Post by Shreddingbetty on Oct 28, 2019 20:27:33 GMT -5
@@@@
My ex step kids went to liberal Arts private colleges at the tune of 50k/year for tuition alone. They are 28 and 26 and so far have not done much of anything with their degrees. The older is now finally working on a masters of some sort (her degree was in art history ) and I think the younger one is finally going back to school as well (English Major). Of course they didn’t have any loans because their dad and grandparents trust paid for it so they are lucky. I honestly cannot see going into debt like that really for anything really. It is insane, My ex’s nieces (whom we raised) are from a large state college. Still not cheap but much less we. One is out and one is in. I feel like they have much more opportunities going to the larger state school which is a very good school. I’m kind of hoping I can send my kid to France for college, it would be much cheaper. I am pretty sure my ex will pay for her college when the time comes but I think that sort of tuition is insane even if you have the money. He is a private school guy and so I’m sure will encourage her to look at small LA colleges. He also grew up with the idea that you go there to get a well rounded education and not necessarily with the intent of what can I do with my degree afterwards and is it worth it. i grew up with the idea that I needed to be able to take care of myself financially. My youngest niece went to High Point her freshman year and by xmas she had decided it wasn’t worth the money (even though the wasn’t paying for it) and that it was a lot white privileged kids going to school on daddy’s dime mostly to party. I know that obviously there also plenty of kids that are there to actually study and do well but that was her observation. I also feel like my kid is very privileged and it might be nice to get out of that bubble when she goes to college. When I went to college in the dinosaur days I paid 1500 bucks a semester (early 90s) and I thought that was a lot lol. It is a small state college that is now around 10k per year I think. It is scary to think of what the cost of college will be like in 9 years when my kid is ready..
Post by jeaniebueller on Oct 29, 2019 7:46:28 GMT -5
Will we see the rise of the community college? My district and many others are offering dual enrollment programs in high school, in 5 years you graduate with your HS diploma and an associates degree--free of charge. Its really tempting, but I also wonder if the traditional 4 year experience away from home is beneficial in other ways. My H attended community college and transferred to a large state school and he really regrets not having the dorm experience. But is it worth the money if we will be looking at exhorbant prices?
Will we see the rise of the community college? My district and many others are offering dual enrollment programs in high school, in 5 years you graduate with your HS diploma and an associates degree--free of charge. Its really tempting, but I also wonder if the traditional 4 year experience away from home is beneficial in other ways. My H attended community college and transferred to a large state school and he really regrets not having the dorm experience. But is it worth the money if we will be looking at exhorbant prices?
FWIW, I never had a dorm experience except during study abroad and didn’t hate it. But I do think about this a lot. College used to be when kids left home, likely for good. Now they are way more likely up return home after college, and it’s part of a trend of people “staying” kids longer and delaying adulthood. With all of that in mind, I also think that’s a possible reason why we may see more commuter students in the future. Also, housing is just expensive. NYS is offering free tuition to students with HHI below a certain amount, but not free housing, and so far anecdotally these students aren’t necessarily going away from home, especially if they are commuting distance to SUNY/CUNY so they only end up paying misc fees and for books. I just think most kids and their parents are going to be far more hyper focused on costs than ever. Whether this means more going to CCs, I’m not sure.
Not necessarily. You can have small engineering colleges for example that are very focused on the sciences and have lots of coop work or internship experience required. Vocational type schools wouldn’t fit the bill then like nursing, medical, teaching, technology. We have one nearby that seems more focused on sciences like flight and occupational therapy which is a Catholic institution, so you have some more focused on religion and divinity studies (might fall into several categories). And of course this isn’t including community colleges. The people that I know that went to liberal arts colleges have degrees in sociology and political science. Then they had to figure it out from there. One is a lobbyist and the other one works for a non profit. They might not be taking classes in business, pre-law or pre-med type stuff.
Well yes I wasn’t including vocational schools or community colleges. I guess there is no exact definition? I just randomly looked up Swarthmore as I googled and it considers itself a liberal arts school. But under their lists of majors is biology for example and it specifically says, "we prepare students for careers in research and medicine." So it seems like some liberal arts schools do help you figure out a more specific career path.
I’m just harping on the definition just because when the article quotes statistics what colleges is this data coming from? Is it just 50 schools in the country or is it 500 for example? Are the smaller schools that aren’t considered liberal arts facing the same difficulties? Like I said above I never really knew the difference so that’s why I was confused.
I'm confused about this too (lol). You can get a liberal arts education at non-liberal arts colleges. And there are plenty of small schools that aren't liberal arts colleges. My undergrad was about 3,500 people, had a large focus on liberal arts majors, small classroom sizes, etc but I don't think it is considered a "liberal arts college".
Will we see the rise of the community college? My district and many others are offering dual enrollment programs in high school, in 5 years you graduate with your HS diploma and an associates degree--free of charge. Its really tempting, but I also wonder if the traditional 4 year experience away from home is beneficial in other ways. My H attended community college and transferred to a large state school and he really regrets not having the dorm experience. But is it worth the money if we will be looking at exhorbant prices?
FWIW, I never had a dorm experience except during study abroad and didn’t hate it. But I do think about this a lot. College used to be when kids left home, likely for good. Now they are way more likely up return home after college, and it’s part of a trend of people “staying” kids longer and delaying adulthood
The residential college/dorm 'experience' (along with the Liberal Arts structure) is a quintessentially American thing. In Europe, while not unheard of for people to travel away for college, it's almost always because of the discipline being studied as opposed to just moving away, and they are much less likely to live on campus - a rare opportunity and instead just live in local apartments. It's also far more common for students to live at home during undergrad.
In my close friend group at college, I can only think of one or two who didn't live at home for the 4 years of college. I don't necessarily see my experience living at home as any less pseudo-adult than the undergrads who live on campus here to be honest.
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”
Many private liberal arts colleges have residency REQUIREMENTS for certain undergrads. My school required you to live on campus all but senior year unless you got an exception. I can definitely see that going away. Also, there's nothing that says you can't save money by living at home and doing CC for 2 years and then spend 2 years on campus. Unfortunately, many transfer students end up having to take longer than 2 years to graduate anyway.
In some ways I see living on campus as a disadvantage. I recall lots of fun and close friendships as a result of living in the dorms, but I also screwed around a lot, drank too much, stayed up late and skipped class, had trouble focusing on studying because of all the commotion around me, etc. Did I have a blast? Yes. Was it worth the cost? IDK. And would I have been a better student if I had been living at home with my family? Probably. I at least would have had my own space, some accountability, and would have had to be careful about falling into bed wasted at 3am. And the friendships were great at the time but only one of those people is even in my life at all at this point, and we are rarely in contact. So it's not necessarily a recipe for lifelong connections.
I went to college out of state, so I didn't have a choice, but I don't think that shifting to a mostly commuter environment is a bad thing. People will have to accept that building parking ramps is necessary, though!
I attended a small liberal arts college and now teach at one. I realize that cost is a huge issue that needs to be addressed (and maybe this is how the market addresses it), but FWIW I am a huge believer in the power of a liberal arts education for developing students into critical and creative thinkers. This has definitely panned out well for me and most of my friends that I went to college with. Of course, a liberal arts education completely devoid of any career resources would be a bad idea, but nowadays LACs are focused on career counseling and articulating how liberal arts skills are important in the workplace. Sure, you can get a very good education at many different types of institutions but the model of teaching at a LAC can't be beat IMO. On the other hand, a 10:1 student-faculty ratio is very expensive, and I do hate the idea of LACs becoming solely the domain of the wealthy. At a teaching conference a few weeks ago, a colleague from Australia commented "You Americans are so funny with your 'big' classes of 100 students! Our big classes have over 1000 students!" I can't help but think that something is lost when you don't know your professor and you're taking classes in a stadium.
wildrice, isn't that kind of the point, though? At some point you need to realize that falling into bed drunk at 3am isn't doing you good, and it might as well be in the relative safety of a college campus where there may be fewer consequences (like not getting fired). Regardless, some people are ready to live in dorms, or off campus, and some should probably live at home for a few years, but that's up to them with parental guidance. I went to school a few hours from my parents, but they would have been hesitant for me to go to school on the other side of the country (or a different country, except perhaps Canada). Some kids REALLY need to live at home and do CC for a few years. It would be nice if everyone had the choice of what was best for them, but they don't. Not at $400k. And the "dorm experience," while beneficial, isn't really worth that.
wildrice , isn't that kind of the point, though? At some point you need to realize that falling into bed drunk at 3am isn't doing you good, and it might as well be in the relative safety of a college campus where there may be fewer consequences (like not getting fired). Regardless, some people are ready to live in dorms, or off campus, and some should probably live at home for a few years, but that's up to them with parental guidance. I went to school a few hours from my parents, but they would have been hesitant for me to go to school on the other side of the country (or a different country, except perhaps Canada). Some kids REALLY need to live at home and do CC for a few years. It would be nice if everyone had the choice of what was best for them, but they don't. Not at $400k. And the "dorm experience," while beneficial, isn't really worth that.
True, but I guess my point is really just that I don't think the dorm experience is critical in learning that. I think you could learn your limits living at home, in an apartment, etc, and if college costs are going to continue to climb I think we need to do away with the mindset that living in the dorms and spending a ton of money on housing, in addition to tuition, is critical. I just don't think it is.
In hindsight, I wish I had taken a gap year (which wasn't really a thing for middle class kids at that point anyway), attended a couple of years of community college, then transferred to a regular college once I had more direction on what I wanted to do. Some kids at 18 are very driven and ready to truly learn, but I think a lot of us end up wasting a bunch of time and money unnecessarily. I would love to see a cultural shift that makes it more normal for kids to take a lower cost path to their education and that allows them room to figure things out before investing tons of money into a 4 year college.
wildrice, isn't that kind of the point, though? At some point you need to realize that falling into bed drunk at 3am isn't doing you good, and it might as well be in the relative safety of a college campus where there may be fewer consequences (like not getting fired). Regardless, some people are ready to live in dorms, or off campus, and some should probably live at home for a few years, but that's up to them with parental guidance. I went to school a few hours from my parents, but they would have been hesitant for me to go to school on the other side of the country (or a different country, except perhaps Canada). Some kids REALLY need to live at home and do CC for a few years. It would be nice if everyone had the choice of what was best for them, but they don't. Not at $400k. And the "dorm experience," while beneficial, isn't really worth that.
Is that lesson worth $60,000 worth of debt (room and board fees for 4 years)? IMO, no, it’s not. Young adults will learn those lesson regardless of whether or not they live on campus.
Will we see the rise of the community college? My district and many others are offering dual enrollment programs in high school, in 5 years you graduate with your HS diploma and an associates degree--free of charge. Its really tempting, but I also wonder if the traditional 4 year experience away from home is beneficial in other ways. My H attended community college and transferred to a large state school and he really regrets not having the dorm experience. But is it worth the money if we will be looking at exhorbant prices?
I think we will. NJ has a great system in place where you can go to community college for two years and if you follow a particular curriculum and have a certain GPA (I don’t remember exactly what) you are able to continue at most of our 4 year state schools (Rutgers, Montclair, and a few others) without applying (saving a lot of money in application fees), you just matriculate in as a junior. I’ve already talked to my kids about using this option because it’s excellent.
And as we see increased numbers of PhDs who can’t get traditional academic positions community colleges have gone up in caliber from what I’ve seen. When I started grad school community college teaching was looked down on, but now I know a ton of people with incredible credentials choosing that path, which is great! H doesn’t do it now due to time, but his retirement plan is to teach at our community college.
Well yes I wasn’t including vocational schools or community colleges. I guess there is no exact definition? I just randomly looked up Swarthmore as I googled and it considers itself a liberal arts school. But under their lists of majors is biology for example and it specifically says, "we prepare students for careers in research and medicine." So it seems like some liberal arts schools do help you figure out a more specific career path.
I’m just harping on the definition just because when the article quotes statistics what colleges is this data coming from? Is it just 50 schools in the country or is it 500 for example? Are the smaller schools that aren’t considered liberal arts facing the same difficulties? Like I said above I never really knew the difference so that’s why I was confused.
I'm confused about this too (lol). You can get a liberal arts education at non-liberal arts colleges. And there are plenty of small schools that aren't liberal arts colleges. My undergrad was about 3,500 people, had a large focus on liberal arts majors, small classroom sizes, etc but I don't think it is considered a "liberal arts college".
Swarthmore looks like it includes natural sciences as part of their curriculum, hence the biology. I work at a liberal arts college that is part of a large state university and we only have humanities (English, philosophy, history) and social sciences (economics, psychology, political science). I think it's up to the institution to decide what fits into the criteria of liberal arts but most of our contemporaries have just humanities and social sciences as well. so, I guess I have contributed nothing, lol
Will we see the rise of the community college? My district and many others are offering dual enrollment programs in high school, in 5 years you graduate with your HS diploma and an associates degree--free of charge. Its really tempting, but I also wonder if the traditional 4 year experience away from home is beneficial in other ways. My H attended community college and transferred to a large state school and he really regrets not having the dorm experience. But is it worth the money if we will be looking at exhorbant prices?
I'm hopeful that this will be seen as an opportunity for community colleges. I think the general attitude toward them has been abysmal when they are truly an asset for students unable to afford a private or public university education, or have a "traditional" four year college experience.
In my own experience working in higher ed, it seems like public universities in my area no longer see or work with community colleges as feeder schools, even though there is legislation in place to keep students from losing credits in transfer situations. The relationship has broken down, so they're now in competition with one another for the incoming freshman classes. I don't know that, for people looking to get a degree for the purposes of employment and not necessarily continuing scholarship, a traditional university could compete with a community college that is able to award four year degrees.
I'm a community college grad who went on to finish my bachelors at a state school, but I did live in the dorms because it was simply easier for me than finding roommates/apartments. I think community colleges are a fantastic way to begin your college experience, especially if, like me, you're just not really sure what you want to do or study. And, I received state scholarships for transferring from a community college into an in-state public university, so you really couldn't beat the deal.
Honestly, I think the truth is most likely yes. Assuming they have a good idea.
My husband and I talk about this sometimes because we met at school and we had the traditional liberal arts, residential college experience and we both loved everything about it. But when we went, it was under 35k including room and board and we both had substantial scholarships making it cost even less. We both graduated without loans.
Although I loved the classes, the lack of course requirements, the breadth of course offerings, the small class sizes, and the professors' ability to give us individual attention, I don't think it is worth 75k a year or more. It just isn't. Especially if you have to take out loans. This trend is such a shame imho because these schools took a really great, wonderful experience that probably changed a lot of people's lives or at least greatly enhanced them and they completely ruined it. I don't think the next generation will get to have what we had and that is sad for them.
You don't even need a Shark Tank worthy, totally new idea. $400k could set you up NICELY with a franchise business if you do your due diligence, from which you can make enough to expand (especially if your kid is 18, 19, 20 and living at home with few of their own expenses), or get you a real leg up on investing in real estate (not just flips, but purchasing rental units). You could also take a small fraction of that and fund something they're interesting in making - pickles, cupcakes, candles, beer, jewelry, craft supplies - and see where that goes. Maybe they want to try farming and will develop relationships with local restaurants or producers or farmers' markets. There are still plenty of "old school" ways to make money as an independent producer that don't require college.
Or you could invest it in the stock market and likely draw $16K-$40K/year from it, depending on how agressive you want to be. That could supplement some other job quite nicely.
Post by sillygoosegirl on Oct 30, 2019 11:01:04 GMT -5
This is so fascinating. Seems kind of like a giant game of chicken. It also seems kind of like there's a new generation that was raised on this notion that a college education is always worth it. And that mentality seems like it leads to (some people) spending so much on college, to the point where it really doesn't seem like it could possibly be worth it. Seems to me pretty closely related to the for profit college situation, where people believe it will be worth it no matter what, so they are willing to take out big loans at for profit schools.
I'm really glad to hear, though, that a lot of this higher pricing is about funding students who can't afford it, not about schools being unable to figure out how to provide a good education at a reasonable price anymore. Makes me feel actually quite a lot better about how they are spending their money.
@@
Also kind of feels to me like a decent argument for free public higher education. All rich people should be helping pay for the next generation (not just their own offspring) to be educated, not just the ones who have children and send their children to private liberal arts colleges.
On another @ note, with college tuition prices rising so rapidly, it's impossible for me to justify giving to my alma mater. By the time I was 10 years out, the price had already doubled to $60K/year and I'm sure it's still going up, although I haven't checked in a while. My feeling is, "I don't know how I could possibly afford to send my child there or anywhere similar to where I went," so that's a huge turn off to feeling like my education put me in a position to give. Maybe the answer is that I'm not actually so rich that my child would need to pay full sticker price, but there's 14 more years before we'll find out.
Will we see the rise of the community college? My district and many others are offering dual enrollment programs in high school, in 5 years you graduate with your HS diploma and an associates degree--free of charge. Its really tempting, but I also wonder if the traditional 4 year experience away from home is beneficial in other ways. My H attended community college and transferred to a large state school and he really regrets not having the dorm experience. But is it worth the money if we will be looking at exhorbant prices?
I live very close to our community college so this summer I decided to look online at what they teach there. I was shocked at how cheap it was. Like why wouldn’t someone do a year or two there and then transfer? Then I looked at the pre-requisites to go to dental school. Many schools state there is a limit to how many credits can be from a CC, some even say they won’t consider any classes taken there especially pre-read. This is dumb because dental school costs a fortune these days. I’m going to guess Med school and other health science professionals schools are going to be similar in their approach. I know when I was in college it was really looked down upon to do your science pre-reqs over the summer at the CC. One of my college classmates got accepted early (fall of sophomore year) to the local SUNY Med school and had taken more than the usual amount of science pre-reqs at the CC. There was an uproar because there was the possibility she had a higher science GPA than the other candidates because she didn’t stay on campus and hack it in the hard science classes with us. She’s now an ophthalmologist so I don’t think CC was an issue.
Will we see the rise of the community college? My district and many others are offering dual enrollment programs in high school, in 5 years you graduate with your HS diploma and an associates degree--free of charge. Its really tempting, but I also wonder if the traditional 4 year experience away from home is beneficial in other ways. My H attended community college and transferred to a large state school and he really regrets not having the dorm experience. But is it worth the money if we will be looking at exhorbant prices?
I live very close to our community college so this summer I decided to look online at what they teach there. I was shocked at how cheap it was. Like why wouldn’t someone do a year or two there and then transfer? Then I looked at the pre-requisites to go to dental school. Many schools state there is a limit to how many credits can be from a CC, some even say they won’t consider any classes taken there especially pre-read. This is dumb because dental school costs a fortune these days. I’m going to guess Med school and other health science professionals schools are going to be similar in their approach. I know when I was in college it was really looked down upon to do your science pre-reqs over the summer at the CC. One of my college classmates got accepted early (fall of sophomore year) to the local SUNY Med school and had taken more than the usual amount of science pre-reqs at the CC. There was an uproar because there was the possibility she had a higher science GPA than the other candidates because she didn’t stay on campus and hack it in the hard science classes with us. She’s now an ophthalmologist so I don’t think CC was an issue.
So this is a sticky issue because accreditation is often the limiting factor in this. Even basic regional accreditation requires a certain (highish) number of credits to be taken at the accrediting institutions. Yes there are some institutions that are overly-punitive towards transfer credits, but the majority are accepting
However, it's even more important for specialized accreditation like those required for medical degrees. And while I have no doubt that money and snobbery is an undercurrent of this, the main reason is the oversight of what these important careers are being taught. Colleges that hold specialized accredidations are standing behind those students abilities to excel in those careers, and if they took the majority of foundational courses elsewhere, it's difficult to ensure learning to the extent needed.
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”
Post by pinkdutchtulips on Oct 30, 2019 22:38:00 GMT -5
I didn’t the JC live at home and come out of the 1st 2 years of college debt free THEN a transfer to a flagship state school 6 hours away and I yes I lived on campus all 3 years I was there. Could I have transferred to a school closer - maybe but that closer flagship state school was CAL and I REALLY wanted to get away from home
Will we see the rise of the community college? My district and many others are offering dual enrollment programs in high school, in 5 years you graduate with your HS diploma and an associates degree--free of charge. Its really tempting, but I also wonder if the traditional 4 year experience away from home is beneficial in other ways. My H attended community college and transferred to a large state school and he really regrets not having the dorm experience. But is it worth the money if we will be looking at exhorbant prices?
I live very close to our community college so this summer I decided to look online at what they teach there. I was shocked at how cheap it was. Like why wouldn’t someone do a year or two there and then transfer?
Stigma. I was a smart kid but came from a poorer family. I wanted to go to the best school I could get into and could afford to attend even with student loans, period. Never mind the added pressure of being born to immigrants who weren't well-educated in their home country. CC wasn't good enough for me. I hate myself for having that mentality at age 17 but I do hope that stigma has been decreasing since I went to college.
However, I know we're talking about CCs and how great they are, but I also felt like we (collective "we") were having this conversation right after the recession began too; that CCs would be flooded with more students. I honestly haven't checked data on this to see if 1) that actually happened, and 2) what the outcomes were (did they move on to 4-year programs? did they get into solid careers? etc.). So I am wondering if we truly will see more students going to CCs in the next several years.
I live very close to our community college so this summer I decided to look online at what they teach there. I was shocked at how cheap it was. Like why wouldn’t someone do a year or two there and then transfer?
Stigma. I was a smart kid but came from a poorer family. I wanted to go to the best school I could get into and could afford to attend even with student loans, period. Never mind the added pressure of being born to immigrants who weren't well-educated in their home country. CC wasn't good enough for me. I hate myself for having that mentality at age 17 but I do hope that stigma has been decreasing since I went to college.
However, I know we're talking about CCs and how great they are, but I also felt like we (collective "we") were having this conversation right after the recession began too; that CCs would be flooded with more students. I honestly haven't checked data on this to see if 1) that actually happened, and 2) what the outcomes were (did they move on to 4-year programs? did they get into solid careers? etc.). So I am wondering if we truly will see more students going to CCs in the next several years.
I don't know the answer to your second question, but I know there was an all-time high enrollment in CCs nationwide around 2010 - 2012 that while did dip after has stayed very high since.
“With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent,”
I live very close to our community college so this summer I decided to look online at what they teach there. I was shocked at how cheap it was. Like why wouldn’t someone do a year or two there and then transfer?
Stigma. I was a smart kid but came from a poorer family. I wanted to go to the best school I could get into and could afford to attend even with student loans, period. Never mind the added pressure of being born to immigrants who weren't well-educated in their home country. CC wasn't good enough for me. I hate myself for having that mentality at age 17 but I do hope that stigma has been decreasing since I went to college.
However, I know we're talking about CCs and how great they are, but I also felt like we (collective "we") were having this conversation right after the recession began too; that CCs would be flooded with more students. I honestly haven't checked data on this to see if 1) that actually happened, and 2) what the outcomes were (did they move on to 4-year programs? did they get into solid careers? etc.). So I am wondering if we truly will see more students going to CCs in the next several years.
The stigma is a big problem. I went to junior college then to a public ivy, and the kids who had gone there since they were freshmen spent a lot of time reminding transfers that they were less than.
I attended a small liberal arts college and now teach at one. I realize that cost is a huge issue that needs to be addressed (and maybe this is how the market addresses it), but FWIW I am a huge believer in the power of a liberal arts education for developing students into critical and creative thinkers. This has definitely panned out well for me and most of my friends that I went to college with. Of course, a liberal arts education completely devoid of any career resources would be a bad idea, but nowadays LACs are focused on career counseling and articulating how liberal arts skills are important in the workplace. Sure, you can get a very good education at many different types of institutions but the model of teaching at a LAC can't be beat IMO. On the other hand, a 10:1 student-faculty ratio is very expensive, and I do hate the idea of LACs becoming solely the domain of the wealthy. At a teaching conference a few weeks ago, a colleague from Australia commented "You Americans are so funny with your 'big' classes of 100 students! Our big classes have over 1000 students!" I can't help but think that something is lost when you don't know your professor and you're taking classes in a stadium.
I THRIVED in the LAC environment. The small classes, professors knowing my name and engaging me in discussions etc. I was a shy, small town girl and I absolutely came out of my shell. I took on leadership rolls, internships etc. And yes the push to be a critical thinker.
I attended a small liberal arts college and now teach at one. I realize that cost is a huge issue that needs to be addressed (and maybe this is how the market addresses it), but FWIW I am a huge believer in the power of a liberal arts education for developing students into critical and creative thinkers. This has definitely panned out well for me and most of my friends that I went to college with. Of course, a liberal arts education completely devoid of any career resources would be a bad idea, but nowadays LACs are focused on career counseling and articulating how liberal arts skills are important in the workplace. Sure, you can get a very good education at many different types of institutions but the model of teaching at a LAC can't be beat IMO. On the other hand, a 10:1 student-faculty ratio is very expensive, and I do hate the idea of LACs becoming solely the domain of the wealthy. At a teaching conference a few weeks ago, a colleague from Australia commented "You Americans are so funny with your 'big' classes of 100 students! Our big classes have over 1000 students!" I can't help but think that something is lost when you don't know your professor and you're taking classes in a stadium.
I THRIVED in the LAC environment. The small classes, professors knowing my name and engaging me in discussions etc. I was a shy, small town girl and I absolutely came out of my shell. I took on leadership rolls, internships etc. And yes the push to be a critical thinker.
Ditto. I went to a pretty rigorous college that I wasn't necessarily prepared for academically (on scholarship) and I cant imagine I would have had the individualized classroom attention that helped me thrive and come into my own in a larger college environment. My writing and critical thinking skills grew exponentially with a lot of individual coaching and I feel lucky I didn’t slip through the cracks.
Stigma. I was a smart kid but came from a poorer family. I wanted to go to the best school I could get into and could afford to attend even with student loans, period. Never mind the added pressure of being born to immigrants who weren't well-educated in their home country. CC wasn't good enough for me. I hate myself for having that mentality at age 17 but I do hope that stigma has been decreasing since I went to college.
However, I know we're talking about CCs and how great they are, but I also felt like we (collective "we") were having this conversation right after the recession began too; that CCs would be flooded with more students. I honestly haven't checked data on this to see if 1) that actually happened, and 2) what the outcomes were (did they move on to 4-year programs? did they get into solid careers? etc.). So I am wondering if we truly will see more students going to CCs in the next several years.
The stigma is a big problem. I went to junior college then to a public ivy, and the kids who had gone there since they were freshmen spent a lot of time reminding transfers that they were less than.
I thought the Ivy league was the upper echelon of critical thinking lol
The stigma is a big problem. I went to junior college then to a public ivy, and the kids who had gone there since they were freshmen spent a lot of time reminding transfers that they were less than.
I thought the Ivy league was the upper echelon of critical thinking lol
I, probably irrationally, hate the term "public ivy."