I fully believe most breeders are bad, but is it really that hard to find a good one if you know what to look for?
My parents got one from a backyard breeder and one from a good breeder. The good one was showing dogs and basically keeping the best, selling the showable ones to be shown, and the rest as pets. They and to sign a contract saying they'd return the dog if they ever wanted to give it up, and that they'd fix the dog. They toured the whole place (I guess they could have been hiding poorly treated dogs but that seems like a stretch).
Breeders make sense for legit trained service dogs,IMO. You dare sinking 10-30k into training- you want to start with the best possible odds that the dog's temperament and health will be good.
All of this from the lady who wants to kill a perfectly healthy blind dog?
Post by litskispeciality on Jul 17, 2019 12:16:12 GMT -5
DH and I always wonder with Nirvana, Sublime, AC/DC, even Led Zeppelin are bad or just way over played by one of the only rock stations left in our area? I liked Sublime, but don't understand the hype of the tribute band. To be fair my ex is in a hippy jam band so I see them playing with the tribute band (Badfish) more than I probably would see ads should I not have that connection. It's too bad these bands are so overplayed because in the 90's their music was great (I realize the last 2 are from the 70's, just carried over to the 90's for me).
Again in my area it's hard to get an animal from a shelter, often more because of supply and demand. I don't like when people say "oh they were a rescue" either regarding behavior, but I've known a lot of people who've had animals they rescued from abusive situations, so I think they think that's why they have to disclose that. My BIL had a bull dog that was nice as can be, but would chase men with long hair. We believe it's because he was abused by his previous owner, who probably had long hair. In my area you're pretty much shamed for using a breeder instead of a shelter, and then have to say "well I tried adopting, had my name on several applications but there were 50 people ahead of me". So I'm ok with breeders as long as you're doing a lot of research, I know about puppy mills, hopefully now closed pets stores in the mall etc. where you don't want to encourage that abuse.
To add what will probably be a real UO, I hate when people adopt dogs before having kids "to get used to them, and/or adjust their patience levels before baby comes along". I've known soo many families who end up douchily rehoming the dog because "it just isn't good with kids, we asked and they swear the dog was good, don't know what happened!". If you don't plan on having it forever don't get one ever, they're not temporary toys until something better comes along. DH and I don't have kids, want a dog, but just can't give it the time and energy they need, these people should get that too.
I used to be die hard about the goo goo dolls. Saw them a bunch before Name or Iris hit it big. I should have left the memories alone.
Their dizzy up the girl anniversary tour made me fucking furious. I saw them in St. Louis last October. I don’t think they knew one song they performed. Forgetting lyrics all over the place, stopping and restarting songs. Just garbaaaage. I’ve been anger-thumbs-downing on Pandora ever since.
Awh, that's sad! I hate being disappointed by a show. The amount of work he's had done made me feel old, lol, but otherwise they did a decent job, though they stuck almost exclusively to old hits. I did notice he can't hit the high/powerful notes anymore. They weren't the headliner, so I was fine with it (Headliner was Train and they were a blast COME AT ME BRO I'M NOT ASHAMED).
I saw them last Friday and also had a blast. Not my favorite show ever, but I definitely didn't leave disappointed.
My rescue dog is a shih tzu and completely hypoallergenic. I am very allergic to dogs. I don’t fully think allergies is a good reason to go the breeder route. He was owner surrendered and is perfect.
I completely agree with you. I’m also allergic to dogs and got my small dog (I think she’s a shih Tzu / Maltese mix) from the pound. There are two specific rescues where I live, one that’s for small breeds and one that’s a poodle rescue. Between the two of those, there are so many allergy-friendly options - including doodles, which seem to be the most common breed that people think they cannot rescue.
I used to be die hard about the goo goo dolls. Saw them a bunch before Name or Iris hit it big. I should have left the memories alone.
Their dizzy up the girl anniversary tour made me fucking furious. I saw them in St. Louis last October. I don’t think they knew one song they performed. Forgetting lyrics all over the place, stopping and restarting songs. Just garbaaaage. I’ve been anger-thumbs-downing on Pandora ever since.
Awh, that's sad! I hate being disappointed by a show. The amount of work he's had done made me feel old, lol, but otherwise they did a decent job, though they stuck almost exclusively to old hits. I did notice he can't hit the high/powerful notes anymore. They weren't the headliner, so I was fine with it (Headliner was Train and they were a blast COME AT ME BRO I'M NOT ASHAMED).
I saw Train a few years ago and they were awesome. I didn't even realize how much I loved them before going to their concert, lol. I almost bought tickets to see them again here this year but decided against it only for financial reasons.
Post by icedcoffee on Jul 17, 2019 12:28:28 GMT -5
I think I've confessed this before here....My dog is from a breeder and I regret it every day. Don't get me wrong, he is the best and I would do anything for him. When people ask me where we got him from I get super red and generally answer "oh---a place in PA". I sincerely wish we had rescued a dog though. I don't think our breeder was a backyard breeder, but I'm not 100% sure. I'm not qualified to make that call. Additionally, he's a beagle and there are 100s of beagles in shelters. I think I've read they're one of the more commonly dumped dogs.
Anyway---our next dog will 100% be a rescue. I feel so stupid for making the mistake once, but I can obviously see why people go to breeders. I should have known better, but obviously didn't. He is the best though.
I don't think you are shit person if you buy a dog from a breeder, but I also don't think most people need a purebred dog because REASONS!!! If you have an allergy or some other kind of special need, perhaps a specific breed makes sense. I think if you are getting a dog because you love dogs, though, it makes little sense to leave perfectly lovely dogs sitting homeless in a shelter (or worse, euthanized) just so you can get a particularly cute specific dog. You're also providing demand for more dogs to be bred and that means more people will not be adopting dogs that need homes.
As I said upthread, I had a purebred dog so I'm not perfect. But now that I know better, I will do better in the future.
Although my cat is a total diva so I'm not sure I'll be getting another dog for 17+ years. It would likely ruin his life, lol.
I've had Dobermans from good breeders and rescue and loved both I will never feel guilty for going to a breeder that health tests their dogs - esp with the prevalence of DCM in the breed.
I agree to a point. The general populace does not know what a good breeder entails, though. They stop at, "I met the mom and dad and they're cuuuuuuuuuuute!"
Very true and a good breeder probably would not sell to these people. I just see so much "no one should buy from a breeder, everyone should rescue" when in some cases this is not true. There are some very, very good breeders that are doing a lot to better their breeds and are involved in health research, etc. and I don't like to see these people demonized. On the other side, not everyone should rescue either. I don't know what the answer is other than some people just shouldn't have animals (or kids!)
I think it’s weird that not liking a show meant for teenagers is an unpopular opinion. I also think everything is boring, like I’m one of those olds who thinks nobody makes anything good anymore.
I didn't know that Stranger Things was meant for teenagers? lol
I wish there was a Stranger Things style show, minus the supernatural, but with the 80s aesthetic. I love that part of the show.
I agree to a point. The general populace does not know what a good breeder entails, though. They stop at, "I met the mom and dad and they're cuuuuuuuuuuute!"
Very true and a good breeder probably would not sell to these people. I just see so much "no one should buy from a breeder, everyone should rescue" when in some cases this is not true. There are some very, very good breeders that are doing a lot to better their breeds and are involved in health research, etc. and I don't like to see these people demonized. On the other side, not everyone should rescue either. I don't know what the answer is other than some people just shouldn't have animals (or kids!)
My dogs are from a breeder, and yes it’s a good one! Come at me! Would I do it again? Not sure. She really is a great breeder through, her dogs live a great life and she breeds to show and for pets only.
Can I keep the photo in the quote, because they be CUTE - I will delete if you want though. lol
I got Mr. Jiggles from a breeder - again, an awesome breeder, because, yes, there is such thing. This woman showed pugs, only bred her dogs when she had vetted homes for the potential puppies, and rescued pugs as well. I almost didn't get Jiggles because he was meant for the show life, but, lucky for me, his stupid face wasn't up to breed standards. And, maybe I am lucky, (I do think it has more to do with good breeding) but, in a breed notorious for awful health issues, Jiggles hasn't had any of them. He is 13 years old, and his recent cancer has been the first time he has had a health problem.
Would I rescue a pug? Absolutely. There are so many who need homes. But, they are the ones who were not bred well and generally require a ton more vet care. I am anti-backyard breeder/puppy mill. I think pretty much all the issues of pet overpopulation would disappear if there was no such thing as a backyard breeder or a puppy mill. But that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Its too lucrative. I think some breed specific rescues enable the problem too. They will purchase the unwanted puppies and the over bred mothers from the puppy mills, so what incentive do the breeders have to stop?
Its a problem. But if I see someone with a well-bred dog to breed standards and they say they got them from a breeder, I won't judge. Its the people who have fucked up dogs who come from the "good breeders" that I judge. I see soooo many poorly bred French Bulldogs who come from "responsible" breeders and that is all just bull shit.
Very true and a good breeder probably would not sell to these people. I just see so much "no one should buy from a breeder, everyone should rescue" when in some cases this is not true. There are some very, very good breeders that are doing a lot to better their breeds and are involved in health research, etc. and I don't like to see these people demonized. On the other side, not everyone should rescue either. I don't know what the answer is other than some people just shouldn't have animals (or kids!)
What type of person should not rescue a dog?
Several cats stacked up in a trench coat disguising themselves as a person.
@jiggy We used to have an english bulldog and she was a complete mess. She died at age 8 from a rare skin cancer. I sometimes check the bulldog rescue pages and at times all the dogs they're fostering are on medical hold with some serious or chronic issue. It's so sad
Okay, dogs that were abused for 7 years, removed from their mothers too soon, and never touched except to breed are going to have issues because of THOSE reasons. Not because they ended up being rescued. Good grief, it's like people are purposely obtuse to try to prove their point.
Okay, dogs that were abused for 7 years, removed from their mothers too soon, and never touched except to breed are going to have issues because of THOSE reasons. Not because they ended up being rescued. Good grief, it's like people are purposely obtuse to try to prove their point.
I truly just misunderstood what the poster said. I'm obtuse, but not purposefully I guess.
The kind of people that are not prepared to deal with issues that many rescue dogs come with. I know you had said that people saying "he's a rescue..." to describe a dog's bad/odd behavior is a pet peeve, but let's be honest, a lot of older dogs in rescue are there due to poor behavior whether it be from coming from a bad situation where a dog is not properly socialized or from someone giving up a cute puppy when it enters it's naughty "teenage" years. And sometimes just being "a rescue" IS the reason for a dog's poor behavior - shelter-based rescues with not enough volunteers to socialize dogs, bouncing around to too many foster homes, etc. These behaviors may not be the dog's fault and may be totally normal for the dog's age, but there is a big difference between knowing/training a dog up from a puppy and acquiring a teenager that has bad habits in place that will take more time and patience to correct. While you can certainly teach an old dog new tricks, bad habits in an adult dog are certainly harder to fix than in a puppy. And yes, I know that you can get a puppy through a rescue as well and that there are many legit rescues adopting out puppies but I'm getting wary of more and more of these lately. So many fly-by-night shady "rescues" dealing in puppies that are just as bad as the backyard breeders (or actually are backyard breeders.)
I don't want to come off as anti-rescue, but once you've had multiple fosters adopted out and then returned because adopters can't/aren't willing to put the time into helping an older dog adjust and overcome their issues you sour on the "everyone should just adopt" very quickly.
Hopping off my soapbox now, I could go on forever. This has been a topic that has been weighing heavily on me as I've had 2 fosters in the past 3 months be returned through no fault of their own. Now I'm working to correct bad behaviors that I know they did not leave here with - food stealing and bolting out the door. And working to adopt them because I can't watch them go out the door again
Goo Goo Dolls superfans can shut it down with the Nirvana hate.
Damn right they can! I don’t normally hate on the Goo Goo Dolls, but there is now way they can compare to Nirvana. The only thing worse would be if someone tried to say Goo Goo Dolls are better than Alice In Chains. Layne Staley was a god, I tell you! (Besides the drugs and whatnot)
The kind of people that are not prepared to deal with issues that many rescue dogs come with. I know you had said that people saying "he's a rescue..." to describe a dog's bad/odd behavior is a pet peeve, but let's be honest, a lot of older dogs in rescue are there due to poor behavior whether it be from coming from a bad situation where a dog is not properly socialized or from someone giving up a cute puppy when it enters it's naughty "teenage" years. And sometimes just being "a rescue" IS the reason for a dog's poor behavior - shelter-based rescues with not enough volunteers to socialize dogs, bouncing around to too many foster homes, etc. These behaviors may not be the dog's fault and may be totally normal for the dog's age, but there is a big difference between knowing/training a dog up from a puppy and acquiring a teenager that has bad habits in place that will take more time and patience to correct. While you can certainly teach an old dog new tricks, bad habits in an adult dog are certainly harder to fix than in a puppy. And yes, I know that you can get a puppy through a rescue as well and that there are many legit rescues adopting out puppies but I'm getting wary of more and more of these lately. So many fly-by-night shady "rescues" dealing in puppies that are just as bad as the backyard breeders (or actually are backyard breeders.)
I don't want to come off as anti-rescue, but once you've had multiple fosters adopted out and then returned because adopters can't/aren't willing to put the time into helping an older dog adjust and overcome their issues you sour on the "everyone should just adopt" very quickly.
Hopping off my soapbox now, I could go on forever. This has been a topic that has been weighing heavily on me as I've had 2 fosters in the past 3 months be returned through no fault of their own. Now I'm working to correct bad behaviors that I know they did not leave here with - food stealing and bolting out the door. And working to adopt them because I can't watch them go out the door again
I would say that the people you're describing shouldn't adopt any dog. Yes, sometimes dogs from the shelter have issues, but every dog owner should be willing to put time into training and socializing their dog, no matter where they get them or at what age.
The kind of people that are not prepared to deal with issues that many rescue dogs come with. I know you had said that people saying "he's a rescue..." to describe a dog's bad/odd behavior is a pet peeve, but let's be honest, a lot of older dogs in rescue are there due to poor behavior whether it be from coming from a bad situation where a dog is not properly socialized or from someone giving up a cute puppy when it enters it's naughty "teenage" years. And sometimes just being "a rescue" IS the reason for a dog's poor behavior - shelter-based rescues with not enough volunteers to socialize dogs, bouncing around to too many foster homes, etc. These behaviors may not be the dog's fault and may be totally normal for the dog's age, but there is a big difference between knowing/training a dog up from a puppy and acquiring a teenager that has bad habits in place that will take more time and patience to correct. While you can certainly teach an old dog new tricks, bad habits in an adult dog are certainly harder to fix than in a puppy. And yes, I know that you can get a puppy through a rescue as well and that there are many legit rescues adopting out puppies but I'm getting wary of more and more of these lately. So many fly-by-night shady "rescues" dealing in puppies that are just as bad as the backyard breeders (or actually are backyard breeders.)
I don't want to come off as anti-rescue, but once you've had multiple fosters adopted out and then returned because adopters can't/aren't willing to put the time into helping an older dog adjust and overcome their issues you sour on the "everyone should just adopt" very quickly.
Hopping off my soapbox now, I could go on forever. This has been a topic that has been weighing heavily on me as I've had 2 fosters in the past 3 months be returned through no fault of their own. Now I'm working to correct bad behaviors that I know they did not leave here with - food stealing and bolting out the door. And working to adopt them because I can't watch them go out the door again
I so agree with this. There's a woman in my golden FB group who wants to return her dog to the shelter because he hasn't integrated in their family in 3 days. She shouldn't have rescued a dog if she expects everything to be perfect and great after 3 days.
The kind of people that are not prepared to deal with issues that many rescue dogs come with. I know you had said that people saying "he's a rescue..." to describe a dog's bad/odd behavior is a pet peeve, but let's be honest, a lot of older dogs in rescue are there due to poor behavior whether it be from coming from a bad situation where a dog is not properly socialized or from someone giving up a cute puppy when it enters it's naughty "teenage" years. And sometimes just being "a rescue" IS the reason for a dog's poor behavior - shelter-based rescues with not enough volunteers to socialize dogs, bouncing around to too many foster homes, etc. These behaviors may not be the dog's fault and may be totally normal for the dog's age, but there is a big difference between knowing/training a dog up from a puppy and acquiring a teenager that has bad habits in place that will take more time and patience to correct. While you can certainly teach an old dog new tricks, bad habits in an adult dog are certainly harder to fix than in a puppy. And yes, I know that you can get a puppy through a rescue as well and that there are many legit rescues adopting out puppies but I'm getting wary of more and more of these lately. So many fly-by-night shady "rescues" dealing in puppies that are just as bad as the backyard breeders (or actually are backyard breeders.)
I don't want to come off as anti-rescue, but once you've had multiple fosters adopted out and then returned because adopters can't/aren't willing to put the time into helping an older dog adjust and overcome their issues you sour on the "everyone should just adopt" very quickly.
Hopping off my soapbox now, I could go on forever. This has been a topic that has been weighing heavily on me as I've had 2 fosters in the past 3 months be returned through no fault of their own. Now I'm working to correct bad behaviors that I know they did not leave here with - food stealing and bolting out the door. And working to adopt them because I can't watch them go out the door again
You make some valid points and I want to thank you for all you're doing for the dogs you're trying to help. I know you're making a difference in their lives. <3
Just because a breeder shows their dogs does not make them a good one!
I don’t really know about showing, but I thought for AKC shows you had to have proper bloodline paperwork? Which meant that only the best bloodlines were being breeded helping to better the breed.
Well, yes, but it doesn’t mean that they treat their dogs well.
I don’t really know about showing, but I thought for AKC shows you had to have proper bloodline paperwork? Which meant that only the best bloodlines were being breeded helping to better the breed. [/quote]
Nothing is needed to register a dog with the AKC. All someone needs to do is say, "I bred X registered dog with Y registered dog and had Z number of puppies" You pay them and they send you your registrations. They're all about the $$$.
My dogs are from a breeder, and yes it’s a good one! Come at me! Would I do it again? Not sure. She really is a great breeder through, her dogs live a great life and she breeds to show and for pets only.
they are soooooo cute! Little roly polys!
If we get another pug after Boopers passes we might go with a reputable breeder vs. rescue. Both of mine were rescues and while Boop has been mostly healthy other than lots of little mast cell tumors popping up like whack a mole, Chubbs died at 6 from cancer i'd like to get pugs that have a known health history and maybe know a bit about the temperament of their parents too. Boop's parents were likely bat shit crazy if her behavior is any indication. But she lived her first 2 years in a garage so that probably played more a part in developing her particular brand of crazy.
Puppies are so much work though, not sure we'll be up for that again. But they are so cute.
Just because a breeder shows their dogs does not make them a good one!
You are correct. There are many "show breeders" I would not buy a dog from. But, it is a good place to start. However, not treating their dogs well isn't a criteria I would use to be a good or bad breeder. There are many, many BRBs who love the shit out of their dogs and still have no business breeding.
The kind of people that are not prepared to deal with issues that many rescue dogs come with.
My argument to this is that most people just aren't equipped to deal with dogs. End stop. Doesn't matter where they get them, which is why there are so many rescues.