What to do with a kid who fears failure, so won't even try

[redheadbaker]

Most recently, this had come up at baseball, but it's also come up during other activities, including non-sports activities.

He asked to play baseball. At practice, he hits the ball, or at least swings at pitches.

In games, he stands there and doesn't swing.

I do not care one bit that he's not good at baseball. I care that he's not at least trying.

He's not afraid of the ball--he doesn't step away from it. We've worked with him on batting. My dad has worked with him. We encourage him before he goes up to bat at games. I've told him REPEATEDLY that I don't care if he misses. I just want him to try.

[VillainV]

You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take (or balls you don’t swing at?)?

We find with C, he doesn’t seem to understand that it takes a LOT of practice to be good at stuff. Even people with natural talent need to practice and improve their skills to be good. While those people make things “look easy”, it’s not. And we tell him that it’s okay and NORMAL to be bad at things when we first try it, but we all improve if we just keep trying.

Having said this, C is 8, so we can kind of reason with him some at this point. When he was 5 or 6, there was no logic, and we generally tried not to push things. If he didn’t want to try something, we just said “okay, let me know if you want to try it later and I’ll help”….sometimes he did, sometimes he didn’t.

Also worth noting, there are TONS of things that as an adult, I will NEVER try (see the thread on ML) and I’d be pretty pissed if people kept trying to convince me to “just try it.” So you do kind of have to pick your battles.

[waverly]

How old is he?

In baseball I think some kids don’t swing because it might be a ball but if they swing it’s a strike.

I have to push my kid a little but not too much. It’s a fine line.

If it’s a failure thing, is he a perfectionist? Anxiety in front of others watching him?

Mine tries some things but others he doesn’t want to. For example I would have liked him to try band but music isn’t his thing. I would have pushed more if he were younger but he’s 11 now so trying to take his opinions into consideration.

[sparty04]

I could have written this post about my 10 year old. It's honestly embarrassing because it's quite obvious he isn't trying. The other 10 year olds on his team are telling him to "just swing" and nope, just stands there and acts all pissed when a strike is called.

I do think deep down my son is scared though. He knows some of the pitchers are really fast and is scared they will hit him. And then he's worried that if he hits it and gets on base, he will get into a situation where he will have to slide, which he is scared of doing. He likes the thought of playing baseball, just not actually doing it I guess.

I don't think we are going to encourage him to play fall ball.

I don't know the answer but I can understand how frustrating it is. He's at the age where I can't really talk any sense into him because he knows everything already.

[sdlaura]

I think this is a common issue. And I agree with VillainV about kids not understanding how much work it takes fo truly get better at something.

My oldest is almost 10 and this is her second year on the all-star softball team. Last year she had only played softball for a few months, tried out for the 8U team on a whim and made it because she was one of the taller kids and there weren’t many experienced players due to the league being closed the prior year for COVID. It was just based on athletic ability. She had fun with her friends but didn’t really put in the effort to get better, which really frustrated DH and me because our family was putting so much time and money into the team, and she wasn’t putting in the time to progress as much as her teammates. But it was hard to know how much to push.

Fast forward to this year and she really worked hard to make the team, since she had to move up to an older age group. She comes home from multiple games in a day and still goes out to practice more. It’s been amazing how much her attitude has changed in a year, and I think it’s really something she had to figure out mostly on her own - that it’s a cycle of the more you practice, the better you get, so the more fun it is, so the more you want to practice more. We did get her a hitting coach during the rec season, because we knew she needed some more work if she wanted to keep moving up with her friends. Something she wanted to do as well, but we set it up, obviously.

My second child plays sports too - he’s 8 - but hasn’t figured out the practice or caring much yet. He still just wants to play with his friends. We’re hoping that watching his sister inspires him to work harder at whatever sport or activity he likes the best.

[redheadbaker]

Jun 13, 2022 21:10:57 GMT -5 waverly said:

How old is he?

He's 10.

[nicolewi]

Jun 13, 2022 20:06:09 GMT -5 VillainV said:

You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take (or balls you don’t swing at?)?

We find with C, he doesn’t seem to understand that it takes a LOT of practice to be good at stuff. Even people with natural talent need to practice and improve their skills to be good. While those people make things “look easy”, it’s not. And we tell him that it’s okay and NORMAL to be bad at things when we first try it, but we all improve if we just keep trying.



I could have written this. I have given this same speech multiple times!

[eponinepontmercy]

redheadbaker, can you watch some Phillies games and point out how often the pros still swing and miss? Hitting a baseball is one of the hardest things to do in sports in general, and even the best players swing and miss a lot. They strike out on national television and still get back up a few innings later to try again.

[hermione]

For us, the answer was finding the activity she loved. She asked to try soccer and hated it and behaved the way you are describing. The same with every activity (most of which she asked to try). Basketball hit. She loves it, she is engaged, and best of all she tries her very best in practices and games. I don't want to give the impression she's a great basketball player - she's most definitely average. But she loves it and works hard which is all we care about.

[goldengirlz]

The term for what you’re trying to build is a “growth mindset.” There are plenty of resources available, but the long and short of it is that you’re helping them understand that just because they’re not good at something now doesn’t mean they’ll never be good at it.

A big piece of it is rewarding effort, not ability — and being consistent even praising something they ARE good at.

hbr.org/2016/01/what-having-a-growth-mindset-actually-means

[redheadbaker]

Jun 13, 2022 21:42:04 GMT -5 sparty04 said:

I could have written this post about my 10 year old. It's honestly embarrassing because it's quite obvious he isn't trying. The other 10 year olds on his team are telling him to "just swing" and nope, just stands there and acts all pissed when a strike is called.

I do think deep down my son is scared though. He knows some of the pitchers are really fast and is scared they will hit him. And then he's worried that if he hits it and gets on base, he will get into a situation where he will have to slide, which he is scared of doing. He likes the thought of playing baseball, just not actually doing it I guess.

I don't think we are going to encourage him to play fall ball.

I don't know the answer but I can understand how frustrating it is. He's at the age where I can't really talk any sense into him because he knows everything already.

We had a chat with him after the game last night, and it turns out, it really was fear. He got hit in the fingers with a pitch some 4 years ago. I just assumed it wasn't because he wasn't stepping away from the ball like he used to. 

He said he wants to be good at sports, but doesn't want to do baseball anymore, and I told him that's absolutely fine. I told him about how I wanted to be good at sports when I was his age because everyone else in my family was. But I did something I *was* good at (dance) and my family was still proud of me, and I would be proud of him for whatever he decided he wanted to try. 

[redheadbaker]

Jun 14, 2022 9:07:04 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

The term for what you’re trying to build is a “growth mindset.” There are plenty of resources available, but the long and short of it is that you’re helping them understand that just because they’re not good at something now doesn’t mean they’ll never be good at it.

A big piece of it is rewarding effort, not ability — and being consistent even praising something they ARE good at.

hbr.org/2016/01/what-having-a-growth-mindset-actually-means

This is SO helpful, thank you! I couldn't figure out what to Google for help. 

[redheadbaker]

Jun 13, 2022 21:10:57 GMT -5 waverly said:

How old is he?

In baseball I think some kids don’t swing because it might be a ball but if they swing it’s a strike.

I have to push my kid a little but not too much. It’s a fine line.

If it’s a failure thing, is he a perfectionist? Anxiety in front of others watching him?

Mine tries some things but others he doesn’t want to. For example I would have liked him to try band but music isn’t his thing. I would have pushed more if he were younger but he’s 11 now so trying to take his opinions into consideration.

I don't know that he's a perfectionist. But so much of school comes very easily to him, that it throws him when he needs to practice and get better at other things (like, he plays the drums -- he wanted to quit after two lessons, because he "didn't think he was good at it.")

[sdlaura]

Speaking of rewards, I’ve noticed a lot of parents around here actually pay their kids for things in sports. Like a PP said, we try to incentivize effort rather than outcome. So in flag football, we encouraged trying to get flags rather than getting touchdowns. When DD was trying to learn to pitch, we praised her when the opponent got a hit off her, since that meant she was throwing a strike/something in the general vicinity of what she was going for. So maybe you can try to encourage/focus on good swings rather than hits? I do think there’s a lot of pressure on kids when they’re up to bat, and even confident kids can kind of freeze - we found that with DD.

[af1212]

This is totally kid-specific but I would incentivize effort.

$1 for every swing, or new book for 3 swings, or video game or whatever your kid is into.

This is how I got my kids to go off of the diving board. They wanted to do it but were afraid to try it the first time. They needed something they wanted badly enough to overcome their fear besides just the satisfaction of the experience.

[wesleycrusher]

I will say- in our baseball league 10 is the hardest age. The 7-9 age range has 8 and 9 year olds pitching- then at age 10, it's 10-12 and you have 12 year olds pitching and it's a huge difference in speed (and accuracy). So if your kid is not into baseball, it's really common to stop at age 10. Hope he finds something else he really likes!

[redheadbaker]

Jun 14, 2022 10:45:34 GMT -5 af1212 said:

This is totally kid-specific but I would incentivize effort.

$1 for every swing, or new book for 3 swings, or video game or whatever your kid is into.

This is how I got my kids to go off of the diving board. They wanted to do it but were afraid to try it the first time. They needed something they wanted badly enough to overcome their fear besides just the satisfaction of the experience.

Yeah, we tried that. Didn't work. Actually, my dad started it -- $10 if he swung the bat; $20 if he put a ball in play. We weren't sure if he'd be motivated by money, so we said we'd let him pick out a new Lego set if he swung. 

[minzy]

I really liked Angela Duckworth’s book on the concept of grit. You can take a quick quiz to get your grit score: angeladuckworth.com/grit-scale/

I sometimes struggle with trying to instill grit in my kids - they often don’t seem to have quite the same drive that I do (and did even as a kid) to do stuff. It’s a matter of trying to really encourage them versus trying to understand that they are not me (imagine that)!

[redheadbaker]

Jun 14, 2022 20:01:26 GMT -5 minzy said:

I really liked Angela Duckworth’s book on the concept of grit. You can take a quick quiz to get your grit score: angeladuckworth.com/grit-scale/

I looked at the link and .... yikes. Anyone with ADHD (which my son has) is never going to test high. 

[wanderingback]

Have you asked him why he doesn’t want to swing?
Maybe baseball just isn’t his thing?

[VillainV]

Jun 14, 2022 21:10:08 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jun 14, 2022 20:01:26 GMT -5 minzy said:

I really liked Angela Duckworth’s book on the concept of grit. You can take a quick quiz to get your grit score: angeladuckworth.com/grit-scale/

I looked at the link and .... yikes. Anyone with ADHD (which my son has) is never going to test high. 

I took the test and thought the same thing about myself. Yet, I feel like I have plenty of grit.

[imimahoney]

Your son sounds just like my son.

He has adhd and anxiety and is a natural at academics (learned how to read on his own, self taught in math, etc) but he has very little interest in trying things that are hard like baseball.

He would also swing in practice but never in a game. For him it was a combination of nerves and the idea that if he got a walk at least he would contribute more than striking out. He isn't wrong but he never even tried to get a hit. Sometimes his brain is too literal for his own good.

He's worked a lot with his therapist on coping skills and going outside of his comfort zone. We made the decision to leave baseball and stick with soccer. The fast pac4 of the game helps him so much more and he's actually pretty decent.

[karinothing]

My kid was like this last year, but I think something changed this year. I am not really sure what it was. I got him a private baseball coach and then his dad started assistant coaching and his head coach was very supportive. His coach had him just start swinging at everything and then one game he hit the ball and seemed to change.

Also baseball is a LOT Of pressure. Everyone is watching you and waiting and it is just a lot.

[ellipses84]

Baseball is such a mental game and my DH likes to tell DS1 it’s a game of failure. We’ve had similar struggles. He’s played for 5 years and the last 4 have been:
1. Overly competitive coach who focused more on the great players than developing all of them at that age which really irritated me and it left some kids in the dust (not just mine).
2. Good coach, played one game before covid lockdown
3. Last year same coach as 1. and had major anxiety at bat, got hit by a ball a couple times which happens in kid pitch and even more to him because he’s a lefty. He’d literally look like he was shaking in his cleats and wouldn’t swing or would back out of the box. He wanted to quit and we asked him to finish the season and told him he didn’t have to play again. It was definitely frustrating to watch and we couldn’t get him over that during the season.

4. DH practiced with him at home a lot and he decided he wanted to play this year (turned 11 near the end of the season but there were younger, better kids on the team). He did amazing at tryouts and got drafted by a great, patient coach who is like the polar opposite of his 1. / 3. coach. DH continued to have him practice at home daily, just getting reps in for the muscle memory and confidence. Near the end he had a few private sessions with a batting coach. He improved a lot and has way more confidence.

DH is a sports fanatic though and DS1 has taken after him, so he truly has a love for the sport outside of playing, they bond over it, he’s into stats and fantasy baseball, etc. Anytime there was a questionable call the little league coaches would ask DS1 what he thought and he was right 99% of the time. We hope he plays next year but if he doesn’t want to we aren’t going to make him. He also loves football and we started him in flag football last year. He is like a different kid compared to baseball. I think it’s because he’s constantly moving and doesn’t have time to overthink what he’s doing or have anxiety about it. He really loves the strategy behind it.

Anyways, I hope my long story helps. I think it’s something you can work through but it’s up to him if he really wants to (and you all want to put in that much effort).