July Money post

[waverly]

I am listening to the podcast How to Money, and they are talking about the importance of talking about money among their friends. No specific agenda or questions here, just throwing it out there.  They suggest talking in percentages so things can be more even.  I'll post more if I can think of something more specific. 

[mellym]

In what context? Like, we spend xx% on food? I don't think we have ever talked about it amongst friends. The only thing that I can recall coming up and sharing is how much we spend on daycare. And that became an awkward conversation about how much we spend on it.

[waverly]

We talked about money on this board in the past. I had asked if we wanted to do a periodic money thread and people seemed open to it, so that is what this one is. Re-reading my post that is totally not clear. Any topic that people want to discuss is game.

In terms of talking about it with my friends I agree it gets awkward fast, but it is kind of worth it if you need help or a measuring stick. We've talked about retirement, pensions and also the cost of daycare. We spend so much money in daycare- that is kind of crazy. Not as much anymore because they are school age. We've talked about houses and condos losing money in the recession and how they disliked being a landlord and were eventually able to sell. We've talked about the price of home renovations.

[twinmomma]

I never talk money among my friends unless it's a really general conversation about something like student loans sucking or something. I have given some friends tips on general budgeting/saving things that work for me.

I know that I make significantly more than all of them so it just gets awkward fast. My close friends are teachers and artists. None of my friends know just how much I make, I feel weird disclosing that. I don't think anyone would care, I just feel bad. Which in turn means when I talk about how expensive daycare + mortgage, etc is, it's obvious I make a ton more since I can afford those expenses. So I avoid it.

[rere]

We were raised to not discuss money with others. We talk about saving for retirement or college or the cost of things, but never put a number to it.

I wish people could talk openly or honestly about it, because every once in a while, I look at Dh and say, we are doing something wrong.

[sandandsea]

I love this idea. Way back in the day the money matters board was amazing at this stuff. I learned a ton from the women on here about savings, retirement, investing, 529s, budgeting etc. it was very helpful and some of the women were major #goals.

I can start with some questions.

Do you and your spouse see eye to eye on money?

Is one of you a saver and one a spender?

How do you reconcile your money tendency differences?

[mommyatty]

I make an epic shitload more than any of my friends or family. I actively hide how much I make because of that. (This says far more about just how poor I started out than how rich I am now, btw.) A good example. My mother was bragging about how rich my stepbrother is and how much he “pulled down” one year a few years ago. He made less than one of my annual bonuses.

Like rere, I often think we are doing something wrong because it seems like we should have a lot more than we do. But I’m so grateful for what we have.

[sandandsea]

I don’t talk about it IRL because it’s awkward and I’m not comfortable discussing numbers with people because there is always so much judgment.


To answer my own questions.

We pretty much see eye to eye on it. We both like the security of savings and are great at delayed pleasure for bigger goals. He’s more comfortable spending money though while it stresses me out at times.

Dh is a splurger (saves up and then readily buys expensive things) while I’m a saver.

As long as we are saving $x a month and have our long term investments and savings in place I can relax about his splurges. Because really we are doing fine and aren’t ever going negative. I just need to remind myself to chill out a bit because he’s responsible and not doing anything crazy in terms of percentages.

[covergirl82]

Do you and your spouse see eye to eye on money?
We are pretty close. We agree to live within our means and work on paying off debt when we get extra money (e.g., bonuses, pay increases).

Is one of you a saver and one a spender?
I tend to spend more than DH on "extras" like clothes (ETA: clothes that are a "want" and not a "need"), books, etc. But DH spends more than I do on buying lunches at work and small purchases like that that add up. We both recognize we probably spend more than we should in each of our areas, and we're working on spending less.

How do you reconcile your money tendency differences?
DH and I generally are good about discussing and not arguing about differences. We talk through how we're going to adjust our spending and try to keep each other accountable in a supportive way. Although I've gotten irritated at DH for using the ATM at his bowling league and being charged $3, instead of stopping at the ATM at our credit union that is right on his way to bowling.

[sdlaura]

We live in an area and socialize with people that all seem to have a lot of money. Our parents are comfortable now due to pensions and social security, but neither DH nor I grew up in these circles. We save a lot for retirement and it seems like a lot of other people we know expect to inherit money so they don't. So it feels like we make a lot less than we do. Plus spending like $60k a year on childcare...

DH is the saver and I'm the spender (not really, just relative to him), but we generally see eye to eye. U think he thinks about money a little too much - like constantly recalculating our net worth

[dragon's breath]

I only kinda-sorta talk about money with two of my non-work friends (both guys). One is retired military and I used to work around the other one until I changed jobs a few years ago, but we still keep in touch.

However, my work crew actually seems to talk about it quite a bit, both in general and sometimes with our own situations and actual numbers. Part of the reason for the openness is that we know exactly what each other makes (there are two position titles within our crew-- they have different duties and responsibilities, so different pay, but everyone with the same position title makes exactly the same wage, there are no steps.)

It's actually really nice to be able to talk with coworkers (some of them hang out together as friends outside of work, and I've been friends with one of the guys and his wife since high school). If someone says they are putting 10% into TSP, you know exactly how much that is.

We are able to talk about which funds we put our money in, and talk about why (one of these conversations many years ago made me realize I needed to move money out of the "G fund". I knew I wanted to max, and I had, but outside of that, I was clueless).

I helped one guy understand better how our retirement system really works (he had some misinformation), and he realized he could retire six years earlier than he thought, because the "penalty" he had been told he'd have if he retired before 62, didn't exist.

Another one of our guys worked there for 16 years, and only realized after one of our work conversations that he had a pension! I don't know how he got through that long not knowing that, but it took a huge load of worry off of his mind, because it instantly gave him a whole new pot of money he didn't know about.

I enjoy discussing budgets and ways to save and how to prioritize savings, etc, but it's hard to get into my personal numbers too much. I've found, over the years, that even though I'm younger, and the only single parent, I'm actually one of the few without a bunch of debt, as well as having a "healthier" TSP balance. And I'm in the lower paid position (difference is over $10/hour). It's interesting to see how each person handles things so differently.

As for the spouse questions asked, I don't have one and I don't date.  When I was married, I was definitely the saver, and there was a lot of friction over money issues.

[rere]

mommyatty, I too do not disclose how much money we actually have, which is not a ton. Because, my mom knows what my brother makes, or at least knows he does well in her terms and she is always talking about how he can afford to do things she wants to him to do , like stick him with her half the bill on vacation, or demand that they fly the kids in yearly to visit her. She owes my other brother a ton of money. My suspicion is that some of the money he received when dad died, she borrowed. He still lives there. I play very poor. If she knew the cash I had in savings (anything in savings is a novelty in her book), or how much we had for college (not enough, but more than 0, which is what I had), she would have been hitting us up for money.


We are sort of on the same page. DH is definitely the spender. In some ways. He will balk at buying a roast for $12, but doesn't understand the push back for a $35000 vehicle. And he spends money on drinks and food, every day. I buy my stuff at the grocery and bring it to work, saving money. He would have never set up college savings, or maxed out retirement, or payed extra on the house without me, and pushed back on each one, but now is glad we did it. He gets mad because I put too much in saving or paying things off. I tell him I could be out her maxing out 10 credit cards and blowing money on clothes, purses, jewelry, whatever, so he should count himself lucky.

[covergirl82]

I have one friend that we are open with each other about finances. We have similar perspectives on budgeting and debt reduction, so it's nice to have a friend to talk with about setting goals and celebrating when we reach goals.

I would also say that I feel like we should have more money than we do, but after taxes, retirement, and insurance, we bring home about 60% of our gross pay. I think about when I was growing up and my mom worked part time as a parapro at my elementary school and my dad worked as a civil engineer, and we had a very comfortable life, but my parents didn't have to have a sizable portion of their pay deducted for retirement and insurance. I think now that people have to save for their own retirement and pay for a portion of their healthcare costs, we just don't have the same take home pay that our parents did.

[k3am]

Jul 11, 2019 8:50:24 GMT -5 covergirl82 said:

I have one friend that we are open with each other about finances. We have similar perspectives on budgeting and debt reduction, so it's nice to have a friend to talk with about setting goals and celebrating when we reach goals.

This is where I am. I have one friend that I'm comfortable discussing money with. I have a couple friends that we don't talk dollars or percentages, just how stuff is managed... mainly because they do it so differently than we do. We are a "it's all one pot" family when it comes to money, and they're a "this is my money, I buy XX, that's her money, she buys YY" type family. 


Do you and your spouse see eye to eye on money?
Yep. It makes our relationship that much easier. We both have our vices (books for me, video games for him) and we don't question each other on purchases, other than to make sure it's a valid transaction and not fraud. 


Is one of you a saver and one a spender?
If we need things, we buy them. Small purchases can add up. When it comes to bigger purchases, we have an unofficial rule that if it's "expensive" ie greater than $150ish? we talk about it first. I don't think I've ever shot down anything he wanted to purchases the same for me. Usually if he wants something I don't want to spend the money on, I bargain something for me so we both feel like we're winning. For example, DH wanted a 65" high end TV for the living room.. I don't watch much TV, so it seemed dumb to spend that much, so in exchange, he agreed I could buy a new front door. Spoiler alert? I love the TV. And I still haven't picked out the damned door.


How do you reconcile your money tendency differences? We haven't really had to since our styles are so similar. 

[k3am]

Jul 10, 2019 19:11:53 GMT -5 covergirl82 said:

I've gotten irritated at DH for using the ATM at his bowling league and being charged $3, instead of stopping at the ATM at our credit union that is right on his way to bowling.

DH used to do this with burritos. 1-2 times a week he'd pay a $5 ATM fee to pull out $20 and buy a burrito... turning it into a very expensive burrito. Drove me batty. I solved the problem by opening an account at a bank that refunds all ATM fees. I have zero regrets about the decision.

[186momx]

Since I do taxes I know what a lot of the jobs around town pay. I have a friend who both her and her spouse work for the city. I don't do their taxes but I do taxes for a number of people who do work for the city so I have a pretty good idea what their average income is. They are constantly complaining about how expensive stuff is and I've learned to just keep my mouth shut.

Not really. DH loves to spend money and I would rather save it for later or a big purchase. I asked DH to concentrate on paying off his truck so that we could replace my car which we are babying along. I asked him to put an extra 200 towards it each month which would pay it off in less than a year. He hasn't done it as it is on auto so he can't remember too. I think a lot of our money differences come from the fact that I had to scrimp and save to make my house payments and live when I was single but most single ladies don't buy a house at 24. DH lived with his parents and had no rent/household expenses he just had to do the day to day work on the place to live there so he was making decent money and blowing it all on toys and sports stuff. Even today DH thinks his pay is for fun stuff and my salary is for everything else.

[supertrooper1]

I talk about money with my coworkers, but not my friends. I'm pretty sure I make more than most of my friends outside of work. With work, everyone knows exactly how much you make each year. We all know what GS level everyone is working at and when I was in uniform, the daily overtime and shift differential list was printed out everyday. Because it was so transparent, we talked about money and spending. I was always amazed at how some coworkers struggled to make ends meet when others lived lavish lifestyles.

STBXH and I did not see eye to eye on money. When we first met, he was very frugal, but as our incomes grew, his spending increased exponentially. Because of numerous furloughs, I started an emergency fund on my own and he was against it, stating he wanted to put that money on the mortgage. But when we had something major happen, I had several thousand dollars to throw at the problem where he didn't have the cash.

[supertrooper1]

dragon's breath, TSP is awesome! I love being able to stick my money in the L funds and just let it sit. I have coworkers that move it around from the C, S and I funds but that's too much work for me.

[cosmowife]

I am so curious to know what one considers to be “good money”. Like, not dependent on industry or anything in particular. Just to you, what does it mean when someone says that they make good money? As my income grows, my definition of good money also grows. And it is always more than whatever I am making. This is sort of like the “Am I middle class” debate that always pops up on these boards.

[waverly]

Do we see eye to eye? Not 100% no.

I am a saver personality and DH is a spender, but he is also saving for retirement and college. He is prone to more purchases, impulse purchases and larger purchases.

How do we reconcile? It's been some very tense conversations, but we have mostly gotten there. We probably had 5 major issues and we got that down to just 1 issue. I sense that will be an issue for us when we finally do the bathroom addition.

I feel like I make good money, but I actually probably don't. The reason that I feel this way is because I am in the upper management of a low paying industry, so many people make less than I do. However, compare me to high paying industry and they are like lol no.  And I grew up lower class to middle class depending on whether my dad had a job at that time.

DH does make good money. I agree with covergirl82 , though. It is almost like no matter how much we make we don't really feel like that number and maybe it is because so much is going to taxes, retirement, student loans and in the past, childcare. We are just getting out of the era of childcare where we spent 25K a year on it, so that does help. But we are very very lucky that we don't live pay check to pay check and have the ability to save for retirement and college and are able to pay all our bills.

I still feel like my mind is trying to wrap itself around this whole concept that I don't really understand. But maybe that is because DH is bringing in most of the income and he pays most of the bills (joint money), but he is doing the actual bill payment, so maybe I am just removed slightly or because there is two of us, and he is spending over here on whatever. When it was just me, I kind of had everything in my mind better.

I feel like we make more money than most of our friends because DH is successful and lot of the other moms work part time rather than full time.  However, we have some friends where the wife is a high powered lawyer and the husband is high up in business.  The wife could easily be making 250-350K and the husband another 150- 180K. 

[186momx]

cosmowife, I think good money really is dependent on where you live and the job you do.

I know I could be making way more money than I do working at a business in A/P or A/R and even more money if I worked for a big accounting firm BUT I would loose all my flexibility and those perks of being self employed. We don't live paycheck to paycheck but I also don't want the stress of 2 car payments as that would put us too close to that paycheck to paycheck feel than I'm comfortable with.

[twinmomma]

I make about $100k. I consider that pretty good money, even in a relatively high cost of living area, especially now that I'm not paying full time daycare rates. From what I do know of close friends' finances, I think a lot of the married couples I know are lucky to make that combined. I honestly don't have a drive to make a ton more, because I know my expenses just keep going down each year as the kids get older and I pay down debt. Granted, I'll never upgrade to a much bigger house on this salary. Housing is insane here. I don't have a big cushion each month, but I also don't feel like I'm scraping by. I've built out a really strong budget so I always know where my money is going and have different savings accounts for different things like household repair, Christmas gifts, childcare, etc. So while on paper I look like I'm paycheck to paycheck, it's because I have every penny accounted for in either an expense or a savings account.

[waverly]

twinmomma, exactly. We might feel like it is paycheck to paycheck because every penny is "spent", but it isn't because the "spent" allotted amount is going into savings.

[ilovelucyvv]

1. Do you and your spouse see eye to eye on money?
No I think he is still in the mindset of when we were in our twenties and each made a third of what we do now. He gets worked up over petty stuff, like when I bought a writing journal for DD from Amazon instead of from a brick and mortar store, so he scrutinizes it when it is the same price if not cheaper and it is something we actually needed. I am too busy to spend money friviously.

2. Is one of you a saver and one a spender?
I am the spender.

3. How do you reconcile your money tendency differences?
Sprinkling purchases instead of buying in bulk when I think that will help.

[waverly]

The episode I am listening to today is about donating money locally. So I donated to a charity I have heard a lot about recently very local. It should be local to your community, so I won't post mine. But it was nice. We had volunteered at one of their events, and I was impressed. I was able to bring the kids and it was very family friendly. Sometimes growing up we had run into some of the volunteer coordinators who were cranky. It is nice to move into the bigger kids era (honestly my newly 6 year old was with me so not that big of a kid) where we can start to give back to the community in a way that is not just money but also time and we got to hang out with all sorts of people.

[mae0111]

waverly - I love the idea of donating locally. I donate all of my kids’ clothes to a local nonprofit that is a free closet for foster placements. Because the kids are often placed with nothing but the clothes on their backs, but the families don’t immediately receive aid from the state, these families are often faced with an unplanned bill to get some clothes for a foster child. This charity allows families to come in and get a few outfits to get started. They will also match up donors of baby or child gear (beds, cribs, etc) with those in need. I love that I know that someone locally that is doing something good for a child in need is getting these things, and that they’re not being resold to whoever wants them.

[k3am]

Jul 11, 2019 11:19:11 GMT -5 cosmowife said:

I am so curious to know what one considers to be “good money”. Like, not dependent on industry or anything in particular. Just to you, what does it mean when someone says that they make good money? As my income grows, my definition of good money also grows. And it is always more than whatever I am making. This is sort of like the “Am I middle class” debate that always pops up on these boards.

SO MUCH OF THIS. I think the concept of "good money" is a moving target and completely relative, even within comparable locals. 

The internet tells me that we make a lot of money, but it sure doesn't feel like it. 

[waverly]

There is definitely a difference between upper middle class (which is great) and rich. Rich is just like buying cash for your 10 million house in the Hampton’s. Even UMC there is still a budget to stick to and I am sure many have lots of expenses. This isn’t woe is me or anything. I think it’s just the mind perceives X money as more than an actually is and then with the take home and expenses it’s lower than the mind thinks it should be because those numbers are pretty far apart. Or for me I still think in terms of 80’s to 90’s pricing so it’s like my mind can logically talk about inflation but it still thinks it is 1989 or something. It just goes to show you the personal in personal finance and how emotions and feelings affect it moreso.

[dragon's breath]

Jul 11, 2019 11:19:11 GMT -5 cosmowife said:

I am so curious to know what one considers to be “good money”. Like, not dependent on industry or anything in particular. Just to you, what does it mean when someone says that they make good money? As my income grows, my definition of good money also grows. And it is always more than whatever I am making. This is sort of like the “Am I middle class” debate that always pops up on these boards.

The actual dollar amount is so dependent on area due to cost of living.  I make what I consider "good money" for my area.  However, I'm in a relatively low cost of living area, especially compared to Silicon Valley or so many areas on the east coast.  Even compared to the closest big city.

So to try to cover the wide range of areas in how I determine it...

I think "good money" means you can afford all your needs (true needs-- food, shelter, insurance, transportation, daycare for young children) and many of your wants.  Some wants you can cover with your paycheck, but some wants you have to save for over a period of time.  The number of wants you can cover will depend on the size of the wants.  Simple wants could all be covered, but more expensive wants may never be within reach.

I'd feel rich if I had never bought my property.  My mortgage would be paid off by now, my bills would be covered in less than one paycheck, I'd be maxing my retirement, and I'd get to have fun with the rest of the money and not worry about things.  Same income, but I stretched my paycheck for a very large "want".  I know I make good money.  I'd never turn down more (for my same job), but the "hurt" I feel paying the extra bills that come with the property were a choice and not forced on me.

I agree the definition changes as you grow, kind of like "how old is old" or "how old is middle aged".  Once I build a house and sell the current house though, I'll feel much more flush, even though my income, needs, and wants haven't changed.  I've just achieved a break-over point in what I am actively spending on them.

[mae0111]

I agree with dragon's breath re: “good money”. When I left my job, I was making low- to mid-six figures with my bonuses. DH was making the same with bonuses until he left to chase an ownership stake in a small firm. That didn’t work out and he started his own firm.

At that time, we were spending mid- to upper- 5-figures on child care. We live in a VHCOL area, so child care and housing is pretty crazy. Bonuses were mostly in deferred cash and stock, so we made a decision not to spend it and put it away for college and long-term savings. We lived on salary, which was only about 55% of my total income. We spent our cash bonuses on bigger home improvements - things like a new roof, new A/C, building DH an office, slowly remodeling.

We did not always see eye to eye. I was an extreme saver after spending time in a really tight financial situation (think splitting a can of soup into 2 meals), and he was a crazy spender despite a really tight financial situation, and he’d run up some debt. Over time, we’ve come toward the center. I still worry more than he does, but I think that’s because I’m not really earning. He is earning more than we earned combined right now, and we are saving a lot for college and retirement. We just bought a house for MIL, so we are replenishing savings as we can.