@@@@ School dismissed threat against other students

[redheadbaker]

I am in shock right now. Given what happened LAST WEEK, I am beyond words right now. 

*ALLEGEDLY* A 6th grader warned some students at my son's school not to come in tomorrow because he had a list of people he wanted to kill. My son doesn't know the kid and isn't on the list, that's not the issue. 

The issue is that parents told the interim principal WHO DISMISSED IT AND SENT THE KID BACK TO CLASS. 

And we only received a letter from the superintendent because those concerned parents contacted the police. 

Between this and the fundraising for proselytizing "pro life" organizations, I want the entire administration at this school gone. 

[gretchenindisguise]

Holy shit. What is wrong with these people? Burn it down.

[macmars45]

WTF!

[VillainV]

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. Given how the administration has addressed issues before, I can understand why you’re upset.

A lot of things happen when a kid makes a threat — first and foremost, a good administration will find out if the child actually has the means to carry out any kind of threat (ie: are there guns or other weapons in the home), and look at any kind of 504 that the child might have (ie: a disorder that causes impulse control problems, a behavioral pattern of acting up, a rough home life where they hear threats like these a lot and think it’s normal, etc. There are cases where a kid can make a threat, and the school can be sufficiently satisfied that the child won’t carry out any dangerous actions. In some cases, the best thing to do for that child is to return them to class (ie: a suspension or expulsion could be extremely detrimental, or it’s better to keep the kid in school where they can be monitored).

So, it’s possible that the school did their due diligence and determined that no actual threat exists. While the school probably can’t tell you exactly why they made the decision they did, you are well within your rights to ask them to explain what the usual process is and why a child might be returned to class.

[basilosaurus]

Given what she's said about the school before, I highly doubt due diligence.

I'll grab my shovel.

[formerlyak]

What VillainV describes is what happened when there was a threat at DS’ middle school. Police and a school official visited the kid who made the threat at home, talked with the parents, confirmed no access to weapons, etc. The student was also not allowed to go to school the next day. Our city has a pretty strong parent network and the family involved was transparent about what happened. That’s how we learned the process. The child and family was also offered counseling.

Our schools proactively lockdown schools for even things that sometimes seem unnecessary. The week after Sandy Hook, my oldest was locked down due to a domestic threat against a teacher who wasn’t at school that day, for example. The police just wanted to locate the person who was threatening her and locate the teacher to make sure the kids were not in danger. But after the first few times the kids were locked down, we have all decided we’d rather a not-needed lockdown than the alternative.

[redheadbaker]

Follow-up from the superintendent this morning does very little to reassure me, considering it was parents that involved the police, NOT the school administration, and the message went out so late BECAUSE the school initially dismissed the threat and sent the student back to class.

"Understandably, my message to the community late last night was unsettling. Please understand that message was sent out as soon as possible, due to the nature of a comprehensive investigation by the police. [Borough] Police Department determined there was no credible threat as a result of their investigation. We will continue to investigate here at school, as well and I will communicate additional information as soon as possible. Please understand that I will not be able to disclose names of students at any time; however, I will try to provide additional clarity when our investigation is complete. In matters such as this, we work closely with our police department and our solicitor to release information to the public. Our number one priority is the safety of our students and staff and I will send a follow up email as soon as I am able."

[redheadbaker]

How does one say "that's bullshit" in professional-speak?

[wawa]

Jun 1, 2022 8:31:32 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

How does one say "that's bullshit" in professional-speak?

there seems to be a disconnect in the information you're providing here and what we were previously told. (insert some details here).  Can you explain that?

[aliciabella]

Wtf indeed.

And to commiserate since we are in the same area...



@@@@@ sorry to make this about me....

I don't trust their school either. My daughter found a bullet on the ground of her 4th grade classroom. I had no idea about it until I picked her up crying and freaked out. The fucking Principal was notified. Never contacted the police. Never searched the bookbags for a gun and threw the bullet out. I was the first one to file a police report that night. I filed a report with the Superintendent and nothing. If I could move right now or transfer them I would, but we can't.




This is why we decided next year to split my twins into different classrooms. I couldn't lose both of them at the same time

[abs]

aliciabella, oh I cannot believe that wasn't taken seriously! I mean I can but my stomach dropped just reading that.

So many hugs.

Y'all. I am not okay. I am not. What are we doing?? I cannot believe we have just accepted that daily threats are fine. Losing kids/anyone after they are born is fine. It's all just fine because 2a.

[redheadbaker]

Jun 1, 2022 9:17:21 GMT -5 aliciabella said:

Wtf indeed.

And to commiserate since we are in the same area...



@@@@@ sorry to make this about me....

I don't trust their school either. My daughter found a bullet on the ground of her 4th grade classroom. I had no idea about it until I picked her up crying and freaked out. The fucking Principal was notified. Never contacted the police. Never searched the bookbags for a gun and threw the bullet out. I was the first one to file a police report that night. I filed a report with the Superintendent and nothing. If I could move right now or transfer them I would, but we can't.




This is why we decided next year to split my twins into different classrooms. I couldn't lose both of them at the same time

OMG! It's fucking horrific that you even need to think about splitting them into different classrooms for that reason. I'm so, so sorry.

[expectantsteelerfan]

Jun 1, 2022 9:17:21 GMT -5 aliciabella said:

Wtf indeed.

And to commiserate since we are in the same area...



@@@@@ sorry to make this about me....

I don't trust their school either. My daughter found a bullet on the ground of her 4th grade classroom. I had no idea about it until I picked her up crying and freaked out. The fucking Principal was notified. Never contacted the police. Never searched the bookbags for a gun and threw the bullet out. I was the first one to file a police report that night. I filed a report with the Superintendent and nothing. If I could move right now or transfer them I would, but we can't.




This is why we decided next year to split my twins into different classrooms. I couldn't lose both of them at the same time

This is beyond horrifying.  Can you contact the local news outlets about this?  I am not one to jump into burn it down mode, but this is insanity.

[aliciabella]

Jun 1, 2022 10:16:23 GMT -5 expectantsteelerfan said:

Jun 1, 2022 9:17:21 GMT -5 aliciabella said:

Wtf indeed.

And to commiserate since we are in the same area...



@@@@@ sorry to make this about me....

I don't trust their school either. My daughter found a bullet on the ground of her 4th grade classroom. I had no idea about it until I picked her up crying and freaked out. The fucking Principal was notified. Never contacted the police. Never searched the bookbags for a gun and threw the bullet out. I was the first one to file a police report that night. I filed a report with the Superintendent and nothing. If I could move right now or transfer them I would, but we can't.




This is why we decided next year to split my twins into different classrooms. I couldn't lose both of them at the same time

This is beyond horrifying.  Can you contact the local news outlets about this?  I am not one to jump into burn it down mode, but this is insanity.

I am not either but I was fucking pissed they didn't even call the police. In my mind and my daughter's if there is a bullet there is a gun.

It was shady as fuck and think the district just covered it up. After I filed the police report, I called the Superintendent, council members, and will you not believe I got a phone call right after by the Principal. She basically said she messed up, and didn't realize it was a real bullet and and and....I asked her how the fuck she got my number at midnight, from the police. I told them they needed to notify every fucking parent in that room and pulled the lawyer card. They sent a letter that was so far from the truth basically stating it was nothing to be concerned about and they don't think it was a real bullet. The bitch threw it out but my daughter and her teacher picked it up; it was real.

I did contact multiple attorneys but no one would take the case I probably should have called the media but you know.

Sucks that my twins are still there. I can't believe that Principal is still there. I told them she needs to be fired but nope still there.

Ugh.....sorry to derail your conversation.

[redheadbaker]

Jun 1, 2022 10:32:47 GMT -5 aliciabella said:

Jun 1, 2022 10:16:23 GMT -5 expectantsteelerfan said:

This is beyond horrifying.  Can you contact the local news outlets about this?  I am not one to jump into burn it down mode, but this is insanity.

I am not either but I was fucking pissed they didn't even call the police. In my mind and my daughter's if there is a bullet there is a gun.

It was shady as fuck and think the district just covered it up. After I filed the police report, I called the Superintendent, council members, and will you not believe I got a phone call right after by the Principal. She basically said she messed up, and didn't realize it was a real bullet and and and....I asked her how the fuck she got my number at midnight, from the police. I told them they needed to notify every fucking parent in that room and pulled the lawyer card. They sent a letter that was so far from the truth basically stating it was nothing to be concerned about and they don't think it was a real bullet. The bitch threw it out but my daughter and her teacher picked it up; it was real.

I did contact multiple attorneys but no one would take the case I probably should have called the media but you know.

Sucks that my twins are still there. I can't believe that Principal is still there. I told them she needs to be fired but nope still there.

Ugh.....sorry to derail your conversation.

Please don't apologize! No need.

[hermione]

I am sorry if this sounds...I don't know - dumb? insensitive?...But don't schools have a zero tolerance policy on threats of this nature? I would expect this student to be expelled. I'm terribly naive, right?

[VillainV]

Jun 1, 2022 10:49:01 GMT -5 hermione said:

I am sorry if this sounds...I don't know - dumb? insensitive?...But don't schools have a zero tolerance policy on threats of this nature? I would expect this student to be expelled. I'm terribly naive, right?

No. In our district “zero tolerance” is generally only for kids who actually being a weapon (or drugs) to school. These types of policies are almost never equally applied and impact Black and brown children (boys usually) more than white kids.

Sometimes when kids make threats like this, there is something pretty serious going on at home, so a blanket policy sending them back into that environment isn’t always a great idea. It’s usually better to actually investigate what’s going on, and make sure the child has access to the right resources, than just suspend or expel automatically.

We’ve discussed this on this board before, so if you search you’ll find more discussion on the topic besides just my rambling.

[redheadk]

Jun 1, 2022 10:49:01 GMT -5 hermione said:

I am sorry if this sounds...I don't know - dumb? insensitive?...But don't schools have a zero tolerance policy on threats of this nature? I would expect this student to be expelled. I'm terribly naive, right?

No. Multiple elementary schools in my daughter's district dealt with threats of gun violence this year. None were taken very seriously. SHOCKER, it was white boys making the threats. At the school in the neighborhood one over from mine (a 5 minute drive), parents were successful at escalating after being told that it wasn't a serious threat because the child came from a good family. Whatever that means. Turns out that the parent did not cooperate with the threat assessment (refused to answer questions or come to the school, threatened to shoot the principal and district PD officer who came to his door), the parent has basically an arsenal (no shock there, Texas), and is former military with serious PTSD. He was irate that the child was going to have a consequence so withdrew the child from school to "homeschool" then proceeded to camp out on his front porch during school hours and stare at the school playground he can see from the porch so there was police presence between him and the playground for the remainder of this school year.

At my daughter's school, students reported it to teachers but because it is a common threat (!!), they blew it off. Child reported it to her parent, parent asked other parents what to do and that is how the word got out. Parents understandably flipped out, it was clear that a proper threat assessment was not done as the child was a new student and the threat was not reported to admin until after school ended. Child was never removed from class until the following afternoon after a bunch of parents complained. The principal seemed more concerned about how the parents knew he was in class than the threat.

I am completely against zero tolerance policies; however, making a violent threat intended to intimidate and frighten your peers should carry a consequence of some kind. I do not believe that consequence should be a blanket out-of-school suspension or expulsion. 

[hermione]

Jun 1, 2022 11:22:59 GMT -5 redheadk said:

Jun 1, 2022 10:49:01 GMT -5 hermione said:

I am sorry if this sounds...I don't know - dumb? insensitive?...But don't schools have a zero tolerance policy on threats of this nature? I would expect this student to be expelled. I'm terribly naive, right?

No. Multiple elementary schools in my daughter's district dealt with threats of gun violence this year. None were taken very seriously. SHOCKER, it was white boys making the threats. At the school in the neighborhood one over from mine (a 5 minute drive), parents were successful at escalating after being told that it wasn't a serious threat because the child came from a good family. Whatever that means. Turns out that the parent did not cooperate with the threat assessment (refused to answer questions or come to the school, threatened to shoot the principal and district PD officer who came to his door), the parent has basically an arsenal (no shock there, Texas), and is former military with serious PTSD. He was irate that the child was going to have a consequence so withdrew the child from school to "homeschool" then proceeded to camp out on his front porch during school hours and stare at the school playground he can see from the porch so there was police presence between him and the playground for the remainder of this school year.

At my daughter's school, students reported it to teachers but because it is a common threat (!!), they blew it off. Child reported it to her parent, parent asked other parents what to do and that is how the word got out. Parents understandably flipped out, it was clear that a proper threat assessment was not done as the child was a new student and the threat was not reported to admin until after school ended. Child was never removed from class until the following afternoon after a bunch of parents complained. The principal seemed more concerned about how the parents knew he was in class than the threat.

I am completely against zero tolerance policies; however, making a violent threat intended to intimidate and frighten your peers should carry a consequence of some kind. I do not believe that consequence should be a blanket out-of-school suspension or expulsion. 

I am not for the policy either. i just know that is what happened at many schools around me this year. In hindsight, i am sure that's because of Oxford and my proximity to that tragedy.

[redheadk]

Jun 1, 2022 11:25:40 GMT -5 hermione said:

Jun 1, 2022 11:22:59 GMT -5 redheadk said:

No. Multiple elementary schools in my daughter's district dealt with threats of gun violence this year. None were taken very seriously. SHOCKER, it was white boys making the threats. At the school in the neighborhood one over from mine (a 5 minute drive), parents were successful at escalating after being told that it wasn't a serious threat because the child came from a good family. Whatever that means. Turns out that the parent did not cooperate with the threat assessment (refused to answer questions or come to the school, threatened to shoot the principal and district PD officer who came to his door), the parent has basically an arsenal (no shock there, Texas), and is former military with serious PTSD. He was irate that the child was going to have a consequence so withdrew the child from school to "homeschool" then proceeded to camp out on his front porch during school hours and stare at the school playground he can see from the porch so there was police presence between him and the playground for the remainder of this school year.

At my daughter's school, students reported it to teachers but because it is a common threat (!!), they blew it off. Child reported it to her parent, parent asked other parents what to do and that is how the word got out. Parents understandably flipped out, it was clear that a proper threat assessment was not done as the child was a new student and the threat was not reported to admin until after school ended. Child was never removed from class until the following afternoon after a bunch of parents complained. The principal seemed more concerned about how the parents knew he was in class than the threat.

I am completely against zero tolerance policies; however, making a violent threat intended to intimidate and frighten your peers should carry a consequence of some kind. I do not believe that consequence should be a blanket out-of-school suspension or expulsion. 

I am not for the policy either. i just know that is what happened at many schools around me this year. In hindsight, i am sure that's because of Oxford and my proximity to that tragedy.

Yeah, it is shocking to realize that we've gone from zero tolerance policies to basically no consequences and just blowing off threats. I feel like there should be a consequence to discourage idle threats made to intimidate and frighten. As it is now, I do not have confidence that my district truly assesses each threat. I'm sure they take some seriously but others are just blown off (like a child that told my friend's son that he was going to bring a handgun to shoot him because a shotgun wouldn't fit in his backpack... no response from the school other than "oh, he was just being silly, he didn't mean it"). 

[ECB]

Jun 1, 2022 10:49:01 GMT -5 hermione said:

I am sorry if this sounds...I don't know - dumb? insensitive?...But don't schools have a zero tolerance policy on threats of this nature? I would expect this student to be expelled. I'm terribly naive, right?

I don't know if DSs school has a zero tolerance policy, but 2 kids were expelled for a very similar issue - but it was using social media.  The threat was deemed harmless, but they were still expelled. 

[katfco]

A few years ago I had a student threaten 4 times to shoot people at school, including the principal, security and myself. He even went after another student with scissors twice. Eventually he was moved out of my room and into the other 5th grade room because he’d convinced his mom I was racist.

That was the year I decided I was done with the district I’m in. I almost left mid year.

[cmeon]

Private schools can expel kids without blinking (and where do you think those kids end up).

Public schools have to deal with federally mandated punishment ratios and IDEA.

[redheadbaker]

I'm late in posting this update.

The superintendent called me on Thursday (6/2), all "poor me, I've been on the phone for the past 48 hours straight" and saying she involved the police at soon as she found out about the incident (the incident occurred around 10 a.m., the interim principal didn't call the superintendent until after school was over for the day).

Apparently, once the police are involved, the superintendent can't say that the threat isn't credible -- only the police can make that call, so they had to wait for the police to finish their investigation.

What I'm still upset about is that the interim principal dismissed the threat herself, sent the kid back to class and didn't really let anyone know about it until after school was over for the day. I get that it's within their policies to do it, but given the world we live in now, I think the police should always been involved.

Additionally, the school hasn't addressed this incident with the kids in that classroom, that grade, or the school as a whole AT ALL.