Peril (Woodward’s new book on Nov-Jan)

[rubytue]

I really want to want to shut the book on 45’s presidency. So, I doubt I’ll read the book. But this article about it. Ugh. We all knew we were on the brink, but I think I preferred just thinking it was over worrying. But no, we were on the brink of everything. 

www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/politics/woodward-book-trump-nuclear/

[waverly]

Yeah, there was a huge amount of people working together to make sure the election came together. I don't know how they missed that these people were going to storm the capital on Jan 6, but anyway I digress.

He will run again, and every last one of us needs to have a plan or this will happen again.

[cville]

I am trying to be a person who doesn't give over to despair, but damn. Short of (natural) death, what is going to stop him?

I'm going to make a side point: this is why the characterization of anyone who would join the military as a war mongering gun nut is dangerous. It's inaccurate and it creates a cultural perception that will, eventually, become self-reinforcing. We need thoughtful people because this is serious work that requires careful thought. And I'm in no way a fan of the military industrial complex or jingoism, so don't come at me, bro.

[waverly]

cville, We stopped him before with this election but barely. We can do it again, but not if people bury their head in the sand (speaking generally not aimed at this board). I read an article about their efforts, I think this is the same article, time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/.

I agree with you on the military. My H has said he was interested in joining, and I think he would have been good in some of the roles.

[lust2hart]

Sept 14, 2021 13:39:54 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

democrats need to organize and organize now if we want to stop him. the right is very organized on social media and they have strong channels to communicate with their base. the left has nothing like that and remains fragmented.

I keep thinking about how one of my R Senators is up for re-election next year and I see so much chatter about how we have to defeat him. ...But with whom?, I ask. I haven't seen any real contenders' names being put out there, and it's hard not to feel panicky. I don't know if this is accurate, but it sure feels like we are WAY behind if we expect to run a decent candidate. 

[Velar Fricative]

Trump will either die (naturally!!!) or be the 2024 nominee.

Also, who expected Dan Quayle to be the apparent savior of the republic?

[krystee]

Can Democrats help save the world by all voting Republican in the primary and banding together to vote for a candidate who is not Trump? We don’t have to worry about the Democratic primary probably, right? (Note: my knowledge of primaries is very weak.)

[rubytue]

Sept 14, 2021 16:51:16 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Trump will either die (naturally!!!) or be the 2024 nominee.

Also, who expected Dan Quayle to be the apparent savior of the republic?

One of my favorite take aways. Who knew he had a brain?

it does give me some small gratitude that sooooo many were actually for democracy. It felt like everyone in power was so much a trump sycophant. Or maybe they are just trying to save face now *sigh*

[rubytue]

Sept 14, 2021 17:11:08 GMT -5 krystee said:

Can Democrats help save the world by all voting Republican in the primary and banding together to vote for a candidate who is not Trump? We don’t have to worry about the Democratic primary probably, right? (Note: my knowledge of primaries is very weak.)

In some states, yes. In others, no. Like VA has open primaries, MD does not. So you can only vote in the primary if you have registered as a party. Like H registers independent and cannot vote in the primary. When I lived in VA, however, I did grab a republican ballot to try to get McCain over Bush, because Gore was set. 

[spinnaker5]

Sept 14, 2021 17:17:43 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Sept 14, 2021 17:11:08 GMT -5 krystee said:

Can Democrats help save the world by all voting Republican in the primary and banding together to vote for a candidate who is not Trump? We don’t have to worry about the Democratic primary probably, right? (Note: my knowledge of primaries is very weak.)

In some states, yes. In others, no. Like VA has open primaries, MD does not. So you can only vote in the primary if you have registered as a party. Like H registers independent and cannot vote in the primary. When I lived in VA, however, I did grab a republican ballot to try to get McCain over Bush, because Gore was set. 

In the 2016 primaries there was a small window of time where some analysts thought CA could be a firewall so the Chump wouldn’t get enough delegates to win the nomination. But CA has closed primaries: So I switched my registration to R and voted for Kasich.  

[VillainV]

Sept 14, 2021 13:10:39 GMT -5 cville said:

I am trying to be a person who doesn't give over to despair, but damn. Short of (natural) death, what is going to stop him?

I'm going to make a side point: this is why the characterization of anyone who would join the military as a war mongering gun nut is dangerous. It's inaccurate and it creates a cultural perception that will, eventually, become self-reinforcing. We need thoughtful people because this is serious work that requires careful thought. And I'm in no way a fan of the military industrial complex or jingoism, so don't come at me, bro.

While the military is majority R, it is NOT majority Trumpers. The Rs are more the John McCain folks who value integrity, service, humility….all the stuff Trump doesn’t have.

Among the younger generation in the military (I’d say at this point my age and younger — I’m 40, so that’s a big chunk of the military) there is a much higher, and climbing, number of liberals. Many military values overlap considerably with “liberal” values (what we used to consider “American” values before the Right abandoned them, like freedom, equality for all Americans, the right to vote, etc).

I completely agree with your assessment that the military needs sharp minds and critical thinkers who understand the complexity of the national security landscape. We need level-headed leaders, not sycophants. The trust and confidence of the American people (and our allies abroad) aren’t assured, and we have to protect them at all costs. We absolutely can’t afford the image problem of being an organization of right-wing gun nuts and conspiracy theorists, because those are really NOT the people we want to recruit.

And I’m going to specifically call out liberals here — we need more liberal families to encourage their kids to consider joining the military. It’s not right for everyone, and thats okay. But we need to ensure people with “liberal” (formerly “American”) values are in our ranks.

[amberlyrose]

Sept 15, 2021 7:07:16 GMT -5 VillainV said:

Sept 14, 2021 13:10:39 GMT -5 cville said:

I am trying to be a person who doesn't give over to despair, but damn. Short of (natural) death, what is going to stop him?

I'm going to make a side point: this is why the characterization of anyone who would join the military as a war mongering gun nut is dangerous. It's inaccurate and it creates a cultural perception that will, eventually, become self-reinforcing. We need thoughtful people because this is serious work that requires careful thought. And I'm in no way a fan of the military industrial complex or jingoism, so don't come at me, bro.

While the military is majority R, it is NOT majority Trumpers. The Rs are more the John McCain folks who value integrity, service, humility….all the stuff Trump doesn’t have.

Among the younger generation in the military (I’d say at this point my age and younger — I’m 40, so that’s a big chunk of the military) there is a much higher, and climbing, number of liberals. Many military values overlap considerably with “liberal” values (what we used to consider “American” values before the Right abandoned them, like freedom, equality for all Americans, the right to vote, etc).

I completely agree with your assessment that the military needs sharp minds and critical thinkers who understand the complexity of the national security landscape. We need level-headed leaders, not sycophants. The trust and confidence of the American people (and our allies abroad) aren’t assured, and we have to protect them at all costs. We absolutely can’t afford the image problem of being an organization of right-wing gun nuts and conspiracy theorists, because those are really NOT the people we want to recruit.

And I’m going to specifically call out liberals here — we need more liberal families to encourage their kids to consider joining the military. It’s not right for everyone, and thats okay. But we need to ensure people with “liberal” (formerly “American”) values are in our ranks.

In all ranks. 

**PDQ!**
Two anecdotal stories-
1. In ROTC, there were only 3 of us that were openly liberal. Me, DH, and one other guy. We attended a Hispanic serving institution in a blue/dark purple state. Since then, many of our classmates have become more left leaning, but it was tough to take a stance as the only woman in my detachment, so I very rarely spoke up. 
2. In the spring, H had to get his troops vaccinated. The two shops with liberal shop chiefs had 80-90% vax. rate. The one with a vocal antivax chief was less than 20%. Leadership matters, especially at the senior enlisted ranks.  

[tiki]

Sept 14, 2021 17:17:43 GMT -5 rubytue said:

In some states, yes. In others, no. Like VA has open primaries, MD does not. So you can only vote in the primary if you have registered as a party. Like H registers independent and cannot vote in the primary. When I lived in VA, however, I did grab a republican ballot to try to get McCain over Bush, because Gore was set. 

It's also possible to change registration ahead of the primary (assuming there's nothing exclusively on the other ballot you feel you need to vote on) 
Edit: Oops, I see this has already been covered! 

[basilosaurus]

I remember asking partner in college why he, a very liberal (practically socialist) peace loving atheist would join the military. It seemed so out of character. He pretty simply said he'd rather have someone like himself on the inside.
Granted, his grandfather was practically military royalty, earning a distinguished flying cross from leading many sorties in Europe. Never lost a plane although he had hundreds of bullet holes.

Someone I follow on FB who posts primarily about politics had a post saying thank you, Dan Quayle, for saving democracy. There was no context. I was so damn confused until I read this thread.

[Deleted]

Here’s what I want to know: when did Woodward and Costa know this shit? Did they learn any of it while Trump was still in office? Fuck Bob Woodward. He’s so high on his own supply. For the last four years, it’s been abundantly clear that his MO is to sit on information of public interest until he can publish it in a book.

[wise_rita]

Can we get a TL;DR on Dan Quayle, please?

[Bad Dingo]

Sept 18, 2021 3:37:47 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Can we get a TL;DR on Dan Quayle, please?

Woodward and Costa write that Pence reached out to Dan Quayle, who had been the vice president to George H.W. Bush, seeking his advice.

Over and over, Pence asked if there was anything he could do.

"Mike, you have no flexibility on this. None. Zero. Forget it. Put it away," Quayle told him.

Pence pressed again.

"You don't know the position I'm in," he said, according to the authors.

"I do know the position you're in," Quayle responded. "I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That's all you do. You have no power."

[underwaterrhymes]

It’s really scary to read all of the details that are coming out on this.

We need to stay vigilant.

[ellipses84]

I was blown away at how close we were to having the election overturned by that plan when I heard the book excerpts. We did know it was a threat and were talking about the military stepping in if there was a coup. While there was a part of us that couldn’t imagine January 6th happening and we were horrified as it unfolded, this board knew it was a possibility and was questioning why DC wasn’t prepared for the Capitol to be stormed (we know why now).

Leadership matters and I do think it helps that the former clown in chief doesn’t have as much of a microphone right now. Some of the protests the other day had hardly any turnout. Don’t be apathetic though. The CA Governor recall was too close for comfort in the early polls and a lot of races in other states are going to be close in 2022. Every vote matters and things like letter writing campaigns do help, as do your donations. Even if Rs are 30-40% they are going to be loud about it.

One benefit of the military is that it recruits a lot of people from diverse backgrounds who come from families that don’t have a lot of money (often for the GI bill) and exposes them to other people, places and cultures. My husband is a Veteran and I know a lot of his white, male friends who came from small towns in non-coastal states served a term or two, got out, some got their higher education, and many are outspoken liberals now.