 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

My guess is these assholes in GA didn't really think this shit through or know this is all so ridiculous and that it will be deemed unconstitutional but just want to grandstand and show that they support life. Fuck these assholes.

Oh, they thought about it carefully. They want it to go to SCOTUS. With 2 stolen seats in Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, who knows how they will rule.

And before you dismiss GA as a "bullshit state," keep in mind that the only reason that this bill got signed is because the crooked ass SOS was in charge of his own election for Governor. Were it not for the widespread voter suppression, we'd have Stacey Abrams as governor.

[seeyalater52]

May 8, 2019 10:24:38 GMT -5 suburbanzookeeper said:

I'm still in denial this passed.

"Prosecutors may interrogate women who miscarry to determine whether they can be held responsible; if they find evidence of culpability, they may charge, detain, and try these women for the death of their fetuses."

THESE ASSHOLES. Like women in my position who have had pregnancy losses need this shit on top of everything else they're going through. I've had THREE. At what point does the recurrence of the losses make me look suspicious? Does the fact that I'm clearly very actively trying to get pregnant shield me from that? Or does the fact that IVF would potentially be legally impacted by this law make me even more suspect? 

[btdt]

TMI alert - I'm over 50, but my cycle is still as regular as clockwork. Approaching the big M, I am also very clotty (if that's a word). I'm thinking of taking a picture every month and sending it to every fucking bastard who voted for this, asking if they thinking it's possibly a miscarriage (which there is absolutely zero possibility of, since I'm single and not dating, but they don't need to know that). Motherfuckers want to be all up in my uterus, I'll give them the graphic picture.

Edited to correct a misspelling, brought about because I'm so fucking pissed about this legislation that I can't see straight.

[Velar Fricative]

May 8, 2019 14:49:02 GMT -5 btdt said:

May 8, 2019 10:53:02 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

My guess is these assholes in GA didn't really think this shit through or know this is all so ridiculous and that it will be deemed unconstitutional but just want to grandstand and show that they support life. Fuck these assholes.

Oh, they thought about it carefully. They want it to go to SCOTUS. With 2 stolen seats in Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, who knows how they will rule.

And before you dismiss GA as a "bullshit state," keep in mind that the only reason that this bill got signed is because the crooked ass SOS was in charge of his own election for Governor. Were it not for the widespread voter suppression, we'd have Stacey Abrams as governor.

I know, I’m just so angry that I’m calling even states I like that are doing this bullshit states because I’m just throwing lots of curse words around.

[btdt]

May 8, 2019 15:04:43 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

May 8, 2019 14:49:02 GMT -5 btdt said:

Oh, they thought about it carefully. They want it to go to SCOTUS. With 2 stolen seats in Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, who knows how they will rule.

And before you dismiss GA as a "bullshit state," keep in mind that the only reason that this bill got signed is because the crooked ass SOS was in charge of his own election for Governor. Were it not for the widespread voter suppression, we'd have Stacey Abrams as governor.

I know, I’m just so angry that I’m calling even states I like that are doing this bullshit states because I’m just throwing lots of curse words around.

@@@@@ Righteous anger abounds around here. I live here. My daughters, ages 18 and 20, live here. My nieces, ages 12 and 16 live here. Both of my daughters have chosen to get an IUD, for which I'm rather glad. Now to pay the bill for the younger one, since she needed an ultrasound for a tipped uterus.

[jeaniebueller]

Ohio is considering some really ridiculous bill that will make doctors reimplant an egg from an eptopic into a uterus

www.statenews.org/post/ohio-legislature-considering-abortion-bill-more-restrictive-heartbeat-bill

MIchigan is trying to ban second tri abortions, but our governor has already vowed to veto it and our AG said she will not prosecute violators

www.michiganradio.org/post/state-house-floor-next-stop-pair-anti-abortion-bills

[Velar Fricative]

May 8, 2019 15:13:08 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Ohio is considering some really ridiculous bill that will make doctors reimplant an egg from an eptopic into a uterus

www.statenews.org/post/ohio-legislature-considering-abortion-bill-more-restrictive-heartbeat-bill

MIchigan is trying to ban second tri abortions, but our governor has already vowed to veto it and our AG said she will not prosecute violators

www.michiganradio.org/post/state-house-floor-next-stop-pair-anti-abortion-bills

My first thought was IS THAT EVEN SCIENCE?!? and then I read the article and of course it isn’t. Motherfuckers.

[seeyalater52]

May 8, 2019 15:13:08 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Ohio is considering some really ridiculous bill that will make doctors reimplant an egg from an eptopic into a uterus

www.statenews.org/post/ohio-legislature-considering-abortion-bill-more-restrictive-heartbeat-bill

If there actually was a way to implant embryos into the uterus that didn't attach there on their own that would be a fucking game changer for so many people. I'm a basket case because just thinking about it makes me cry. 

But here we are, in the world of actual available science and medicine, in which that is very much NOT a thing. I mean, Jesus fucking Christ. 

[wambam]

May 8, 2019 15:13:08 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Ohio is considering some really ridiculous bill that will make doctors reimplant an egg from an eptopic into a uterus

“When you get into the contraception and abortifacients, that’s clearly not my area of expertise but I suppose, if it were true that what we typically known as the pill would be classified as an abortifacient, then I would imagine the drug manufacturers would reformulate it so it’s no longer an abortifacient and is strictly a contraceptive,"

Oh yeah, NBD. Pharmaceutical companies will have this figured out by next Thursday. /s

[cattledogkisses]

May 8, 2019 15:16:16 GMT -5 wambam said:

May 8, 2019 15:13:08 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Ohio is considering some really ridiculous bill that will make doctors reimplant an egg from an eptopic into a uterus

“When you get into the contraception and abortifacients, that’s clearly not my area of expertise but I suppose, if it were true that what we typically known as the pill would be classified as an abortifacient, then I would imagine the drug manufacturers would reformulate it so it’s no longer an abortifacient and is strictly a contraceptive,"

Oh yeah, NBD. Pharmaceutical companies will have this figured out by next Thursday. /s

He should have just stopped here.

Are we really still trying to prove that birth control pills don't cause abortions?  JFC.  It says right on the package inserts that they won't end an existing pregnancy. 

[wambam]

May 8, 2019 15:33:48 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

May 8, 2019 15:16:16 GMT -5 wambam said:

Oh yeah, NBD. Pharmaceutical companies will have this figured out by next Thursday. /s

He should have just stopped here.

Are we really still trying to prove that birth control pills don't cause abortions?  JFC.  It says right on the package inserts that they won't end an existing pregnancy. 

The pro-birth folks will continue to beat their (entirely false) drum that hormonal contraceptives can prevent a fertilized egg from implanting and that's an abortion. Even though it's not. But they like to rewrite definitions to suit their agenda. 

[goldengirlz]

May 8, 2019 15:16:16 GMT -5 wambam said:

May 8, 2019 15:13:08 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Ohio is considering some really ridiculous bill that will make doctors reimplant an egg from an eptopic into a uterus

“When you get into the contraception and abortifacients, that’s clearly not my area of expertise but I suppose, if it were true that what we typically known as the pill would be classified as an abortifacient, then I would imagine the drug manufacturers would reformulate it so it’s no longer an abortifacient and is strictly a contraceptive,"

Oh yeah, NBD. Pharmaceutical companies will have this figured out by next Thursday. /s

No shit to the bolded. If you’re going to ruin millions of lives, maybe you at least want to know what you’re talking about? Because you sound like a fucking idiot, John.