Work question: external meeting scheduling

[Susie]

This is more of a professional question, but hoping for some helpful suggestions.

Background:  I'm a partner in a small (10-15 practitioner) law firm, relatively niche practice area, and my clients are typically corporate.  Some smaller to mid size, some are global companies.  My primary contacts within my client organizations are typically in house counsel whose roles relate specifically to my practice area. 

I have one client in particular whose communication/scheduling style is driving me nuts.  I've been working with them for about a year now, and in that time we've been through 2-3 different in house counsel who are my primary contact.  Across those people, it seems to be the norm in their corporate culture to schedule Teams meetings by "grabbing time" on peoples' calendars for internal meetings (which makes sense).  I am external to their org, but they schedule/request meetings with me the same way, minus the ability to check my calendar.  Just now (on Sunday) they sent me two meeting invites for two different discussions this week, one on Wed. at 11am and one on Fri at 11am.  They have no idea whether I'm free at those times -- the expectation seems to be that of course I'll be free for them, or I'll make myself free, and will also clear out the time between now and then to prep for the discussion.

I find this practice really frustrating and disrespectful of my time.  This client is a relatively large org, but they work with other firms that practice in the same area I do, so they don't send me a lot of their work.  I would say 5-10% of my annual billings are attributable to this client.  I am not sitting around waiting for them to call, I'm busy (more so than I even want to be) with other clients and other work.

My job is more writing and analysis heavy than meetings, so often I do accept the invite because I can juggle my schedule.  I inwardly seethe though, because I don't like someone else treating my time that way, and I don't like having to deprioritize more economically important clients (to me) because this client has decided they have a need right now.  My bigger clients don't treat my time this way, they email to ask my availability for a call or ask if I can do day/time A, B, or C.

How would you handle this client relationship?  I am honestly torn about continuing to work with them.  On one hand they're a good company to be in with, diversifying my client base is smart, and I was recommended by a former associate who is now in house there (now in an engineering role rather than legal), and I do appreciate that.  OTOH, I see this behavior as very hard to change, and they are a really high stress client.  Everything is always urgent, they don't give clear parameters (budget) on projects, and they aren't great at defining project scope, which I find enormously stressful.  

WWYD?

[af1212]

What happens if you decline the invite? That’s what I would do if I was not free but I have never worked in an organization like yours.

[acr]

If I do that with external folks like contractors, I expect they’ll let me know if they can’t make it and I’ll reschedule.

I also ask for what hours they can be regularly available for us so I can more easily schedule.

[picaflora]

I had a former job where I dealt with external meetings. If a meeting request came in for a time that didn't work, I'd send it back with as a "reschedule" for my preferred time, and list a few others that worked for me as well.

[Susie]

Dec 12, 2021 14:10:13 GMT -5 af1212 said:

What happens if you decline the invite? That’s what I would do if I was not free but I have never worked in an organization like yours.

I've only said I can't make the scheduled time once.  I can't just decline, since the call is for them to hear my analysis, I'm a must-attend.  On that one occasion they did reschedule, but it ends up being a whole thing because they pick a time that works for 3-4 people internally before scheduling the time with me, and I can't see all their calendars to propose a time that's likely to work.

[VillainV]

Dec 12, 2021 14:24:26 GMT -5 Susie said:

Dec 12, 2021 14:10:13 GMT -5 af1212 said:

What happens if you decline the invite? That’s what I would do if I was not free but I have never worked in an organization like yours.

I've only said I can't make the scheduled time once.  I can't just decline, since the call is for them to hear my analysis, I'm a must-attend.  On that one occasion they did reschedule, but it ends up being a whole thing because they pick a time that works for 3-4 people internally before scheduling the time with me, and I can't see all their calendars to propose a time that's likely to work.

If you’re a “must attend” then shouldn’t they find times that work for you first?? I understand that they’re the client, but they must realize that they’re not your ONLY client and that you can’t always make yourself available:

[orval]

Can you ask them to ask you before they put you on the calendar? Explain how your other clients work, maybe, so they understand you can't just drop everything and handle their meeting. Then again it sounds like you can accommodate them, you just don't like it.

[just]

If you need to accommodate their behavior (and it seems like you kind of have to) I'd invest in a scheduling tool such as Calendly or Bookings. It links to most calendars (outlook, google, etc), you send them your link (mine is in my signature) and say schedule during free time on this service.

[joy]

Have you explained this to them? It seems like a huge gap between “I hate how they schedule meetings” and “Drop this client” with a glaring “let’s discuss this issue.”

I would say “Can we discuss the best way to schedule meetings going forward? It’s hard because you can’t see my schedule in Teams before making a meeting so you’re often picking blind. I often agree and move things around but this is unsustainable. Shall we have a standing meeting every two weeks? Or can we say that we’ll always schedule meetings on X mornings with 24 hrs notice? What would work best for you?”

[Wines Not Whines]

Fellow attorney here. Is there a reason you haven’t asked them to schedule meetings with you a different way? We usually check internal calendars first, and then we try to offer external people 2-3 different options. I’d ask if they can do that. Then at least you have some options.

[Susie]

Dec 12, 2021 14:44:35 GMT -5 joy said:

Have you explained this to them? It seems like a huge gap between “I hate how they schedule meetings” and “Drop this client” with a glaring “let’s discuss this issue.”

I would say “Can we discuss the best way to schedule meetings going forward? It’s hard because you can’t see my schedule in Teams before making a meeting so you’re often picking blind. I often agree and move things around but this is unsustainable. Shall we have a standing meeting every two weeks? Or can we say that we’ll always schedule meetings on X mornings with 24 hrs notice? What would work best for you?”

Yes, it would be, ha.  Just to be clear, I'm not looking to drop them because of the scheduling issue.  Scheduling is the area where I chafe most frequently in this client relationship, but the other issues I mentioned are why I wonder whether it's a good fit in a larger sense, which might impact how I approach the scheduling issue.  This client represents like 5-10% of my billings, and like 85%+ of my work stress, through lack of clarity around project scope, lack of stated budget, constantly changing contacts, lack of institutional knowledge because of the changing contacts, and so on.  I keep trying to clarify, and they are not very helpful on that front.

We do have a standing meeting every 2 months, and that I can plan around.  Beyond that, it's hard to schedule a standing meeting because the frequency is variable.  Looking at my calendar from the last year, dates include:  12/20/20 ... 1/21/21, 2/2, 2/8, 2/11, 2/18, 2/25, 3/1, 3/3, 3/4, 3/5, 3/16, 3/18 ... 5/4 ... 6/2 ... 8/23 ... 9/20, 9/24, 9/30 ... 10/18, 10/25 ... 11/29 ... 12/15, 12/17, 12/27 ... It depends on what's happening with the two projects I'm working on.

[Susie]

Dec 12, 2021 14:56:32 GMT -5 Wines Not Whines said:

Fellow attorney here. Is there a reason you haven’t asked them to schedule meetings with you a different way? We usually check internal calendars first, and then we try to offer external people 2-3 different options. I’d ask if they can do that. Then at least you have some options.

TBH I have never encountered a client that operated this way!  Checking internal calendars first and then offering externals (especially must-attend externals) 2-3 options seems completely reasonable, and is consistent with how all of my other clients work.  I've never had a client NOT do some variation on that, but in this org, I've had 3 different contacts in a row who just put meetings on my calendar.  If I raise it, I can probably expect that my contact will change again soon, and I'd need to address it again.  But I am glad to hear, at least, that it seems like a pretty reasonable and standard thing to ask for.

The invites I just got for this week include, on Wed - 3 internals, and then on Fri - several internals plus another external at another org, who is also a must-attend.  I'm confident they're doing the same with the other external as with me.  

[TR]

I feel like you just want to drop this client and that's ok! It sounds like the benefit ( the % of your business + the other non-monetary reasons to have them) vs. stress just isn't balancing out for you.

[ssmjlm]

I would just reply with your availability and that you can’t make the scheduled time.

I’m curious though, if they’re going through people, is there no intro meeting where scheduling is discussed?

[wanderingback]

Why can’t you just say you’re not available and list the dates/times you are available?
And if this is a recurring problem, why not ask them about it?

It’s completely fine if you don’t want to work with them anymore. But I guess I’m just a little confused as to why you’re making this a ”thing” when it seems like the answer is pretty straight forward to just decline the invite and give them times you’re free.

[thebreakfastclub]

If the juice isn't worth the squeeze with the client overall, then drop them for your own mental well being.

Otherwise, I'd just hit decline with propose new time to the invite and give them some times that work and allow you to prep right in the response. They probably won't give it a second thought, and if they do, you don't really want their business anyway. So it's the ultimate low risk thing to not really worry about.

[SusanBAnthony]

I work for a med-large company, and work with a lot of people at other med-large companies. None of us can see each other's calendars.

This is standard practice for everyone and if you can't do it you just respond and ask if another time works.

Even better, when you finish a call, set up the next one while everyone is on the call, so that you can all look at your schedules and pick a mutually agreeable time right then and there.

If the issue is you won't be ready by the proposed time, just say that and ask for whatever time you need.



ETA: I reread and see there are other issues. One thing that might work is setting up a standing meeting and just cancelling if they don't need it?

[thedutchgirl]

Partner at a large law firm here. For the most part, my clients work like your good clients.

For this one, I’d probably reply with a decline and offer alternative times. I also would likely suggest that given they can’t see your calendar, it might make sense to send you a few possibilities when scheduling to streamline things.

Finally, we had a big push a couple of years ago around client expectations and ensuring everyone is on the same page about a project. I know it’s sort of you having to teach them, but perhaps it might be useful to draft a quick summary of tasks email to confirm each project? That way if you’ve missed something you’ll know earlier, and they’ll know what to expect from you.

But I also get there’s almost always a client who drives you a little nuts. I hear you on that for sure.

[purplepenguin7]

I would reach out to them and let you know that the way they schedule meetings without you input is not working for you and that you need to given 2-3 times to chose from, or to ask you first for your availability before checking internally. I think it's a little odd you consider their method disrespectful of your time when you've never indicated to them that it was an issue. If they were constantly doing this when you said it didn't work I would feel differently. If you've only declined one time and never said anything about it being a problem they are probably on their side saying "just send Susie whatever time works for you, she is always available for us". As others have said, it seems like you might want to drop them for other reasons, which is fine, but I wouldn't seethe or stress over something that they aren't even aware is a problem.

also adding that 11am is a "safe" time in my industry.  it's not *too* early so it give you time to take care of higher priority items in the morning, or just take time to get settled in for the day, it's not during lunch time (assuming a reasonable 1 hour meeting) and its not too late in the afternoon when people have to leave or get delayed for any reason. It very likely they have no idea how you are annoyed by their scheduling so I would definitely bring it up to them first. 

[waverly]

Dec 12, 2021 15:31:30 GMT -5 TR said:

I feel like you just want to drop this client and that's ok! It sounds like the benefit ( the % of your business + the other non-monetary reasons to have them) vs. stress just isn't balancing out for you.

This!

I don’t work in law, so I have no idea. The most majorly annoying things I have delegated. That might not work for you but the fact they are taking up so much time and stress I would delegate them to someone more junior. Also it sounds like they aren’t being billed enough for that maybe?

[hbomdiggity]

Inhouse counsel here. I would not just put something on outside counsel’s calendar without an email or text to confirm availability. Even when working with my internal team, I’d get times that work for us or vice versa.

Is it possible they don’t want to waste your time (get billed for) with scheduling emails? You could suggest that they at least reach out to your assistant to confirm availability.

That said, there are some internally that believe we pay outside counsel $$$ and therefore they call the shots. But my company is clear that my role is to engage outside counsel and control communication.

[Deleted]

Whether they’re worth keeping aside, there are tools like Calendly that allow you to show a version of your calendar to whoever has your link. (It basically just shows open blocks that you select). We use this often when scheduling with external people. Or, I believe that Google Calendar (and maybe Outlook too? Not sure) has the ability to share versions of your calendar externally.

[ECB]

Yes, speak up and say something. This may be their "norm", but they need to know it doesn't work for everyone. I think it's crazy that you are a required attendee and they make no effort to make sure you're available!

But absolutely speak up and let them know that you need options. You do have other work and other clients!!

[icedcoffee]

If I couldn't make it or it was too soon to prepare I'd respond with "I can't do this, but here are 3 options to reschedule. Let me know if you need me to suggest other options.".

Honestly--I prefer people just send invitations and I accept or decline. I kind of hate 1200 emails going back and forth with trying to find dates.

Just be honest and accept/decline as needed.

[wanderingback]

Dec 13, 2021 8:52:56 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

If I couldn't make it or it was too soon to prepare I'd respond with "I can't do this, but here are 3 options to reschedule. Let me know if you need me to suggest other options.".

Honestly--I prefer people just send invitations and I accept or decline. I kind of hate 1200 emails going back and forth with trying to find dates.

Just be honest and accept/decline as needed.

Agreed!
I do a lot of projects outside of work and I was getting sick of the back and forth so I finally set up a calendly account. So once I agree to meeting with someone and what the meeting will be about I just send them a link to my calendly and let them pick a time that works. It does give up a little control but it’s much better than going back and forth 75 times and then something getting booked in a slot that at first I said was available but is no longer available.

OP- that is also an option to use calendly so they can also see your calendar and book appropriately.

[Susie]

Thank you all for the suggestions.  I will look into calendly.  That could work.  I agree that a million scheduling emails is drain for everyone involved and I don't want to devolve to that.  I'm just at a point in my career and my obligations to other clients that I cannot be having a single client blindly putting meetings on my calendar.  In the meantime, I can just decline as needed, and I think I should be more assertive in doing so.  

[kadams767]

Fellow small firm attorney here. I have this situation come up sometimes, but I am honest with my clients about it. I can't tell from your message if you are actually unavailable when they are putting these meetings on your calendar, or it is solely about them making assumptions that you are free. Either is OK, but I think it's best to just be honest and ask them to please send you a few proposed times when they need to schedule meetings, as it's come up a few times now that they've scheduled things that conflict with your calendar. I've never had a client, large or small, get bent out of shape when I've been honest about a conflict. It's a different story if you are telling them you are basically never available, but I assume that, as long as you decide to keep working with them, you aren't going to tell them that you can be available for one specific 30 minute timeslot every other month or something that says you have no interest in accommodating them.

[lemoncupcake]

Dec 13, 2021 8:52:56 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Honestly--I prefer people just send invitations and I accept or decline. I kind of hate 1200 emails going back and forth with trying to find dates.

Just be honest and accept/decline as needed.

I think this method only works if you aren’t in a lot of meetings. If people just blindly send me an invite, there’s a 85% chance my calendar is already booked. If I had to just decline and have them pick a new time that would be more work than figuring out a good time in the first place.

[lemoncupcake]

To the OP - do you have a standing meeting with them? If it’s that frequent I’d probably go that route and have them bring all needs to that call. If another, separate call needs to take place you can take a few minutes on that call to pick a date/time

[mswax]

We have these kinds of schedules challenges often, and as other have suggested, we usually suggest ~3 options hoping at least one will work.

Another option might be to request they check with your admin before scheduling anything. Then he/she can check your calendar and respond to the client without you having to get involved. It might solve the problem, remove stress, AND not put anything else on your plate...