Dem Candidates week of July 29

[seeyalater52]

Harris releases her Medicare for All plan today. She wrote about it in Medium:

medium.com/@kamalaharris/my-plan-for-medicare-for-all-7730370dd421

With the disclaimer that I still think this is the wrong framework for heath care reform and universal coverage/access, I think her plan is the smartest yet. I specifically like how she calls out Bernie’s plan to tax the middle class to pay for the plan and proposes a different payment mechanism. It still has a lot of flaws that are inherent to the model (I’d argue this is mostly Bernie’s fault in the end) like the truly idiotic short-term Medicare buy-in that will do very little for people. If we have to pass a law to get to this point (vs administrative action) they ought to use it to create a Medicaid buy-in so people can actually access a reasonable range of services at a reasonable cost. Also liked her putting a finer point on the fact that private insurers are not going to go POOF in this imaginary reformed system.

[mrsukyankee]

As someone who has private health insurance in the UK but still uses the NHS, I can say that it can work (unless you have a gov't who is trying to starve the NHS to get a US system...). With private health insurance, I still see my GP as a first port of call. If I need further services (for example, a surgery or physical therapy), then I can get referred and use my private insurance to pay for it. We pay a certain charge for medications and have either small or no deductibles with the private insurance. As a healthy person who has used my private insurance once, I'm quite certain that they make plenty of money off of me regardless (as we pay my premiums but my H's are covered by his work - I don't think the premiums are insane though, or we wouldn't do it - and they are taken through his work).

[seeyalater52]

Jul 29, 2019 6:41:57 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

As someone who has private health insurance in the UK but still uses the NHS, I can say that it can work (unless you have a gov't who is trying to starve the NHS to get a US system...). With private health insurance, I still see my GP as a first port of call. If I need further services (for example, a surgery or physical therapy), then I can get referred and use my private insurance to pay for it. We pay a certain charge for medications and have either small or no deductibles with the private insurance. As a healthy person who has used my private insurance once, I'm quite certain that they make plenty of money off of me regardless (as we pay my premiums but my H's are covered by his work - I don't think the premiums are insane though, or we wouldn't do it - and they are taken through his work).

From what I can tell (some of the plans are... vague) most candidates are not proposing this model - after the phase-out the government health plan would be compulsory and it isn’t clear whether or how private insurers would be permitted to supplement through employer coverage. I imagine it would exist in some form but what makes employer coverage useful now is largely the government mandates that control what must be covered.... and those would almost certainly disappear. I would not be opposed to a hybrid system, I just think they are building it backwards when they could use the ACA as a springboard rather than try to reinvent the wheel with something convoluted that is likely to make people angry and reduce the coverage that people who have good employer based plans have. If that was the ONLY way to ensure a more equitable system that would be one thing, but it doesn’t need to be a zero sum game the way they’re making it. It is bad politics AND bad policy.

The difference here I think is that transitioning from a for-profit to a government-run system is very different from starting from scratch building a health system.

ETA: to be clear, my main objection about Medicare for All is about the idiocy of using Medicare as a vehicle/ramp up, not about a government/single payer health system. There are a lot of ways to do the latter well.

[miniroller]

I just came to ask your thoughts/ see if you’d posted seeyalater52, thanks for sharing! I’m, unsurprisingly, in agreement with you.

WHY DON’T YOU WORK ON IMPROVING THE ACA?!? I realize it’s not a glamorous talking point. But starting from scratch on an entirely new plan seems to set us back a decade, instead of learning from past mistakes & working on improving those inherent issues!

[seeyalater52]

Jul 29, 2019 10:40:35 GMT -5 miniroller said:

I just came to ask your thoughts/ see if you’d posted seeyalater52, thanks for sharing! I’m, unsurprisingly, in agreement with you.

WHY DON’T YOU WORK ON IMPROVING THE ACA?!? I realize it’s not a glamorous talking point. But starting from scratch on an entirely new plan seems to set us back a decade, instead of learning from past mistakes & working on improving those inherent issues!

I would love to see much more of a focus on what to do NOW about the people currently uninsured or whose marketplace costs are just outrageous. There is so much we could do that would be more useful than offering current Medicare coverage to the uninsured that wouldn’t need 10 years to phase in.

I blame Bernie for that rather than Harris, though. She is trapped just like the rest of them, in the ideological purity test of Bernie’s creation. If he hadn’t made Medicare for All
the party line we would be having a much richer and more useful conversation about health care system
improvements. Instead, any candidate who proposes ACA improvements is laughed off the stage for being a moderate (and to be clear I am not a fan of Biden’s health care plan either, I think it doesn’t go nearly far enough.) I want to rip my hair out that this is where we’ve ended up.

[Poppy]

From an interview of Michael Bennet with WaPo: www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/26/transcript-sen-michael-bennet-d-colo

"But we have to do the hard work. You can't put out a proposal that says you're going to take your health insurance away from 180 million people as your opening bid. You can't. You can't. It's disqualifying. If the object is to overcome the Republicans, rather than give Mitch McConnell talking points every single morning on the floor, about why the Democrats are Bolsheviks or socialists. Or why Republicans are trying to protect your health care, and Democrats are trying to take away from you. That's not a matter of, "they're going to say it anyway." That's a matter of playing into their hands."



To me, this rings true. I do also appreciate the moving the Overton window argument, though, and I know that nuance is not what animates voters. What would your ideal candidate say about the path forward on healthcare?

ETA, seeyalater, you posted while I was making mine. I guess you think they're stuck.

[WOT?*]

Jul 29, 2019 10:44:32 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jul 29, 2019 10:40:35 GMT -5 miniroller said:

I just came to ask your thoughts/ see if you’d posted seeyalater52 , thanks for sharing! I’m, unsurprisingly, in agreement with you.

WHY DON’T YOU WORK ON IMPROVING THE ACA?!? I realize it’s not a glamorous talking point. But starting from scratch on an entirely new plan seems to set us back a decade, instead of learning from past mistakes & working on improving those inherent issues!

I would love to see much more of a focus on what to do NOW about the people currently uninsured or whose marketplace costs are just outrageous. There is so much we could do that would be more useful than offering current Medicare coverage to the uninsured that wouldn’t need 10 years to phase in.

I blame Bernie for that rather than Harris, though. She is trapped just like the rest of them, in the ideological purity test of Bernie’s creation. If he hadn’t made Medicare for All
the party line we would be having a much richer and more useful conversation about health care system
improvements. Instead, any candidate who proposes ACA improvements is laughed off the stage for being a moderate (and to be clear I am not a fan of Biden’s health care plan either, I think it doesn’t go nearly far enough.) I want to rip my hair out that this is where we’ve ended up.

Thank you for saying this. I live in Bernie Central, Washington and the Berniecrats that surround me want to primary ANYONE who is not Medicare For All and several legislative districts are not endorsing *any* candidate that does not back M4A, no matter their other qualification and no matter that they support Universal Healthcare in any other form (such as shoring up the ACA.) Our incumbents were separated from the slate at the endorsements for the 2018 elections by a couple Berners so they could "explain" their stance and why they should be endorsed. I spent the entire season holding signs for the reps in the next district over because it was their LD that was pulling this stunt and putting their DEMOCRATIC candidates at risk against Republicans for their refusal to endorse. Thankfully, once the incumbent (state) senator gave a rousing speech with an "And if you want to elect a Republican like (conspiracy theorist former vet) then go ahead. Because it's me or him." That right there is why I can NOT support Bernie. He made the wrong program the end game. Just like back when he didn't support and didn't vote for "Hillarycare" (which would have led to UHC decades ago. :flames)

[seeyalater52]

Jul 29, 2019 10:46:41 GMT -5 Poppy said:

From an interview of Michael Bennet with WaPo: www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/26/transcript-sen-michael-bennet-d-colo

"But we have to do the hard work. You can't put out a proposal that says you're going to take your health insurance away from 180 million people as your opening bid. You can't. You can't. It's disqualifying. If the object is to overcome the Republicans, rather than give Mitch McConnell talking points every single morning on the floor, about why the Democrats are Bolsheviks or socialists. Or why Republicans are trying to protect your health care, and Democrats are trying to take away from you. That's not a matter of, "they're going to say it anyway." That's a matter of playing into their hands."



To me, this rings true. I do also appreciate the moving the Overton window argument, though, and I know that nuance is not what animates voters. What would your ideal candidate say about the path forward on healthcare?

ETA, seeyalater, you posted while I was making mine. I guess you think they're stuck.

My ideal candidate wouldn’t be idiotically mking statements to the press criticizing all the current primary front runners’ positions on health care as “disqualifying.” Bennet can sit down with this, even though there is a nugget of truth to it.

My ideal candidate would be somewhere in the middle. Talking concretely about single payer options has absolutely opened a new debate and enthusiasm for health system transformation that is largely for the better but it is overly aspirational and doesn’t do a whole lot to help people who need help in the short term. There are too main camps on this among Dems in my opinion - too enthusiastically left and too enthusiastically center. I want somewhere in the middle. If I’m remembering correctly Gilligrand managed the nuance of this the best so far.

[jeaniebueller]

Kamala Harris was endorsed by Michigan's democratic party black caucus

www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/07/michigans-black-democratic-leaders-endorse-kamala-harris.html

[nessness]

Harris launched her student loan forgiveness plan, which would forgive up to $20k in debt for Pell-grant recipients who start a business in disadvantaged areas and operate it for 3 years. Which seems...pretty specific.

www.vibe.com/2019/07/kamala-harris-student-loan-forgiveness-plan

[ufcasey]

Jul 29, 2019 13:35:44 GMT -5 nessness said:

Harris launched her student loan forgiveness plan, which would forgive up to $20k in debt for Pell-grant recipients who start a business in disadvantaged areas and operate it for 3 years. Which seems...pretty specific.

www.vibe.com/2019/07/kamala-harris-student-loan-forgiveness-plan

This makes absolutely no sense. If you need a pell grant, you don't have the money to start a business (on top of your student loans!).

[nessness]

Jul 29, 2019 14:26:32 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

Jul 29, 2019 13:35:44 GMT -5 nessness said:

Harris launched her student loan forgiveness plan, which would forgive up to $20k in debt for Pell-grant recipients who start a business in disadvantaged areas and operate it for 3 years. Which seems...pretty specific.

www.vibe.com/2019/07/kamala-harris-student-loan-forgiveness-plan

This makes absolutely no sense. If you need a pell grant, you don't have the money to start a business (on top of your student loans!).

Right?!

Plus:
- Most recent grads aren't really qualified to open a business
- Tons of businesses fail within 3 years
- Not all businesses in disadvantaged communities are beneficial to those communities. If you're going to be this selective about who "deserves" loan forgiveness, do you really want to reward people for opening, say, a payday loan business, or for contributing to gentrification by putting their pilates studio or artisanal yogurt shop in a low-income neighborhood?

[heyjude]

Jul 29, 2019 14:26:32 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

Jul 29, 2019 13:35:44 GMT -5 nessness said:

Harris launched her student loan forgiveness plan, which would forgive up to $20k in debt for Pell-grant recipients who start a business in disadvantaged areas and operate it for 3 years. Which seems...pretty specific.

www.vibe.com/2019/07/kamala-harris-student-loan-forgiveness-plan

This makes absolutely no sense. If you need a pell grant, you don't have the money to start a business (on top of your student loans!).

I don’t think it makes no sense. Disadvantaged communities need people to invest in them. This incentivizes that. And just because you are a Pell Grant recipient does not mean at no time in your life can you afford to open a business. If this is the end of her student loan forgiveness plan then I don’t think it does enough. But it’s not a terrible idea on its own.

[jigsy]

Jul 29, 2019 13:35:44 GMT -5 nessness said:

Harris launched her student loan forgiveness plan, which would forgive up to $20k in debt for Pell-grant recipients who start a business in disadvantaged areas and operate it for 3 years. Which seems...pretty specific.

www.vibe.com/2019/07/kamala-harris-student-loan-forgiveness-plan

That's one way to make sure it doesn't blow the budget out of the water. :/

In other news - Andrew Yang qualifies for upcoming debates


thehill.com/homenews/campaign/455207-yang-qualifies-for-third-and-fourth-democratic-debates

[Deleted]

Have we talked about the atrocious video Bernie put out to show how he’s so pro woman? It starts out by...attacking a woman.

[jeaniebueller]

Jul 29, 2019 15:31:38 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Have we talked about the atrocious video Bernie put out to show how he’s so pro woman? It starts out by...attacking a woman.

Link?

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2019 18:04:10 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Jul 29, 2019 15:31:38 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Have we talked about the atrocious video Bernie put out to show how he’s so pro woman? It starts out by...attacking a woman.

Link?

[ESF]

Jul 29, 2019 14:54:11 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Jul 29, 2019 14:26:32 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

This makes absolutely no sense. If you need a pell grant, you don't have the money to start a business (on top of your student loans!).

I don’t think it makes no sense. Disadvantaged communities need people to invest in them. This incentivizes that. And just because you are a Pell Grant recipient does not mean at no time in your life can you afford to open a business. If this is the end of her student loan forgiveness plan then I don’t think it does enough. But it’s not a terrible idea on its own.

This is where I am. It's a small program and unlikely to result in sweeping structural change but sometimes that is ok. Not everything has to be the New Deal. 

While I like Warren's big policies generally, I'm iffy about Warren's student loan forgiveness plan for various reasons, and I would prefer a series of smaller, more targeted programs to address that specific issue.

ETA I haven't read the details but I don't even think the business needs to be huge. A food truck or a small flower shop, a day care, etc - those would probably qualify.

[elleblue]

And my favorite response to Bernie's ad:

[jeaniebueller]

Also, doesn't his campaign remember how Sanders supporters attacked Gloria Steinem in 2016 because she supported Hillary and because she made a comment on Real Time with Bill Maher about how younger girls like Bernie because of the boys? (it wasn't a great comment in fairness)

[ufcasey]

Jul 29, 2019 22:30:58 GMT -5 ESF said:

Jul 29, 2019 14:54:11 GMT -5 heyjude said:

I don’t think it makes no sense. Disadvantaged communities need people to invest in them. This incentivizes that. And just because you are a Pell Grant recipient does not mean at no time in your life can you afford to open a business. If this is the end of her student loan forgiveness plan then I don’t think it does enough. But it’s not a terrible idea on its own.

This is where I am. It's a small program and unlikely to result in sweeping structural change but sometimes that is ok. Not everything has to be the New Deal. 

While I like Warren's big policies generally, I'm iffy about Warren's student loan forgiveness plan for various reasons, and I would prefer a series of smaller, more targeted programs to address that specific issue.

ETA I haven't read the details but I don't even think the business needs to be huge. A food truck or a small flower shop, a day care, etc - those would probably qualify.

But if the purpose of this plan is "student loan forgiveness" - how many people still paying student loans have access to money to start a business and keep it solvent for at least three years? I mean sure, at some point you may be able to afford to open a business, but that timeline probably isn't when you still are owing thousands of dollars in student debt, which is when you would need the student debt forgiveness!

You can be iffy on Warren's plan, but this plan will forgive the loans of basically no one. I like targeted plans, but student loan debt is huge and pervasive and targeting only 1% of it is kind of weird. Looking at her website though, it seems like she does have some other plans around this issue, though they aren't particularly detailed on how she will do the free/debt free part:

kamalaharris.org/issue/debt-free-college-and-student-debt/

"Kamala believes that in America, your family’s wealth should not dictate your success. That’s why as president, she’ll fight to make community college free, make four-year public college debt-free, and provide an income boost to nearly 1 in 7 Pell Grant recipients through her LIFT Act, the largest tax cut for working Americans in generations."

[heyjude]

Harris now tops PPIC CA poll (19%). Bigger news, Biden (11%) in 4th (behind Warren (15%) and Sanders (12%)).

[heyjude]

Jul 30, 2019 10:43:11 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

Jul 29, 2019 22:30:58 GMT -5 ESF said:

This is where I am. It's a small program and unlikely to result in sweeping structural change but sometimes that is ok. Not everything has to be the New Deal. 

While I like Warren's big policies generally, I'm iffy about Warren's student loan forgiveness plan for various reasons, and I would prefer a series of smaller, more targeted programs to address that specific issue.

ETA I haven't read the details but I don't even think the business needs to be huge. A food truck or a small flower shop, a day care, etc - those would probably qualify.

But if the purpose of this plan is "student loan forgiveness" - how many people still paying student loans have access to money to start a business and keep it solvent for at least three years? I mean sure, at some point you may be able to afford to open a business, but that timeline probably isn't when you still are owing thousands of dollars in student debt, which is when you would need the student debt forgiveness!

You can be iffy on Warren's plan, but this plan will forgive the loans of basically no one. I like targeted plans, but student loan debt is huge and pervasive and targeting only 1% of it is kind of weird. Looking at her website though, it seems like she does have some other plans around this issue, though they aren't particularly detailed on how she will do the free/debt free part:

kamalaharris.org/issue/debt-free-college-and-student-debt/

"Kamala believes that in America, your family’s wealth should not dictate your success. That’s why as president, she’ll fight to make community college free, make four-year public college debt-free, and provide an income boost to nearly 1 in 7 Pell Grant recipients through her LIFT Act, the largest tax cut for working Americans in generations."

I feel like this is the wrong way to look at her plan. Her goal is to revitalize marginalized and economically depressed communities. Incentivizing people to invest in these communities while at the same time providing loan forgiveness is a two-fer policy driven plan. It’s not the end of her student loan plan and it’s not the end of her community revitalization plan. It’s a piece of her policy agenda.

[smock]

Jul 30, 2019 10:43:11 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

But if the purpose of this plan is "student loan forgiveness" - how many people still paying student loans have access to money to start a business and keep it solvent for at least three years? I mean sure, at some point you may be able to afford to open a business, but that timeline probably isn't when you still are owing thousands of dollars in student debt, which is when you would need the student debt forgiveness! 

It depends how you define "business." I'm a freelancer and a sole proprietor, and my business had zero start-up costs. I bet there are tons of other freelancers or independent contractors in the same boat. If that counts as starting a business, Harris's plan will help tons and tons of college graduates who can't find traditional jobs and have to go the freelance route. 

[ufcasey]

Jul 30, 2019 13:35:12 GMT -5 smock said:

Jul 30, 2019 10:43:11 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

But if the purpose of this plan is "student loan forgiveness" - how many people still paying student loans have access to money to start a business and keep it solvent for at least three years? I mean sure, at some point you may be able to afford to open a business, but that timeline probably isn't when you still are owing thousands of dollars in student debt, which is when you would need the student debt forgiveness! 

It depends how you define "business." I'm a freelancer and a sole proprietor, and my business had zero start-up costs. I bet there are tons of other freelancers or independent contractors in the same boat. If that counts as starting a business, Harris's plan will help tons and tons of college graduates who can't find traditional jobs and have to go the freelance route. 

So here's her website page about this particular plan: kamalaharris.org/opportunity-gap/

There's no description of what a 'business' would be and how to define a 'disadvantaged community'. So who knows if for example working from your house in a low income area as a webpage design freelancer would qualify for this.

Though I did like this additional detail to her plan that wasn't previously reported:
"Participants can have up to $20,000 of debt forgiven and can defer all of their student loans, interest-free, during a business-formation period that can last for as many as three years."

Along with a grant and technical support program to help fund the creation of these businesses (but specifically this only applies to minority small business owners).

[downtoearth]

Jul 30, 2019 14:35:33 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:35:12 GMT -5 smock said:

It depends how you define "business." I'm a freelancer and a sole proprietor, and my business had zero start-up costs. I bet there are tons of other freelancers or independent contractors in the same boat. If that counts as starting a business, Harris's plan will help tons and tons of college graduates who can't find traditional jobs and have to go the freelance route. 

So here's her website page about this particular plan: kamalaharris.org/opportunity-gap/

There's no description of what a 'business' would be and how to define a 'disadvantaged community'. So who knows if for example working from your house in a low income area as a webpage design freelancer would qualify for this.

Though I did like this additional detail to her plan that wasn't previously reported:
"Participants can have up to $20,000 of debt forgiven and can defer all of their student loans, interest-free, during a business-formation period that can last for as many as three years."

Along with a grant and technical support program to help fund the creation of these businesses (but specifically this only applies to minority small business owners).

Yeah, I think she has some details that are salient and important to view as the goal or principles of the plan. And it would be pretty "in the weeds" to have everything worked out when she needs congress to actually enact this plan. I chide Bernie for not having details, but "disadvantaged community' is actually a common term in the government contracting world and includes several community designations such as HUB Zones, USDA codes on rural communities, BIA disadvantaged community partnerships, etc. So there is already a framework there to branch off from and definitions in different government programs to utilize. Same for small and minority businesses. Maybe you could start a freelance program to get some debt forgiveness, but likely you'd have to apply to the program and the rules that result from the regulation might have some stipulations about types of businesses. For example, I know someone who is an independent contractor who provides public health statistics support for small and disadvantaged communities - she works alone in her house, but generally for the good of the public and I would hope someone like her would qualify.

[heyjude]

Jul 30, 2019 14:35:33 GMT -5 ufcasey said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:35:12 GMT -5 smock said:

It depends how you define "business." I'm a freelancer and a sole proprietor, and my business had zero start-up costs. I bet there are tons of other freelancers or independent contractors in the same boat. If that counts as starting a business, Harris's plan will help tons and tons of college graduates who can't find traditional jobs and have to go the freelance route. 

So here's her website page about this particular plan: kamalaharris.org/opportunity-gap/

There's no description of what a 'business' would be and how to define a 'disadvantaged community'. So who knows if for example working from your house in a low income area as a webpage design freelancer would qualify for this.

Though I did like this additional detail to her plan that wasn't previously reported:
"Participants can have up to $20,000 of debt forgiven and can defer all of their student loans, interest-free, during a business-formation period that can last for as many as three years."

Along with a grant and technical support program to help fund the creation of these businesses (but specifically this only applies to minority small business owners).

Well these are plans at this point. Not pieces of legislation. Defining terms would happen in the crafting of the legislation as its being prepared for introduction, committees, and etc. Most of the plans put out by candidates are just ideas that would require significantly more work should it go through the legislative process.

[morecoffeeplease]

Here is an update on who has qualified, so far, for the September debate and what they need to do to qualify.

As of August first, Biden, Harris, Warren, Sanders, Booker, Buttigieg, and O'Rourke have qualified. Yang, Castro, and Klobuchar are close.

[suburbanzookeeper]

Williamson is currently on Anderson Cooper and losing her shit, he's questioning her about her stances on mental health and vaccines.

[isabel]

I got to see Harris speak tonight. She was fantastic. Warm, confident, energetic. Her message was overwhelmingly positive, but she also talked a fair bit about high-overview policy ideas. I think she would murder Trump in a debate.