WWYD - Camp for 8 year old DS - UPDATE in replies

[MDmomof2]

My DS is 8, entering 3rd grade.  He has been to camp for 8 weeks this summer through a local group (Columbia Association if anyone is local in MD).  They are VERY well run camps with very engaging staff and lots of fun.  In addition to the 8 weeks of Art and Nature Camp, he expressed interest in going to a basketball camp.  He has trouble in PE class in school because it's loud in the gym, so I was concerned the basketball camp (indoors in a gym) would be too loud.  This camp is run through CA (where he goes to all of his camps) but actually run by another group that specializes in basketball camps.  The camp seemed geared for kids of all skill levels and included grades 3 to 10. 

He was so excited last week about this camp and so excited this morning.  When I dropped him off this morning, no one engaged with him.  Typically at the CA camps you sign them in, then someone welcomes the kid, shows them where to put their stuff, and gets them involves in a group activity.  I stayed with him a bit while other kids jumped into the basketball court, then asked if he was OK if I left and he said yes.  So, from the get-go I was nervous that this wouldn't be a good fit (loud, not engaging), but I took a deep breath and let it go.  Then I got a call at 2 pm saying he was "not interested in basketball" and "didn't do any activities."  I asked how they engaged him and they said he wouldn't engage, just sat on a bench curled up in a ball. I felt so badly! I went and got him.  When I got there the Director was on the phone with someone talking about Adam and how he didn't want to do basketball.  I tried not to get upset - he DOES want to do basketball. He was SO excited to do this camp!

So, this isn't the right fit for him.  Part of it is his personality and part of it is the structure of the camp.  I can't send him back tomorrow or the rest of the week and have him fail again.  DH and I work full time, but I work from home and my DD (age 11) is home without camp this week. I can make it work although I am dealing with my mom is hospice and having two kids at home while trying to catch up on work and move my projects forward.  I'm going to make it work because I just can't send him back.

Sorry for the wall of text - here's my question: do you think I'm justified in asking for a refund?  This camp is not a good fit for DS - partly due to his personality and partly due to the style of the camp, which I would not have expected due to previous experiences with CA Camps.

[hocus2]

I doubt you'll get a refund. Most camp specifically state they don't do refunds for poor fit issues.

However I think you should write a pointed but professional note about how they could do better to support a kid like yours. The point is not for them to feel defensive but for everyone to have a better experience.

[game blouses]

Not sure how it works in MD but most camps my kids have gone to don’t even give refunds for illness. The more generous camps give you credit for a camp at another time.

Sports camps are really tricky, it seems. They seem to be made for confident kids who are eager to play, not beginners who need a little encouragement (like my DS).

[lauren170]

I think I would try it one more day, and talk to the director tomorrow morning. Take my advice with a grain of salt because my oldest is only 5.

[erbear]

Aug 19, 2019 16:23:28 GMT -5 lauren170 said:

I think I would try it one more day, and talk to the director tomorrow morning. Take my advice with a grain of salt because my oldest is only 5.

I would too (only I have a reluctant 10 year old). Talk to the director, explain what his issues are and what he needs, and ask if they can help. If tomorrow is awful, then  I would let him stay home (but I don't think you will get a refund, sorry.)

[ellipses84]

Can you see if he can transfer to a different camp this week? Ours has multiple programs running at the same time and would be more likely to do that than give a refund (if it was earlier in the summer, they might give a credit for a future session). I suggest you ask for whatever you want and if anything at least it will give them honest feedback about your experience in their program.

They were talking about your kid on the phone when you walked in? I’d be upset if they were doing that in a place anyone could hear. I’d also be annoyed they make more of an effort to engage him, even if it wasn’t playing basketball, but I also have a son his age who doesn’t like doing things he’s not good at and sometimes shuts down.

He’s been in different camps each week and a lot of them go swimming. The first time at the pool he passed the swim test, which he couldn’t do last year and he was so happy. The next week the strict head instructor gave it and he failed. He was so upset he sat on the edge of the pool and wouldn’t talk to anyone. The camp counselors told me about the incident and they needed to be with the kids in the pool and were too short staffed to have someone focus on him. We still sent him the rest of the week (because we didn’t have a choice and he had fun with friends in other activities). He chose to sit out the next pool day and a later week he went swimming in the shallow end. He desperately wanted to take the swim test at my sisters pool club which is a longer length, and I let him and he grabbed the edge when he wasn’t supposed to, failed and had a major tantrum and shut down. We are trying to use it as a teachable moment that sometimes you fail, and it’s ok to feel upset, but you can’t react in ways that get you into trouble, we are proud of him for trying, he can make his own choices, etc.

I’ve learned never to put young kids in groups with huge age ranges because they never operate at the beginning skills level they claim to.

[mccallister84]

Did they call you to come pick him up or just to give you a heads up? If they asked you to bring him home then I would expect a refund.

[waverly]

I don’t think you would get a refund.

I might try one more day also and talk to him tonight about it. Ask him why he wouldn’t participate and see what you or the camp can do to turn it around.

If that won’t work I would ask to transfer camps. We don’t typically work from home so typically we need childcare and pulling someone just won’t work.

[drloretta]

This was my daughter 2 years ago. There was no way we could get a refund. She gutted it out for the week and did drama camp the following summer. This year (this week actually) she is trying soccer camp. I don't think she's having a good time with that one either, but she's giving it a go.

I would, however, have a talk with the coaches and/or the director about how this is being handled.

[MDmomof2]

Thanks to all of your for your thoughts on this. My son said later last night that kids were mean to him - telling him that he should be able to do things that smaller kids could do. He is the youngest kid they will take (age 8) but he's exceptionally tall. After more questioning it seemed like the camp was not geared towards true beginners and that even though he was in the beginner group, those kids had more skills. I decided to make a call to the camp director this morning to express my disappointment in the camp and talk through our experience. The camp director listened to me very carefully and asked several questions. He immediately offered a refund! He also let me know that several other kids did not enjoy camp and asked to go home - they also seemed to be at the beginner level. He said it was the first year the organization had contracted out to this company to coach the camps and that they would be making some changes based on feedback. He felt that although my son and these other kids were true beginners that they should have accommodated their skill level and engaged them and he apologized that it didn't happen. While I was very excited that he offered the refund, I was truly grateful that he listened and seemed to understand where I was coming from. While I felt badly that other kids also had a bad experience, it helped me feel better that my kid wasn't "that kid" that just couldn't make it work.

TL; DR - Camp Director listened to my concerns and offered a refund.

[ECB]

Good outcome! What also bothers me is that it seems like the coaches didn't really handle this well. There were numerous kids with the same complaints? But yet the coaches (possibly) let them be made fun of and definitely didn't work with them and their skill level? A good coach should be able to see the different levels and find a way to work with ALL the kids.

[MDmomof2]

I googled the outfit that put on this camp and they do camps and teams for kids as young as 3rd grade. So you'd think they'd be used to working with this age group! However, I think they get serious players who have already had some coaching and experience. I don't think they were expecting to get true beginners! This is the 3rd week of camp they co-hosted and I couldn't tell from the Director if these problems have been going on all 3 weeks or are unique to this week. This is the first time the camp is full and they have 60 kids! It may have been too much for them to handle. My daughter took a Skateboard Camp through the Columbia Association and while she had zero skill going in the counselor was fantastic and worked with each kid at their skill level and really helped them to feel comfortable on the board. She was a little iffy after the first day but definitely wanted to go back thanks to the counselor's skill and attitude. I think most people expect that from this brand of camps, but the group they contracted with to provide the camp just isn't used to real beginners.

Aside from having my son home with me this week, I'm very happy with the outcome!

[ECB]

Aug 20, 2019 12:09:30 GMT -5 MDmomof2 said:

I googled the outfit that put on this camp and they do camps and teams for kids as young as 3rd grade. So you'd think they'd be used to working with this age group! However, I think they get serious players who have already had some coaching and experience. I don't think they were expecting to get true beginners! This is the 3rd week of camp they co-hosted and I couldn't tell from the Director if these problems have been going on all 3 weeks or are unique to this week. This is the first time the camp is full and they have 60 kids! It may have been too much for them to handle. My daughter took a Skateboard Camp through the Columbia Association and while she had zero skill going in the counselor was fantastic and worked with each kid at their skill level and really helped them to feel comfortable on the board. She was a little iffy after the first day but definitely wanted to go back thanks to the counselor's skill and attitude. I think most people expect that from this brand of camps, but the group they contracted with to provide the camp just isn't used to real beginners.

Aside from having my son home with me this week, I'm very happy with the outcome!

Well, in MD, this week and next week is when people are desperately scrambling to find camps that are actually open.  SO many camps - last week was their last week.  I wonder if the people running this camp didn't take this into account and they were overwhelmed with the number of kids! 

[pugz]

Glad they offered a refund. And I think this is partly a kid sports ridiculous thing. Kids in 3rd grade should be able to learn sports at a beginner level! I know lots of parents make their kids commit year-round to a sport at the age of 6 but that should NOT be the norm. Kids should be able to try sports all throughout elementary school and not be made to feel "behind" because they haven't played before.

[formerlyak]

I am glad there was a good outcome. That said, they really need to find a company to outsource this to that knows how to coach all levels. My older ds went to basketball camp at UCLA for two years. He is TERRIBLE at basketball, but likes to play. He went when he was 8 and 9. There were plenty of kids who had a lot more experience and natural ability in his age range, but they were all grouped by age, played the first day and divided into even teams and it was made very clear that you lose points for bullying and bad sportsmanship. For a player like my son who isn't a good basketball player to find something in basketball they there were good at (for ds it was defense which sounded boring to him because you don't get to score, but they really helped him see why defense was just as important as scoring). And for the more experienced players, they learned how to work with the less experienced players and lift them up to a better level. The team is only as strong as your weakest player, so the strong players learned that helping the weaker players grow helped the team overall. It was really amazing how they did it. I was a nervous mess because I knew DS wasn't a good player, but he had a great time that week because of the good coaching.

[redheadk]

Aug 20, 2019 13:21:56 GMT -5 pugz said:

Glad they offered a refund. And I think this is partly a kid sports ridiculous thing. Kids in 3rd grade should be able to learn sports at a beginner level! I know lots of parents make their kids commit year-round to a sport at the age of 6 but that should NOT be the norm. Kids should be able to try sports all throughout elementary school and not be made to feel "behind" because they haven't played before.

Goodness gracious, THIS! 

I'm glad they are giving you a refund, OP, but it's pretty ridiculous that they can't accommodate beginners. If it was a summer camp for the basketball league meant for returning players, then fine, but a general basketball camp for 8 year olds? This is nuts.

[pugz]

my daughter had a horrrible tennis coach for a parks and rec class this spring that clearly should not be working with kids. She called them lazy! And acted like the whole thing was an inconvenience to her because "she doesn't get paid enough." They need to screen these people better.

[MDmomof2]

I agree that it's crazy they couldn't accommodate beginners, despite saying that they do. I'm happy and lucky that the Camp Director agreed. I don't even live in a particularly sports-crazy part of MD but it feels like if you haven't picked a sport at age 8 you are out of luck. My DD (age 11, going into 6th) tried out for several year round swim teams and we feel lucky that she made one. She's only done lessons and summer swim before. She's serious in the sense that she is committed to practice and will put the work in, but her times are not blowing anyone away. It seems like there aren't many places for kids like that to do sports!

[knx9211]

Aug 20, 2019 13:49:55 GMT -5 pugz said:

my daughter had a horrrible tennis coach for a parks and rec class this spring that clearly should not be working with kids. She called them lazy! And acted like the whole thing was an inconvenience to her because "she doesn't get paid enough." They need to screen these people better.

Based on your sig, your daughter is SEVEN? What the fuck? I would be burning things down.

Plus, this plus the OP is so odd to me. They're 7/8 years old. How much damn "experience" could they actually have?! Is there a huge population of kids out there playing basketball and tennis from the age of 3? I'd better catch my kid up. He's 2 and all he's done so far is repeatedly drink gallon after gallon of water during his swim class.

[erbear]

Aug 20, 2019 13:21:56 GMT -5 pugz said:

Glad they offered a refund. And I think this is partly a kid sports ridiculous thing. Kids in 3rd grade should be able to learn sports at a beginner level! I know lots of parents make their kids commit year-round to a sport at the age of 6 but that should NOT be the norm. Kids should be able to try sports all throughout elementary school and not be made to feel "behind" because they haven't played before.

My hill to die on. You should not have to be a pro in a sport at age 8 in order to play.