Joss Whedon: Abusive and hostile, per actors and actresses

[redheadbaker]

Ray Fisher has been banging the drum on the toxic environment Joss created on the Justice League set, but many didn’t believe him. But rumors of ego have followed Joss Whedon most of his career and we finally appear to be at a reckoning.

tvline.com/2021/02/10/charisma-carpenter-joss-whedon-toxic-hostile-abuse-allegations/

Also, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Amber Benson, and Michelle Trachtenberg back up Charisma’s story.

tvline.com/2021/02/10/sarah-michelle-gellar-joss-whedon-controversy-charisma-carpenter/

[oswin]

Well shit. Joss Whedon has made most of my favorite shows and/or movies and my children are kind of named after characters from one such show. But now I hate him. I mean, I can still love the actors and actresses and the amazing work they did in those shows, etc. But damn.

[Pibs]

Wasn't there some drama about him a few years back? I adore Buffy and Firefly is one of my favorite shows ever so I'm pissed he's a dick.

[Pibs]

Feb 10, 2021 21:46:23 GMT -5 oswin said:

Well shit. Joss Whedon has made most of my favorite shows and/or movies and my children are kind of named after characters from one such show. But now I hate him. I mean, I can still love the actors and actresses and the amazing work they did in those shows, etc. But damn.

Aw hell. Our sweet old lady dog is named after a character in Firefly. 

[oswin]

Feb 10, 2021 21:46:49 GMT -5 Pibs said:

Wasn't there some drama about him a few years back? I adore Buffy and Firefly is one of my favorite shows ever so I'm pissed he's a dick.

Probably, I don't recall. But this I won't ignore or forget for sure.

[lilibet]

Feb 10, 2021 21:46:49 GMT -5 Pibs said:

Wasn't there some drama about him a few years back? I adore Buffy and Firefly is one of my favorite shows ever so I'm pissed he's a dick.

His ex wife had come out a couple years ago and said he was a cheater and emotionally manipulative.

I feel so bad for Charisma, she dealt with so much.

[bugandbibs]

It pains me that he is associated with characters and shows that I love so much. I hope the actresses and actors that have suffered under him are able to heal. We cannot allow this kind of behavior just because someone is successful. No entertainment is worth the health and dignity of human beings.

[AJL]

Joss Whedon is a POS and we talked about that awhile ago on here.

In 2017, this link was posted-- www.thewrap.com/joss-whedon-feminist-hypocrite-infidelity-affairs-ex-wife-kai-cole-says/

(Thread about it, here-- pandce.proboards.com/thread/583359/ruined-joss-whedon)

[mouse]

It really makes me sick when I think of all the talking up of feminism he did. He had that speech accepting an award on behalf of his mom and everything. And he was doing this the whole time.

[okla]

[abs]

I am proud of Charisma for speaking out. Joss really ruined her career. I feel like we knew she was treated very poorly before but it is definitely getting more traction this time. I hope Joss finally has some consequences for his actions coming his way.

This also explains why Angel went off the rails like it did. He broke his own show just to get back at Charisma for daring to get pregnant. My gosh.

[scm1011]

Like others have said, this isn't news, but I applaud Charisma for sharing such a detailed account of her abuse, and for others speaking up as well (Amber Benson, Michelle Trachtenberg). I'm slightly disappointed SMG wasn't more forthcoming (she issued a statement of support for CC but said she wouldn't be saying more), but I can also understand her position right now.

I looooove Buffy (if you couldn't tell from my icon) and will continue to love Buffy, but man, what a shit bag. Its extra disappointing considering Joss crafted his persona/mission as some feminist champion. I hope this is the end of his career.

[picksthemusic]

This isn't super surprising. I've been seeing rumblings about his toxic personality and piggishness for a long time. I'm glad it's coming more strongly now.

I hope Charisma (and the others who experienced his abuse) can heal and find peace.

[phunluvin82]

Lately I've been on a 'nostalgia tour' with regard to my TV show binging. I find it comforting rewatching old shows I liked as a teen and pre-teen and I just rewatched all of Buffy and Angel. I recalled that there was some controversy wrt Joss and particularly with Charisma, but didn't know the details. I feel for her so much and good for her for speaking out. Sucks that he's such a POS.

[downtoearth]

Feb 11, 2021 0:37:32 GMT -5 okla said:

Yup. It seems like it came up here before too. With his Wonder Women script... with maybe the Aziz Ansari discussion... with discussion of his anti-Trump commercial he wrote, right? I seem like we keep hitting on this time and again. He almost worst than other misogynistic abusers b/c he hides behind his scripts being toted as "feminist" or as a male-feminist. 

[redheadbaker]

Where have I been that I don't remember ever hearing this about him before??

[downtoearth]

Feb 11, 2021 10:39:21 GMT -5 phunluvin82 said:

Lately I've been on a 'nostalgia tour' with regard to my TV show binging. I find it comforting rewatching old shows I liked as a teen and pre-teen and I just rewatched all of Buffy and Angel. I recalled that there was some controversy wrt Joss and particularly with Charisma, but didn't know the details. I feel for her so much and good for her for speaking out. Sucks that he's such a POS.

I just found this article and it's so interesting how his female characters often token women who are strong amongst mostly tropes of weak women, succumb to nearly to violence from men, or have jokes at their physical attributes. It's interesting to see some of this looking back now. I haven't watched Buffy since I was young, so I wonder if I'd like it now. 

filmdaily.co/news/joss-whedon-problematic-media/#:~:text=Along%20with%20his%20geek%20image,misogyny%2C%20racism%2C%20and%20apathy.&text=From%20Joss%20Whedon's%20works%20there,%2C%20Firefly%2C%20and%20The%20Avengers.

[downtoearth]

Feb 11, 2021 10:58:53 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Where have I been that I don't remember ever hearing this about him before??

Because he is more powerful and rich than those he casts, and good at optics and PR? 

[RitzyHeifer]

Feb 11, 2021 8:49:05 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

I looooove Buffy (if you couldn't tell from my icon) and will continue to love Buffy, but man, what a shit bag. Its extra disappointing considering Joss crafted his persona/mission as some feminist champion. I hope this is the end of his career.

Likely he crafted his persona this way because he’s a shit pig and it gives him good cover.

also, if you remember Jennifer Armintrout, the blogger with the big metal chicken, one of her regulars is a Buffy rewatch where she points out a lot of cool stuff, but also a lot of “this show isn’t as feminist as people claim” items: jennytrout.com/?page_id=5723

[phunluvin82]

Feb 11, 2021 11:00:47 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Feb 11, 2021 10:39:21 GMT -5 phunluvin82 said:

Lately I've been on a 'nostalgia tour' with regard to my TV show binging. I find it comforting rewatching old shows I liked as a teen and pre-teen and I just rewatched all of Buffy and Angel. I recalled that there was some controversy wrt Joss and particularly with Charisma, but didn't know the details. I feel for her so much and good for her for speaking out. Sucks that he's such a POS.

I just found this article and it's so interesting how his female characters often token women who are strong amongst mostly tropes of weak women, succumb to nearly to violence from men, or have jokes at their physical attributes. It's interesting to see some of this looking back now. I haven't watched Buffy since I was young, so I wonder if I'd like it now. 

filmdaily.co/news/joss-whedon-problematic-media/#:~:text=Along%20with%20his%20geek%20image,misogyny%2C%20racism%2C%20and%20apathy.&text=From%20Joss%20Whedon's%20works%20there,%2C%20Firefly%2C%20and%20The%20Avengers.

Yeah, I recall as young teen feeling that Buffy was very 'girl power' but in retrospect it's much more apparent how it's just surface level.  He's paying lip service to feminist tropes while still managing to have plenty of misogyny baked into the dialog and plot lines.  I knew exactly which Buffy scene would be (rightly) called out in that article and I really wish it was not in the show.  I actually have not watched a lot of his other work, so it was interesting...but I suppose unsurprising...to see that similar problems persist across multiple projects of his.  

[seeyalater52]

Feb 11, 2021 11:06:21 GMT -5 RitzyHeifer said:

Feb 11, 2021 8:49:05 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

I looooove Buffy (if you couldn't tell from my icon) and will continue to love Buffy, but man, what a shit bag. Its extra disappointing considering Joss crafted his persona/mission as some feminist champion. I hope this is the end of his career.

Likely he crafted his persona this way because he’s a shit pig and it gives him good cover.

also, if you remember Jennifer Armintrout, the blogger with the big metal chicken, one of her regulars is a Buffy rewatch where she points out a lot of cool stuff, but also a lot of “this show isn’t as feminist as people claim” items: jennytrout.com/?page_id=5723

Yeah I watched it as an adult and I came away as confused about why people lauded Joss and the whole show as a feminist masterpiece. Not to say I didnt enjoy a lot of aspects of it, but I think the perception that it is (still, by today’s standards) some amazing icon is mostly just nostalgia.

[mouse]

Feb 11, 2021 11:54:58 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Feb 11, 2021 11:06:21 GMT -5 RitzyHeifer said:

Likely he crafted his persona this way because he’s a shit pig and it gives him good cover.

also, if you remember Jennifer Armintrout, the blogger with the big metal chicken, one of her regulars is a Buffy rewatch where she points out a lot of cool stuff, but also a lot of “this show isn’t as feminist as people claim” items: jennytrout.com/?page_id=5723

Yeah I watched it as an adult and I came away as confused about why people lauded Joss and the whole show as a feminist masterpiece. Not to say I didnt enjoy a lot of aspects of it, but I think the perception that it is (still, by today’s standards) some amazing icon is mostly just nostalgia.

It was a time when Ally McBeal was touted as feminist.

[BlondeSpiders]

I was super disappointed (but not terribly surprised) to see Alan Tudyk showing his ass by defending Whedon. www.cbr.com/justice-league-firefly-tudyk-defends-whedon-fisher-claims/

You mean you've never seen him act that way toward you? You're not a young woman starting out in her career, so why would he?

[cattledogkisses]

Feb 11, 2021 12:27:18 GMT -5 BlondeSpiders said:

I was super disappointed (but not terribly surprised) to see Alan Tudyk showing his ass by defending Whedon. www.cbr.com/justice-league-firefly-tudyk-defends-whedon-fisher-claims/

You mean you've never seen him act that way toward you? You're not a young woman starting out in her career, so why would he?

"I, a man, have never personally witnessed it therefore it couldn't possibly have happened."

Well then, that settles everything!

[somersault72]

Feb 11, 2021 12:27:18 GMT -5 BlondeSpiders said:

I was super disappointed (but not terribly surprised) to see Alan Tudyk showing his ass by defending Whedon. www.cbr.com/justice-league-firefly-tudyk-defends-whedon-fisher-claims/

You mean you've never seen him act that way toward you? You're not a young woman starting out in her career, so why would he?

Ah yes my favorite response when it comes out what a shitbag someone is. Bonus that it's a man saying it.

[5kcandlesinthewind]

Feb 11, 2021 8:49:05 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

Like others have said, this isn't news, but I applaud Charisma for sharing such a detailed account of her abuse, and for others speaking up as well (Amber Benson, Michelle Trachtenberg). I'm slightly disappointed SMG wasn't more forthcoming (she issued a statement of support for CC but said she wouldn't be saying more), but I can also understand her position right now.

I looooove Buffy (if you couldn't tell from my icon) and will continue to love Buffy, but man, what a shit bag. Its extra disappointing considering Joss crafted his persona/mission as some feminist champion. I hope this is the end of his career.

It actually reminded me of when Uma Thurman got asked about Harvey Weinstein and the MeToo movement, and she said something about being too angry to comment just then. And then that profile of her came out a few months later when she was ready to talk  (fuck you forever, Quentin Tarantino!), and it was infuriating. And heartbreaking. I thought it was pretty clear from her non-statement-statement that SMG thinks he's a POS, but I can also understand why she isn't necessarily interested in detailing her pain/anger for the world.  (Not that you were saying she should!)

[scm1011]

Feb 11, 2021 15:15:54 GMT -5 5kcandlesinthewind said:

Feb 11, 2021 8:49:05 GMT -5 scm1011 said:

Like others have said, this isn't news, but I applaud Charisma for sharing such a detailed account of her abuse, and for others speaking up as well (Amber Benson, Michelle Trachtenberg). I'm slightly disappointed SMG wasn't more forthcoming (she issued a statement of support for CC but said she wouldn't be saying more), but I can also understand her position right now.

I looooove Buffy (if you couldn't tell from my icon) and will continue to love Buffy, but man, what a shit bag. Its extra disappointing considering Joss crafted his persona/mission as some feminist champion. I hope this is the end of his career.

It actually reminded me of when Uma Thurman got asked about Harvey Weinstein and the MeToo movement, and she said something about being too angry to comment just then. And then that profile of her came out a few months later when she was ready to talk  (fuck you forever, Quentin Tarantino!), and it was infuriating. And heartbreaking. I thought it was pretty clear from her non-statement-statement that SMG thinks he's a POS, but I can also understand why she isn't necessarily interested in detailing her pain/anger for the world.  (Not that you were saying she should!)

Yes, that is totally fair. I can appreciate that with 2 kids and the pandemic she just can't handle another shitstorm at the moment (I certainly feel that). But the whole "I stand with all survivors of abuse" felt a little vague and impersonal to me instead of specifically showing support for CC. Maybe that's petty, and again, it was just my initial thought when I read it. I love SMG, FWIW lol.