Kids and the Vaccine

[Deleted]

My kids are 13 and 14. They both want the vaccine. Their Dad is vehemently against it (he's a T*%$p supporter if that tells you anything). We have shared legal custody so neither of us can make this decision alone. Unless I take him to court, I'm screwed, aren't I? Any suggestions? Has anyone successfully converted an anti-covid-vaxxer? 

[mrssandro]

I think you are screwed and have to take him to court. Man I would be so pissed off.

The irony though even my Trump supporting dad supported the vaccine and he was one of the first in line. Have you had the discussion with him about it yet?

[suzubell]

Ugh. Do the kids have any legal say in your state given their age?

[PennyCandy]

Studies have shown that no amount of scientific evidence will change an anti-vaxxer's mind, so you are probably going to have to take him to court. Sorry.

[missva]

I am literally in the exact same situation right now. I don't know where to go. I'm going to keep pushing the facts versus rumors side, but don't know if I'll get any where. I don't even know how courts would decide, and am not confident they would side in my favor based on where I live. 

[suzubell]

Also, if you have a good relationship with your pediatrician, can he or she have a conversation with him? Someone he knows has your kids health interests at heart?

[TR]

Does he know that Trump and Tucker Carlson (only mention him bc he’s been such a vocal jackwagon about it) both got the vaccine? I’m sure he’ll explain it away anyway, but worth an ask.

[Deleted]

May 13, 2021 9:41:22 GMT -5 mrssandro said:

I think you are screwed and have to take him to court. Man I would be so pissed off.

The irony though even my Trump supporting dad supported the vaccine and he was one of the first in line. Have you had the discussion with him about it yet?

Yes. I've tried to talk to him about it twice, most recently this morning after my daughter told him she wanted it and he told her no, she asked me to talk to him. The irony is, that he got vaccinated, but says that he now regrets it because "we don't know the long term affects". I tried to explain that the mRNA science is not new, and he was having none of it. He also believes that people are dying from the shot and that kids don't get sick, only a "case of the sniffles". 

[InBetweenDays]

Check the age of medical consent in your state. Here kids can seek medical treatment, without the knowledge or consent of parents, at 13.

[mrssandro]

@sameoldstory, holy shit he sounds insufferable.

I am so sorry. I would consult a lawyer and see what they say.

[suzubell]

PA, right? Looks like there is a bill to allow 14+ to consent, similar to our mental health law...

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ydr.com/amp/4991467001

[Deleted]

I just checked and it looks like 18 is the age of medical consent in PA.

Honest to God, I think that this is just a power move on his part. He's always complaining that I always get my way, which LOL, but he's grasping for control of something, anything.

And just for giggles, he's now resorted to calling me a liberal and telling me that I'm ignoring scientific evidence that doesn't fit my agenda, so yeah.

[formerlyak]

May 13, 2021 9:45:06 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Check the age of medical consent in your state. Here kids can seek medical treatment, without the knowledge or consent of parents, at 13.

Yep. In my state it’s 12. When DS turned 12 he has to grant permission for me to access his my chart and for me to be present at his physicals - I go in and chat with the doctor and then leave and wait in the car during the exam. But, in the case of the vaccine, anyone under 18 still needs parental consent in my state. I don’t know if that is federally mandated for all states or if it’s because it’s an EUA and not fully approved. But the ability for kids over 12 to seek medical treatment without parental consent, even in liberal CA, doesn’t seem to apply in the same way to the vaccine.

[Deleted]

May 13, 2021 9:53:52 GMT -5 suzubell said:

PA, right? Looks like there is a bill to allow 14+ to consent, similar to our mental health law...

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ydr.com/amp/4991467001

Thank you for sharing this. I'm going to reach out to my local state senator to see where they stand on this.

[imojoebunny]

I am sorry. I have a friend in a similar situation, and her x is taking the kids to a major league baseball game tonight, to the beach with another family this weekend, and to a party for his birthday on Sunday night. Meanwhile, the kids are playing sports, and going to school everyday in person. Her X is the poster child for a public health nightmare. Do your kids want the vaccine? It sucks to involve the kids, but if they see the vaccine, as their ticket to do things, maybe they could decide for themselves and pressure your X. Unfortunately, logic isn't going to work, but maybe whining kids will?

[felicity]

What I don't get is Trump supporters blindly following all of his nonsense and dangerous ideas, but even Trump got the vaccine and has urged others to do so. Now his followers decide to ignore him? It's maddening.

ETA: and I'm sorry you're going through this. I would be livid. I hope you can find a way to get your kids the vaccine.

[InBetweenDays]

May 13, 2021 9:55:49 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

May 13, 2021 9:45:06 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Check the age of medical consent in your state. Here kids can seek medical treatment, without the knowledge or consent of parents, at 13.

Yep. In my state it’s 12. When DS turned 12 he has to grant permission for me to access his my chart and for me to be present at his physicals - I go in and chat with the doctor and then leave and wait in the car during the exam. But, in the case of the vaccine, anyone under 18 still needs parental consent in my state. I don’t know if that is federally mandated for all states or if it’s because it’s an EUA and not fully approved. But the ability for kids over 12 to seek medical treatment without parental consent, even in liberal CA, doesn’t seem to apply in the same way to the vaccine.

I wonder if that may be the case here too (of requiring consent for this vaccine).

[Patsy Baloney]

Forgive me, I don't know how these arrangements work.

So, if your teens were to register themselves through a vaccination site and you gave them the necessary permission, that wouldn't be enough? The site would still have to have your ex's permission in addition to your own? Or is it more honor system - you have this legal agreement in place and so you choose to honor it.

Obviously, I'm not advocating getting yourself into hot water, but I think I would be tempted to just have her get vaccinated and STFU about it to dad. That's probably a big dumb thing to do, but I would be TEMPTED.

I think I'd prep your teens to be as obnoxious and as annoying as possible to their dad until he crumbles. I'm thinking the Lisa and Bart Simpson, "CAN WE HAVE A POOL, DAD?" cadence.

[plutosmoon]

So maybe not the best advice, but every time I've gotten my kid a vaccine, only one parent needs to sign the consent form. What are the chances he'll take you to court if you just bring them sign the form and get it done? I know it's a violation, I have joint legal and just get my kid any medical care she needs, I don't wait for my ex to agree. I feel like even if he does bring you to court, by the time you get a date the kids will be vaccinated and you might get a warning from the judge, but they can't be unvaccinated at that point.

[sugarbear]

Any chance it will be required for school attendance?

[plutosmoon]

May 13, 2021 10:42:36 GMT -5 melmaria said:

May 13, 2021 10:39:54 GMT -5 plutosmoon said:

So maybe not the best advice, but every time I've gotten my kid a vaccine, only one parent needs to sign the consent form. What are the chances he'll take you to court if you just bring them sign the form and get it done? I know it's a violation, I have joint legal and just get my kid any medical care she needs, I don't wait for my ex to agree. I feel like even if he does bring you to court, by the time you get a date the kids will be vaccinated and you might get a warning from the judge, but they can't be unvaccinated at that point.

She should consult with an attorney in her state, because different judges/courts would react to this differently.

Some might just give an admonishment/warning.  Others might require her to pay her ex's attorneys fees for having to take the dispute to court/make her pay other fines for violating her court order.  In really egregious cases, courts have even modified custody for one parent making a major decision behind the other parent's back (though I doubt that would happen here, given her kids' ages and the fact that his position isn't really reasonable).

Maybe her attorney will say "just do it and ask for forgiveness after the fact," but I'd still ask first.

True, I'm not a lawyer, a consult would be a good idea first. My ex is uninvolved, so my perspective can be skewed, around here the pro vaccine stance usually wins out in court.

[Roc A Bee]

Not a lawyer, and I don’t know your relationship, but I’d just take them 🤷🏻‍♀️

[wildrice]

Can you trust your kids to not tell him? Honestly, I'd probably just take them and tell them not to mention it. It's not like there will be any physical evidence that they got vaccinated - maybe try to do it on a week when they won't see him for a few days.

That's probably terrible legal advice, but I feel like it's unlikely to result in any huge consequences for you - you are a generally fit parent who lives in an area that isn't ultra conservative. If somehow he found out AND was upset enough to take it to court, I kind of doubt they would do much with it since this isn't your norm AND you are the more reasonable parent in this situation.

I wouldn't suggest this for most things, but this is a safety issue which I think outweights almost anything else.

[mrssandro]

For me it would be too risky just to get the shots and not tell him. What if something went wrong, which is highly unlikely, it could potentially come back to on her and she will be liable. I think the only option here is consult a lawyer. I have watched way to much Law and Order in my time obviously.

[sonrisa]

May 13, 2021 9:39:24 GMT -5 @sameoldstory said:

My kids are 13 and 14. They both want the vaccine. Their Dad is vehemently against it (he's a T*%$p supporter if that tells you anything). We have shared legal custody so neither of us can make this decision alone. Unless I take him to court, I'm screwed, aren't I? Any suggestions? Has anyone successfully converted an anti-covid-vaxxer? 

has he said why specifically he’s anti vaccine? I’d think the best bet would be if the kids have a good relationship with him, they could find a calm way to talk directly to him about why they want the vaccine. You could help with talking points.

I’d think the best approach is if it somehow gets separated from his relationship with you and instead is about his relationship with them. ‘hey dad this is something that’s important to me and I’d like to do. Here is why. I know you and mom don’t agree on this and I don’t want to take sides between the two of you, but I could really use your help on this.’ And you stay out of it completely.

[cap]

May 13, 2021 11:00:10 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Can you trust your kids to not tell him? Honestly, I'd probably just take them and tell them not to mention it. It's not like there will be any physical evidence that they got vaccinated - maybe try to do it on a week when they won't see him for a few days.

That's probably terrible legal advice, but I feel like it's unlikely to result in any huge consequences for you - you are a generally fit parent who lives in an area that isn't ultra conservative. If somehow he found out AND was upset enough to take it to court, I kind of doubt they would do much with it since this isn't your norm AND you are the more reasonable parent in this situation.

I wouldn't suggest this for most things, but this is a safety issue which I think outweights almost anything else.

I would never ask a child to lie to one of their parents. That's a really shitty position to put a kid in.

[InBetweenDays]

I have no experience with any of this, but there is no way that in this situation I would just take the kids to get the vaccine anyway. Science (and the kids wishes) are obviously 100% on your side. But I would be too worried about the possible legal ramifications and I wouldn't want to give him any justification to turn around and make medical/parenting decisions without your consent.

[sonrisa]

May 13, 2021 11:10:17 GMT -5 cap said:

May 13, 2021 11:00:10 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Can you trust your kids to not tell him?


I wouldn't suggest this for most things, but this is a safety issue which I think outweights almost anything else.

I would never ask a child to lie to one of their parents. That's a really shitty position to put a kid in.

Yes. It also sets a very bad precedent for the future of dad asks them to lie about something.

[somersault72]

Damn, I'm sorry. I don't know what I'd do if my ex fought me on this....especially since my teen REALLY wants the vaccine. Also I "love" that all these Trumpsters don't seem to care that Trump got the vaccine pretty early on.

[abs]

I would make an appointment with your pedi and see if you can both go. Perhaps he’d be more open to it if a doctor is recommending.