Puppy tips/help - especially large dog!

[dochas]

Hello! Does anyone have some good ideas for indoor puppy play? He's 4 months old, large and definitely struggling with teething. Redirection is not always successful because you try to walk away from play when the biting begins and he just starts pulling on your clothes. He has sharp teeth and will easily tear our clothes. 

Some specific questions - how many toys do you have out for your puppy? Is it okay to be using food based toys a lot? How much is too much? I'm not worried about calories, I just don't know if that counts as us interacting with him? I'm happy to throw his ball and squeak toys, but it at some point (very quickly) it just switches to mouthing again. 

I've never had a dog before. My son wants to do as much with the dog as he can but he's only 9. My husband walks the dog early and puts him back in the crate and doesn't return until 6. I feel like I'm on my own here and failing. Do I need a million toys? Can I give him some kind of frozen Kong treat whenever the biting starts? I got one of those Nina Ottson things but I don't really think they're made for large dogs!

[Deleted]

Honestly, we have a million toys. I'm sitting at my desk in the office/basement and just did a quick count and there are literally 8 toys on the floor around me. We have three dogs, including a 10 week old puppy, so they get played with a lot. The favorites always seem to be toys with squeakers, but my one dog makes it her life's mission to pull them all out LOL It's tough with teething puppies, but it's important to stop play if they ever start being mouthy with you. I like to have toys within reach when we're playing, and if the puppy starts to try to bite me, I stop, tell her no, and then give her a toy to play with. We had a lot of problems with one dog being mouthy until she was about 1 year old, because she was our first and we didn't stop it when she was young so it was a harder habit to break. We don't really use food based toys except for when we put her in the crate, and then we use a Kong with a couple of high reward treats inside with some frozen peanut butter over the end for her to work on. We do try not to use her crate and her room as punishment spots, because we want her to have positive associations with those areas, but I have heard that sometimes completely removing them from a situation if distraction isn't working can help. Good luck!

[Jalapeñomel]

We were always told that more toys, leads to more chewing of things that are not toys. I don’t know if that’s true or not.

Puppies need redirection ALL the time. Keep doing it over and over again. So much repetition.

[5thofjuly]

First, as the mom of a puppy, let me just say that they are assholes- adorable assholes. And, the reason they're so cute is so you don't send them packing with a little knapsack tied to a stick with a peanut butter sandwich in it. That said, it DOES get better. At 8 months old, our pup is pretty much a good boy. BUT, at 4 months, we wondered what the hell we had done. In fact, DH had forgotten that puppies are like this (assuming our last old man dog just came home sleeping on our bed 22 hours a day but not taking like 40 pills) was worried we either got a broken one or ruined our lives for the next 15+ years.

For us, what helped with the biting was 1., he just matured and 2., every.single.time he nipped us, we would either yip like a hurt dog and curl into a ball, ignoring him, or stand up and walk to where he couldn't be with us (like the bathroom.) We also made sure to have out plenty of safe toys that we encouraged him to chew on. We froze wet washcloths during that time period and let him have those to soothe his gums.

We have a shelf of toys that we rotate through, but, at any given time, we have out 5 or 6. What kinds of food based toys do you have? Like feeding puzzles? If so, his regular meal amounts could go into them. We save a frozen Kong full of cottage cheese or Greek Yogurt for after our evening walk. It's part of our signal (along with dimming the lights) that it's time to start settling down. I don't know that I'd want to give him a treat for biting you---you want a negative association with biting (no more fun time) rather than "If I nip, I get a treat!"

[wildrice]

How big? Is your son able to take him for walks? When I had a puppy, the biggest thing that helped was wearing her out on walks. I used to walk her like 2 hours a day when she was really young. She was a golden retriever and really high energy, though. I think that level was necessary only for her first year or so. Having too much pent up energy may be a reason why he's chewing - he needs to do SOMETHING - so wearing him out will likely help.

For chewing, getting good, attractive toys to chew helps. My dog would shred soft toys but did well with things like nylabones, kongs, and actual bones. Puppies and rawhide are not a good mix but I think most harder bones are fine and would keep her occupied. I also just had to be really, really careful about leaving things laying around. Anything that could go into her mouth would, so removing temptation was the best way to save my stuff.

Being consistent with stopping interaction when biting and saying "no" honestly does work, it just takes time. Puppies are adorable little assholes and a lot of it honestly is just waiting for them to grow out of it. My dog was absolutely insane as a puppy and I always said she was lucky she was cute, because I don't know if we both would have survived it otherwise. But she grew into a lovely dog who I miss dearly (she passed away a few years ago). I yet to have any interest in getting another puppy, though, lol. And it's been 16 years!

ETA: I didn't even see that the post above mine said they are adorable assholes too when I posted, lol. It is definitely true!

[dochas]

Thank you, guys. It helps more than you can imagine. I was prepared to give him tons and tons of time, but I had no idea that most of it would just be miserable. It's been hard to get outdoor exercise because it's usually 98 degrees and he cannot take the heat. I take him in the yard in the morning and at lunch when it's not raining. There's no way to walk away from him. If you ignore him he goes for your clothes. If I were to leave the room he'll go for anything he can grab, so the only thing I've been able to do now is put him in the crate. I was hoping to find new ways of keeping him occupied, because I don't want to keep doing that. I'd be happy to throw his ball 100 times but he'll go for it 5 times and then look for something to mess with. I wasn't thinking of using treats to stop the biting, I'm trying to think of things that will keep him engaged instead of biting.

I tried the wet frozen dishtowel yesterday, but he was able to tear it apart. I'll try it with a stronger fabric. I am thinking that one of us is just broken.

I wouldn't let my son walk him on his own. Hew grew out of his last harness and the new one is a little too big so he's wearing a collar and I worry he'd pull out of it. I'd walk him all day, but it's so hot he just runs back inside. My husband is the same way with the puppy thing. He's had 2 shepherds and says they didn't even have toys. I told him he has to look for a trainer. I just can't go on this way. That's not to say I would ever, ever get rid of him. I'm just so unhappy and I'm afraid he will be too. Everything else sucks, I can't live with not having a happy puppy.

[Deleted]

dochas, is he fully vaccinated? Would taking him to a dog park or doggy day care 1-2 days a week be an option? Both for socialization and to help burn off some of that puppy energy?

[dochas]

Aug 13, 2020 12:04:56 GMT -5 @sameoldstory said:

dochas , is he fully vaccinated? Would taking him to a dog park or doggy day care 1-2 days a week be an option? Both for socialization and to help burn off some of that puppy energy?

He just finished his vaccinations. Maybe I could look at a doggy daycare. Any kind of park is just too hot. I work 3 days a week. He's crated for 3.5 hours, I come home for an hour to walk and play with him, then he's crated for 3-3.5 hours. I do camp pick up before and after work. Maybe one of those days I could bring him somewhere. I worry about him being so young though. I feel like everything's on me (Because it is!) and I'm at the end of my rope. There is just no rope left. I'm sure everyone can relate!

[flygirl]

We did puppy daycare 3x a week when they were little (and I was at the office)-that tires them out and helps socialize them with other dogs.

[Deleted]

Aug 13, 2020 12:11:28 GMT -5 dochas said:

Aug 13, 2020 12:04:56 GMT -5 @sameoldstory said:

dochas , is he fully vaccinated? Would taking him to a dog park or doggy day care 1-2 days a week be an option? Both for socialization and to help burn off some of that puppy energy?

He just finished his vaccinations. Maybe I could look at a doggy daycare. Any kind of park is just too hot. I work 3 days a week. He's crated for 3.5 hours, I come home for an hour to walk and play with him, then he's crated for 3-3.5 hours. I do camp pick up before and after work. Maybe one of those days I could bring him somewhere. I worry about him being so young though. I feel like everything's on me (Because it is!) and I'm at the end of my rope. There is just no rope left. I'm sure everyone can relate!

It's good for young pups to be around older dogs. Not only does it help the puppy socialize, but the older dogs help to teach them the ropes. Puppies are used to playing with their siblings where it's no holds barred, they don't really understand appropriate play. Having them around older dogs will help to each them that. If you can swing it, I would definitely recommend it. 

[huskymom]

Ditto doggy daycare!

My dog was like that too- he will grow out of it if you are consistent with the redirection but I know it is so trying..we had so many regrets at first and she was 9 months when we got her! Now she’s 12 and lays around all day.

[mrsukyankee]

I'd like you to also know that once he starts losing his puppy teeth, he'll start to bite a lot less as long as you keep working with him on this - Cooper is 21 weeks old and at 20 weeks, it's like a switch happened. We just redirected, redirected, redirected. We made sure to have a toy in every room (at least one). We also discovered that he bit more when he was tired, so we made sure to force him to rest often (we use a playpen). We stopped play as soon as he bit us and put him in the playpen as a timeout. Good luck!

[glitzy07]

I was going to suggest some kind of social play with another dog too, whether through a park/daycare/a friend's dog. We have a 4.5 month old pup who loves playing with her cousin dog (my sister lives next door and has a 5yo Great Dane). Our pup LOVES it and gets nice and tired out for the evening when we let them wrestle around with each other.

[fumbalina]

When my big dog (90 lb lab boxer) was a puppy, we had all kinds of issues with her. She was a heavy chewer even up to the last week of her life.

When she was a puppy, I would hand her something I approved for chewing every time she mouthed me. It only took a few weeks for her to figure out that was what she should chew. I kept them readily available for her for the first four years of her life.

In order to wear her out, we would do puppy push-ups. Basically, it is sit down, lay down, sit down, for at least twenty minutes. We also did hide and go seek, where my husband or I would hide behind a door and have her run around the house trying to locate us. This method also helps them learn to come when you are not playing it because they get used to coming to their name.

She was super food motivated so it was easy to train her. She was this way until I had to put her down at 16.

My other dog was a hyperactive puppy and the only thing that helped with him was running, whether it was outside, after a toy, or after escaping. I followed him once and discovered he ran a 5-minute mile lol. I did get some mental games for him, and that helped some. He did not like food puzzles, so it was harder to find something to engage him.

[juliachild]

I agree with what has already been said. Another thing that wears a puppy out is training. My pup had so much energy and was very food motivated. We would go over the same tricks over and over again. A good thing to teach right now would be "leave it". That could help with the biting. My pup was gaining too much weight and always hungry, so we use carrots for treats.

[dochas]

Thank you everyone. It's good to hear that other people have struggled through this stage! I mean, not good. LOL But it gives me hope that it will pass at some point. He's lost 2 little teeth, the vet said the big ones will be worse. Great! One thing that helps is that my son suffered so much with teething that I do feel bad for our pup. It must be absolutely maddening for him. It's just rough when it's a bad teething period and the weather doesn't allow for him to race around our yard at top speed!

He LOVES food. I'm going to start being more liberal with the treats for training. Right now he picks up something he shouldn't have and then it's a big game to get me to chase him for it. Not only do I not want to play this game, but it's not one I can win long-term, and it's unsafe! I'm going to use treats to get him to "drop it" or "leave it". He responds to the treats almost immediately. He's been biting when I put his leash on too, or biting on the leash. I read that you have to get them really used to touching the collar for safety reasons. So I'm trying to give treats as I touch his collar. The treats I've been using for that and the potty training are really tiny and his weight is good so I don't have to worry about his weight now, and we'll be going for monthly weight checks. He likes carrots too! I don't know if he would drop a shoe for one, but I make him little chicken puppy pops and put carrot bits in them. A training thing that I was using said to use a highly desired treat for a certain thing. I laughed because I don't think he cares - a piece of his own kibble is a treat in his little eyes!

[waverly]

I would suggest dog training. I’m doing that right now with our dog. She is one, so she is not as bad as a puppy, but she’d never been trained. She definitely has her bratty moments. Our trainer does 3 one on one sessions and now we are doing group sessions. It is in a large garage with both doors open so it’s like being outside, and we are social distanced so it’s been OK covid risk wise.

[dochas]

Aug 14, 2020 14:05:39 GMT -5 waverly said:

I would suggest dog training. I’m doing that right now with our dog. She is one, so she is not as bad as a puppy, but she’d never been trained. She definitely has her bratty moments. Our trainer does 3 one on one sessions and now we are doing group sessions. It is in a large garage with both doors open so it’s like being outside, and we are social distanced so it’s been OK covid risk wise.

Thank you! I told my husband to research a trainer. He's very much a "we never had to do that!" person, which is infuriating in many ways. He sees after this week that this is a problem for me and our son, so even though he will likely not be able to find one and I'll have to do it myself, he will at least not go on and on about how unnecessary it is. It would be good to have one come to the house for one one one initially so we don't have to worry about a 1 person limit at group ones. I would like to do group as well so he can meet other dogs. We don't know anyone with a puppy and it's the worst time to try meet up with strangers!

[waverly]

My parents always trained our dogs too. They never had a trainer. But they used methods that are harsher than we would prefer. And my mom was a stay at home mom. My dad liked to hunt and spent all weekend training the dog to work together with him (Labrador retrievers).

[bunnies]

I feel ya. Ours will be 12 weeks old tomorrow. It's freakin' exhausting.


Recent things I've discovered that have helped:

Tug Rope - wet and freeze
Carrot ice - chopped up carrot bits in ice cube tray
Giant Ice Ball - like the kind you put in cocktails
Ice straight out of the freezer
Food filled toy - I usually fill with chopped carrots, some string cheese, some kibble and seal with peanut butter or cream cheese
LOTS of yipping/squealing/screaming when bit and redirect to appropriate chew toy
Doing the "Zak George - let's turn this energy into a training session!"
Click Training - she responds extremely well to this

[stephm0188]

Yeeeeah that was a rough stage with our lab. I lost some of my favorite clothes to his sharp puppy teeth. We'd yelp, turn and walk away, and then redirect with a toy.

We kept toys out everywhere all over the place because he would chew on everything... baseboards, furniture, shoes. It was easier to redirect his attention to a toy if we had them readily available. We combined that with clicker training and treats. Once he started chewing the toy instead of us/furniture/object, we'd click and give a treat. Once he started associating his toys with a positive reward, he tapered off on the chewing and biting.

[Doggy Mommy]

I think you have some great advice. A tired puppy is a happy puppy - but it's also really difficult, especially if it's too hot for them to be outside for long and they're only running for 5 minutes due to a puppy attention span. Doggy daycare a couple times a week is a great idea. We had a big(ish) pen in the living room. When she got naughty and bitey, we would put her in the pen. She cried the first couple times while I ignored her, then when she calmed down I let her out. She's smart and got the idea quickly. That ended up being a good way to let her know she was getting too crazy and needed to chill out without using her kennel as a punishment. But that would be really hard with a big dog, I think. Another thing that tired her out was training. She seemed to need the mental exhaustion in addition to physical exhaustion. If you aren't going to a training class once a week and practicing in between, I would recommend it. :-)

ETA: Our dog who was mostly a really "good" puppy tore apart my adorable yellow leather Frye flats and the dog sitter's sandals and bra. It's a tough stage! It'll get better though.

[orangello]

You know what? This is the worst thread ever. How are there ZERO pics of these puppies?!

[mrsukyankee]

orangello, here's my big ball of fluff helping my H to build me a desk...

[litebright]

So another option that exists -- but can be super expensive, just warning you -- is to send the dog for training. Either on a daily/occasional basis, or for like a week or two at what's basically a doggie boarding school. You learn about how they are trained and how to maintain the training once the dog is home. There may be options along those lines in your area. Or something like a doggie daycare where they also work on training. Or trainers willing to work with the dog with or without you. Obviously the best option is for you to be the one doing the actual training, but sometimes there are situations where outsourcing is better than not-training and group classes (cheapest option) may be iffy or hard to find right now.

I mention it mostly because no one else has, and it sounds like your H might not be on-board, which IMO is ridiculous. This is part of the cost of owning a dog, especially a puppy! I really, really think you need to talk to a trainer. A private one, or someone at your local animal shelter, etc. You've never had a dog before and you are the one with the dog most of the time, it sounds like -- how are you supposed to know what to do? These are habits that sure, might get better once he's through teething -- or they might persist, if he likes the attention/reaction. They could get worse, which would be miserable for everybody. Or they could change into something else, and knowing how to effectively encourage/discourage behaviors is really important.

I guarantee you are not the only one in this situation -- there are a ton of pandemic puppies! -- so hopefully there are some trainers in your area who have figured out how to meet the training needs. We got our current dog as a roughly 7-8 month-old puppy (so not even as young as yours) a couple of years ago, and TBH I was shocked at how much more work we had to do with behavior, compared to the previous dogs we'd adopted at a year+. And I grew up with dogs and have always had at least one. It was so frustrating to do things over and over and over and over and have her *still* not respond the way we wanted her to. It did get better eventually and with training, but having guidance from a trainer helped *me* get through the tough parts as much as it helped my dog.

[dochas]

Thank you all - everything here is so helpful! I don't know if I mentioned, but he's a German Shepherd. We really want to do the training ourselves instead of the outsourcing. My husband looked for trainers and the most readily available is someone at our local Petsmart. Our vet actually recommended them, at least to start with. We're going to look into a group one so he can socialize with other puppies, but we're going to do some private sessions immediately. He's a great dog and very smart and it's a critical time to not make mistakes. We've been praising when he goes for chew toys instead of furniture, but it did not even occur to me to reward at those times with food. That is part of the problem of me not knowing dogs I think! We're all very willing and eager to train and he'll really enjoy that, but we definitely need some professional guidance and a plan.

My husband isn't anti-training, he just hasn't seen that it's necessary. But we are with the dog under very different circumstances. The 3 of us picked the dog up and drove home with him and my husband took a few days off so we could all settle him in together. He bonded to us all very quickly and he's definitely happiest when all 3 of us are in his sight. My husband is only with him when all 3 of us are, and it's in the evening when he's already tired. He has no idea what he's like when he's wound up. And while we do crate him on the weekends when we go out and to keep him in the routine of being crated, it isn't the same thing as the 3 days I work when there's less time for everything and a lot more pressure. If I saw the dog on a Saturday, I wouldn't think we needed a trainer either!

Anyway - we're going to do an evaluation with the trainer this afternoon. We'll probably book a half hour session with this trainer, and as long as it feels right we're going to do an additional 4 session private pkg and go from there. I'm excited! Also, orangello , here's a picture of our fluffy beast!

[dochas]

orangello , Found the attachment button. LOL

Attachments:

[orangello]

Those ears 😍😍

[waverly]

German Shepard puppies in my opinion are very mouthy. Training definitely helped my sister’s dog as well as just maturity.

[So_Fetch]

100% agree with daycare. Even if it's one day a week. Older dogs will put puppy in his place so he learns not to chomp and mouth as hard. Bully sticks were really good for our large puppy too. He was super motivated to enjoy his crate and quiet time.

What also worked well with him was making a Yelp noise when he bit too hard, like his littermates might. We also would make a uhuh noise that he still responds really well to (like a buzzer sound almost)

And you didn't ask this part, but if you aren't already, consider feeding puppy large breed puppy food. It really helps them to grow a bit slower allowing the growth plates to form nice and strong. We didn't know that when we had our first large breed puppy...he grew really fast and has always had problems with his legs/joints being weak.