Concerned about my preschooler

[redpanda]

My daughter is 3 and will be turning 4 in a few months. Her behavior lately has me worried that there is something seriously wrong. I am so concerned and am wondering if I should make an appointment with a child psychologist. Please tell me if you think this behavior seems within the normal range or if these could be the early signs of some type of disorder.

Our biggest issue are meltdowns/fits/tantrums. On average, she has one per day. (I am not counting smaller fits that last less than a few minutes and are not violent. She may have a few of these smaller fits each day.) Lately, probably for the last month, there have been some new behaviors during these meltdowns that make me worried. She has started behaving violently towards me and my husband, as well as trying to destroy things, during these meltdowns.

One particularly bad fit happened at the grocery store the other day. She did not want to get out of the car after we parked. I tried to persuade her, then said I was going to count to 3 and if she wasn't out of the car, I would take her out myself. She didn't get out of the car, so I had to physically remove her. She then sat on the ground in the parking lot, refusing to move. I said that if she cannot walk in the store and behave, we wouldn't be able to ride the mechanical horse that they have there, which we always do after we check out. She didn't respond. Finally, I picked her up to bring her inside the store. The entire time I am carrying her, she is trying to kick, hit, scratch, and bite me. I have to hold her in a contorted position to prevent her from hurting me. We go inside the store, and she continues acting like this. I bring her to a quiet corner of the store and tell her we are going to wait for her to calm down. She refuses to stay there and tries to run away. I have to continually bring her back. She then tries to kick, hit, scratch, and bite me as I am trying to keep her in the corner. This lasts about 15 minutes. She does not relent nor calm down. She is completely beside herself and unable to be reasoned with or even hear any words I am saying. I am having to hold her wrists like they are in handcuffs at arms length away from me so that she cannot hurt me. Finally, I pick her up and say we have to leave the store. The entire way out, she is still trying to kick, hit, scratch, and bite, and so I have to carry her in a contorted position on the way out because I'm trying to restrain her arms and legs and keep her face away from me. After I buckle her in her seat and have driven away, she finally calms down.

I've never witnessed any kids acting the way she did at the store. She's been doing this more and more often during tantrums lately. At home, we sometimes try time-outs in her room and lock her in there since she will not stay in on her own. (Is this terrible?) She has started banging on the door and peeing on the carpet in her room whenever we do this. A few times when we did not lock her in her room during a fit, she started banging on a random door in our house because she now knows I don't like her banging on doors. On two separate occasions this month, she tore apart pages in her books during fits. She now does not have free access to her books.

Here are a few other factors at play:
- These tantrums typically happen during a transition. For instance, arriving at a store or coming home after being out.
- They are also much more likely to happen when she has to use the bathroom. She has been potty trained for almost two years, but she absolutely refuses to try and waits until the last second before going. She only pees twice per day usually - once at nap time and once at bedtime. I think one reason she acts out is because she is so uncomfortable from holding her pee for so long. We've tried everything to get her to go more often, but ultimately this is something she can control.

When she is not in the midst of a tantrum, she can be a wonderful, happy, loving, playful child. She is not hyperactive. She does not have problems at preschool, other than being uncooperative for the first 30 minutes because she doesn't like drop off. I do feel like she is an intense, spirited, stubborn child. I am worried there is more going on. I know I'm likely making some parenting mistakes, too. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this and am open to suggestions. Thank you for reading this long post.

[VillainV]

I can tell that you are at your wits end here.

I have a sample size of 1, but what you describe sounds really similar to what we went through at 3, which was C’s most challenging year so far. For us 4 was much better, but for some kids that change seems to happen closer to 5. It seems that this was due to C wanting independence but simply lacking the ability to actually act independently, combined with a lack of verbal skills to describe his feelings, and a complete inability to cope with really strong emotions.

I’ll share a few things that helped just in case they might help you too.

First, everything became ten times worse when he was tired or hungry, so we had to stay really on top of having snacks for him and providing opportunities for rest (even if he didn’t nap). Protein helped — cheese sticks, yogurt, lunch meat.

Second, we worked really hard at this stage to name emotions and help him identify what he was feeling. We got him consistently saying “I’m angry” or “I’m scared” or whatever, then helping him work through what caused that emotion. It was usually anger, and we spent a good amount of time talking about how it’s okay to feel angry, but not okay to hit/scratch/bite, etc.

Third, we used timers for transitions. He understood numbers at that point, so a visual timer was really helpful. We used iPhones mostly, but also the microwave or Alexa or whatever. We usually started at 10 and gave reminders at 5, 3, and 1. Knowing what was going to happen in advance (even the whole weekend day itinerary) seemed to help him a lot. We also gave him some ability to control activities (pick which game we would play, etc).

Timeouts sucked at that age, and honestly they never really worked well so we mostly stopped doing them in favor of major praise for good behavior instead. I am saying this with kindness and love, but I think it’s time to stop locking her in her room. We struggled with this at that age, and decided that pushing 4 was too old for us to justify it anymore. I think in your case, it is the cause of a power struggle that results in some of the violent lash outs and the urination. I hope some others are able to provide suggestions that might work, but I think you might want to try something different for a while since time outs don’t seem to be working.

Despite all I have written, trust your mom gut, and if you feel something is wrong, you should absolutely talk to your doctor and see about getting in with a psychologist or child behaviorist. You know your child best.

[minzy]

I’d set up a consult with a child behavioral psychologist. We were in your shoes with our younger daughter’s horrific tantrums and did just that around age four. We only saw the psychologist a handful of times. Those visits, plus the passage of time, reduced the tantrums tremendously. She is nearly six now and life is so much easier, she would go months at a time without a tantrum (though they’re creeping back in a little with her being out of the school routine for the summer). She is a great kid and I again truly enjoy her now.

My main takeaway from the therapy was that she valued my attention, whether good or bad. So if I’d physically remove her to her room and say “let’s not do that, I will wait for you to be calm so you can rejoin the group,” it was still the attention she wanted from me, almost like praise would be. So I began completely ignoring her when she acted up. I remember one episode while she writhed around screaming on the floor and crawled over to try to touch my foot. I just moved away and ignored, ignored. She hated that. It was very challenging to go through the first few tantrums after I switched my approach, but it was effective pretty quickly in getting the behavior to change.

My sister is also dealing with some rage episodes from my otherwise delightful four year old nephew in therapy. He just made a “calm down bottle” last week... tbd if it works.

Hang in there. I know how extraordinarily frustrating this can be. You are not alone, but you are where we were when we decided to seek outside help.

[zarapipe]

My dd is 9 now but I remember her always being difficult and always throwing fits. Transitions were the absolute worst. If she couldn’t understand what we were doing or if plans got changed she would have a meltdown. Ultimately she ended up being diagnosed with anxiety and through therapy and meds is a completely different kid, but we didn’t start down that road until she was 7. I always knew, even at 2-3 years old that her behavior was different.

Ditto pp that timeouts really don’t work well for us either, with either kid. I also have a 4 year old. One thing that works with both our kids is that when they want something, a show, to go outside, etc. that is when I ask them to do X. To do fun things they need to do their chores. In your case I wonder if you could have that be the bathroom. “We can’t do/see/go X until you use the bathroom”. It will still be her choice but she willl realize she is missing out on something by not going.

[mainelyfoolish]

That is a tough age. People say “terrible twos” but I thought age three was much harder to deal with in both of my children (who are now elementary school age).

A lot of what you wrote reminds me of how my DD behaved at that age. She had tantrums that wouldn’t stop. Kicking, screaming, throwing things, damaging objects. As a preschooler, I did have to lock her in her room to enforce an afternoon quiet/rest time because otherwise she would just get up and leave every few minutes (and I really needed the break, too). We also kept her in a buckled booster seat at the dining table long after most kids use the buckles because otherwise she would constantly get up and leave during a meal. She also had more than typical difficulty following the rules at her preschool. Nothing seemed to change her unwanted behaviors - timeouts, loss of privileges, sensory/wiggle breaks, praise for good behavior.

At age five, DD was diagnosed with ADHD (combined type) and a lot of her behaviors started to make sense - the difficulty with impulse control and executive functioning meant that she literally couldn’t learn (or rather, access the information in her brain) that screaming and hitting doesn’t help her get what she wants. The hyperactivity part of her brain was keeping her from staying in her room or sitting in a chair, even if she knew there would be unwanted consequences for failing to do so.

I obviously can’t tell if your child’s behaviors rise to this level, but I wanted to give you a little hope from the other side of the preschool years that even if there is something going on that is beyond typical, it can be handled. Medication had made a world of difference for my DD.

[SusanBAnthony]

Based on my sister (who was diagnosed as an adult with some stuff, but 30 years ago no one was looking for hose things) and my kid, I'd say yes I think I'd be contacting a professional to help you through this.

Some tantrums are of course normal but I think this rises to the level of at least looking into it more.

Is she bribe-able? The pee thing is definitely something I would bribe the shit out of.

Also keep in mind many children's mental health concerns are significantly biased towards boys (fuck the patriarchy!). So try to look for girl specific examples if you are googling. If a dr says "oh she doesn't quite fit _____" make sure you do some research on girls specifically and how they present.

[sent]

I have no professional experience with this kind of behavior, but have you tried avoiding the triggers? For example, if we saw DD was headed to tantrum mode, we'd avoid that activity. There was a period from age 3 - 4 when I couldn't leave DD at home with my husband without her melting down. So I wouldn't go anywhere. Or even if I wanted to take her somewhere her presence wasn't critical like the grocery store, and she'd be on the verge of going into tantrum, we'd stay home. The only things she'd let me do without a meltdown was go to work or "mommy has a doctor's appointment." So in your case, I'd avoid transitions and see if that decreases the frequencies. In the situation you described, if it wasn't essential to go to the grocery store, I'd have turned the car around and went home (I actually remember doing that a few times with DD). For us that meant going to the grocery store after she was asleep or sending my husband, or sometimes having all of us go together.

The tantrums we couldn't control were similar to what you described, when she had to pee or was hungry. We'd try to keep on top of her and make her eat and pee, but if we forgot and she got hungry, she'd become a little hellion. I remember she peed on the carpet right before the guests came over on her 3rd birthday. The last tantrum I remember before she finally outgrew this phase, I had to force her down on the toilet while she was waling and she finally peed.

She refused to be bribed and didn't understand the concept of a timeout. Since I couldn't use those things to influence her, we just stayed home a lot. If we had to go somewhere like a birthday party, we'd talk about it well in advance so she knew that activity was on the horizon and was more amenable to attending it on the day of the party. At all other times she was sweet and kind. Absolutely no issues when she was at preschool.

[cricketwife]

I have a friend with a three year old and we were just talking about this the other day. She’s going through this now. My son is now 5 but I told her at that age, I was in tears almost every day. I was worried we were raising a criminal. Now he’s definitely not perfect (see my post from the other day, lol) but it’s NOTHING like it was. I also have another friend who’s son is 9 months older than my DS and she went through the same thing. Perhaps this is me just being unobjective, but I’d say her son was worse than mine. They sought out the help of a therapist. Again, I’m biased, but I don’t think in his case it made much of a difference. I think both our kids just grew out of it. However, I think his mom really felt encouraged and empowered by the therapy so I’m not saying it was without benefit.

I think I’ve blocked out most of that time period, but I do remember doing sort of a time in, when he was that upset. I would just stay with him. “I see you’re upset/angry/sad/whatever. Can I hug you? I’m going to stay with you because I don’t want to leave you alone with these big feelings”. He would continue to tantrum, often hit me, but eventually he would calm down and let me hold him.

In our case, we absolutely had to be sure that he had some protein in him as soon as he woke up. This was not a magic bullet but things were way worse otherwise.

Also, this is NOT a criticism of how you handled it with your daughter, but I think many parents would not have taken their child into the store in that scenario so I think that contributes not seeing that situation with others. Also, I don’t think our brains process it the same way prior to experiencing things ourselves. I feel like I’ve seen this scenario with other parents/children more now that I’m on the other side because I see them and remember and empathize. At the time I remember also feeling like I’d never seen a child behave as badly as mine.

I also agree with not giving any attention to the negative behavior but it is HARD. I struggled with that especially because he was often hitting me or throwing things, etc. Our pedi advised ignoring it - he had a full on meltdown when we were there once. That was fun. We used to call them nuclear meltdowns .

[mmmomof2]

Besides what has been mentioned - I would consider an elimination diet with a food journal. Some kids have terrible reactions from food dyes or food intolerances.

[redpenmama]

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. My oldest (now 8) is strong willed and spirited, and she presented very similar challenges at 3. Three was absolutely the hardest age with her (and she was an impossible newborn, too) -- I could have skipped over her third year and not missed out on much, to be honest. We did not seek any intervention, although looking back, I think we could have benefitted from it.

Transitions were her trigger as well. I avoided them as much as I could at that age. I also had a baby, and it was physically challenging to carry him out of a place on one hip and her kicking and screaming on another. Some things I did find that helped (in some instances): setting a timer so she knew when we had to leave and bribing her for leaving places without a tantrum (like, if you leave willingly this week, we can go to the Dollar Store and pick out a toy). Now, these only worked before she was losing it. If she got to the point that your daughter was at, all bets were off, and there was no way she could recover.

So, I think this is normal to some extent and strong-willed kids just have tantrums beyond the average kid. I have two other children (5 and 2) who have never had a tantrum like my oldest. But, it's also stressful and overwhelming, and you don't have to just accept it and live like this for the next year or so. Even if she may outgrow it eventually, getting some outside help might make things more bearable for both of you. I probably should have done the same when my daughter was that age.

[statlerwaldorf]

I would make an appointment with a child psychiatrist. DD1 sees one and I think it would be helpful even if there isn’t something medically wrong.

My older two definitely still had bad tantrums at that age. One has a mood processing disorder and the other does not. One of my younger ones has a sensory processing disorder that makes transitions difficult and play therapy helped him a lot.

I had a very similar situation right down to losing the privilege of riding the damn horse at Meijer when DD1 was that age. It was so bad that I left my cart and carried her out of the store screaming.

The thing that’s concerning to me is the violence. I haven’t had any of them act out violently except the one with the mood processing disorder, but she didn’t turn violent until she was much older.

Can you start rewarding her for going to the bathroom? Maybe start using m&ms or something.

[noodleoo]

Honestly, I’d make the appointment to discuss with your pedi. What you describe sounds so difficult and I think it would help to discuss with a professional to reassure yourself either way. That being said, age 3-4 was harder than I expected. I agree with PP that you are kind of prepped for kids to be difficult at age 2 and even 3, but I kind of thought it would be better by 4. Not true for us (and then someone told me they call them the fucking fours, which I hadn’t heard before 😩). So it could be normal, but I think in your case given the violence and bladder issues, it is worth getting a professional opinion.

[Deleted]

If it makes you feel better my kids have definitely acted like that in public and I’ve carried kicking/scratching/biting kids away from the situation also feeling like I never see other kids doing this. Believe me other kids are doing this, but it’s not super common in any given public space at any time so you probably won’t see it very often if that makes sense. Time will help mostly. And since it sounds like she has a very strong desire to have some control, I think you’ve got to give her more control over her life. She won’t get out of the car? You sit there ignoring her until she’s ready (and trust when I say I know how irritating that is my now 7.5 year old has a phase where he wouldn’t get buckled in the car so we sat and waited in silence until he would.

I have also found that physically restraining my kids usually made the whole thing way worse. That’s not to say I didn’t do it (and relatively often with one of them out of necessity (or what felt like necessity), but it almost always made the situation blow up more. She’s running away in the store? Let her. But keep an eye on the situation from afar without her knowing. Once I let my DS actually run away from me in the store and “get lost” he got so scared he’s never done it again.

It also sounds like you give her a lot of attention during these outbursts which is probably why they last so long and occur often (also because 3 and 4 year olds do this). I would heap on the effusive praise when she’s acting how you want her to and ignore as much as you can (like completely ignore, no eye contact, no talking, no physical touch, nothing) these behaviors you don’t like. So hard. It will get better with time. Now my kids are 13, 10, and 7 and it feels like so long ago that they would do these things.

[waverly]

I would ask my pedi. Some can brush off concerns but you should also be able to see a counselor without a referral. I can’t say what is normal or if there is anything diagnosable, but if you feel you need some additional help with the behavior that generally is a good thing to seek out.

My kids never acted out that way. They have other issues for example DS is extremely flaky, but we don’t personally have experience with the epic tantrums, just more the smaller tantrums. I’ve definitely carried them out of places with them struggling though and that is fairly normal.

[lolo]

Her behavior sounds similar to my daughter's at that age. She would throw things at us and have really big meltdowns. It was extremely hard.

I found Janet Lansbury (RIE) and Robin Einsing (Visible Child) to be the most helpful at this age. You might also like Alfie John, Unconditional Parenting. And Whole Brain Child has some good stuff. For example, when you say you can't reason with her when she's melting down, that's really normal, and Whole Brain Child talks about why and how you can support them in moving to the more logical reasoning part of the brain.

Things that helped here:
1) Reframing her behavior. When I described mine like you do--stubborn, strong-willed, etc--it set me up in opposition to her. I had to start seeing her behavior as saying 'I need help! This thing is too hard for me! I'm overwhelmed and scared and don't know what to do!'

You could find a visual or a mantra that works to help you stay calm and view your role as helping her. Two that helped were Janet's visual of being the anchor in her storm and Robin's saying that, 'She's not giving you a hard time; she's having a hard time.'

Janet also talks a lot about using confident momentum, which I think could be helpful for you with transitions.

2) Keep a log, even if informal, of when these happen. It can help to identify and reduce triggers. You seem to have identified that it's transition-related. Now you can think about how to support her in those moments. You mentioned it happens when she gets home--I brought a car snack to daycare pick up at this age and it reduced these meltdowns by at least 50%. I also just mentally fortified myself.

I would think about if I can cut out some things that are hard for her. If I as an adult was finding something about my life so challenging that I was crying and feeling overwhelmed every day, I would be doing that, so extend her the same courtesy. Maybe it's too much right now for her to go to the store after a day at school, for example.

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more. 3.5-4.5 was absolutely the hardest over here. And Robin actually says that 3.5 is the most common age when parents reach out to her. It's hard for us and it's hard for them!

ETA: You might also take the highly sensitive child quiz and, if that resonates, there are some good strategies in that book.

[kate1482]

Can you go ahead and make an appointment with a psychologist? Maybe email your pediatrician for a recommendation? We struggled with 40+ minute tantrums since dd was 18 months old. We started going last summer when she was 3.5. It was such a relief to hear that the intensity/frequency/length of her tantrums were not within the normal range. We worked through PCIT and my dd loved our weekly ‘dates’ to the feelings doctor. It was invaluable to ME having someone to talk to about her behavior and come up with different strategies to try. I don’t think I would have made it without the weekly support. ETA- dd is still an intense child and we still struggle with behavior but it is a million times better then before.

[ladyfern]

I would suggest an occupational therapy evaluation as well to look at sensory concerns. If she is getting overwhelmed with the transitions, she just might not have the capacity to deal with it in a way other than the negative behaviors. They would likely also be able to help you work on potty related things and the holding her pee could be a sensory thing too. I would definitely touch base with her pediatrician about her pee holding. they may want to rule out a UTI and she is at higher risk for developing one from holding her pee for so long so they probably would want to keep an eye on that

[redpanda]

I'm reading your compassionate replies with tears in my eyes.  I'm so touched by everyone's advice and support.  I will take a more thorough look at them and reply more specifically later tonight.  But I want you to know I'm reading them!

[momin2013]

I agree with discussing with the pedi. This sounds just like my younger cousin, who ending up being sensitive to dairy. Once dairy was eliminated, she was like a totally different kid. It’s something you can keep an eye on in the meantime fairly easily; keep a journal of what she eats and drinks, also taking note of when she has these outbursts, and see if you’re able to find a link.

[redpanda]

VillainV  - Completely relate to the fact that things are ten times worse if she's tired or hungry (or has to go to the bathroom). And I agree that we need to stop locking her in her room. Any type of physical restraint seems to make her lash out more. It sounds like your son has gotten better has he has gotten older and as you have fine-tuned your parenting strategies, which makes me hopeful.

minzy  - It's interesting to hear that seeing a psychologist was helpful in your case. I am trying to ignore her more and act "unruffled." So hard to do if she is physically trying to come after me, though. Now that it is nice outside, I have had some success saying "Hmm, I think I'm going to go outside and enjoy the nice day" in the middle of a tantrum. She doesn't chase me that far, and usually calms down by the time she makes it outside.

zarapipe , - I like your strategy of "we can't do X until you use the potty." I actually started doing that over the past few days with tv watching in the morning. It was successful both times I tried it! I've done it before in the past, but I think she used to be even more anxious about the potty, and so she would be willing to give up almost anything to not go. Another mistake I made in the past is that I would do this when I knew she hadn't gone for hours, and so she was probably already really uncomfortable and then just unwilling to do anything. I'm so glad this strategy has worked these past two days, and I hope it continues to.

[redpanda]

mainelyfoolish - Thanks for sharing your experience with your daughter. My daughter doesn't typically have problems staying in her room/seat - it's only during these rage tantrums. But it's so good to know that there is hope from someone on the other side of the preschool years.

SusanBAnthony  - Yes, I think we will reach out to a child psychologist and see what they think.
She can be bribe-able if we catch her before she's too far gone. If we're already in the midst of a power struggle, bribes don't work. If she has to pee too badly or is too tired or too hungry, then bribes don't work. I'm coming around to bribes, though, after really trying not to go that route before. Whatever works at this point.

sent - These past two days we have not had to go anywhere. Her behavior has been better - no meltdowns these past two days. I think she gets really stressed out from school and camp and it affects the rest of her day. I've been making a big effort these past two days, too, to try to avoid triggers. If I am hyper-vigilant on avoiding triggers and trying to think ahead to ease transitions, she does much better. But I can't let myself relax for one minute. I always have to think ahead about how she will react to every step in our day. I'm so glad to hear this was only a phase for your daughter and that she grew out of this.

[SusanBAnthony]

So this might sound stupid, but I'd totally give her an m&m every hour. Just make it a thing where at the top of every hour (set a phone alarm) it is the routine to try. Or else every time you transition activities.

Just based on internet descriptions, sensory processing is where my head went. If something like the buzzing florescent lights in the store drive her up a wall, maybe she just can't go for now. Or maybe she can handle it first thing in the morning when she has just peed lol.

I know for my daughter, she is similar in that once she is upset, there is no reasoning with her and no hurrying her through the processing of feelings. Trust me, we've tried!

Another thought- lock yourself in your room rather than locking her in. If she comes and bangs on your door, calmly tell her"I can't let you hurt me. I shut myself in my room to keep myself safe. I will come out when you are done hitting. It's my job as a parent to keep everyone in this house safe". That worked well for us. You keep yourself safe, teach them it's not ok to hurt people, and take away their righteous indignation about being locked in their room.

[SusanBAnthony]

And just because she's benefit from a psychiatrist or psychologist appointment doesn't mean she has anything nuero-atypical.
I know people with similar concerns who were advised that they had bright, intense, challenging kids, got some parenting tips for how to deal with it, and their kid outgrew the stage!

[redpanda]

ladyfern , SusanBAnthony , and statlerwaldorf - It's so interesting that you alluded to sensory issues. She definitely has sensory issues. She doesn't like loud noises and is more scared of the dark than the average child. We also have major problems when the seasons change and we need to change her wardrobe. Switching from long sleeves to short sleeves and pants to shorts is a big deal. She cannot handle any weird collars or ruffles. She freaked out the first few times we put on sunscreen this summer. Once she gets used to a new sensation, she does fine with it.

[geppiegirl]

This is so spot on to my DS's behavior during the 3.5 - 4yo range.
DS's behavior progressively escalated to including physical acts toward us, biting and hitting himself, physical acts and defiance toward his teachers and physical issues in interacting with his friends at daycare.
We were at our wits end and pretty much thought he might be a psychopath or stab us in our sleep.
He was on the cusp of getting kicked out of his preschool (which we eventually pulled him from for other reasons).
We had his pediatrician look him over to make sure nothing physical was going on. Then got referrals for a specialist evaluation.
The waitlist for the child psych evaluation was 3 months . . lord those were terrible months of waiting.
We also had.an OT evaluation which revealed some fine motor skill and gross motor skill issues - the frustrations from which were not helping his tantrums/behaviors/etc.
Transitions were SUPER HARD for him (and still can be).
Eventually we went through PCIT therapy - where the therapists actually watched me and my husband interact with DS (we wore those mics and there was a 2 way mirror and everything). It is mastery based. The first half (about 3 months) was all about building up DS's self confidences and bond with us, then the last half was about implementing house rules and a very sequenced and certain time out structure that we do both at home AND if we are out anywhere. Our therapists even took us through an off-site excursion (grocery store) to make sure we knew how to do it.
It helped dramatically. Like epically really.
We still do special time and time outs as needed. And he still has flare ups - usually if he is overstimulated, overtired, or hungry (those are his triggers) - but I have more hope for the future and we have much better quality time together with him and as a family.
Wishing you luck with this as it is so extremely stressful and consuming.

[kate1482]

Jun 30, 2019 21:04:58 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

And just because she's benefit from a psychiatrist or psychologist appointment doesn't mean she has anything nuero-atypical.
I know people with similar concerns who were advised that they had bright, intense, challenging kids, got some parenting tips for how to deal with it, and their kid outgrew the stage!

Yes! Absolutely. Even though we went to see a psychologist it doesn’t mean there was anything nuero-atypical going on with dd. I received so many parenting tips/support to deal with my dd’s behavior. It made me feel not so alone and hopeful for the future!

[lilac05]

First of all, it’s all going to be OK. Whether it’s a phase, typical or atypical, diagnosable or not, it’s so clear that you love your daughter and want to help her. You’re obviously out of “tricks”, but instead of resorting to anger or just wishing this phase away, you’re thinking more about it, asking for help, and looking into asking for professional help. You’re doing a great job.

With any behaviors, everything boils down to frequency, intensity, and duration. Without any of us seeing what your daughter is like, we can’t say “my child did that, too”. It’s hard to really describe, but professionals can tease out the differences. I think getting some professional help is a great idea. It seems your mom-gut is telling you that you need to at least turn that stone over, and I firmly believe you should never doubt your mom-gut. It’s rarely wrong. Regardless of any diagnosis, the right professional can give you tips and tricks to help your situation.

Given your description of sensory issues, I’d make occupational therapy your first phone call. They are generally well-trained in sensory processing, but most also have training/experience with behavior management and transitions. They generally have a shorter waitlist, and I have seen some really amazing changes come from kids working with an OT!

[IndiaInk]

It might be a phase, it might be typical or atypical for her developmental stage. It’s hard to say, but I too recommend seeing a developmental psychologist if you are at your wits end. She sounds a lot like my daughter at that age. She got diagnosed this week at age 5, with ADHD and honestly it’s a relief to know I’m not just bad at parenting but that we have some different things to work on and we are not alone.
Three was really, really hard for my daughter and my heart goes out to you. It does get a lot better at age four and five, I promise!!

[pittpurple]

Jun 30, 2019 22:03:33 GMT -5 redpanda said:

ladyfern , SusanBAnthony , and statlerwaldorf - It's so interesting that you alluded to sensory issues. She definitely has sensory issues. She doesn't like loud noises and is more scared of the dark than the average child. We also have major problems when the seasons change and we need to change her wardrobe. Switching from long sleeves to short sleeves and pants to shorts is a big deal. She cannot handle any weird collars or ruffles. She freaked out the first few times we put on sunscreen this summer. Once she gets used to a new sensation, she does fine with it.

All of this sounds so, so familiar. My daughter is 6.5 now and we are 'mostly' past the worst of it (I hope so anyway!) but 4-5 were rough. She got a sibling at 3.5 and I don't think that helped, but that didn't explain it all.

She would hold her pee in for hours and hours. Long enough that we once had to go to the doctor. He said that she should go 4 times a day minimum (after waking up, sometime around snack, sometime around lunch, sometime around dinner at least) so we would just structure around that - 'oh, go pee before snack' etc. Having consistent times for things was really helpful. 

My daughter has now been diagnosed as highly sensitive with some social anxiety and sensory processing challenges. She'll only wear certain clothes, can't go anywhere super crowded or loud and surprises are really awful. She still won't put her face in the water so can't swim but we're working on it.

It all got a lot easier for us at 6. She started school at 4 (I live in Scotland) so getting into a new routine, having a group of friends, knowing what to expect - these are all really helpful for her. I like to prep her the day before for everything - 'So daddy will take you to daycare and then you'll go to school and i'll pick you up and your friend is coming round for dinner and then it's daddy's turn to read you a story'. We often set out clothes the night before and pack her snack and stuff so there's fewer and fewer surprises. She did ask a couple times (and we never got around to it) to have a chart for morning and evenings so she knew exactly what to do - brush teeth, comb hair, get dressed, etc. I think we're past needing it now but maybe if you make everything else in your life really achievable the rest will settle a bit better.