@ for school talk: VA legislation on social studies curric.

[redheadbaker]

From Anna Yonas (phD student in Charlottesville, VA) on Twitter: "Virginia’s proposed social studies reform legislation is terrible for myriad reasons, but the assertion that the Lincoln-Douglas debates were between Lincoln and Frederick Douglass is a new level of historical inaccuracy." 

lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?221+ful+HB781

Section B, #3. 

3. The founding documents of the United States, including the Declaration of Independence, the United States Constitution, the Federalist Papers, including Essays 10 and 51, excerpts from Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America, the first debate between Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass, and the writings of the Founding Fathers of the United States.

[smock]

Republicans want everyone else to be as ignorant about American history as they are.

[erbear]

That is next level dumb. How did that get through?

[rupertpenny]

How are Alexis de Tocqueville's writings part of the founding documents of the United States? He wasn't American and he wrote decades after the country was founded.

[penguingrrl]

We can’t possibly let facts get in the way of preconceived notions about history. ::bangs head against wall::

[smock]

Jan 14, 2022 10:19:06 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

How are Alexis de Tocqueville's writings part of the founding documents of the United States? He wasn't American and he wrote decades after the country was founded.

I was thinking the same thing about the Lincoln-Douglas debate. That was in 1858, over 80 years after the Declaration of Independence. It's like saying "The World War I curriculum must include documents on the balance of power, trench warfare, unrestricted submarine warfare, and 9/11."

[erbear]

This is what happens when non-educators set policy for schools. 

[NewOrleans]

omg
(This is an unconscious admission that Lincoln was a white supremacist who would have debated Douglass)

[Bad Dingo]

www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jan/14/republicans-ridiculed-debate-abraham-lincoln-frederick-douglass-virginia-schools

“If there is any debate that is going on now, it is not between Lincoln and Frederick Douglass. It is between Frederick Douglass and all the Republican senators who refuse to support voting rights – and Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema too.”

[imimahoney]

Jan 14, 2022 11:25:36 GMT -5 smock said:

Jan 14, 2022 10:19:06 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

How are Alexis de Tocqueville's writings part of the founding documents of the United States? He wasn't American and he wrote decades after the country was founded.

I was thinking the same thing about the Lincoln-Douglas debate. That was in 1858, over 80 years after the Declaration of Independence. It's like saying "The World War I curriculum must include documents on the balance of power, trench warfare, unrestricted submarine warfare, and 9/11."

Eh, the college board counts Letter from a Birmingham Jail as a founding document in AP Gov and I believe APUSH has non- founding era docs in that category. But at least King was American.

[smock]

Jan 14, 2022 17:18:39 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

Jan 14, 2022 11:25:36 GMT -5 smock said:

I was thinking the same thing about the Lincoln-Douglas debate. That was in 1858, over 80 years after the Declaration of Independence. It's like saying "The World War I curriculum must include documents on the balance of power, trench warfare, unrestricted submarine warfare, and 9/11."

Eh, the college board counts Letter from a Birmingham Jail as a founding document in AP Gov and I believe APUSH has non- founding era docs in that category. But at least King was American.

That's a good point – I went and looked up what College Board says in its APUSH course description:

In the context of American history, the in-depth
examination of the ideas and debates in the founding
documents (e.g., the Declaration of Independence, the
Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Federalist Papers)
helps students better understand pivotal moments in
America’s history. Through close reading and careful
analysis of these documents, students gain insights
into the remarkable people, ideas, and events that
shaped the nation. Ultimately, students with command
of the founding documents and a capacity to trace their
influence will find opportunities throughout the course
to draw on and apply this knowledge.

(Then they talk about "foundational documents," which seems like a better way to describe the broader body of works outside the 1770s/1780s.)

But that's still distinguishing between the founding documents themselves and the later examination and debates of those documents (where the Lincoln-Douglas debate and the Letter from a Birmingham Jail both make a ton of sense). Color me shocked that the VA legislature only wants students to read white men's views on the founding principles. 

[rupertpenny]

Founding is not the same as foundational. But I'm just a pedantic archivist, although one who did score a 5 on the APUSH exam.

[imimahoney]

Jan 14, 2022 19:50:59 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

Founding is not the same as foundational. But I'm just a pedantic archivist, although one who did score a 5 on the APUSH exam.

The AP teachers in the fb group I'm in are currently debating the legislation. Most assume it was done as a poor copy of what the college board tries to do but done in a way that has no real understanding of history. And of course is super lazy because WTF would assign the wrong Lincoln Douglas debates.