The opera house drama is real though. There is a historical fiction novel called The Social Graces that covers it - and a lot of the climate covered so far in the Gilded Age.
ETA: FWIW, I didn't love the book for a lot of the reasons I'm not totally loving the show so far. It's a lot like, THIS is your problem? But at the same time, women's lives were so limited. Like, once she was involved in the suffrage movement, Alva Vanderbilt didn't care as much about balls.
It took me way too long to realize you were talking about parties.
Also, Cynthia Nixon is a spinster, but why does she talk like she is ditzy? Is that on purpose? I don't get the voice choices these actors are making.
Tom and Lorenzo mention this too. They wondered if it's to distance her from her Sex in the City persona.
I agree, though, she almost comes off as if she has some sort of special needs at times while seeming to be a sage at others.
For the time it is written, I think she is playing the part well. She is intelligent, but a bit naive and she really has no power. SHe lives in that house due to her sister's graciousness and I think has been made to feel that she should not be confident in her thoughts.
I say this in the general sense in terms of the times then. I think she is playing it well. I think the woman playing Mrs. Russell is going about things wrong and back then, people in NYC knew how the upper crust worked and the women who were the power player and gate keepers to "society". I feel like they are basing her a little off of Alva Vanderbilt.
I have read a bunch of books set in this time and find it all fascinating.
Tom and Lorenzo mention this too. They wondered if it's to distance her from her Sex in the City persona.
I agree, though, she almost comes off as if she has some sort of special needs at times while seeming to be a sage at others.
For the time it is written, I think she is playing the part well. She is intelligent, but a bit naive and she really has no power. SHe lives in that house due to her sister's graciousness and I think has been made to feel that she should not be confident in her thoughts.
I say this in the general sense in terms of the times then. I think she is playing it well. I think the woman playing Mrs. Russell is going about things wrong and back then, people in NYC knew how the upper crust worked and the women who were the power player and gate keepers to "society". I feel like they are basing her a little off of Alva Vanderbilt.
I have read a bunch of books set in this time and find it all fascinating.
Aren’t the Russell’s the vanderbilts? They built grand central station… I’m invested if only for Bertha’s costumes.
For the time it is written, I think she is playing the part well. She is intelligent, but a bit naive and she really has no power. SHe lives in that house due to her sister's graciousness and I think has been made to feel that she should not be confident in her thoughts.
I say this in the general sense in terms of the times then. I think she is playing it well. I think the woman playing Mrs. Russell is going about things wrong and back then, people in NYC knew how the upper crust worked and the women who were the power player and gate keepers to "society". I feel like they are basing her a little off of Alva Vanderbilt.
I have read a bunch of books set in this time and find it all fascinating.
Aren’t the Russell’s the vanderbilts? They built grand central station… I’m invested if only for Bertha’s costumes.
I think so, even though they do mention the Vanderbilts on the show. But Mrs. Russell really makes me think of Alva.
I have another question, do they say where Cynthia Nixon lived prior to moving in w/her sister after the husband died?
I had initially thought her brother, but that timeline doesn't work out since her niece didn't know her, and that was only 10 years ago. I wonder if van Rijn put her up in her own apartment.
For the stock thing : the alderman has to pass a law (zoning law? I don’t know) to allow the train station to be built. Russell convinced them to do it by giving them insider trading info so they bought a ton of stock before they passed the law and made a big profit when the law passed, then they shorted on the assumption the stock prices would tank when the law was repealed. Instead Russell started buying all the other shares himself thus driving it higher so they lost their “bet” that the stock price would go down.
Ok so they did two different things.
1) They bought low, passed the law and made money.
2) Then they shorted assuming it would tank but he prevented it from doing it. And since Mr. Morris went all in, that's how it wiped him out.
I think the only nuance missing is that Morris & co. intended to buy back all the shares that they had shorted once prices tanked, so that they would own a massive part of the company at discount rates. Maybe they planned to then re-pass the law and watch their shares skyrocket. Instead, Russell bought up the entire company at those discounted rates, which they never expected he would or could do.
janegold, so they borrowed on the expectation of a profit they can't realize and now they can't repay. I'm not sure if there was supposed to be a parallel to the cook who had the gambling problem?
janegold , so they borrowed on the expectation of a profit they can't realize and now they can't repay. I'm not sure if there was supposed to be a parallel to the cook who had the gambling problem?
At least in Morris's case, he definitely took the biggest of gambles and lost.
Ok just finished. I can't help it, I like the Russell's 🤷♀️
I do too. I've gotta respect them both for holding strong to their principles and playing the long game - especially since these guys wouldn't give a second thought to ruining them if it came to that.
In the scene where Morris was begging Mr. Russell for mercy, you could sense that Russell would have liked to give in but felt that it was important to hold his position for the future of his company and his family. Same with the scene last week with the other railroad guy. Mrs. Russell strikes me as a bit more vindictive, but I can't fault her for that.
Anyone else think that Mr. Raikes is moving in way too fast on Marion - I have suspected since the beginning that all those bank accounts of her father's that he couldn't find would magically reappear once he had a ring on her finger. Proving Aunt Agnes correct, of course. Fortunately, I think he'll be caught before that happens.
The flip side of that storyline would be that Marion having money from her father's investments after all means that she would be NEW money, causing a great deal of uncertainty in her relationship with her aunt.
Ok just finished. I can't help it, I like the Russell's 🤷♀️
I do too. I've gotta respect them both for holding strong to their principles and playing the long game - especially since these guys wouldn't give a second thought to ruining them if it came to that.
In the scene where Morris was begging Mr. Russell for mercy, you could sense that Russell would have liked to have given in, but felt that it was important to hold his position for the future of his company and his family. Same with the scene last week with the other railroad guy. Mrs. Russell strikes me as a bit more vindictive, but I can't fault her for that.
At this point, word will certainly get around fast that you only get one chance with Mr. Russell. Fuck around and find out, and all that.
Ok just finished. I can't help it, I like the Russell's 🤷♀️
I do too. I've gotta respect them both for holding strong to their principles and playing the long game - especially since these guys wouldn't give a second thought to ruining them if it came to that.
In the scene where Morris was begging Mr. Russell for mercy, you could sense that Russell would have liked to have given in, but felt that it was important to hold his position for the future of his company and his family. Same with the scene last week with the other railroad guy. Mrs. Russell strikes me as a bit more vindictive, but I can't fault her for that.
Yes I have thought about that scene since watching it. I would have felt so bad and would have let those guys off the hook but I think Russell was right. Those guys were trying to put him in that same position to begin with and they would have bankrupted him and laughed about it.
They kind of have a lot of nerve showing up and begging like that. Although I guess it doesn't hurt to ask.
Then it made me pissed that Morris killed himself after that. He did all that and now his wife is going to have to clean up the mess alone. Ugh.
The flip side of that storyline would be that Marion having money from her father's investments after all means that she would be NEW money, causing a great deal of uncertainty in her relationship with her aunt.
I don't think they'll see it that way. Her father is "old money" even if they don't have money.
The flip side of that storyline would be that Marion having money from her father's investments after all means that she would be NEW money, causing a great deal of uncertainty in her relationship with her aunt.
I don't think they'll see it that way. Her father is "old money" even if they don't have money.
Nope. The family didn't come from money at all, don't forget they're all from PA not NY. Agnes married into it. If Marion inherits money from her father, it would have been from railroad investments which would make it new money.
I don't think they'll see it that way. Her father is "old money" even if they don't have money.
Nope. The family didn't come from money at all, don't forget they're all from PA not NY. Agnes married into it. If Marion inherits money from her father, it would have been from railroad investments which would make it new money.
But does being what's her names niece make her fall under the old money umbrella? Cause right now she is penniless and everyone invites her to everything as it is.
The flip side of that storyline would be that Marion having money from her father's investments after all means that she would be NEW money, causing a great deal of uncertainty in her relationship with her aunt.
I don't think they'll see it that way. Her father is "old money" even if they don't have money.
Dad would have been ‘new’ money bc the money was made in the railroads. His sister, god I love Christine Baranski’s portrayal of Agnes Van Rijhn, married into old money.
Nope. The family didn't come from money at all, don't forget they're all from PA not NY. Agnes married into it. If Marion inherits money from her father, it would have been from railroad investments which would make it new money.
But does being what's her names niece make her fall under the old money umbrella? Cause right now she is penniless and everyone invites her to everything as it is.
I mean, I could totally be misremembering but the other character who is related to them - Aurora maybe? - mentioned when Marian met her that they were cousins another way as well.
But does being what's her names niece make her fall under the old money umbrella? Cause right now she is penniless and everyone invites her to everything as it is.
I mean, I could totally be misremembering but the other character who is related to them - Aurora maybe? - mentioned when Marian met her that they were cousins another way as well.
I also could be misremembering but I thought she was related to Agnes by marriage - that she was the niece of her late husband.
First things first - this dress and the cape. DAMN! When she got that opera invite she knew she had to bring it, and damn she brought it.
So now on to the other stuff.
Marian is so cringe it's difficult to watch. The stuff with the shoes? Why was she there in the first place? But when she saw the brownstone, she should have left the shoes in the carriage, tossed them, whatever - but the whole thing was so hard to watch.
I also thought the random nudity from Turner in his bed was weird. I felt like they could have accomplished what they wanted to without showing her topless.
Nope. The family didn't come from money at all, don't forget they're all from PA not NY. Agnes married into it. If Marion inherits money from her father, it would have been from railroad investments which would make it new money.
I thought there was a scene in the first or second episode where Agnes sussed out an "old money NYC" connection via her mom in addition to the money she came into via marriage. Given that it was through the mom/grandmother, the pedigree would be there even if the money was not.
Agnes also bemoans the loss of multiple farms and homes which were inherited and sold by the deadbeat brother in a later episode.
Nope. The family didn't come from money at all, don't forget they're all from PA not NY. Agnes married into it. If Marion inherits money from her father, it would have been from railroad investments which would make it new money.
I thought there was a scene in the first or second episode where Agnes sussed out an "old money NYC" connection via her mom in addition to the money she came into via marriage. Given that it was through the mom/grandmother, the pedigree would be there even if the money was not.
Agnes also bemoans the loss of multiple farms and homes which were inherited and sold by the deadbeat brother in a later episode.
I also think they mentioned their father not doing great with the money, but I definitely remember their mother brought money to that marriage.
I'm having a hard time getting into it. I love the costumes and Christine Baranski, though.
I could tell the niece was Meryl Streep's daughter just because she sounds so much like her older sister. That's distracting, too, though not as much as Cynthia Nixon's oddly girly voice. She played a women with dissociative personality disorder on SVU and used all kinds of voices. It was pretty brilliant. So I have to think this is intentional.
I've never seen Mrs Russell in anything else, but her voice sounds so familiar. I can't place who she reminds me of.
The new/old money is already tiresome. Move it along, Fellowes.
When I first heard Mrs Russel’s voice I knew I knew the actress from something else, I had to look her up, she played Nora in The Leftovers. I’m enjoying the series so far. I love the fashion and I’m rooting for Bertha!
It's obviously awful that society didn't look kindly at women who had pre-marital intercourse, but that being said, Mr. Raikes' advances on Marian given his desires to also climb the social ladder and knowing what it would have done for her reputation were gross.
Nathan Lane's accent was absurd.
Peggy got pregnant right? That had to be why she fled to Pennsylvania.