Illinois college tuition scandal

[msmerymac]

Another one of these:


jezebel.com/parents-have-found-another-way-to-work-the-college-syst-1836807030


By transferring guardianship to friends or other family members, students are allowed to declare themselves financially independent, thus allowing them to qualify for state aid they wouldn’t ordinarily be privy to. A University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign admissions officer, Andy Borst, was tipped off to the practice when a high school counselor from a wealthy Chicago suburb called to ask why a student was invited to an orientation program for low-income students; from there, the University of Illinois went on to identify 14 applicants who had also obtained a legal guardian.

ProPublica Illinois found more than 40 guardianship cases fitting this profile filed between January 2018 and June 2019 in the Chicago suburbs of Lake County alone. The parents involved in these cases include lawyers, a doctor and an assistant schools superintendent, as well as insurance and real estate agents. A number of the children are high-achieving scholars, athletes and musicians who attend or have been accepted to a range of universities, from large public institutions, including the University of Wisconsin, the University of Missouri and Indiana University, to smaller private colleges.





“It’s not like these families are close or on the tipping point” of being eligible for the aid, Borst told ProPublica. “I don’t know how big this is, but I hope we can nip this in the bud now. … If it is legal, at what point is it wrong?”


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Interestingly, most comments are about how college should be cheaper, and these people shouldn't be blamed because college is so expensive. But again, at what point is it wrong? These people aren't poor, and they're obviously investing money in a legal process to change their child's guardianship in order to game the system... which means their kids are likely taking funding away from kids who need it more. 

[Deleted]

Just FYI ProPublica broke the story.

www.propublica.org/article/university-of-illinois-financial-aid-fafsa-parents-guardianship-children-students

[taratru]

I'm not nearly as mad about this. This is about not being able to afford college, imo, which is different than presenting a false persona for admissions.

eta: I just reread...I thought this was people like me who do well enough, but not enough to pay for school. I'm a little more mad about it now.

[Bad Dingo]

Another way that the rich are gaming the system and taking spots away from actual needy kids.

[CheeringCharm]

gross

I don't get people like this. I mean, I'm not crazy about the idea of spending $75-100k on one year of schooling for each of our kids but we can afford it and we would never do something like this. Just because you can legally do something and fudge the lines, doesn't mean you should do it ethically speaking. People who make more money, have more savings, should pay more to enable scholarship money to go to kids whose parents truly don't have that money.

[debatethis]

For context, y'all, Lake County is the wealthiest county in IL. It's 75% white, though the specific towns mentioned are even higher (Lake Forest, for example, is 92% white). Median incomes in the towns referenced in the ProPublica piece are over $90k/year in areas where fixer upper homes start at $350k and routinely have property taxes upwards of $15k- the highest in the state. They also didn't get rid of restrictive covenants against Jewish and Black residents until 1990 though a bunch of them still exist de facto. These are quite literally some of the most privileged, wealthiest white folks in all of Illinois, if not the greater midwest. Even if the particular families involved aren't at the top echelon of income earners, they have a significant amount of privilege just by the schools their kids are going to and the zip codes in which they live. I am quite comfortable calling this disgusting.

[carmenere]

Jul 30, 2019 10:45:48 GMT -5 debatethis said:

For context, y'all, Lake County is the wealthiest county in IL. It's 75% white, though the specific towns mentioned are even higher (Lake Forest, for example, is 92% white). Median incomes in the towns referenced in the ProPublica piece are over $90k/year in areas where fixer upper homes start at $350k and routinely have property taxes upwards of $15k- the highest in the state. They also didn't get rid of restrictive covenants against Jewish and Black residents until 1990 though a bunch of them still exist de facto. These are quite literally some of the most privileged, wealthiest white folks in all of Illinois, if not the greater midwest. Even if the particular families involved aren't at the top echelon of income earners, they have a significant amount of privilege just by the schools their kids are going to and the zip codes in which they live. I am quite comfortable calling this disgusting.

Agreed. From the Propublica article:

Borst said the university told the three students midway through last school year that their university-based financial aid would be reduced. “We didn’t hear any complaint, and that is also a big red flag,” Borst said. “If they were needy, they would have come in to talk with us.”

[W.T.Faulkner]

"In Illinois last year, about 82,000 students who were eligible for the MAP grant, up to about $5,000, did not receive it because there wasn’t enough money. The grant is awarded on a first-come, first-served basis."

Guess who is in all likelihood losing out on the grant money? The students who are actually independent -- whose parents are dead or incarcerated, who have children of their own, who are homeless or in foster care. And every time the university adds more hoops to jump through to prove independent status, students who are the most vulnerable are the ones who are affected.

This is fucking disgusting.

[puppylove64]

So I think this is disgusting for people who live in million dollar houses and choose not to “afford” college for their kids. But this is something I would totally recommend to say, my nephew whose mom has a billion kids and she doesn’t take care of them and he wants to break the cycle and his fasfa would ask for his dad’s info and probably ruin any chances of aid, but his dad is a douche who wouldn’t help. So it is a slippery slope. It isn’t illegal because there are kids who need to change guardianship for better college opportunities.

[Bad Dingo]

Jul 30, 2019 12:29:57 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

So I think this is disgusting for people who live in million dollar houses and choose not to “afford” college for their kids. But this is something I would totally recommend to say, my nephew whose mom has a billion kids and she doesn’t take care of them and he wants to break the cycle and his fasfa would ask for his dad’s info and probably ruin any chances of aid, but his dad is a douche who wouldn’t help. So it is a slippery slope. It isn’t illegal because there are kids who need to change guardianship for better college opportunities.

Still not right.

[puppylove64]

Jul 30, 2019 13:16:48 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Jul 30, 2019 12:29:57 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

So I think this is disgusting for people who live in million dollar houses and choose not to “afford” college for their kids. But this is something I would totally recommend to say, my nephew whose mom has a billion kids and she doesn’t take care of them and he wants to break the cycle and his fasfa would ask for his dad’s info and probably ruin any chances of aid, but his dad is a douche who wouldn’t help. So it is a slippery slope. It isn’t illegal because there are kids who need to change guardianship for better college opportunities.

Still not right.

Why? There are kids that are independents in all aspects, but their trash parents won’t sign them over because they still want to receive tax benefits for them.

[mouse]

Not the point, but I think if you're an independent adult at 18 or whatever (the age my parents cut me off) it's bullshit to use your parents' income for calculating financial aid.

[W.T.Faulkner]

Jul 30, 2019 13:31:07 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:16:48 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Still not right.

Why? There are kids that are independents in all aspects, but their trash parents won’t sign them over because they still want to receive tax benefits for them.

If he lives with his mother only, the he'd only put his mom's info, and the "billion kids" would actually be beneficial.

[puppylove64]

Jul 30, 2019 13:35:20 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:31:07 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

Why? There are kids that are independents in all aspects, but their trash parents won’t sign them over because they still want to receive tax benefits for them.

If he lives with his mother only, the he'd only put his mom's info, and the "billion kids" would actually be beneficial.

Last time I helped someone do Fasfa they were require to have both parents info even though they were divorced and the dad hadn’t spoken to or helped his kids in years

[W.T.Faulkner]

Jul 30, 2019 13:37:14 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:35:20 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

If he lives with his mother only, the he'd only put his mom's info, and the "billion kids" would actually be beneficial.

Last time I helped someone do Fasfa they were require to have both parents info even though they were divorced and the dad hadn’t spoken to or helped his kids in years

Nope.  Only the custodial parent is required.  For the CSS Profile, a more in-depth financial aid info for more competitive, more expensive private colleges, you need both parents' info.

[puppylove64]

Jul 30, 2019 13:38:53 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:37:14 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

Last time I helped someone do Fasfa they were require to have both parents info even though they were divorced and the dad hadn’t spoken to or helped his kids in years

Nope.  Only the custodial parent is required.  For the CSS Profile, a more in-depth financial aid info for more competitive, more expensive private colleges, you need both parents' info.

well good, but either it hasn’t always been that way or it isn’t clear enough. I know people who got rejected because they only put the custodial parent and they wanted additional info from the other parent. It is all a pain in the ass anyway and those that need the aid aren’t the ones with the resources to get the paperwork filled out properly.

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2019 13:32:11 GMT -5 mouse said:

Not the point, but I think if you're an independent adult at 18 or whatever (the age my parents cut me off) it's bullshit to use your parents' income for calculating financial aid.

The problem is that this is just SO hard to verify. Since pretty much everyone is broke at 18, if all you had to do to qualify for various programs was say that you’re financially independent, most people would even though their parents would be providing them other forms of financial support.

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2019 13:38:53 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:37:14 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

Last time I helped someone do Fasfa they were require to have both parents info even though they were divorced and the dad hadn’t spoken to or helped his kids in years

Nope.  Only the custodial parent is required.  For the CSS Profile, a more in-depth financial aid info for more competitive, more expensive private colleges, you need both parents' info.

Yeah, I remember having to do that. I remember one private college sent me my aid notification. It indicated that my (non-custodial) Dad was supposed to pay $4k. Was never ever going to happen. I wrote a letter appealing that and actually got an additional $3k grant. But that was the private college’s grants and had nothing to do with state programs. (This was in 2000.)

[W.T.Faulkner]

Jul 30, 2019 13:42:13 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:32:11 GMT -5 mouse said:

Not the point, but I think if you're an independent adult at 18 or whatever (the age my parents cut me off) it's bullshit to use your parents' income for calculating financial aid.

The problem is that this is just SO hard to verify. Since pretty much everyone is broke at 18, if all you had to do to qualify for various programs was say that you’re financially independent, most people would even though their parents would be providing them other forms of financial support.

Yes. There is an extreme difference between a student with two working parents, who has a place to live on school breaks, and a student who has just aged out of foster care. One can likely borrow money in a pinch to eat or for books; the other truly needs every dollar he or she can get in grant money.

[W.T.Faulkner]

Jul 30, 2019 13:44:09 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:38:53 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

Nope.  Only the custodial parent is required.  For the CSS Profile, a more in-depth financial aid info for more competitive, more expensive private colleges, you need both parents' info.

Yeah, I remember having to do that. I remember one private college sent me my aid notification. It indicated that my (non-custodial) Dad was supposed to pay $4k. Was never ever going to happen. I wrote a letter appealing that and actually got an additional $3k grant. But that was the private college’s grants and had nothing to do with state programs. (This was in 2000.)

So many of my kids (I'm a counselor) would be FUCKED if the noncustodial waiver didn't exist. Some kids don't know their father's name and genuinely have no way to contact him, let alone ask him for money. Thankfully, I'm able to write a letter as a third party verifying that they do not have a relationship, but even then, that doesn't always work.

[taratru]

Jul 30, 2019 13:32:11 GMT -5 mouse said:

Not the point, but I think if you're an independent adult at 18 or whatever (the age my parents cut me off) it's bullshit to use your parents' income for calculating financial aid.

QFT. My 21 year old who has been out of our house since graduating high school still has to use my info, and her dad's, even though we are divorced, until she is 24.

[pixy0stix]

Jul 30, 2019 13:44:09 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:38:53 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

Nope.  Only the custodial parent is required.  For the CSS Profile, a more in-depth financial aid info for more competitive, more expensive private colleges, you need both parents' info.

Yeah, I remember having to do that. I remember one private college sent me my aid notification. It indicated that my (non-custodial) Dad was supposed to pay $4k. Was never ever going to happen. I wrote a letter appealing that and actually got an additional $3k grant. But that was the private college’s grants and had nothing to do with state programs. (This was in 2000.)

I never had to put my non-custodial parent on any college aid applications, and this was 20 some years ago. From the responses, I'm gathering that this is something we can't make a blanket statement on. ETA: Kill the anecdotes.

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2019 13:55:16 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:44:09 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Yeah, I remember having to do that. I remember one private college sent me my aid notification. It indicated that my (non-custodial) Dad was supposed to pay $4k. Was never ever going to happen. I wrote a letter appealing that and actually got an additional $3k grant. But that was the private college’s grants and had nothing to do with state programs. (This was in 2000.)

I never had to put my non-custodial parent on any college aid applications, and this was 20 some years ago. From the responses, I'm gathering that this is something we can't make a blanket statement on.

The non custodial is only for some private schools, like WTFaulkner mentioned. So I had to do it for, I think, two or three private schools but not one or two. It’s totally school dependent (in the private realm). I didn’t mean to imply that this was true at all schools.

[eclaires]

I know many kids whose parents would be able to help per the FAFSA but absolutely will not. I’ve always wondered about that and felt for those kids.

That said, I also joke about having my brother adopt my kids at 18 because his dependents receive free tuition in the state where my kids plan to attend school. I guess at least I’d be giving up the tax benefit? Also I’d never do it. But it does have appeal. College is so expensive.

[downtoearth]

Jul 30, 2019 13:38:53 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:37:14 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

Last time I helped someone do Fasfa they were require to have both parents info even though they were divorced and the dad hadn’t spoken to or helped his kids in years

Nope.  Only the custodial parent is required.  For the CSS Profile, a more in-depth financial aid info for more competitive, more expensive private colleges, you need both parents' info.

How does that work in states without custodial requirements - our state is an equal parental state for divorce with children, so there is not need or requirement to define who is the "custodial" parent (unless you choose to write it in on your own)?

[downtoearth]

After reading the article, I don't really understand these parents. Maybe I'm an outlier (and so are my friends who are parents), but my goal of parenting is to help my child become self-sufficient and see the best in the world, while also understanding that failure and hurt is part of the human condition. I care that they try their best and care that they try to make quality choices, but I also can't imagine modeling such crap behavior just to save myself money for vacations and paying for their off-campus apartments and eating out. It speaks more to the lack of character in these parents - and I know not everyone is perfect or right (I sure as heck am not), but doesn't that bother these parents at all?!

[lilibet]

I got into the U of I and didn't go there in part because my parents had no intention of helping me pay and the loans needed were too overwhelming, so this just really frustrates me. I know that area is a much higher income than where I'm from too. If nothing else I'm sure there are actually counselors/people in this area who could help them navigate scholarships, grants,loans etc instead of my town where there are lots of first to go to college students who had little to no help because their parents don't know and the local high schools don't have a ton of resources for this info.

[isabel]

Jul 30, 2019 15:09:20 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Jul 30, 2019 13:38:53 GMT -5 W.T.Faulkner said:

Nope.  Only the custodial parent is required.  For the CSS Profile, a more in-depth financial aid info for more competitive, more expensive private colleges, you need both parents' info.

How does that work in states without custodial requirements - our state is an equal parental state for divorce with children, so there is not need or requirement to define who is the "custodial" parent (unless you choose to write it in on your own)?

Presumably the parent who claims the child on their taxes would be the custodial parent. My parents split it up. My mom claimed me and my dad claimed my sister (or vice versa, I can't remember). They had roughly 50/50 custody per the agreement (though in practice it didn't really work out that way).

[downtoearth]

Jul 30, 2019 15:17:49 GMT -5 isabel said:

Jul 30, 2019 15:09:20 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

How does that work in states without custodial requirements - our state is an equal parental state for divorce with children, so there is not need or requirement to define who is the "custodial" parent (unless you choose to write it in on your own)?

Presumably the parent who claims the child on their taxes would be the custodial parent. My parents split it up. My mom claimed me and my dad claimed my sister (or vice versa, I can't remember). They had roughly 50/50 custody per the agreement (though in practice it didn't really work out that way).

We swap each year with our kids for taxes - some years I get two kids and others I get one and then by the end we just swap the third kid back and forth for about 4-5 years until they are in college.  And in our state there isn't a requirement on custody being a custodial driver - joint custody with no custodial can range from 30% to 70% time with parent. My lawyer noted that it's actually becoming more common to not designate one (she works in 3 states) unless there is evidence of abuse or issues. So I think colleges and universities are going to have to adapt too.

[penguingrrl]

I’d guarantee that these entitled assholes are the same ones who vote against free college tuition while trying to steal it for themselves.