@ Reimagining education - what would you like to see?

[fortnightlily]

I don't have any academic background on this whatsoever, but we've long known the deficiencies of our current educational models for PreK-12. The classroom experience and schedule has changed little since my own parents (who are in their 70s) were kids. Yes, more tech in the classroom, but the same basic structure of 20+ kids in a classroom sitting at desks all day rotating through subjects from 7 or 8am until between 2 and 4pm from September through June.

The pandemic has gotten a lot of people thinking about whether we should try to return to 'normal' or use this as an opportunity to reimagine a lot of aspects about how we educate our kids.

Assuming the funding was there, if you were redesigning public PreK-12 from the bottom up, what would you like to see?

Here are my thoughts:

• Year-round. Build in a 1-3 week break every quarter, at least, but not the 2.5 months off once a year we do now.
• More time spent outdoors
• More flexibility for self-paced learning, including mixing of ages
• Let teachers teach, but have childcare workers and social workers around every day to monitor kids during non-instructional times. Have facilities open for infants-PreK, and from 6am to 6pm.
• Robust virtual learning programs for kids who prefer to learn from home, or who are out sick, or just want to supplement subjects asynchronously
• Have neighborhood-centered school buildings/campuses function more like community centers, with food pantries, all-weather recreational facilities, libraries, and basic health center available to all.

[hocus2]

The pressing issues I see are:
1. Class size. I would love to see caps at 25 for K to 8.

2. Actual implementation of special education laws and best practices.

3. Extended hours, free or tier-cost after school.

4. Better recess, gym, enrichment (art, music etc) policies.

5. Ensure that schools are equitable. Some of that is solving the funding issues that arise from local tax issues funding schools. However that alone is not the sole issue - in NYC all school have a common fund aside from Parent Associations* but we still see large differences in school quality that ties to income and racial make up. We don't really know how to best solve for the persistent gap in schools. A lot has been tried with mixed results. *There are some examples of parents associations here raising a ton of money this is generally the exception not the norm. Around here 3 schools raise a lot and really impact their school but most raise amounts like 5K on a student population of 600 which is like $8 per student on average.

6. Evidence or fact based instruction. A lot of instruction is not based on sound practice (our reading program was totally awful and not based on the huge amount of research on how kids actually learn to read) or not based on accurate facts (e.g. history). Homework is another good example of where practices aren't tied to research about its effectiveness.

7. Reduce or provide staff to address the administrative burden on teachers. Teachers spend a huge amount of time on paperwork that doesn't actually drive instruction. Some of it can be eliminated and some of it could be transitioned to an aid role freeing up teachers.

8. Teacher pay needs to be addressed in certain states. Around here teachers do earn a solid middle class income especially if they stick it out a few years. But in a lot of states they do not make enough.

[atarianna]

I personally hate standardized testing. The testing itself doesn’t bother me as much as teachers having to teach to the test instead of age appropriate learning. Also having school ratings and sometimes funding tied to testing (that’s a thing, right?) shouldn’t happen.

[waverly]

Actually funding is a main issue. I don't know we can assume it away. It is the primary reason that inner city school districts do not do as well. That and corruption and too powerful teacher unions. And I am pro-union, but some unions are too powerful and don't put the student first.

[fortnightlily]

Jan 27, 2021 10:44:46 GMT -5 mofongo said:

I don’t have kids but I am a social worker. Why would social workers needs to monitor the kids? Do you mean do some type of activity or group with them. I could see that being ok maybe once a week.

As it stands now one social worker covers multiple public schools on a consult basis, at least as far as I know from colleagues in school.

I guess I meant more just making sure ample social workers are available for when they're needed, so that teachers don't have to try to fill that role as well.

[fortnightlily]

Jan 27, 2021 10:53:46 GMT -5 waverly said:

Actually funding is a main issue. I don't know we can assume it away. It is the primary reason that inner city school districts do not do as well. That and corruption and too powerful teacher unions. And I am pro-union, but some unions are too powerful and don't put the student first.

Yeah, of course. I was curious as more of a thought exercise, not to take what we have today and fix it, but if you were dropping in and building a modern education system from scratch, what would it look like.

[hocus2]

Jan 27, 2021 10:53:46 GMT -5 waverly said:

Actually funding is a main issue. I don't know we can assume it away. It is the primary reason that inner city school districts do not do as well. That and corruption and too powerful teacher unions. And I am pro-union, but some unions are too powerful and don't put the student first.

  NPR ran a great series on funding and where it does and does not matter. But more money or equally split doesn't always solve issues. I live in NYC where money is pooled across the city so low income and high income get the same money per student and lower income schools often get extra from the city and the federal government. We still see big gaps.

  www.npr.org/series/473636949/schoolmoney

[abs]

Schools need more funding, period.

In my dream world I’d like to see all the money spent on standardized testing (seriously it’s absurd!) be allocated directly to schools to help with teacher pay, technology updates, building updates, and some old fashioned fun.

[fortnightlily]

Jan 27, 2021 10:50:29 GMT -5 atarianna said:

I personally hate standardized testing. The testing itself doesn’t bother me as much as teachers having to teach to the test instead of age appropriate learning. Also having school ratings and sometimes funding tied to testing (that’s a thing, right?) shouldn’t happen.

Totally agree, though I wonder what the alternative is, kind of. How do you measure whether kids are proficient, ready to tackle more advanced subjects, need more help, etc.? Just leave it up to teacher/families to determine subjectively? Then how do you ensure that the meaning of 'proficient' isn't wildly different across the country?

[VillainV]

Jan 27, 2021 11:05:15 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

Jan 27, 2021 10:50:29 GMT -5 atarianna said:

I personally hate standardized testing. The testing itself doesn’t bother me as much as teachers having to teach to the test instead of age appropriate learning. Also having school ratings and sometimes funding tied to testing (that’s a thing, right?) shouldn’t happen.

Totally agree, though I wonder what the alternative is, kind of. How do you measure whether kids are proficient, ready to tackle more advanced subjects, need more help, etc.? Just leave it up to teacher/families to determine subjectively? Then how do you ensure that the meaning of 'proficient' isn't wildly different across the country?

The way we assess student learning, from my kid’s first grade weekly spelling tests, up through the ACT/SAT are very problematic. I’d love to see a complete overhaul.

[omgzombies]

I'd be happy just to start with addressing teacher pay and capping classroom size. 20 kids. 20. If I thought it was realistic getting it down to 15 students, that would actually be my preference. I distinctly remember every class I had that had less than 20 kids in it. The group dynamics and ability to learn and actually engage in a small class a student were astronomically different than in my classes of 25 to 35 kids.

Year round school, and more outdoor time would probably be my next two areas of focus.

[Dumbledork]

Oh, I have a list. Whether it’s realistic or doable is a different story.

-Pediatric health care on campus or nearby with priority use for school. Complete with mental health aid, sick child care, eye exams, dental, puberty edu and sex ed classes

-ECEC on campus and considered part of public education
-Laws for textbook creation to ensure equity and honest retelling of history
-Smaller class sizes. Even smaller if the school is in an area where repeat trauma is high
-Compatible work and school hours
-More hands-on education through community partners/organizations
-Available, but not required summer options

-Better teacher support, to include pay, benefits, continued education support, supplies
-Better college student support to bring more diversity to the teacher workforce
-Reno buildings
-No homework
-More recess
-Revamp dress codes
-Better internet access at home
-NO UNIFORMS

I’m sure there’s more, but I’m blanking right now.

[jamaicam]

I'd love there to be more space for individual research/interests.

When my kids were first sent home from school, my mum (who is a trained teacher) helped me to develop themes each week based on their interest. For eg, one week was astronomy. So we did astronomy related reading, maths, science and history. My kids loved and it they both learnt a lot during that time. my 6 year old's reading came on a lot more in that period than it did in regular school when he was reading about the cat sat on a mat or other thigns he wasnt interested in.

[dutchgirl678]

I grew up in Europe, so that impacts my views. I agree with you with shorter summer breaks. In Europe, we got 6 weeks in the summer. Then we got one week in the fall, two weeks for Xmas, one week in Feb/March, two weeks in May.

I want schools to get enough funding to buy supplies for kids instead of parents and teachers.

Smaller classrooms, no more than 25.

[sugarbear]

Off the top of my head:
-more time outside, both for education and recreation / recess
-more PE / Art / Music
-more offerings of world languages
-higher standards for textbooks, specifically those that whitewash history
-encourage kid to read outside the canon of dead white authors
-student choice built into written assessments*
-get rid of standardized testing, or revamp to make it more authentic
-more tech in classrooms, accompanied by social emotional lessons about managing technology
-better pay for teachers. Truly, I earn enough, I guess. But we need to end the practice of paltry entry level teacher salaries so that we can recruit more, better, diverse teachers
-year round teaching with breaks at each quarter
-later starts for older students
-class sizes capped at 25. 20 would be even better.

*this is how I teach my 7th and 8th grade classes. I do not require any standard written work, so that when I grade 40 essays, I'm grading the grammar, structure, research, critical thinking, and organization but not the topic. Students get to write about whatever they want (ok, with a few parameters) and I learn so much!

[downtoearth]

Hmmmm... interesting thought exercise, I feel like this is what happens in education every couple of years - reimagining a nationwide school of improvements. I have three kids who are in different age categories (high school, middle school, elementary) right now and all my kids have liked different learning styles or thrived at different times. I also have the advantage of having kids who don't struggle in learning the actual work in a traditional school or in Montessori style (more child-directed learning). All that being said, I have an 11-12 year parental view of our current system, some high school drop-out GED tutoring, and some idea from teacher parents, friends, and boyfriend of what might be some good changes, but I also feel really unqualified to provide guidance since I've seen so many different things work and fail.

Money is a real issue... I agree with waverly that our funding issues create more inequality in our systems and make nationwide improvements feel more like burdens at times in some schools or areas. Also school choice has really undermined the quality of our schools and the quality of education in many places. I would like to see a lot of the school choice options go away. No more having pseudo private school communities that are partially (like some charter) or fully funded (like some magnet type) schools at the elementary and middle school range. I am not against them as much at the high school level and like the idea of magnet-style high schools being available to everyone to specialize or focus their learning to prepare them for work or university after. But I feel like parents should not be allowed to fundraise or be involved in the school system much. I think the $ and decisions should be in the hands of elected school boards, administrators and teachers. Never initiated by parents, or maybe just white, well-educated parents (that includes me... we shouldn't get to make decisions or try to influence the schools at all and we have a great history of inadvertently creating and enhancing racism and inequalities - social and economic).

Other than that, I think infrastructure is huge. We need to invest in schools and update them for their infrastructure and in the ways that teachers need to teach. Yes, we're in a pandemic and the schools are seeing benefits to infrastructure upgrades by having kids out of school, but this isn't sustainable and socially okay for most students. We need them back in environmentally sound, safe, updated learning spaces.

I'm sure there is more I can think of, but I still get back to feeling like I'm not very qualified to revamp the schools for career educators, administrators and each community's needs for their population.

[fortnightlily]

I'll also say I think I'd like to overhaul school oversight. My county is enormous and diverse and very populous and I really think we could break things down so we don't have one Superintendent and one Board of Ed and one set of school busses, maintenance department, etc. governing the whole thing. At minimum we should break it into two school systems for upper/lower county. But I'd love to see more autonomy at even the cluster level for decisions about start and end times, weather closures, illness closures, etc.

[pixy0stix]

Get rid of school of choice and publicly funded charter schools.

[Velar Fricative]

I have to post and run and will probably get flamed a bit but I don't care - if we're pretending to start from scratch, first thing I'd want are no private schools or charter schools. Either you send your kids to public schools that in this dreamland would offer on-site education for students with all kinds of needs (with accommodations happening through the school district to provide a virtual education if needed as well), or you homeschool. While everyone living in a community pays taxes regardless of whether they use the public school system or not, we all know funding inequities exist and there's more that must go into a successful school than just baseline funding through property taxes, which is already itself problematic from community to community.

This is why I'm so worried about public school funding for the next 10 years - many families de-enrolled or moved during the pandemic which also coincided with a Census year. Ugh.

[atexan]

We need to be teaching how to think, rather than facts. Everyone has all the facts that ever existed in their pockets or on their wrists from now on. People don't know how to discriminate between good and bad sources of information. They don't know how to extract a main idea. They don't understand how to think scientifically. They don't know how to communicate effectively.

I'm a socialist (maybe a full on commie?) when it comes to school funding. Fund all the schools from the same pot. I'd ban private schools while I'm at it. Now we have incentive to make all the schools good, instead of just the rich white ones. We can still have special programs, but they'll go where they're needed rather than where they can afford to be put.

Of course, schools don't exist in a vacuum so we need all kinds of social safety nets that could be connected to schools but don't depend on schools (like health and mental health care as mentioned above).

[fortnightlily]

I'd also love to see an overhaul of what classrooms/school buildings look like. Less...institutional.

My county has overcrowding issues in a lot of areas, but then a few schools are under capacity. Meanwhile the isolated suburban office park/building has fallen out of favor so we have a ton of buildings sitting around with unoccupied square footage. There was a study done and it was determined that it was too costly or unworkable to convert any of these spaces for educational use. But it seems like SUCH a waste to me.

[redheadbaker]

Increased funding

Smaller class sizes

More phys ed

More "specials" -- art, music, foreign language, etc.

Less standardized testing (or none), more emphasis on critical thinking

No homework

Revamp curriculum that is currently cis/white-centered

Later start time, especially at the high school level.

[meganew]

- equitable funding (not zip code based)
- increase teacher pay, but also more stringent teacher preparation programs. I’ve met a lot of people who should not be teachers.
- more diverse faculty
- follow a year round schedule (this is hard for me to say because I LOVE my summers off, lol)
- a focus on social/emotional learning
- more play in school
- more freedom in planning/assessing
- more of the arts

[Jalapeñomel]

SMALL CLASS SIZES

SMALL CLASS SIZES

Did I mention, small class sizes?

[frlcb]

Jan 27, 2021 11:26:57 GMT -5 dutchgirl678 said:

I grew up in Europe, so that impacts my views. I agree with you with shorter summer breaks. In Europe, we got 6 weeks in the summer. Then we got one week in the fall, two weeks for Xmas, one week in Feb/March, two weeks in May.

I want schools to get enough funding to buy supplies for kids instead of parents and teachers.

Smaller classrooms, no more than 25.

I'm an anomaly but hate the idea of year round school, I love having our summers and my kids do summer swim team and we do a month long trip every summer. I also know we are privileged to be able to do all of that and for a lot of families year round school would be better, I just personally don't like the idea for us.

Saying that, we get a week off in Fall, a week at Thanksgiving, 2.5 weeks at Christmas, a week in March, a 5 day weekend for Easter, and we are out for Summer 3rd week of May, and go back mid August (typically 12-13 week break). So it seems like we get as much or more as people in Europe (and I am basing this on my family and friends in the UK)

[redheadbaker]

Jan 27, 2021 11:56:09 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

SMALL CLASS SIZES

SMALL CLASS SIZES

Did I mention, small class sizes?

DS' first school had an average class size of 36.

We moved, and the new school has an average class size of 15. The difference has an impact on EVERYTHING. It's amazing.

[stephm0188]

Appropriate funding. I'm in Ohio, where the bulk of school funding comes from local taxpayers. I've watched our district dismantle everything that makes it great because the taxpayers here keep voting against the funding the school desperately needs.

Elimination of standardized testing in it's current form. Who is truly benefiting from those tests?

Free public preschool (and free full time kindergarten, too!)

Reduced class size down to 18-20 for elementary and 25 for secondary.

Year round school, but shorter school days. Subsidized before and aftercare.

Expanded art/music/PE/STEM/world language education.

Fully funded school libraries with full time certified librarians. It's usually one of the first things cut.

More options for high school students. College isn't appropriate for all, and having opportunities for career prep courses is important.

More social-emotional support, in the form of social workers, counselors, and professional development for staff.

and FFS, pay them. Just pay them and treat them like professionals.

[formerlyak]

Some of the responses are interesting to me, because a lot of what is mentioned already happens in our district.

What I'd really like to see is more opportunity for teachers to teach the way the want, within reason of course. I am not opposed to standards - certain things have to be taught and learned by a certain point. But kids learn in so many different ways. Some are visual, creative learners. Some actually learn by lecture and test. Some prefer something in between. I did a lot of research on this for my master's thesis. And I would imagine that teachers thrive when they can get creative and teach in a way that is most appealing, comfortable, stimulating to them. Giving the teachers more flexibility to teach in their best way, while still keeping certain learning goals in mind, tends to infuse a passion into the classroom that may not be there otherwise.

I'd also like to see more parent programming. We have had a lot of options this year about how to support our students' social, emotional and educational needs during distance learning. And in normal years we have a lot of workshops on how to help kids navigate digital citizenship. But I know a lot of parents struggle with helping their kid with math homework or study skills or college research, because a lot has changed since we were that age. Our city actually has a lot of resources for these kinds of things, but they aren't well known. If parents are better able to help their kids, maybe the attitude of "between 8 and 3 my kid is your problem" (some parents actually said that to my mom when she was teaching) would change.

[Jalapeñomel]

Also,
year round schooling
high school starting later than elementary/middle school
a vocational track in every school

[downtoearth]

Jan 27, 2021 11:40:54 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

I'll also say I think I'd like to overhaul school oversight. My county is enormous and diverse and very populous and I really think we could break things down so we don't have one Superintendent and one Board of Ed and one set of school busses, maintenance department, etc. governing the whole thing. At minimum we should break it into two school systems for upper/lower county. But I'd love to see more autonomy at even the cluster level for decisions about start and end times, weather closures, illness closures, etc.

How many students and schools are you talking about in your county? Just curious.