Post by Patsy Baloney on Sept 5, 2021 15:38:31 GMT -5
aetrying, I think sometimes you can force rock bottom. It’s what they do on shows like intervention where they make it impossible for an addict to continue with their support. That doesn’t mean that people will go to treatment, but many do select to when they see there’s no more living the way that they are.
My H is a gambling addict. He wracked up a lot of debt before I ever got wind something was wrong.
I forced him. Pick us or gtfo of our lives with only your debt to snuggle you. I cut off his access to our finances, changed all his passwords, deleted his accounts, on and on and on. He has gotten help, continues to do so, and must for the rest of his life or he doesn’t have this life with his family.
It worked at the time because I think my H was done. He wanted out but couldn’t make himself stop digging the giant hole he had made in secret.
All that is to say - I don’t know if your H would be responsive to something like that. You can always try, but I think you really have to be able to back up a final ultimatum. Only you know if you are. He may choose to stay an alcoholic, as awful as that is to think about.
Also since addicts need to want to get better to get better do ultimatums like “go to inpatient or we are done” work? Or is it just setting them up for failure?
Inpatient is better than outpatient right? I mean he was successful DURING inpatient but I do feel his mental health issues were never addressed (I think he has bad anxiety and possibly depression). Inpatient would address more of that, right?
I really appreciate everyone here. Just trying to information gather before I make irreversible decisions.
Ultimatums never worked for me. Or they did, but they never stuck. Mental health is so entwined with addiction in my experience, they both need to be addressed for there to be a chance at success.
And please remember nothing is irreversible, including divorce.
Post by sofamonkey on Sept 5, 2021 15:49:58 GMT -5
Ultimatums only work with willing partners. Sometimes the disease takes control of that aspect. But also, you have to stand by what you put at stake or they’re extra meaningless. And ultimately, they’re really just an attempt at regaining control. Instead of continuing to issue them (and then not back them up), I’d just make a plan. Your H can either join you or not. His behavior is out of your control.
Post by wanderlustmom on Sept 5, 2021 15:52:31 GMT -5
You've gotten great advice! I am so sorry you are in this situation. I am direct and would probably call his parents and beg them to come get him or at least get them to help you in support and boundaries. Then I'd get an appointment with a lawyer and then I'd ask around or go to psychology today or call a 12 step program. Get a referral for an addictions counselor who works with partners of alcoholics. That counselor can help you process what you want to do at this point. My friends sister opted for legal separation, him moving out and she's going to give it six months or a year to see if she wants to divorce or not. It's also fine if you want to go straight to divorce but an addictions counselor can help you decide what to do and what order to do it in. I think a good counselor, good lawyer and help from his family right now would allow you a chance to breathe and make decisions.
I’d also caution you to just be on high alert with how much you involve his family, especially if you suspect any addiction there as well. Hopefully your experience would be different than mine, but my xILs constantly pointed the finger at me and said I was being unreasonable or making something out of nothing- starting before our divorce. The mixed messages I’m sure were not good for XH to hear, and it also felt like further gaslighting for me when I was already struggling with worrying about what I’d done/said.
The thing is, it isn't your in laws problem. They drew a boundary and they are entitled to that.
You need to draw your own boundary and it has nothing to do with your in laws.
This is a good reminder. The no give backs was mostly tongue in cheek but it’s a good reminder if they at some point don’t want to be involved. Right now they’ve been asking me for updates and stuff but yeah…good reminder that we can both draw our own lines.
The thing is, it isn't your in laws problem. They drew a boundary and they are entitled to that.
You need to draw your own boundary and it has nothing to do with your in laws.
This is a good reminder. The no give backs was mostly tongue in cheek but it’s a good reminder if they at some point don’t want to be involved. Right now they’ve been asking me for updates and stuff but yeah…good reminder that we can both draw our own lines.
I figured it was TIC, bit if you do have a direct conversation and ask them to take him back to their house, and they say no, it's something to keep in mind. Healthy boundaries on their part doesn't mean they don't want to support you and him.
I know seeing a lawyer feels serious. But it's necessary and it's not a commitment. You can go and then change your mind. You can go and then go see 7 more until you find one that is right.
Addiction is hard on everyone. It creates impossible family circumstances. It's okay for you to be done. You are not required to make him okay or responsible for him being okay. He is.
The thing is, it isn't your in laws problem. They drew a boundary and they are entitled to that.
You need to draw your own boundary and it has nothing to do with your in laws.
This is a good reminder. The no give backs was mostly tongue in cheek but it’s a good reminder if they at some point don’t want to be involved. Right now they’ve been asking me for updates and stuff but yeah…good reminder that we can both draw our own lines.
You're allowed to draw boundaries with them, too. If it gets to be too much and they want updates from you, you can say no. They can call him.
And if they were going to take over caring for him, they likely would have by now. They're not.
You love him. But you love yourself and your kids, too. You can be responsible for your own best interests and for those of your minor dependants. He is an adult. He can be responsible for himself.
Also since addicts need to want to get better to get better do ultimatums like “go to inpatient or we are done” work? Or is it just setting them up for failure?
Inpatient is better than outpatient right? I mean he was successful DURING inpatient but I do feel his mental health issues were never addressed (I think he has bad anxiety and possibly depression). Inpatient would address more of that, right?
I really appreciate everyone here. Just trying to information gather before I make irreversible decisions.
did he try AA? Did he have a sponsor? My bro went to inpatient treatment for 30 days. It’s was $11k, they didn’t address underlying mental health issues. There was an outpatient program after (more $$) and he lived in a sober house for a bit. He goes to meetings at least 5 days per week and has a lot of AA friends now. He’s been to a few funerals too. He had a drug problem but preferred AA meetings over NA He’s been to 3-4 rehabs but this was the most serious and intensive effort. I hope to god he stays sober (he has a 5 yr old)
I have no advice to share, but I wanted to let you know that I'm proud of you and support you! Sending you lots of love in the coming days, weeks, and months.
Also, this will suuuuuck, but I'm also excited for your future. You'll get through this, and things will get better.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Sept 5, 2021 17:35:51 GMT -5
I’m so sorry that you’re dealing with this.
I grew up with an alcoholic father, he never got better. Currently he’s in a nursing home bc he’s a 70 year man in worse condition than a 99 year old due to the drinking. My mother never left him and was convinced that “a good supportive wife stays”. I want to shout from the rooftops that that’s not true.
This isn’t about good or bad, supportive or not. If you’re in a toxic situation, you owe it to yourself to get out. I don’t know if you’ve been here long enough to know my father’s history, ive posted about it a lot so you could probably search through my history. But no amount of help or support can get an alcoholic into recovery *until* they want to be in recovery and will move heaven and earth to get there. My father never wanted that. Not in any real, tangible way.
I blame both my parents for it but I’m making a lot of progress in therapy to move past the anger of the trauma I’ve experienced growing up the child of an unrepentant alcoholic. He was never abusive but it’s still trauma, something I learned in therapy, actually. My father’s alcoholism has robbed me of so much in my life, including having a set of supportive parents. I’ve never had that.
Feel free to PM me if you need any support.
While I’m sure divorce isn’t “easy” by any means, I can clearly look at my mother, who may lose everything she’s ever worked for bc of my father, and tell you point blank that the alternative is 100% worse.
Eta: the hardest part of alcoholism is that the entire family has to pay the price of the damage that the alcoholic causes. The sooner you can remove your kids from the damaging behavior the better. My sister and I are living proof of that. We have paid too high a price.
Last Edit: Sept 5, 2021 17:50:59 GMT -5 by Leeham Rimes
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Also since addicts need to want to get better to get better do ultimatums like “go to inpatient or we are done” work? Or is it just setting them up for failure?
Inpatient is better than outpatient right? I mean he was successful DURING inpatient but I do feel his mental health issues were never addressed (I think he has bad anxiety and possibly depression). Inpatient would address more of that, right?
I really appreciate everyone here. Just trying to information gather before I make irreversible decisions.
did he try AA? Did he have a sponsor? My bro went to inpatient treatment for 30 days. It’s was $11k, they didn’t address underlying mental health issues. There was an outpatient program after (more $$) and he lived in a sober house for a bit. He goes to meetings at least 5 days per week and has a lot of AA friends now. He’s been to a few funerals too. He had a drug problem but preferred AA meetings over NA He’s been to 3-4 rehabs but this was the most serious and intensive effort. I hope to god he stays sober (he has a 5 yr old)
He went a few times. Maybe once a week for like 6 weeks? Then it was one excuse after another about why he can’t go. He never got a sponsor.
I think part of the problem is that all the other people in his outpatient program either had no support system and lived in the sober house or were also addicted to drugs. He said they chain smoked during meetings and it was gross and I think he saw himself as better than them and would brag about how he had a great wife. And I’m like yeah dude..they didn’t start out with no support system and I am tapped out. Ugh.
I don’t even know what he needs but I do know he has BAD anxiety. I’ve begged and pleaded for him to start lexapro which he did but doesn’t take it regularly so then it just fucks you up.
Ugh.
I hope your brother stays sober. Thanks for sharing.
I grew up with an alcoholic father, he never got better. Currently he’s in a nursing home bc he’s a 70 year man in worse condition than a 99 year old due to the drinking. My mother never left him and was convinced that “a good supportive wife stays”. I want to shout from the rooftops that that’s not true.
This isn’t about good or bad, supportive or not. If you’re in a toxic situation, you owe it to yourself to get out. I don’t know if you’ve been here long enough to know my father’s history, ive posted about it a lot so you could probably search through my history. But no amount of help or support can get an alcoholic into recovery *until* they want to be in recovery and will move heaven and earth to get there. My father never wanted that. Not in any real, tangible way.
I blame both my parents for it but I’m making a lot of progress in therapy to move past the anger of the trauma I’ve experienced growing up the child of an unrepentant alcoholic. He was never abusive but it’s still trauma, something I learned in therapy, actually. My father’s alcoholism has robbed me of so much in my life, including having a set of supportive parents. I’ve never had that.
Feel free to PM me if you need any support.
While I’m sure divorce isn’t “easy” by any means, I can clearly look at my mother, who may lose everything she’s ever worked for bc of my father, and tell you point blank that the alternative is 100% worse.
Eta: the hardest part of alcoholism is that the entire family has to pay the price of the damage that the alcoholic causes. The sooner you can remove your kids from the damaging behavior the better. My sister and I are living proof of that. We have paid too high a price.
I do know your history and it’s why I feel so strongly not to put my kids through that. My mom’s dad also died of alcoholism so I’m unfortunately very familiar with the damage it can do. 😞
I haven’t been in this situation but I do think you e gotten some great advice here. Ultimatums can work and he might change but he has to want to change for himself, not because of you or the kids. And if he walks, that’s the risk but it’s out of your hands. Hang in there.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
Post by Leeham Rimes on Sept 5, 2021 19:32:19 GMT -5
aetrying, I feel for you so much. Just know that no amount of love can cure an addict. If that were true, there’d probably be a ton less addicts in the world.
There should be no guilt in saying (even to yourself, doesn’t need to be out loud or anything) “I can no longer support my husband when he makes choices that hurt himself & our family. He has to put himself first & I have to put myself first. We both deserve recovery”.
If you live anywhere near my area, let me know how to support you.
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
I am sorry you are dealing with this. It is an horrible feeling and place to be in.
I work with children of addicts in a school program. I am going to tell you now that even though you say he is a good dad, his behaviors will and are having a negative impact on them.
You need to get to Al-Anon asap. I really think that they will be able you to handle this situation in the best way, including seeking an attorney.
As all the other ladies have stated, you can't fix him. You can't threaten him into getting sober, you can't coddle him into getting sober, and you can't continue to ignore his behavior.
There is no shame in having enough. Please please reach out to Al-anon asap. It really does help.
Post by mcppalmbeach on Sept 5, 2021 21:34:50 GMT -5
Wishing you all the best. Truly.
I haven’t read other replies, but definitely go see a lawyer. Do not tell him or threaten to do it, just do it and see what you need to do to get your ducks in a row. A friend of mine has a husband who has an alcohol problem. He has never been arrested or “in trouble” due to it though. It was pretty well hidden from everyone. It was not easy to get systems in place to protect her kids (breathalyzers at set points during their visits, I *think* he has a breathalyzer in his car). Please make sure you know what documentation you need to make sure you get those safeguards. And just because you see a lawyer doesn’t mean you need to make the final decision today. It’s ok to take that information and think on it before you act.
Post by mysteriouswife on Sept 5, 2021 21:38:06 GMT -5
I have no advice just understanding and hugs. MIL is an addict. It’s gotten to rock bottom. She had no remorse and is back to her drinking. We don’t suspect she is on drugs anymore. She was in the hospital for weeks with major internal bleeding from sever drinking and recreational drug use. Rock bottom is different for everyone. Your H has to want to change. I’m sorry
Post by pinkdutchtulips on Sept 5, 2021 22:05:25 GMT -5
Speaking from experience - he can’t be both an addict AND a good dad. If he was a good dad, he’d do what he’s supposed to do (stop drinking, take his meds, attend AA mtgs). I have full custody of my daughter bc severe chronic addiction and parenthood don’t mix.
Talk to a lawyer, get your ducks in order, and tell him. I was in your shoes 8 years ago, my dd was 4yo at the time. He is not your responsibility. Kick him out, attend virtual AlAnon mtgs (they were a lifesaver for me), and be prepared for life w/o him.
All else, take care of YOU !! Unplug from everything for 30m once the kids are in bed, as a single parent, being able to decompress is key.
Speaking from experience - he can’t be both an addict AND a good dad. If he was a good dad, he’d do what he’s supposed to do (stop drinking, take his meds, attend AA mtgs). I have full custody of my daughter bc severe chronic addiction and parenthood don’t mix.
Talk to a lawyer, get your ducks in order, and tell him. I was in your shoes 8 years ago, my dd was 4yo at the time. He is not your responsibility. Kick him out, attend virtual AlAnon mtgs (they were a lifesaver for me), and be prepared for life w/o him.
All else, take care of YOU !! Unplug from everything for 30m once the kids are in bed, as a single parent, being able to decompress is key.
I disagree with your first point. He will be an addict even if he never has another drink. Lots of people are addicts and have wonderful, successful lives, and are good parents.
Speaking from experience - he can’t be both an addict AND a good dad. If he was a good dad, he’d do what he’s supposed to do (stop drinking, take his meds, attend AA mtgs). I have full custody of my daughter bc severe chronic addiction and parenthood don’t mix.
Talk to a lawyer, get your ducks in order, and tell him. I was in your shoes 8 years ago, my dd was 4yo at the time. He is not your responsibility. Kick him out, attend virtual AlAnon mtgs (they were a lifesaver for me), and be prepared for life w/o him.
All else, take care of YOU !! Unplug from everything for 30m once the kids are in bed, as a single parent, being able to decompress is key.
I disagree with your first point. He will be an addict even if he never has another drink. Lots of people are addicts and have wonderful, successful lives, and are good parents.
That may be very true for addicts in recovery, but active addicts in the throes of addiction, can’t. It seems that right now the OP’s husband is back in the throes of addiction w a diminished ability to parent.
I disagree with your first point. He will be an addict even if he never has another drink. Lots of people are addicts and have wonderful, successful lives, and are good parents.
That may be very true for addicts in recovery, but active addicts in the throes of addiction, can’t. It seems that right now the OP’s husband is back in the throes of addiction w a diminished ability to parent.
I think you’re missing the point. Addict isn’t a verb. It’s a description of an illness. Active/drinking/using or sober/abstaining are what you’re trying to describe. Addicts will be addicts their entire lives, regardless of their current using status.
Post by nextbigthing on Sept 6, 2021 6:02:12 GMT -5
I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's the worst.
This is long but hopefully something in my story will help.
I divorced my ex 5 years ago when I came home and he was shitfaced drunk with our then 15 month old. I snapped and was done. Kicked him out (his sister came and got him), called a lawyer the next morning. I immediately consulted an attorney. He swore he wasn't an alcoholic blah blah blah. I agreed to have dinner w him to talk about 2 weeks later then after dinner he texted me that he got drunk. I filed the next morning.
That got temporary orders in place of who was going to do what, live where, pay what etc in place. That was helpful. He went to rehab bc his dad made him. I started seeing a Therapist and that woman changed my life. Please find a therapist. He'd call every chance he'd get and I didn't take the calls. It had to end. You can't fix an alcoholic. I tried for years. His family (whom I adored) told me I was mean, his mom (now deceased) sent me a scathing email. The therapist helped me get through all that.
In the divorce I basically got 99% custody of our son. He sees him every other weekend for 3 hours each day supervised by his sister. DS is now 6 (we do Modify that for certain occasions etc, longer some days if grandpa is here but no overnights). In the beginning we used Soberlink and he had to blow in a breathalyzer 4 times every day and the judge at one point ordered fingernail and hair follicle alcohol testing. For the last year we switched and I have a breathalyzer and he blows in it when he picks DS up and when he brings him home (he and I get along pretty well now so we've worked some of that out).
Some would disagree w this but be ruthless, stand your ground, get everything you are entitled to if not more, and protect those kids. You can't fix him so you have to take care of you. My lawyer took him to the cleaners on custody, money, everything (and his dad's a big time corporate attorney!) and I kept feeling bad but now I have no regrets. I know his worst nightmare is me taking him back to court.
Now looking back 5 years later it was the best and hardest decision I've ever made. We were married for 11 years. But I could not raise a child in that environment every day. XH and I get along fine now, he pays child support and does what he's supposed to, he seems to be sober. My son was so little he doesn't know the difference, just "I live here and daddy lives there".
If you have questions or if I can help please PM me. I actually found my therapist from a referral on here. Good luck with whatever you decide do. You don't deserve this and it's not your fault.
Ok. Having a moment of strength again. How do I find a lawyer? I can’t think of anywhere to look for a personal referral. Just Google? We actually have a friend who is one but I won’t do that to him and involve friends.
Ok. Having a moment of strength again. How do I find a lawyer? I can’t think of anywhere to look for a personal referral. Just Google? We actually have a friend who is one but I won’t do that to him and involve friends.
Do you have a local moms fb page? I'd go there and search the word lawyer. People ask for divorce attorney recs all the time on mine as anonymous posts.
Or if you're comfortable tell us what Metro area you're in. Maybe someone here had a rec