Should taxes be made public?

[neverfstop]

I was shocked a while back when the board discussed salaries.  Those who work in a public / government job already have their salary information shared.  Do you think if everybody's tax returns were available to review it would force changes in our system? How do other countries handle this?  Or would this just create more resentment among the "working" class who have earned income rather than letting us see all the investor class who pay very little taxes?

[puppylove64]

I wish more people were open discussing salaries. I feel like it would help get women and minorities paid more equally to men. But I don’t think that your tax return should be public knowledge.

[jinkies]

I think I agree that making salaries public could be beneficial to ensure better equity across different demographics, but that is different than making tax returns public.

As someone from a blue collar family with absolutely no frame of reference for white-collar type jobs, I can say it would have helped me immensely to see what other people make in different industries and job titles as I tried to navigate my career. I have only recently woken up and realized how egregiously I undersold myself throughout most of my career. I interviewed with a pharma-adjacent company after decades in nonprofits, and they literally laughed at some of the questions I asked about salary and benefits because the questions were so absurd to them. I had no idea what I was missing out on!

If you read Ask a Manager, she has done anonymous salary surveys every few years and makes them available on google docs. They are very interesting.

[heat40]

Hmmm I don’t know about publishing peoples salaries. I do know that public companies have to post top executives’ salaries.
And as far as taxes, no. I would not be in favor of everyone’s tax info being made public.

[orval]

I do not think taxes should be made public. There is a lot of personal info that can be gleaned from taxes that has nothing to do with money/income. Most of it is nobody's business. I also don't think policiticans should release their tax returns, personally.

[carmenere]

Jun 11, 2021 11:00:09 GMT -5 puppylove64 said:

I wish more people were open discussing salaries. I feel like it would help get women and minorities paid more equally to men. But I don’t think that your tax return should be public knowledge.

Agreed. I'm comfortable discussing salary with people I know personally and sharing it in industry surveys. But the idea of having my tax return published for anyone to find, with information that goes far beyond my professional salary, feels invasive. I think transparency needs to come from employers and should be anonymized. 

[seeyalater52]

Tax returns potentially contain information about marital status, dependents, health care and many other things that people may not want to be public knowledge. It is likely to hurt a lot of ordinary people without making any actual difference in tax policy.

We actually don’t need to see wealthy people’s actual tax returns to understand that changes to the system need to be made. We just have to let go of the American dream lie that it could be us someday if we just work hard enough.

[seeyalater52]

I definitely support politicians making their tax returns public though. The public is their employer and have a right to know about potential conflicts of interest or sketchy things that may affect their job performance. No one is forcing you to run for office.

[irishbride2]

The keeping up with the Jones attitude would be made so much worse. At least now people just use house size or car brand to gauge their worthiness vs their neighbors.

Although the petty side of me would love to see MLMs crumble as everything becomes publicZ

[irishbride2]

On a serious note, tax returns are incredible complicated. The average Joe would not be able to tell much from a tax return (at least not a complicated one) and it could lead to a lot of assumptions and misunderstandings. Plus, there are a lot of private pieces of information on them.

[AJL]

Why? What would be the purpose? I want tax loopholes closed for very high income earners and corporations, but I don't need to see their tax returns. What am I going to do with that information? I can't make them pay more in taxes. Only the government can. I don't need to see their returns to know that they're paying next to nothing and that should be remedied.

I certainly don't want my tax returns made public. Not because I have anything to hide but because it's none of your (general "your) business. I don't want my salary made public, either. If you want to know how much I make or what my household income is, just ask. I'll tell you.

[af1212]

Jun 11, 2021 13:21:47 GMT -5 AJL said:

Why? What would be the purpose? I want tax loopholes closed for very high income earners and corporations, but I don't need to see their tax returns. What am I going to do with that information? I can't make them pay more in taxes. Only the government can. I don't need to see their returns to know that they're paying next to nothing and that should be remedied.

I certainly don't want my tax returns made public. Not because I have anything to hide but because it's none of your (general "your) business. I don't want my salary made public, either. If you want to know how much I make or what my household income is, just ask. I'll tell you.

I’m curious why people (not just you) don’t want their salary made public. What is the reasoning?

As a teacher my salary has always been publicly available so I have never had the options of keeping it private. So I’m just wondering why people don’t want it shared.

[seeyalater52]

Jun 11, 2021 14:50:01 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Jun 11, 2021 13:21:47 GMT -5 AJL said:

Why? What would be the purpose? I want tax loopholes closed for very high income earners and corporations, but I don't need to see their tax returns. What am I going to do with that information? I can't make them pay more in taxes. Only the government can. I don't need to see their returns to know that they're paying next to nothing and that should be remedied.

I certainly don't want my tax returns made public. Not because I have anything to hide but because it's none of your (general "your) business. I don't want my salary made public, either. If you want to know how much I make or what my household income is, just ask. I'll tell you.

I’m curious why people (not just you) don’t want their salary made public. What is the reasoning?

As a teacher my salary has always been publicly available so I have never had the options of keeping it private. So I’m just wondering why people don’t want it shared.

I wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with it, but just off the top of my head some employers try to lowball offers to candidates who have lower salaries in the current position, even if they are objectively being underpaid. Having salaries be public for jobs where salaries are standardized would only make that issue worse, and it’s ready disproportionately disadvantages women, people of color and other groups that bear the most pay inequity.

[notsopicky]

RE: teaching salaries being public, while that is technically true, unless someone knows what step you came in on and/or how long you've been teaching, plus education level, it's hard to pin down exactly what someone's salary is.

Re: taxes made public, I don't think that's going to do anything to solve this problem. The bottom line is we need to taxing wealth in this country, not income.

[wawa]

Jun 11, 2021 15:14:59 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

RE: teaching salaries being public, while that is technically true, unless someone knows what step you came in on and/or how long you've been teaching, plus education level, it's hard to pin down exactly what someone's salary is.

Re: taxes made public, I don't think that's going to do anything to solve this problem. The bottom line is we need to taxing wealth in this country, not income.

but other salaries are in fact fully public.  
you can look up all the salaries of everybody working in my local government by name here: govsalaries.com/
I've used it before to try and tell if I wanted to jump out of consulting and into the gov't side. 

[af1212]

Jun 11, 2021 15:14:59 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

RE: teaching salaries being public, while that is technically true, unless someone knows what step you came in on and/or how long you've been teaching, plus education level, it's hard to pin down exactly what someone's salary is.

Re: taxes made public, I don't think that's going to do anything to solve this problem. The bottom line is we need to taxing wealth in this country, not income.

In my state you can type the teacher’s name into a website and it comes up with their exact salary. You can also just browse by district, school, position, etc.

[pierogigirl]

Jun 11, 2021 15:14:59 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

RE: teaching salaries being public, while that is technically true, unless someone knows what step you came in on and/or how long you've been teaching, plus education level, it's hard to pin down exactly what someone's salary is.

Re: taxes made public, I don't think that's going to do anything to solve this problem. The bottom line is we need to taxing wealth in this country, not income.

This must depend where you live (it's regional!!) because in NY you just have to go to a website, type in the person's name, and their salary pops right up.

[notsopicky]

af1212, pierogigirl, wawa, must be regional--I know that in my state you can type a teacher's name into the state DOE website and find out what their teaching certificate is, but I don't think you can find out someone's salary.

The more you know!

[af1212]

Jun 11, 2021 15:05:01 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

Jun 11, 2021 14:50:01 GMT -5 af1212 said:

I’m curious why people (not just you) don’t want their salary made public. What is the reasoning?

As a teacher my salary has always been publicly available so I have never had the options of keeping it private. So I’m just wondering why people don’t want it shared.

I wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with it, but just off the top of my head some employers try to lowball offers to candidates who have lower salaries in the current position, even if they are objectively being underpaid. Having salaries be public for jobs where salaries are standardized would only make that issue worse, and it’s ready disproportionately disadvantages women, people of color and other groups that bear the most pay inequity.

I have only heard the opposite - that by sharing salary information it decreases the discrepancies in salary.

[seeyalater52]

Jun 11, 2021 15:29:45 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Jun 11, 2021 15:05:01 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

I wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with it, but just off the top of my head some employers try to lowball offers to candidates who have lower salaries in the current position, even if they are objectively being underpaid. Having salaries be public for jobs where salaries are standardized would only make that issue worse, and it’s ready disproportionately disadvantages women, people of color and other groups that bear the most pay inequity.

I have only heard the opposite - that by sharing salary information it decreases the discrepancies in salary.

I think it could go either way when it’s completely transparent and every person (who files a tax return) has available info.

[af1212]

Jun 11, 2021 15:23:01 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

af1212, pierogigirl, wawa, must be regional--I know that in my state you can type a teacher's name into the state DOE website and find out what their teaching certificate is, but I don't think you can find out someone's salary.

The more you know!

In other places I’m familiar with it is usually a press website that has the information. Before the internet this kind of information would be oublished in the newspaper or places like that.

[Jalapeñomel]

Jun 11, 2021 15:20:33 GMT -5 pierogigirl said:

Jun 11, 2021 15:14:59 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

RE: teaching salaries being public, while that is technically true, unless someone knows what step you came in on and/or how long you've been teaching, plus education level, it's hard to pin down exactly what someone's salary is.

Re: taxes made public, I don't think that's going to do anything to solve this problem. The bottom line is we need to taxing wealth in this country, not income.

This must depend where you live (it's regional!!) because in NY you just have to go to a website, type in the person's name, and their salary pops right up.

TBF, my salary is wrong on this site! Lol

[TR]

Jun 11, 2021 15:29:45 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Jun 11, 2021 15:05:01 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

I wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with it, but just off the top of my head some employers try to lowball offers to candidates who have lower salaries in the current position, even if they are objectively being underpaid. Having salaries be public for jobs where salaries are standardized would only make that issue worse, and it’s ready disproportionately disadvantages women, people of color and other groups that bear the most pay inequity.

I have only heard the opposite - that by sharing salary information it decreases the discrepancies in salary.

Sharing salary information within a company and industry with people you trust at various levels can absolutely help decrease discrepancies in salary. Because it gives the employees more knowledge and power. That's not the same as making them completely public so that everyone, including those hiring you, can see your current salary.

[ECB]

I think salaries being pubic would make them more fair!  KNowledge is power.  When DH was an attorney, in his firm, it was very well known what each attorney made based on how long they had been there.

My salary is public - state employee.  IT's not current - its usually a year behind.  But I can look up everyone at my university if I want. 

[amberlyrose]

While I agree that making salaries public might help make them more fair over time, I'd probably start with requiring companies to publish salary ranges with the role, like Colorado just did.

Now, it's not perfect and has caused our team a lot of headaches, but I think we should start at the source. It also allows candidates to decide on if it's worth applying to.

For taxes, I wouldn't be okay with publishing the actual forms. I might be down with public knowledge on percent of taxes paid or something simple. Ex: Joe Schmoe, 10% Fed, 10% State and local

[sillygoosegirl]

I like the idea of employees knowing each other's salaries, and I could see that leading to less disparities in pay.

However, I kind of hate the idea of family members (the ones who might be asking for a loan or whatever) knowing how much I make.

[basilosaurus]

I've lived in a few countries, and it seems pretty normal to ask probing questions about money. It's uncomfortable to my wasp raised self. Like, the movers will ask what you pay in rent. My grab (SE Asia uber/lyft) drivers will ask my rent. Locally I pay a lot for my sea view with an actual kitchen, but it's about $350/mo, and I'm still uncomfortable when people ask.

So, yeah, Americans are kind of uptight about money, but I don't think public taxes will fix that. We all know the system's broken. I'm not surprised by super rich people getting away with paying less than they should. But what taxes disclose is far too personal. What would my taxes tell you about me? What I deducted from my mortgage interest? My write offs for healthcare? My marital status?

[AJL]

Jun 11, 2021 14:50:01 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Jun 11, 2021 13:21:47 GMT -5 AJL said:

Why? What would be the purpose? I want tax loopholes closed for very high income earners and corporations, but I don't need to see their tax returns. What am I going to do with that information? I can't make them pay more in taxes. Only the government can. I don't need to see their returns to know that they're paying next to nothing and that should be remedied.

I certainly don't want my tax returns made public. Not because I have anything to hide but because it's none of your (general "your) business. I don't want my salary made public, either. If you want to know how much I make or what my household income is, just ask. I'll tell you.

I’m curious why people (not just you) don’t want their salary made public. What is the reasoning?

As a teacher my salary has always been publicly available so I have never had the options of keeping it private. So I’m just wondering why people don’t want it shared.

I thought I gave a reason? It’s not anyone’s business (like tax returns.)

[ellipses84]

I’m all for salaries or tight salary bands being published, but I don’t think everyone needs access to everyone else’s tax returns. If you know where they work and what their salary is, you could take a decent guess based on tax code. Tax laws need to change. I don’t fault anyone for legally taking advantage of what they are able to. I’d do the same. I think politicians should have to publish a redacted version of theirs to confirm there is no conflict of interest, though and I don’t like that “small” government means relying on rich people donating to private charities who then decide who is worthy of help.

[af1212]

Jun 11, 2021 17:44:20 GMT -5 AJL said:

Jun 11, 2021 14:50:01 GMT -5 af1212 said:

I’m curious why people (not just you) don’t want their salary made public. What is the reasoning?

As a teacher my salary has always been publicly available so I have never had the options of keeping it private. So I’m just wondering why people don’t want it shared.

I thought I gave a reason? It’s not anyone’s business (like tax returns.)

I guess I’m just wondering why you don’t feel as though it’s anyone’s business - since as evidenced by this thread lots of peoples salaries are public info. And there are certainly beneficial reasons for sharing the info. So what are the negatives was my question.