We have a new elementary school opening next year. We're a fairly affluent part of our county/school district (one of the fastest growing areas of the country) with lots of new construction being the foundation of the new elementary The school is very likely going to be very low percentage free/reduced lunch and with an active PTA and family involvement because that's the nature of the beast.
The new principal comes from an elementary school in the northern end of the school district, from a school that has 70-90% free/reduced lunches. In the past two years, her school (and one other) switched to school uniforms. She has been pro-active in their school doing so. It's more affordable for the students to just have a couple pair of pants and a couple easily replaceable shirts to get them through the year; it decreases stigma and bullying; and it promotes inclusivity for all are primary reasons. (Shirts are $7.99 and bottoms are $10.99-14.99 at Macy's, for Pete's sake! That's not including Old Navy, Target, JCPenney, Sears or the plethora of other places you can buy them for dirt cheap.)
She is mandating school uniforms for the new school. Parents are up in arms, from sharing petitions on Facebook, going to the media (television news and local paper) and discussing on the "School Board Facebook Group" (not the school board but parents talking about school board/district issues.)
The arguments are "individuality" vs. "inclusion." And there are "sensory issues" thrown in for those who deal with them (seams and fabric vs. reduction of visual stimulation). There is so much "but they never talked with the parents or the kids" when it was "unilaterally decided without community discussion at all." A LOT of the argument is "we weren't consulted" which seems very entitled.
So, just out of curiosity, where does everybody stand with school uniforms in public schools? (Can we tell where I stand? lol.)
Post by eponinepontmercy on Jul 16, 2019 13:03:07 GMT -5
If nothing else, our dress code requires that DD wear matching clothes (solid polo or turtleneck; khaki, black, or navy bottoms). Left to her own devices, she's a hot mess.
I don't mind the school's dress code at all, and I've found they are pretty lenient with things like shoes and leggings under dresses and kids wearing sweaters and sweatshirts. The stuff is usually reasonably priced and decent quality at target or children's place. The school also has a closet for kids who need uniform pieces.
Honestly, I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other. It seems to work in our community. The dress code is only for elementary school. Kids wear whatever once they hit middle school.
Post by karinothing on Jul 16, 2019 13:06:36 GMT -5
I am not fan personally because I really love clothes shopping with DS. That being said, I am not going to put up a fight if my kids school went to uniforms.
I don't know if I buy all the arguments behind them. Kids with more money are still going to have nicer clothes even if they are all the same color/style of clothes. At my cousin's school the kids just went all out with shoes, socks, and jewelry to show off. Parents who struggle to buy clothes are still going to struggle to buy uniform clothes.
We do not have one although the public school I taught in did have one in an adjacent community.
I would love it, especially if it’s a vague one like - navy shirt and khaki pants/skirt/shorts/jumper. This allows for many price points and is an easy way to accommodate those with sensory needs. This is coming from a mom with a kid with sensory issues.
I also love that hand-me-downs and uniform swaps are more frequently done as opposed to places with regular clothes. Not only saves $$ but less STUFF created in the world.
I taught for several years at a public high school without uniforms. There was a dedicated position for “dress code secretary” to deal with all the infractions on a daily basis. The dress code was always up for debate (it very clearly punished females and I even got into it with admin about it) and hard to decipher at times. Uniforms would have literally saved thousands of dollars in the budget and tons of headaches.
Post by debatethis on Jul 16, 2019 13:20:01 GMT -5
DS isn't there yet (starts kinder next month) but his school is 100% free or reduced and requires uniforms. Khaki or navy pants, white or navy collared/polo shirts. And they have an extensive "community closet" where all the parents swap up for their next sizes at the end of the school year, for free.
I love it and I can't wait. Arguing with him over clothes every morning is a PITA and also a significant cost savings for us, being able to shop anywhere. I was able to get all his uniform stuff at Old Navy for ~$75 (and I know it can be found cheaper, ON is just easier for me). Comparatively speaking, the uniforms for the Catholic school we'd considered sending him to were going to cost us ~$500 a year.
Frankly, as long as allowances are made for sensory kids and budget issues (and it sounds like there are) then I am seriously rolling my eyes at the whole community consultation pearl clutching. Schools don't have to function as a democracy and parents aren't the bosses.
We do not have one although the public school I taught in did have one in an adjacent community.
I would love it, especially if it’s a vague one like - navy shirt and khaki pants/skirt/shorts/jumper. This allows for many price points and is an easy way to accommodate those with sensory needs. This is coming from a mom with a kid with sensory issues.
I also love that hand-me-downs and uniform swaps are more frequently done as opposed to places with regular clothes. Not only saves $$ but less STUFF created in the world.
I am here. There are no schools near me, private or otherwise, that have a uniform. Though I know some of them have dress codes.
My son's elementary school had school uniforms but they were not required only suggested. The result being that almost none of the kids wore school uniforms. This year they announced that there is officially no uniforms and students just have to abide by the dress code instead.
Last year my daughter went to a private pre-k that has uniforms and so she wore what she wanted on the weekends and then on weekdays she would throw absolute fits about wearing "ugly" uniform clothes because she wanted to wear a "pretty dress" or a shirt with unicorns, princesses, etc. on it. At one point I decided to be a hard ass and just put her in uniforms during the weekend too, thinking that would eliminate the problem of transitioning between the two sets of clothes, but nope, just resulted in three weekends of her losing her mind before I gave up and saved my energy for fights on school days. Needless to say I am thrilled that she is going to the public elementary school this year without uniforms. But I fully realize my daughter is not the norm.
Post by penguingrrl on Jul 16, 2019 13:25:49 GMT -5
I’m not personally a fan and wouldn’t be advocating for it in my school, but if the school decided to switch I wouldn’t raise a fuss. It also depends on what the uniform is.
I’ve never felt comfortable in polo or button down shirts since starting adolescence. I’m petite but very busty and have never found a shirt in either style that fit me (either it fits in the arms, waist, etc and literally doesn’t button or the sleeves are about a foot too long and the waist is way too big and it looks entirely sloppy everywhere in order to fit my breasts) so being forced to wear either of those styles would have hurt my already very low self esteem for sure, and simply looked embarrassingly sloppy.
Post by imojoebunny on Jul 16, 2019 13:26:05 GMT -5
Our schools do not have dress codes, and it would cost me more if they did. 90% of my kids clothes are hand me downs, not from people at our schools. We don't really buy much for them clothing wise, except a few specialty items, like hiking shoes. I am not philosophically opposed to uniforms, don't really care either way, but it is not less money for a lot of people, over just getting random hand me downs, buying what is on clearance, or shopping at second hand stores. I don't think $8 for a shirt and $12 for pants is all that cheap.
I love the idea, if it's simple solid pants-solid shirts, no specific logos/plaids/whatever.
My niece's public middle school in SC does uniforms, khaki or black pants/skirts/shorts and solid colored polos in any color. Super simple, still leaves room for some choice. I'm jealous!
Ds1 (5.5) will go to a public school with a uniform and I love it. It will make dressing & shopping for school much easier IMO. They can pick from 2 colors for shirts & 2 for bottoms.
Post by penguingrrl on Jul 16, 2019 13:27:25 GMT -5
Also, my friends who went to Catholic school said that since they wore uniforms people got materialistic and obnoxious and “keep up with the Joneses” about shoes and bags, instead of them serving as an equalizer. The type of show iffy asshole that spends a fortune on their kids clothes will always find a way to show off that they have money.
Post by redheadbaker on Jul 16, 2019 13:35:12 GMT -5
Pro public school uniforms. DS' old school was vague -- plain white shirt, navy bottoms (shorts, pants, skirt). His new school doesn't have uniforms, and I'm already dreading the daily battle over what he'll wear that day.
Post by Velar Fricative on Jul 16, 2019 13:37:03 GMT -5
DD1 is going into first grade in September and does not wear school uniforms. She goes to an NYC public school, but this is the biggest public school system in the country so uniforms may be a thing in other schools in the system that I'm not aware of. However, on days when there is an assembly (I think DD1 had them just a handful of times last school year) they do require a white top and black/navy bottoms but other than those colors, style is flexible.
I don't really have a strong opinion either way. If the principal or entire system mandated uniforms I'd be fine with it, but I'm also fine with no uniforms.
We looked a school with uniforms. I was neutral on it and we ended up going to another school that didn't require them though that was not a factor in our decision. The pros usually out way the cons from the school perspective. There is no dress code to enforce while kids can tell who has the nicest shoes, watch etc it does at least reduce some of the clothing based tensions.
Also, my friends who went to Catholic school said that since they wore uniforms people got materialistic and obnoxious and “keep up with the Joneses” about shoes and bags, instead of them serving as an equalizer. The type of show iffy asshole that spends a fortune on their kids clothes will always find a way to show off that they have money.
Can confirm. We sent DS to a Catholic preschool that was PK-8th grade. The shoes for boys and Jojo Bows for girls are the showoff stuff.
Post by downtoearth on Jul 16, 2019 13:38:48 GMT -5
I find uniforms in a public school weird, but our area of the country doesn't have any school uniform public schools - only Catholic/Christian schools. That being said, I wouldn't argue much about it if the administrator had research that shows that if benefits the learning environment and it didn't involve getting special items with logos and such, but instead just solid colors from affordable shops.
It's not something I would argue about, but I would grumble as a parent b/c I dislike uniforms in general for students or work environments unless they are PPE clothing. I guess I don't really understand the need.
The uniform is simply Navy or White polo and Khaki bottoms. Buy It Where You Can Find It. Otherwise, there is no real restriction. I can get on board with that type of policy. It's for this elementary (the third in the district taking up uniforms, so this and two others only) and isn't district-wide.
I think the big problem is that the other two are low-income and the principal is coming from that background in education for pretty much her entire career, and we're "THE" UMC area of the district. "They" are starting to move into some of the other elementary schools, what with apartments (gasp!) being built here and other affordable (relatively speaking) housing.
I'm not averse to school uniforms. If only because I've been low income and I've seen the kids in the other schools, whose parents struggle to afford things we purchase without a second thought. I'm all for two pairs of pants (more if you can afford them and hate laundry) and a couple shirts to get you by.
DD1 is going into first grade in September and does not wear school uniforms. She goes to an NYC public school, but this is the biggest public school system in the country so uniforms may be a thing in other schools in the system that I'm not aware of. However, on days when there is an assembly (I think DD1 had them just a handful of times last school year) they do require a white top and black/navy bottoms but other than those colors, style is flexible.
I don't really have a strong opinion either way. If the principal or entire system mandated uniforms I'd be fine with it, but I'm also fine with no uniforms.
There are public schools in NY that have uniforms. www.tywls.org/ uses them for example. I think it is up to the district and school leadship.
We also have the white shirt dark bottoms things for a small number of events but there is no punishment for not wearing it.
I don't necessarily buy the argument about it being less expensive. I buy most of my kids' clothes at thrift stores for about $2/piece. I do this more for environmental reasons than financial, but having to buy uniforms, plus have a separate wardrobe for weekends, would increase my budget. Even leaving out the used clothes option, uniform clothes may be inexpensive, but no more so than, say, a Cat and Jack t-shirt.
I also don't really buy the argument that they're a status equalizer. My kids are still young (my oldest is starting public school next month), but I don't really see clothing brand as being a status indicator among younger kids, and, as PPs have said, older kids and teens will still find ways to display status through shoes, bags, etc.
That being said, my kids' (future) school doesn't have uniforms, but if the issue came up, I don't think I'd care enough to argue either way.
ETA: also, OP, your post read as pretty dismissive of kids with sensory issues, but that's a real issue for those kids (and their parents). Even if the school makes allowances for it, that will put those kids in the position of noticeably standing out from their peers.
The uniform is simply Navy or White polo and Khaki bottoms. Buy It Where You Can Find It. Otherwise, there is no real restriction. I can get on board with that type of policy. It's for this elementary (the third in the district taking up uniforms) and isn't district-wide.
I think the big problem is that the other two are low-income and the principal is coming from that background in education for pretty much her entire career, and we're "THE" UMC area of the district. "They" are starting to move into some of the other elementary schools, what with apartments (gasp!) being built here and other affordable (relatively speaking) housing.
I'm not averse to school uniforms. If only because I've been low income and I've seen the kids in the other schools, whose parents struggle to afford things we purchase without a second thought. I'm all for two pairs of pants (more if you can afford them and hate laundry) and a couple shirts to get you by.
This is still obvious in schools with or without uniforms - mostly in appropriate shoes and outerwear. Uniforms probably won't fix that. Our PE teachers routinely buy new running/tennis shoes out of their own pocket to help with this and during winter it's obvious who doesn't own boots, snow pants, hat/gloves, snow jackets after about a week of the first big snow.
A LOT of the argument is "we weren't consulted" which seems very entitled.
On the topic of uniforms, I too could go either way. I live in the land of private schools and seeing uniforms all over the place,I don't think it would bother me if our public school went uniforms too.
The quote above - this is what slays me the most, I think. We have a new principal this year too and he's made some changes. I know that there is a clique of parents who hate it because their power is gone! The old principal kind of kowtowed to them and they got used to it. New guy - not so much. And *I* personally love it!
The idea that he would put any of his decisions up for a community discussion.... lol for days. He's going to do what HE feels will work for the school.
now, I mean, saying that - having SOME parental input on a decision as big as uniforms, I can kind of see that. It is a huge change and will impact everyone. But... does it really need to be done in the light of "let me get your permission/ let's "discuss"" - eh... I feel that opens the door WAY too much for even more anger. I don't know the best way to go about it, and really , in the end, I'm with you. it does feel very entitled. And lets be honest, the people who are against it would still be against it even if she had talked to them. which is probably EXACTLY why she didn't!
For a public school, as long as it’s pretty generic and doesn’t have to be purchased from a specific place. I know that the public schools around here that do have dress codes are pretty generic - usually like khaki or navy bottoms and white or blue polo - so I wouldn’t be bothered by it.
I think the schools that do it around here do it largely to avoid dress code drama. I’m sure teenagers still manage to find a way to create some, but I imagine you have fewer issues if nobody has shirt with words or graphics on them, things like that.
Post by UMaineTeach on Jul 16, 2019 13:50:37 GMT -5
I come down on the no uniform side, for many reasons.
But I don’t think it’s the school’s job to consult with parents. You would get far to many options. Unless the dress code ends up shaming based on gender, sex, sexual orientation, religion, race, or disability, then reasoned arguments should be heard.
I also think it’s important to communicate it early, and mid July is late. Parents probably have started school shopping at this point. Regardless of income, people shouldn’t have to buy double.
The uniform is simply Navy or White polo and Khaki bottoms. Buy It Where You Can Find It. Otherwise, there is no real restriction. I can get on board with that type of policy. It's for this elementary (the third in the district taking up uniforms) and isn't district-wide.
I think the big problem is that the other two are low-income and the principal is coming from that background in education for pretty much her entire career, and we're "THE" UMC area of the district. "They" are starting to move into some of the other elementary schools, what with apartments (gasp!) being built here and other affordable (relatively speaking) housing.
I'm not averse to school uniforms. If only because I've been low income and I've seen the kids in the other schools, whose parents struggle to afford things we purchase without a second thought. I'm all for two pairs of pants (more if you can afford them and hate laundry) and a couple shirts to get you by.
This is still obvious in schools with or without uniforms - mostly in appropriate shoes and outerwear. Uniforms probably won't fix that. Our PE teachers routinely buy new running/tennis shoes out of their own pocket to help with this and during winter it's obvious who doesn't own boots, snow pants, hat/gloves, snow jackets after about a week of the first big snow.
I'm involved with an organization that provides shoes for students in need in schools. They have shoe lockers in the schools in two neighboring districts. New shoes only and many of them are brand shoes, which helps reduce the stigma as well. If the school doesn't have the proper size they call the org to resupply them. I go to Fred Meyer and Big 5 fairly regularly (as do others) to purchase name brand shoes for the lockers. I can get $60-75 shoes for $15-20 and few would know the difference. This also helps the students who would be otherwise challenged.
Sadly, there's never a cure. At least at the elementary level it's not so obvious with the labels. Unicorn tennis shoes are unicorn tennis shoes, and if you have flames you're awesome no matter the manufacturer.
I would LOVE LOVE LOVE uniforms here. I have too many fucking clothes to wash, it is horrible.
How would uniforms reduce your laundry? Everyone still wears one outfit every day that gets dirty and needs washing, no? In fact, I could see many kids not wearing their uniform after school and changing into regular clothes, this doubling laundry (and purchase costs).