Kid using ND as an excuse

[namasteak]

We are struggling with Ds1 (8yo) . It’s been a few months since his ASD diagnosis and he is using it as an excuse for everything he doesn’t want to do. I don’t know how to draw the line between having extra patience/making accommodations excuse he is an ND kid ideas and forcing him to do necessary things.

[AdaraMarie]

Smart kids can be such a pain, ha ha.
Not sure what the things are, can you explain it as, this is a rule for all people and that includes people with asd.
My kid hasn't tried to use her diagnoses as excuses but she is big on rules, especially when she was that age.

[macmars45]

(hugs) Parenting a neurodivergent kid is hard.

H and I error on the side of accommodations and patience. DS' autism diagnosis was only 10 months ago. We are still learning. Our DS(6) doesn't really know he has autism yet though we've had multiple conversations about it. H and I include him in the problem solving as much as possible and offer his support (figets, noise canceling headphones, sunglasses, hats, socks etc) basically at the drop of a hat. Due to his every changing/expanding challenges it seems pertinent.

You didn't give specific examples. If you feel comfortable doing that maybe I could weigh in or help problem solve? If you're interested in that.

[namasteak]

May 17, 2022 15:26:53 GMT -5 AdaraMarie said:

Smart kids can be such a pain, ha ha.
Not sure what the things are, can you explain it as, this is a rule for all people and that includes people with asd.
My kid hasn't tried to use her diagnoses as excuses but she is big on rules, especially when she was that age.

I like that phrasing and I think it might work.

Some of it I know he is just being more open about his struggles (ie: meltdowns/emotional control) but some of it is so blatantly an attempt at a manipulation (ie: limits on screen time or picking up).

[namasteak]

May 17, 2022 15:35:14 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

(hugs) Parenting a neurodivergent kid is hard.

H and I error on the side of accommodations and patience. DS' autism diagnosis was only 10 months ago. We are still learning. Our DS(6) doesn't really know he has autism yet though we've had multiple conversations about it. H and I include him in the problem solving as much as possible and offer his support (figets, noise canceling headphones, sunglasses, hats, socks etc) basically at the drop of a hat. Due to his every changing/expanding challenges it seems pertinent.

You didn't give specific examples. If you feel comfortable doing that maybe I could weigh in or help problem solve? If you're interested in that.

The big one right now is limiting screen time. He has given a variety of excuses but the common ones are not able to his very few chores & finding non screen time entertainment/stopping screen time.

I’ve made visual lists & posted them in multiple spots. We’ve tried quite a few different timers & ways of giving warnings. I just don’t know how hard I can push him because he struggles with emotional regulation so I get a big reaction to a lot of (in my mind) reasonable
Requests.

[purplinsky]

I don't have much advice but can commiserate. My DD is 12 and was diagnosed a couple months ago with ASD Level 1. She hasn't used her ASD diagnosis as an excuse exactly, but she seems to be showing much bigger emotions and behaviors since the diagnosis. It's almost like she was given permission to stop hiding and masking so now we're seeing and experiencing a lot more from her than before. And I struggle with the same internal conflict and struggle to find the balance between pushing her vs. accommodations and support. I do my best to balance and let her know I recognize her brain is working different and I'm working to better understand that each day, but there are still rules she has to follow and things she's responsible for doing...basically, trying to validate her feelings while still enforce the rule or expectation. This stuff is hard.

[AdaraMarie]

May 17, 2022 15:58:02 GMT -5 purplinsky said:

I don't have much advice but can commiserate. My DD is 12 and was diagnosed a couple months ago with ASD Level 1. She hasn't used her ASD diagnosis as an excuse exactly, but she seems to be showing much bigger emotions and behaviors since the diagnosis. It's almost like she was given permission to stop hiding and masking so now we're seeing and experiencing a lot more from her than before. And I struggle with the same internal conflict and struggle to find the balance between pushing her vs. accommodations and support. I do my best to balance and let her know I recognize her brain is working different and I'm working to better understand that each day, but there are still rules she has to follow and things she's responsible for doing...basically, trying to validate her feelings while still enforce the rule or expectation. This stuff is hard.

My dd is almost 12 and I am at the point where I am starting to wonder is this particular outburst related to all the ones she has had in the past or is this "normal" for a girl going through puberty and middle school? I suspect I will be asking this for years.

[AdaraMarie]

namasteak Limiting screen time was brutal. I had to severly reset her expectation so that she didn't have screens at all.
She didn't have a tablet back then, but I couldn't just hide the tv remote or unplug the streaming box when I went to bed. I had to disconnect the box and hide it (not even just put out of reach) because she would wake up in the middle of the night and climb up to get it in order to watch rescue bots or something all night long.
We had a rule that there was no tv before school, almost never on weeknights, and we all watched a movie together for movie night on Fridays and for resting time Satuday and Sunday afternoons.
Now she has a school issued laptop that I have to police-it's not as bad as it used to be, but it is a conversation almost every day and there have been extreme reactions like you mentioned, including her throwing it on the ground one time last week 🤬

[livinitup]

The struggle is real. Be gentle to yourself that you are asking the right questions and are willing to be flexible as you get more information.

Sure. Be patient.

Sure. Draw a line.

It’s all so flexible and changing. All the god damn time.

[macmars45]

May 17, 2022 15:48:59 GMT -5 namasteak said:

May 17, 2022 15:35:14 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

(hugs) Parenting a neurodivergent kid is hard.

H and I error on the side of accommodations and patience. DS' autism diagnosis was only 10 months ago. We are still learning. Our DS(6) doesn't really know he has autism yet though we've had multiple conversations about it. H and I include him in the problem solving as much as possible and offer his support (figets, noise canceling headphones, sunglasses, hats, socks etc) basically at the drop of a hat. Due to his every changing/expanding challenges it seems pertinent.

You didn't give specific examples. If you feel comfortable doing that maybe I could weigh in or help problem solve? If you're interested in that.

The big one right now is limiting screen time. He has given a variety of excuses but the common ones are not able to his very few chores & finding non screen time entertainment/stopping screen time.

I’ve made visual lists & posted them in multiple spots. We’ve tried quite a few different timers & ways of giving warnings. I just don’t know how hard I can push him because he struggles with emotional regulation so I get a big reaction to a lot of (in my mind) reasonable
Requests.

My DS used to have very big aggressive reactions to reasonable requests in regards to screen time ending (hitting, kicking, throwing the remote/controller). Two things that has helped him immensely on screen time is setting a 'timer' of we'll be done after this episode/after this mission on the video game AND putting a reminder in for the following day that he wants to do x on the video game/watch x show. He can get really emotional about potentially forgetting things.

Maybe a social story would help? A re-inforcer/reward for giving a calmer response?

[af1212]

May 17, 2022 16:56:04 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

May 17, 2022 15:48:59 GMT -5 namasteak said:

The big one right now is limiting screen time. He has given a variety of excuses but the common ones are not able to his very few chores & finding non screen time entertainment/stopping screen time.

I’ve made visual lists & posted them in multiple spots. We’ve tried quite a few different timers & ways of giving warnings. I just don’t know how hard I can push him because he struggles with emotional regulation so I get a big reaction to a lot of (in my mind) reasonable
Requests.

My DS used to have very big aggressive reactions to reasonable requests in regards to screen time ending (hitting, kicking, throwing the remote/controller). Two things that has helped him immensely on screen time is setting a 'timer' of we'll be done after this episode/after this mission on the video game AND putting a reminder in for the following day that he wants to do x on the video game/watch x show. He can get really emotional about potentially forgetting things.

Maybe a social story would help? A re-inforcer/reward for giving a calmer response?

Along these lines - how about a visual timer? Sand timer or time timer? So he can see how much time is left?

[mae0111]

My DD1 is 12 and has ADHD and NVLD (which is very similar to, and often mistaken for, ASD). She is on medication for ADHD, so we've discussed that at length. She often uses it as an excuse for everything - why she can't do her school work, why she can scream at me, why she doesn't have to clean her room...

Because she uses it as an excuse so often, we opted not to tell her about the NVLD. She technically fell short of a diagnosis, but has strong tendencies. She's classified as "twice exceptional" - so gifted in some areas - but she was leaning heavily on her ADHD as an excuse for poor grades. But we pushed her, we didn't really give in to her excuses, and she got straight A's last term. She barely brought home any homework, and I was hearing from other parents that their kids were swamped. Talking to her teachers, they say that she's responsible, always prepared for class, seeks them out when she needs help... all the things that had been a real struggle for her.

We consistently tell her that we know that her brain may work differently than ours, her teachers, some of her friends... and that's ok. We tell her that she needs to be vocal about what she needs - if I'm helping her with math homework a certain way, and it doesn't make sense, she needs to tell me that it doesn't make sense and we will find another way. But I know her, and I know that she will 100% use her NVLD as an excuse as to why she doesn't have to do certain things. Eventually we will tell her, but now's not the time.

ETA: I feel like I need to clarify that when I say "pushed her" academically - we made her try.  She would often say things like, "ADHD makes me bad at science, so there's not point in studying for my test tomorrow."  Then she would try to grab her iPad and declare herself done with schoolwork for the evening.  We would make her study for her tests.  We would sit with her and review concepts, she would memorize her vocab (rote memorization is a big thing with NVLDers).  And typically, with about an hour of work spread out over a day or 2, she would come home with an A.  And if she came home with a C after that work, oh well!  Let's make sure you get the concepts now in  case they come up again later.  

So we made it all about the effort, but she likes to see the effort pay off in the form of grades.

[namasteak]

May 17, 2022 16:56:04 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

May 17, 2022 15:48:59 GMT -5 namasteak said:

The big one right now is limiting screen time. He has given a variety of excuses but the common ones are not able to his very few chores & finding non screen time entertainment/stopping screen time.

I’ve made visual lists & posted them in multiple spots. We’ve tried quite a few different timers & ways of giving warnings. I just don’t know how hard I can push him because he struggles with emotional regulation so I get a big reaction to a lot of (in my mind) reasonable
Requests.

My DS used to have very big aggressive reactions to reasonable requests in regards to screen time ending (hitting, kicking, throwing the remote/controller). Two things that has helped him immensely on screen time is setting a 'timer' of we'll be done after this episode/after this mission on the video game AND putting a reminder in for the following day that he wants to do x on the video game/watch x show. He can get really emotional about potentially forgetting things.

Maybe a social story would help? A re-inforcer/reward for giving a calmer response?

We have tried 4 different types of timers (including visual) but had not try rewarding calm responses. I’m slightly hesitant to do that because I feel like it would be unfair to his NT brothers but really it wouldn’t hurt to reinforce good responses with them too.

[namasteak]

May 18, 2022 9:32:55 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

My DD1 is 12 and has ADHD and NVLD (which is very similar to, and often mistaken for, ASD). She is on medication for ADHD, so we've discussed that at length. She often uses it as an excuse for everything - why she can't do her school work, why she can scream at me, why she doesn't have to clean her room...

Because she uses it as an excuse so often, we opted not to tell her about the NVLD. She technically fell short of a diagnosis, but has strong tendencies. She's classified as "twice exceptional" - so gifted in some areas - but she was leaning heavily on her ADHD as an excuse for poor grades. But we pushed her, we didn't really give in to her excuses, and she got straight A's last term. She barely brought home any homework, and I was hearing from other parents that their kids were swamped. Talking to her teachers, they say that she's responsible, always prepared for class, seeks them out when she needs help... all the things that had been a real struggle for her.

We consistently tell her that we know that her brain may work differently than ours, her teachers, some of her friends... and that's ok. We tell her that she needs to be vocal about what she needs - if I'm helping her with math homework a certain way, and it doesn't make sense, she needs to tell me that it doesn't make sense and we will find another way. But I know her, and I know that she will 100% use her NVLD as an excuse as to why she doesn't have to do certain things. Eventually we will tell her, but now's not the time.

I had not heard of NVLD but it sounds like a possibility for DS1. Im going to talk to his OT about it soon.

He is also a 2E kiddo which makes it so hard to get services I’ve even tried looking at private schools but none work with 2E kids.

[yourmother]

My ASD DS7 hasn’t had the opportunity to use his ND as an excuse….yet. He hasn’t been told and quite frankly, I don’t think he’d get it.

However, we did have struggles with screen time and came up with having him EARN time on his iPad. Whether it be chores, extra schoolwork, whatever. He now looks for ways to earn his time AND it’s very exact in that we make HIM use the iPad timer.

Not sure if this is helpful, but things changed for our day to day lives when it clicked for him that he hadvto work to get things he wanted.

[macmars45]

May 18, 2022 10:07:47 GMT -5 namasteak said:

May 17, 2022 16:56:04 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

My DS used to have very big aggressive reactions to reasonable requests in regards to screen time ending (hitting, kicking, throwing the remote/controller). Two things that has helped him immensely on screen time is setting a 'timer' of we'll be done after this episode/after this mission on the video game AND putting a reminder in for the following day that he wants to do x on the video game/watch x show. He can get really emotional about potentially forgetting things.

Maybe a social story would help? A re-inforcer/reward for giving a calmer response?

We have tried 4 different types of timers (including visual) but had not try rewarding calm responses. I’m slightly hesitant to do that because I feel like it would be unfair to his NT brothers but really it wouldn’t hurt to reinforce good responses with them too.

With my 6 yr old calm safe responses mean he gets screen time the next day. That seems like it could be a good re-enforcer for all your kiddos.

[namasteak]

May 18, 2022 10:21:44 GMT -5 yourmother said:

My ASD DS7 hasn’t had the opportunity to use his ND as an excuse….yet. He hasn’t been told and quite frankly, I don’t think he’d get it.

However, we did have struggles with screen time and came up with having him EARN time on his iPad. Whether it be chores, extra schoolwork, whatever. He now looks for ways to earn his time AND it’s very exact in that we make HIM use the iPad timer.

Not sure if this is helpful, but things changed for our day to day lives when it clicked for him that he hadvto work to get things he wanted.

I like the idea of earning screen time. They earn an allowance and don’t get it if they don’t do their chores so it would be easy to add this (I HOPE)!

[lucybrown]

My ND 10 yo uses ADHD as an excuse often. I don't have a lot of tolerance for it because, frankly, all four of us in the house have similar issues. I'm firm, but compassionate. I a lot of, "Your ADHD makes this more difficult for you than for some other kids, but we still have to do it." We do offer assistance/accommodations often.

We've done therapy and OT, which have been really helpful. She is starting to gain some skills to help her executive functioning deficits, which help build confidence and reduce anxiety. She is 2E also. Diagnosed ADHD with ASD traits, but not enough for diagnosis. Morning and bedtime routines are rough in our house. The only way for us to be successful without frustration is for a parent to be available for near constant prompting as needed. We allow for double the time it actually takes us to get ready.

[namasteak]

May 18, 2022 10:58:40 GMT -5 lucybrown said:

My ND 10 yo uses ADHD as an excuse often. I don't have a lot of tolerance for it because, frankly, all four of us in the house have similar issues. I'm firm, but compassionate. I a lot of, "Your ADHD makes this more difficult for you than for some other kids, but we still have to do it." We do offer assistance/accommodations often.

We've done therapy and OT, which have been really helpful. She is starting to gain some skills to help her executive functioning deficits, which help build confidence and reduce anxiety. She is 2E also. Diagnosed ADHD with ASD traits, but not enough for diagnosis. Morning and bedtime routines are rough in our house. The only way for us to be successful without frustration is for a parent to be available for near constant prompting as needed. We allow for double the time it actually takes us to get ready.

Love the phrasing up top!

I need to look and see if who could help with executive function skills locally. I used to to tutor that in LA but he would listen better to someone else.

[lucybrown]

namasteak, thanks. All four of us in our house are ND in some way. We talk often about how everyone has strengths and challenges, these are just what ours are.

DD's OT sessions focused executive functioning. She loved it and gained some great insights and skills to support herself better. I agree working with someone else may be more impactful. It's important for us to also get to just be parents to our kiddos too.

[jlt19]

May 18, 2022 9:32:55 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

My DD1 is 12 and has ADHD and NVLD (which is very similar to, and often mistaken for, ASD). She is on medication for ADHD, so we've discussed that at length. She often uses it as an excuse for everything - why she can't do her school work, why she can scream at me, why she doesn't have to clean her room...

Because she uses it as an excuse so often, we opted not to tell her about the NVLD. She technically fell short of a diagnosis, but has strong tendencies. She's classified as "twice exceptional" - so gifted in some areas - but she was leaning heavily on her ADHD as an excuse for poor grades. But we pushed her, we didn't really give in to her excuses, and she got straight A's last term. She barely brought home any homework, and I was hearing from other parents that their kids were swamped. Talking to her teachers, they say that she's responsible, always prepared for class, seeks them out when she needs help... all the things that had been a real struggle for her.

We consistently tell her that we know that her brain may work differently than ours, her teachers, some of her friends... and that's ok. We tell her that she needs to be vocal about what she needs - if I'm helping her with math homework a certain way, and it doesn't make sense, she needs to tell me that it doesn't make sense and we will find another way. But I know her, and I know that she will 100% use her NVLD as an excuse as to why she doesn't have to do certain things. Eventually we will tell her, but now's not the time.

ETA: I feel like I need to clarify that when I say "pushed her" academically - we made her try.  She would often say things like, "ADHD makes me bad at science, so there's not point in studying for my test tomorrow."  Then she would try to grab her iPad and declare herself done with schoolwork for the evening.  We would make her study for her tests.  We would sit with her and review concepts, she would memorize her vocab (rote memorization is a big thing with NVLDers).  And typically, with about an hour of work spread out over a day or 2, she would come home with an A.  And if she came home with a C after that work, oh well!  Let's make sure you get the concepts now in  case they come up again later.  

So we made it all about the effort, but she likes to see the effort pay off in the form of grades.

This sounds SO much like my nearly 12 yo DD.

She is gifted and unofficially dx with anxiety (does see a counselor). I’m so torn during most of her tantrums at whether or not they’re actually anxiety induced or her manipulation.

She had a D in music and went on multiple times about how she is under so much pressure and how hard it is. Of course never telling us anything about it until I got the weekly grade report. After two weeks getting on her case I looked and saw she had all 100’s and a few 0’s. I was FURIOUS. It wasn’t “hard”, you just didn’t do it or turn something in. Then she goes off about how we put so much pressure on her and we don’t know what her life is like (insert beebee eye roll ). When I finally took her phone away she talked to her teacher the next day, was allowed to make it up and ended the week with a B+.

She’s intelligent, but lazy basically. And at the counselor today as I told this story, she tells me it’s my fault for not taking away her phone sooner. Oh, believe me child, I have learned from my mistakes. She’s going to hate summer at home with me all day…

All that to say, I love how so many kids are getting the resources they need so much earlier (if at all) compared to when we were kids. But I also feel like some of this is them pushing boundaries which is also developmentally appropriate for every kid.

I guess we can just all sit in a corner and cry because we’re going to mess them up either way, lol

[mae0111]

jlt19, I hear you. We went through so many years of misdiagnosis and daily hours-long meltdowns before we found an awesome neuropsych to run comprehensive testing. The meltdowns still happen, but they're like 1x a week/every other for an hour vs. literally every day for 3-4 hours.

I also struggle with what is anxiety/NVLD/ADHD and what is normal tween/teen behavior. I speak to her counselor a lot about that. She helps be to decipher some, but we still struggle with it. I know what her triggers are most of the time. I can't avoid them (studying is a trigger), but I can brace myself and keep myself in a good frame of mind to deal with it.

As far as summer goes... it might be too late, and could be cost prohibitive, but we send DD1 to camp for 4 weeks every summer. Even with her improved behavior, her presence just... changes the vibe in the house (which sounds horrible, but it's true). She fought us initially, but after learning about the camp, she was angry that we initially only signed her up for 2 weeks. This will be her 3rd summer (with one year off for COVID). I just can't manage her all summer, especially now that I'm working (I took a few years off - partially because I needed it and partially because we, as a family, needed to deal with her). She LOVES the independence and living with other girls her age in a bunk. Since she loves to be busy 100% of the time, this is great for her. And no electronics allowed. Might be something to consider...

[definitelyO]

My cousin was talking to me about rejection sensitive dysphoria - says that it's common with ADHD. They have done some great modeling with their child's therapist to work on how to better to approach them w/o having the huge emotional meltdowns when it's time to stop something or they're going to be told no (or think they'll be told no)

[namasteak]

May 17, 2022 16:56:04 GMT -5 macmars45 said:

May 17, 2022 15:48:59 GMT -5 namasteak said:

The big one right now is limiting screen time. He has given a variety of excuses but the common ones are not able to his very few chores & finding non screen time entertainment/stopping screen time.

I’ve made visual lists & posted them in multiple spots. We’ve tried quite a few different timers & ways of giving warnings. I just don’t know how hard I can push him because he struggles with emotional regulation so I get a big reaction to a lot of (in my mind) reasonable
Requests.

My DS used to have very big aggressive reactions to reasonable requests in regards to screen time ending (hitting, kicking, throwing the remote/controller). Two things that has helped him immensely on screen time is setting a 'timer' of we'll be done after this episode/after this mission on the video game AND putting a reminder in for the following day that he wants to do x on the video game/watch x show. He can get really emotional about potentially forgetting things.

Maybe a social story would help? A re-inforcer/reward for giving a calmer response?

We’ve tried I even tried having an alarm set for the 5 min, 2 min and done mark with no luck. So then I got a visual red/yellow/green timer and that didn’t work. & the pomodoro method timer with no luck.

I know we will get there but it’s SO HARD.

[namasteak]

@mae011 I would LOVE to send Ds1 to camp but he’s so anxious about it I grew up going for as long as my mom could afford to send me but I’m not sure he wants that same experience.

We are going to start with day camp this year and fingers crossed we can do overnight next year.